Can I get into a PhD program?

May 7, 2009 7:24 PM

Will my Chemistry/science grades keep me from getting into a PhD program in a physical science?

I love science I plan to pursue a PhD in a physical science. My only concern is my grades. I have a low B science GPA (including some Cs) and around a 3.5 for my overall GPA. Will these prevent me from getting accepted? My strengths are my laboratory courses and I have really strong recommendation letter writers who all can talk about my research ability. Anyone have any experience with cases like this? Any tips?

posted by anonymous to education (9 comments total)

A proven track record in research is more important than your grades. There are many schools that will probably accept you.

That said, be realistic about your chances of getting into a top school like Harvard. MIT, et al. I'm not saying that you shouldn't try, but have a bunch of reasonable backup schools in mind that are more likely to accept you.
posted by chrisamiller at 7:59 PM on May 7

My guess is that you're probably fine. I'm a pchem grad student at a Large Midwestern University, and I had pretty strong grades in college, I had no trouble getting in. However, I know several people from my college that still got into decent programs with less than stellar grades in a few courses. Your main difficulty at the moment may be the crappy economy and the fact that everyone is trying to get into grad school at the moment.

Some things you have going for you:
1. If you are a domestic student in the US, then that is very desirable for programs where they require a lot of teaching assistants, and it also "looks good" if you have more Americans in your program.
2. Research experience.
3. Good letters.
4. You may be minority or woman in the physical sciences with a half decent brain, if so, you're severely underrepresented.

Some things to consider:
1. A really good subject GRE score will probably get you in anywhere (w/good letters, etc) regardless of your grades.
2. Some programs are starting to waive general GRE scores for domestic students w/a certain GPA (including my program)
3. It is pretty cheap to apply to chemistry programs at least, only like $40-50 a shot when I applied. So not super spendy like med school, and no biggie if you don't get in a few places.
4. There are some really "hidden gems" -- good departments that don't get great ratings, or really stellar faculty in a crappy department. If you really want to work for a professor at a less-than-fantastic school, but they have a stellar track record, don't worry about the department's ranking in US News.

Words of advice:
1. A "C" in a grad school course is as good as flunking. Most grad programs require you to maintain a 3.0 GPA (this is the Grad College that usually requires this). So make sure you are prepared for a program that has rigorous coursework, since maybe you have struggled in the past. My program has pretty tough courses for 1st & 2nd years, whereas programs like UC Berkeley really de-emphasize classroom work and sort of dump you directly into the lab (at least in chem)
2. If you are really interested in a professor's research at a particular university, don't hesitate to contact them. I am in a in a pretty good program, but it is in the Middle of Nowhere, so we have a hard time attracting Americans who would rather live by some mountains. Therefore, my advisor is usually super excited when an enthusiastic American contacts her about doing research with the group. If you have contact with a professor who is excited about you coming there, you're waaaay more likely to get in if your grades put you on the fence.
2.5. I had a lot of specific research groups in mind, and only ended up applying to 4 schools, so YMMV in terms of you knowing what you want to do ahead of time. I did two research summers, so I was pretty excited about a specific area.
3. Once you get in, you're in, and most places will pay for you to come and visit. Take advantage of these visits, and use them to get a feel for the students in the program, and if they are people you could hang out with for the next 5 years. Meet that professor you're excited about, and decide if they are really someone you want to work with.

So I've been in grad school for a while now, and I've been through many visit weekends & schmoozed with many prospectives over the years. Anyways, MeMail me if you have more specific questions, I'd be glad to help.
posted by sararah at 8:08 PM on May 7

I'm not quite clear from your question: what's your major? What field are you planning to apply to grad school in? If your low grades aren't in the field you're applying to do grad work in, they don't matter as much. Also, you sound like you might only be in your first or second year of undergrad, given that you don't mention a specific major; if so, take heart, since course grades in your early years matter less than those in the more advanced courses you'll take.
posted by Johnny Assay at 9:29 PM on May 7

On a 4.0 scale, my undergrad GPA was rather lower than yours, and I'm still headed to one of the top universities in my field for grad school. Your grades will not keep you from grad school, though they might not open as many doors as a straight 4.0 would. Advisors who are familiar with your research abilities can give you the best evaluation of your research skills.

If 1) you have really good research recommendations (in your field, if possible, and positive research experiences and letters of recommendation are honestly the most important things in your application) 2) your grades in your field and your subject GREs are decent (if not extraordinary) and as a bonus 3) you've managed to get a publication or two, you've got a totally reasonable chance. Note that the publication really is a bonus; undergrads with publications are by no means the majority.

If your low grades aren't in the field you intend to pursue a PhD in, stop worrying; they're not apt to cause much of a problem. If your grades in your major are mostly Bs, don't panic, but if you don't have much research experience, get some. Taking a year or two off before grad school to get more experience is entirely OK. (Heck, I had an unsual amount of research experience prior to graduation and I still took a few years off to work and publish and otherwise improve my chances of getting into a program I'd be happy with.) If you've not done much research, it's honestly a very important thing to do: grad school is primarily research, and if you don't enjoy research in your field, completing a doctorate will be very, very difficult. Research is exhausting, tedious, and demoralizing (along with being periodically very awesome.) It really isn't for everyone, and you should make sure you're OK with it before committing to grad school.

