Well worth it or just a waste of time?

May 7, 2009 11:36 AM

Will taking the saying "it's better to have loved and lost than to have never loved at all" too seriously lead a person to self-sabotage, specifically when they know the affair is doomed from the start?

Okay, I'm seeing two men. One is showing clear signs of interest, strikes me as completely adorable and is even-keeled personality-wise. I've been dating him for a few weeks, and both his behavior and words suggest that he's interested in a serious relationship. Then there's him. The other guy. He's like no one I've ever met - brilliant, complex, deeply spiritual, artistic, expressive, etc. We've professed mutual intense feelings for each other during the past month over email and during a handful of meetings. There are a few problems however. He just so happens to be moving across the country in a month and is currently too overwhelmed with his work responsibilities to spend much time with me. It's my private opinion that he could feasibly find 20 minutes to a half hour per day, at the very least, to spend with me if he really wanted to, but I recognize that it also makes little sense for us to pursue something that's already set to end.

I don't know that I'm actually in love with him or that I will ever be, but I've also never been sexually involved with someone I was in love with before - the great tragedy of my life, you could say. The thing is, because I was so excited about him and everything that he represented, I already purchased a roundtrip plane ticket (per his request) to the city he'll be moving to. The plan is that I will go stay with him for a week or so, during which time we will presumably spend much time alone together.

This returns me finally to the first guy I mentioned. He's not going anywhere and I suspect that I'm legitimately beginning to like him, but if things progress I'm unsure what to do about my planned rendevous with the other guy who's so inspired me. Furthermore, if I do end up going and then find myself falling in love during my visit, is it okay? Should I allow it to happen? Is there anything good to be said about something so temporary?

posted by afabulousbeing to human relations (27 comments total)

Don't take "it's better to have loved and lost than to have never loved at all" too seriously. Really, it's a nice thought provoking statement. However, is it truth? Maybe. Maybe not.

The first guy you described sounds really great. But it doesn't sound like he's your guy. Second guy - he sounds great, super, all that, but he still doesn't sound like your guy. These two men are not your only choices.

I say go on the trip, have some fun, see where it leads and until then don't worry about it.
posted by Sassyfras at 11:44 AM on May 7

It troubles me that so many people seem to have the idea that a relationship is a failure or is worthless if it does not culminate in a death-do-us-part permanent connection. Have a great time with this deeply spiritual guy, and either you will find a way to make the long distance thing work, or you'll break up. Maybe amicably, maybe horrifically, but you will (if you are doing it right) have learned something about yourself, about relationships, and how the two interact.
posted by Rock Steady at 11:46 AM on May 7 [4 favorites]

Furthermore, if I do end up going and then find myself falling in love during my visit, is it okay?

Okay in what sense?

Okay morally? Of course.

Okay in the sense of will-it-be-short-lived-and-also-torpedo-your-chances-with-even-keeled-guy? How should we know?
posted by jon1270 at 11:46 AM on May 7

It's my private opinion that he could feasibly find 20 minutes to a half hour per day, at the very least, to spend with me if he really wanted to, but I recognize that it also makes little sense for us to pursue something that's already set to end.

Look, you just said it yourself--he could find time to spend with you if he really wanted to. But he's only met you a handful of times. If you need more time than that (and, to me, 20-30 minutes a day seems extreme at the beginning of a relationship--more space than that is probably healthy), and he's not giving it to you, it suggests that he's not really the one for you, right?

Take things one day at a time. Yeah, it might have been a bad idea to buy a plane ticket, since you've just started seeing another guy. But when that time comes, talk to him about it honestly.

Furthermore, if I do end up going and then find myself falling in love during my visit, is it okay? Should I allow it to happen? Is there anything good to be said about something so temporary?

