Comments on: Sublimationdoes it work?

Question: Sublimation—does it work?

Busoni — Sun, 10 May 2009 11:17:02 -0800

Is the theory of sublimation—the idea of channeling sexual energy into creative or physical output—still considered valid? Is there evidence that it "works"?

I was reading a biography of Leonardo da Vinci, written fairly recently, as I recall, by a surgeon and science writer (Sherwin Nuland). In it, he states somewhat matter-of-factly the likelihood of Leonardo having channeled his homosexual desires into his art, such that expressions of his libido were nonexistent. This is paraphrasing, but that was the essential message. Now, I'm not an expert in psychology, but I thought such reliance on Freudian terms was odd. But since it was from an actual medical doctor, not a literature professor (which would have been less surprising), I began to wonder if there was something to it.

So, my question: is there evidence that this concept of sublimation is valid? Can a person make better art and be more productive by curtailing sexual activity? And conversely, can a person diminish or eliminate sexual desire by committing himself to his art or profession? I'll take personal anecdotes as well as second-hand ones.

By: rokusan

rokusan — Sun, 10 May 2009 11:28:22 -0800

Anecdote: I'm way more productive when getting laid. YMMV.

By: so_gracefully

so_gracefully — Sun, 10 May 2009 11:50:57 -0800

In general, discussion of sublimation is that it's an unconscious process that happens because of feelings of shame, fear, etc.--not a conscious one to try and subvert something on purpose.

That said, here is the biological reality: in general, the more you have sex, the more the testosterone and other hormones and neurotransmitters are produced that lead to sexual desire. Having less sex, for most people, leads to having less desire for it.

By: war wrath of wraith

war wrath of wraith — Sun, 10 May 2009 12:00:20 -0800

There is of course the anecdote of Balzac having claimed to have lost a "masterpiece" to a nocturnal emission (unable to locate one specific source at moment).

To answer your question more directly: Can a person make better art and be more productive by curtailing sexual activity? I think Balzac definitely believed this, and his output was legendary.

By: VikingSword

VikingSword — Sun, 10 May 2009 12:01:46 -0800

I have never seen reputable studies showing sexual sublimation works - and I wonder how one would conduct such a study and how one would establish controls.

Anecdotally, it seems we have quite a bit of evidence for the contrary - at least for males. Many musicians admitted that they started or joined bands, or learned an instrument (guitar seems a favorite) not out of any particular musical inclination, but rather to impress girls and get laid, and only subsequently did they develop a real interest in music.

Reading through history, some of the same motivation seems to have obtained for other arts.

By: rhiannon

rhiannon — Sun, 10 May 2009 12:06:28 -0800

There's certainly a belief in many religious traditions that denial of sexual impulses is necessary to develop higher spiritual qualities. This was a big theme in the early part of Gandhi's autobiography - he repeatedly castigates himself for becoming distracted by sexual enjoyment with his wife while they were both young. He felt that becoming celibate was necessary for him to undertake the rest of his life's work. Of course there's a lot more to the complex relationships Gandhi had with his family, but his view on the connection between celibacy and holiness was mainstream for his place and time.

By: jquinby

jquinby — Sun, 10 May 2009 12:38:17 -0800

I saw a documentary (Iswear it must have been on PBS, but I can't find it ATM) on the Shaker community, and there was a theory put forth that their woodworking craftsmanship (and general design legacy) was related to their celibate lifestyle.

By: jquinby

jquinby — Sun, 10 May 2009 12:39:07 -0800

...ah, a moment's googling yield the documentary. The Shakers, by Ken Burns.

By: argybarg

argybarg — Sun, 10 May 2009 13:00:14 -0800

To answer your question more directly: Can a person make better art and be more productive by curtailing sexual activity? I think Balzac definitely believed this, and his output was legendary.

This, of course, proves nothing.

By: Ironmouth

Ironmouth — Sun, 10 May 2009 13:17:33 -0800

I thought the whole purpose of art and music was to get laid.

All kidding aside, if anything, just staying celibate does nothing for my creativity. Its wanting and seeking someone and not getting what you want that is the real generator of creativity for me.

There's no one answer to this.

By: aquafortis

aquafortis — Sun, 10 May 2009 13:57:46 -0800

It could be a simple matter of how you choose to spend your time.