Apply for a bunch of schools. Students who have stellar GPAs, GREs, and recommendations will get in most places. Students who're good researchers but who have less impressive numbers will get into many places, but it will be more of a crapshoot. There's no shame to applying to a variety of schools. Contact professors that you're interested in, but be aware that this is not a guarantee; their influence varies a lot by field and subfield. Ask advisors and professors in your field at your university for more specific advice; things vary a lot within the "physical sciences." Most schools will pay for you to visit either before (biochem and some chem) or after (some chem and physics) your admission; you really need to visit. You'll be living somewhere for 5 or 6 years; you need to be sure that the city, university, department, and (depending on subfield) lab you're signing up for are to your liking. I can't emphasize the latter enough. If your field doesn't do rotations, make sure that you think you'll get along with your lab and your advisor, and that you can switch without too much pain and stigma if necessary. Sometimes great students and great advisors just don't work well together, and it is important that you be able to switch if necessary.

Don't worry if your admission rate isn't incredible. I've heard from professors I've worked with at several top schools (including MIT and Harvard, even) that more students are applying even as many departments are cutting funding in anticipation of a few lean years. Make sure, though, that you are getting tuition reimbursement and a decent stipend (along with health insurance, etc.) These things are standard for science PhDs, and if you're not getting offered these things, you should not say yes to that program. You can - and will - do better.

If you're chem, biochem, or on the bio-(suffix) side of chemistry, MeMail me, and I'll be happy to give you more advice.
posted by ubersturm at 11:58 PM on May 7

Find research labs to volunteer in. Impress them. Find "summer workstudy" type stuff to be paid to volunteer with a lab. You don't say where you are; different schools have opportunities provided by different entities.

Check your department's faculty pages - look for people who're studying stuff you're interested in. Write them an email saying that you are interested in _this topic_ and want to _have experience with this particular method_ (that that particular lab uses, and why you think its cpp;), and about the scholarship/grant/whatever a, b, c that you eligible to apply for - if you (the principal investigator, PI) would endorse me to work in your lab for the summer.

If you can learn to be an ok scientist, this experience will both help you to determine whether you have what it takes and whether you will enjoy the journey to get a terminal degree in the sciences.

If you're a research superstar; and the PI that you're volunteering with thinks you are and, maybe know some people and pass the fact on, your grades don't matter. Grad school 'requirements' - if you have a sponsor, requirements or whatnot aren't obstacles.

*** For five years after leaving undergrad; your undergrad scores are something that is considered when you apply for scholarship grants. Grants, everything being equal - go to people with better grades.

In Masters level competitions, the reputation of the supervisor is, reliably, more important than any of the MSc candidate's stats or research project.

---

I had horrible Immunology MSc class grades. I switched to Neuroscience for a PhD track. I got a CIHR CGS scholarship despite one reviewer going on and on and on and on about my shitty MSc grades.

When you go above undergrad, it's about day-to-day competence and whether you've got an interesting idea and most-of-a-brain.
posted by porpoise at 12:05 AM on May 8

Take the GRE and do really well. If you can tolerate it, taking the subject GRE and doing really well will help you a lot. I don't think your grades will prevent you from working on your PhD. That being said, if you do not get into where you are hoping to this time around, there is nothing wrong with taking a year or two and working in an academic research lab. This has multiple benefits actually and may be worth considering even before applying to grad school.

Benefits include:

- it not only gives you a taste for "real" research, but everyone I know that has worked as a tech before starting grad school does better in lab work. You just learn so much as a tech.

- you can make some money and enjoy good health insurance for a while. Say bye-bye to both of those things once the PhD starts!

- you get a break between college and grad school. Worth it.

- you will have NIGHTS and WEEKENDS off, while getting to do science. This is an incredible luxury, trust me.

- Grad schools will understand that this experience has helped mold you into a mature and capable lab worker and will be very interested. Bonus points to you if you can get yourself published.
posted by sickinthehead at 5:28 AM on May 8

getting into a PhD program in a physical science?


You likely will be accepted. But do you really have talent? And be careful what you wish for. Many of not most of my friends who got science PhDs regretted this.

Yoyo, ChemPhD
posted by yoyo_nyc at 5:38 AM on May 8

Note that sickinthehead's comments aren't necessarily accurate for science PhDs. If you "say bye-bye to [earing money and having health insurance] once the PhD starts," you did not choose the right program. Science and engineering doctoral programs generally pay you a stipend (not a huge one, but a living wage, one that's often not too far from research tech salaries), cover your tuition and health insurance, and sometimes provide other benefits.

Also note that the GRE will help you much, much less than research experience. Doing well on it - and the subject exam, which may be required by some schools - won't hurt, certainly, and a good score on the tests will help counteract your grades, just as a terrible score will make schools concerned. However, as long as you've got decent scores, it'll be your lab experience that makes the difference. Graduate programs focus on your research capabilities, not your ETS test-taking capabilities, and most programs' admissions criteria reflect that.
posted by ubersturm at 6:54 AM on May 8

One thing that hasn't been mentioned is that a lot of school's internal funding is somewhat based on grades. Most universities have some fellowships (no labor required) either from the graduate school or from the department that go to people with stellar grades and GREs. Then your advisor may have some RAs to give away, which will go to the folks who didn't get fellowships. Everybody else gets TAs. TAing is a great way to get teaching experience and is not the most miserable experience of your life anyway. But I just wanted to bring up this point.
posted by hydropsyche at 8:50 AM on May 8