Oh, and I almost guarantee that you won't be falling in love, just limerence. You haven't even known him long enough to really know him as a person, and whatever feelings come up on this trip are undoubtedly going to be intense, but also likely not really based on the reality of what day-to-day living with this guy would be like. You could still fall in love with the friendly, dependable guy, or maybe neither of these guys will really truly strike your fancy long-term. I think the important thing to do is to be honest, with both yourself and others, about what's going on emotionally, and to try to do what will make you happiest--not just what will make you feel the best, in the moment.
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 11:47 AM on May 7 [2 favorites]

What Sassyfras said, with a caveat: never, ever underestimate the aphrodisiac power of knowing the object of your affection is leaving in a short time. Really, that knowledge almost automatically magnifies their good qualities, downplays the bad and makes chemistry so much stronger.
posted by lunasol at 11:49 AM on May 7 [5 favorites]

If you're intensely attracted to a guy who is too busy to make time for you*, you might want to consider that what you're really attracted to is drama in relationships. That used to be me too. Then, tired of never being enough for emotionally immature guys (who liked the convenience/ego boost of non-dating me, but didn't like me enough to want to be serious about me), I decided to try and date someone who was consistent and had time for me. Furthermore, I decided, I deserved that. It took a while to adjust to being in a relationship that wasn't a roller coaster, but let me tell you, that kind of relationship is WAY (way, way, way) better.



*This is a classic "He's just not that into" trait. If he really liked you, he would make time.
posted by Kimberly at 11:51 AM on May 7 [8 favorites]

Frankly, it sounds to me like you don't really want guy #1. (...And also that you probably don't deserve him.)
posted by applemeat at 11:55 AM on May 7 [2 favorites]

I think that saying definitely refers to the fact that it's better to take a risk at least once in your life than never open yourself up at all. Because if you apply it to every single relationship, I can unequivocally say that there is at least one time in my life when it would have been much, much better for me to have lost. Overall, yes, better to have loved. Individually? Sometimes better to have lost. And the kicker: no way to know for sure until it's all over with.

Is this one of those times? No one on the internet can tell you. What do you want? A fling or a relationship? That should be able to direct your behavior with respect to the men in question.
posted by peanut_mcgillicuty at 12:02 PM on May 7 [1 favorite]

Is there anything good to be said about something so temporary?

It is all ephemeral, all of it -- that's what makes it so good.

One of the most startling truths I ever heard about relationships came from what I never otherwise found to be a source of much thought-provoking information, Pop-Up Video. In the midst of one video, among the pop-up balloons on hairstyles and such, came the words: "Percentage of marriages ending in death or divorce: 100."

Sassyfras had it right straight put of the gate. Take the trip, enjoy yourself, and see what happens.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 12:07 PM on May 7

He's like no one I've ever met - brilliant, complex, deeply spiritual, artistic, expressive, etc.

He sounds exciting and full of drama. It would be a whirlwind, you'd have lots of fun, but ultimately your desire to consume and experience him for 20-30 minutes a day(at least), will wear him out and he'll slowly start to pull away and you'll be hearth broken.

So it comes down to this: Can you control yourself around him i.e. not fall in love with him? If so, go for it and have a ball. There may be a bit of heartbreak at the end, but it could be the good kind that leaves you with warm memories for the rest of your life.

The other guy? He sounds great, but you're comparing the two, and he doesn't look as exciting. If Mr. Deep and Complex wasn't around, he'd probably look like a great prize. But at the moment, he just looks like the plain brown bag lunch, not bad, but not great.

Go, have a ball if you can handle it. Otherwise learn to love the brown bag.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 12:13 PM on May 7 [1 favorite]

One is showing clear signs of interest, strikes me as completely adorable and is even-keeled personality-wise...The other guy. He's like no one I've ever met - brilliant, complex, deeply spiritual, artistic, expressive, etc.

This is such a backhanded compliment - I'd be willing to bet that if you spent time with both of them you would eventually find person A much more interesting than you think at the moment and person B much less so.
posted by serak at 12:20 PM on May 7 [2 favorites]

A brief relationship with Guy2 sounds like a lot of fun as long as it stays brief. This is widely regarded as ok in today's moral climate. Have you historically been able to let go of a lover?
posted by a robot made out of meat at 12:37 PM on May 7 [1 favorite]

Karma exists.

You are perfectly allowed morally to do what you want to do if you have made no promises to Guy No. 1.

However, your actions have results in the wider world and Guy No. 1 is perfectly allowed to decide he does not want to date you if he feels upset that you were flying off to see another guy during the courtship phase with him. It would be unrealistic to think otherwise. I'd proceed on the assumption that Guy No. 1 will find out sooner or later, that you were also seeing Guy No. 2 and that you flew off to see him during the same time. You could try to predict Guy No. 1's reaction, but you might be wrong. So he may decide to leave you upon learning that.