By: Maias

Maias — Sun, 10 May 2009 15:45:54 -0800

Like most of Freud's ideas, it was never empirically tested and has fallen out of favor because there's really not much support for it. I believe there may be a few studies on athletes refraining from sex before big games or fights (the idea here was more you are angrier if you can't get laid and take it out on the other team/ guy), but I can't recall what the outcomes were.

Both Freudians and evolutionary psychologists believe that most behavior is in some part motivated by sexual desire (though ev psych would express it as reproductive desire and would also include stuff aimed at survival)-- and some theorize that art and music developed like the peacock's tail, as a way to impress girls.

But the idea that you are better at your art if you don't have sex, it's one of those things that is metaphorically linked to a steam engine model of emotions and drives that need to be channeled and stay constant, so they have to go somewhere.

Real brains don't work like that-- for example, "anger management" stuff that relies on hitting things actually increases rage, rather than "blowing off steam." It would not make any sense reproductively if sexual desire were a constant thing that needed an outlet: and indeed, people's desire waxes and wanes. For example, when you've just had a kid, you're typically not much in the mood. You didn't "sublimate" it into taking care of the kid: your hormone levels are different, not to mention some other issues around childbirth and babies.

By: Bron

Bron — Sun, 10 May 2009 19:04:38 -0800

This is one of the oldest memes in the book, isn't it? A quick search through my archives finds lots of examples of the notion:

The Portable Nietzsche

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The Secret Sex Lives of Famous People

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Cryptonomicon

So there you go: celibacy worked for Nietzche, Van Gogh and Degas (but two of them went bat-shit insane); Balzac sneers at your ideas of celibacy while having another go at one of his mistresses. Randy, our fictional character from Cryptonomicon, abstains to the point of being mad with desire, which enables him to get the girl of his dreams. I guess if it works for you, it works; if it doesn't, you can tell yourself you're keeping your prostate in good shape through regular flushings...

I believe there may be a few studies on athletes refraining from sex before big games or fights (the idea here was more you are angrier if you can't get laid and take it out on the other team/ guy), but I can't recall what the outcomes were.

I saw this hypothesis tested on Mythbusters or one of those type shows, and the athlete actually performed measurably better after sex.

By: rainy

rainy — Sun, 10 May 2009 19:36:04 -0800

In yoga theory the sublimation doesn't magically happen but is achieved by the headstand asana (the energy flows from the root of spinal cord down to the crown of the head, or if you like kundalini yoga perspective better, the kundalini snake unwraps its 3 1/2 coils downward, again to the crown of the head). A mere 30 minute daily headstand should be enough to confirm or disconfirm this theory! Yay!

By: Guy_Inamonkeysuit

Guy_Inamonkeysuit — Mon, 11 May 2009 06:43:26 -0800

As a reasonably accomplished writer, artist and musician (published, sold / freelanced, and regularly performing), I would say that this theory is, you should excuse the expression, a load of codswallop. That said, it probably works differently for different people. Personally, if I am lacking I am unhappy, and if I am unhappy it affects my work. Yes, I can still work, but I don't enjoy it as much, and I am not as relaxed a creator. When I am relaxed I am more productive and my output is of a higher quality.

It was marriage that was killing my creativity... but that is another question entirely.

By: jenfullmoon

jenfullmoon — Mon, 11 May 2009 16:14:42 -0800

I dunno, I have more time to make stuff when I am not having a boyfriend clamoring for um, attention, but I don't necessarily think that one potential energy converts into another like that.

By: koolkat

koolkat — Wed, 13 May 2009 01:56:53 -0800

Sublimation is a proven fact. Lots of things sublime, even things you have interacted with. Caffiene will sublime at room pressure, and carbon dioxide sublimes as well. Sublimation is just turning from a solid directly into a gas.

Oh wait you mean some old brain theory about being celibate and protecting our vital fluids. No thats just silly.

Comments on: Sublimationdoes it work?

Question: Sublimation—does it work?

By: rokusan

By: so_gracefully

By: war wrath of wraith

By: VikingSword

By: rhiannon

By: jquinby

By: jquinby

By: argybarg

By: Ironmouth

By: aquafortis

By: Maias

By: Bron

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Comments on: Sublimationdoes it work?