There's nothing wrong with either your choice in the matter, or Guy No. 1's reaction to that choice.

Them's the breaks.
posted by Ironmouth at 12:47 PM on May 7 [1 favorite]

if you have the relationship with guy2, your relationship with guy1 may end up sabotaged if he knows he's been discarded for someone else. And intense connections often lead to fantastic volatility, so beware.
posted by iamnotateenagegirl at 12:58 PM on May 7

The second guy hasn't made an effort to spend time with you, and you already bought a plane ticket to go see him? If I was him in this situation, this would set off all sorts of red flags, even if I liked you.

Guy number two is looking ahead to his new life and new city, where he will meet new people and do new things. Trying to perpetuate the chemistry you have with him into a full-fledged dalliance doesn't offer either of you anything useful, and may become a serious hindrance or annoyance to him, whether or not he ever has the guts to tell you so.

Accept this for what it is -- a beautiful, brief, breathless moment in your life in which you and an amazing person regarded and appreciated each other utterly, ephemerally. And then let it go.
posted by hermitosis at 1:01 PM on May 7 [2 favorites]

i essentially utilize "he's just not that into you" as my dating bible. what's funny is that a friend borrowed it and only just returned it today, thus in the last few minutes i've reintroduced myself to its profound wisdom. It's because Guy #2 has been so very adamant about his "genuine" interest in me and also his very real time constraints, that I've overlooked the infrequency of our meetings. But it bothers me. Not too long ago, he came to visit me very drunk and very late at night, which means he somehow found time to go out with his friends but not enough time to make arrangements, pre-inebriation, to see me as well. Anyway, what I really, really want is a relationship and I'm fairly certain I would feel cheated if all I ended up with was a single week of passion. I would like, however, to be the kind of person who can gracefully and maybe even gladly accept the transience of certain relationships, rather than the kind who tortures herself endlessly over what could/should have been.
posted by afabulousbeing at 1:01 PM on May 7

(per his request)

I gave this another look, and this part stands out to me more now. In which case I think it's YOU who should see the red flags. Moving somewhere and getting set up is a stressful, busy time. The idea that he would encourage you to come so soon after he moves and that he'll magically have all this time for you (when you haven't seen evidence of anything of the sort so far) seems bizarrely optimistic and unrealistic. I think this is a disappointment waiting to happen.
posted by hermitosis at 1:05 PM on May 7

yes, it was his idea for me to come visit him, and i've questioned him a number of times about it since and he's reassured me it's what he really wants. i'm aware though that he has some manner of job there, and so it seems unlikely that he'll be completely free. Thanks to all of you for these marvelous responses; since I've been reading them, the sheen of this potential affair is rapidly fading. Thankfully, I have family in the city where I'll be flying, so I have the option of visiting them if I end up changing my mind about this.
posted by afabulousbeing at 1:13 PM on May 7

This stood out to me:

I would like, however, to be the kind of person who can gracefully and maybe even gladly accept the transience of certain relationships, rather than the kind who tortures herself endlessly over what could/should have been.

Be happy first. I spent years of my life torturing myself because I wanted to be the kind of person who does x, y, z. I made myself completely miserable and insecure. Then, a few years ago, everything sort of came to a head and I made a lot of changes and took a month off. I called it "the month of things I already like." I did not read, watch, listen to, or eat anything that I hadn't already loved. I didn't finish a book I wasn't into to be the kind of person who has read that important book. I didn't eat foods I didn't like to be the kind of person who has a sophisticated palate. I just did things that were proven to make me happy. I ended up rediscovering myself.

I'm not suggesting that you're doing anything as horribly wrong as I was. I just want to say that you should think about what actually makes you happy, because that's incredibly hard (if not impossible) to change, and then do that. Don't get entangled with this guy because you wish you were someone who could handle a fling. If you're not that kind of person, that's OK. If stability in a relationship is what makes you happy, pursue that. Your friends, your family, everyone in your life wants you to be happy. The only kind of person that you should want to be is a happy person.
posted by prefpara at 3:06 PM on May 7 [5 favorites]

Allow me to take you into the future, and as a result it may help deal with the present.

As a guy, I spent a great amount of time third- (and even fourth) wheeling a with a group of single girls back in my mid-twenties (I worked in a field with more women than men). I heard similar stories over and over. They either had the "adorable, even keel" boyfriend or had the same interested in them. They also had the guy who they couldn't get out of their head ( for some reason I imagined them to be a Lorenzo Lamas-like character from Renegade who motorcycled into their life to give them all the "bad boy" they wanted.) The latter guy was usually emotionally unavailable, but the drama was addictive. Several of these women went on to marry their vanilla unexciting now-husbands and now complain about how boring they are.

Moral of the story: when you finally get your bad boy phase out of the way, invest your time, emotions, and heart in Mr. Vanilla; don't deride him for not being Lorenzo Lamas.
posted by teg4rvn at 3:19 PM on May 7 [1 favorite]

i essentially utilize "he's just not that into you" as my dating bible. what's funny is that a friend borrowed it and only just returned it today, thus in the last few minutes i've reintroduced myself to its profound wisdom.<>

oh, dear. You do realize this was written by a comedian, not a psychologist or anything like that?

It's because Guy #2 has been so very adamant about his "genuine" interest in me and also his very real time constraints, that I've overlooked the infrequency of our meetings. But it bothers me.

Listen to your gut. Is it really worth spending a week on this guy, when he'll probably be busy most of the time? I'm hoping you'll have rented a car and not be dependent on him for transportation. Bring enough money for taxis to get yourself to your family if necessary - because sadly, I think the bloom will be off the rose quite quickly on this one.

Anyway, what I really, really want is a relationship and I'm fairly certain I would feel cheated if all I ended up with was a single week of passion.

Ask yourself why you're ignoring your own intuition. Ask yourself why you bought that round-trip ticket. Ask yourself why you don't think you're worth more than whatever scraps he can find the time to throw you.
posted by canine epigram at 7:41 PM on May 7

dammit. I bollixed the italics.
posted by canine epigram at 7:42 PM on May 7

Some things you only really learn by doing the stupid painful thing and gaining the wisdom that maybe it wasn't such a good idea. It's hard to rely on others who have gone before you, making the same mistakes, because in your mind your own case is always different.

Good luck.
posted by marble at 7:44 PM on May 7

Anyway, what I really, really want is a relationship and I'm fairly certain I would feel cheated if all I ended up with was a single week of passion. I would like, however, to be the kind of person who can gracefully and maybe even gladly accept the transience of certain relationships, rather than the kind who tortures herself endlessly over what could/should have been.

To me this sounds like "What I really want is a nourishing, well-balanced meal full of nutrients that will give me long-lasting energy. But I hear people saying 'life is short, eat desert first.' So I think I would like to try being one of those people who craves sweets, who gets sugar highs and sugar crashes, who drinks cup after cup of cheap black coffee waiting for her hangover to go away, with a cig hanging off her lip as she croaks lines from Sunday Morning Coming Down...'...And there's nooothin' short of dyin', Half as loooonesome as the sound...' and digs around in the bottom of the drawer for an aspirin."
posted by salvia at 11:18 PM on May 7 [5 favorites]

afabulousbeing, p.s. I want to apologize for adding my unnecessary judgment up-thread. I’m sorry I made that comment.
posted by applemeat at 8:00 AM on May 8

no worries, applemeat. and much thanks again for the generous replies. I can't stop myself from mentioning that my initial impression of guy 2 was of someone extremely fun, entertaining, and spontaneous. and as i've come to know more about him, i see he also possesses a great deal of knowledge about mysticism and experimental music & art. so part of taking this trip is really about going on an adventure with someone who, from what i've gathered, specializes in adventure. it's just as much about me developing my creative & fun side as it as about me looking for love.
posted by afabulousbeing at 10:20 AM on May 8

it's just as much about me developing my creative & fun side as it as about me looking for love.

Hmmmmm . . . I'm always wary of myself when I hear myself saying something like that. I'm usually making an excuse for myself.
posted by Ironmouth at 2:27 PM on May 8