Shelving that doesn't collapse on anyone's head.
May 5, 2009 7:01 AM Subscribe
Please help me work out a plan for my wall-mounted shelf project.
Between the cavernous aisles of Home Depot and the 30,000 web pages on this topic, I'm a little overwhelmed. In order to contend with the increased mobility of baby llama and our decision to stay in the small house we're renting, I need to get some shelves on the walls.
I want to hang a couple of different shelf types in different rooms. Let's say the function is to hold books (even though in some cases it'll be lighter stuff -- I want them to at least support a bunch of books.)
I want to have (in several rooms):
A single long shelf about a foot from the ceiling
Multiple shelf system on brackets (several above each other)
The various questions:
My concerns are: the walls are pretty crumbly, so I have to use the stud finder to find a solid place to drill. When I've done this in the past, despite my using the stud finder, I found that the top screw slowly pulled away from the wall, making everyone uneasy. I did use an anchor, but can't remember what kind. What kind of anchor should I be using, and how do I use it?
What's the best way to deal with the single shelf design? I want to not spend thirty dollars a bracket for some curlicued bit of fanciness if I can get away with something else that's lots cheaper that's tucked away and labeled something else somewhere in the depths of Home Depot where I'd never think to look. Or I wouldn't be able to find because I need some perfect L-shaped thingy for the job because they don't have an L-shaped thingy aisle.
What kind of wood should I use? Should I spring for oak or can I get away with pine?
Can you help me figure out the simplest and safest, most effective, least pain in the ass way to do this? Very specific and Home Depot friendly answers are especially appreciated.
Sorry about the jumble of questions. I'm having a hard time parsing my needs. Because I don't really know what I'm doing.
Between the cavernous aisles of Home Depot and the 30,000 web pages on this topic, I'm a little overwhelmed. In order to contend with the increased mobility of baby llama and our decision to stay in the small house we're renting, I need to get some shelves on the walls.
I want to hang a couple of different shelf types in different rooms. Let's say the function is to hold books (even though in some cases it'll be lighter stuff -- I want them to at least support a bunch of books.)
I want to have (in several rooms):
A single long shelf about a foot from the ceiling
Multiple shelf system on brackets (several above each other)
The various questions:
My concerns are: the walls are pretty crumbly, so I have to use the stud finder to find a solid place to drill. When I've done this in the past, despite my using the stud finder, I found that the top screw slowly pulled away from the wall, making everyone uneasy. I did use an anchor, but can't remember what kind. What kind of anchor should I be using, and how do I use it?
What's the best way to deal with the single shelf design? I want to not spend thirty dollars a bracket for some curlicued bit of fanciness if I can get away with something else that's lots cheaper that's tucked away and labeled something else somewhere in the depths of Home Depot where I'd never think to look. Or I wouldn't be able to find because I need some perfect L-shaped thingy for the job because they don't have an L-shaped thingy aisle.
What kind of wood should I use? Should I spring for oak or can I get away with pine?
Can you help me figure out the simplest and safest, most effective, least pain in the ass way to do this? Very specific and Home Depot friendly answers are especially appreciated.
Sorry about the jumble of questions. I'm having a hard time parsing my needs. Because I don't really know what I'm doing.
Seconding stubby. If the screw is pulling out, it is not in a stud. You don't need to predrill and then hammer an anchor or anything...the stud is the anchor. Make sure that when you find the stud you remember that its a likely a two-by-four and therefore you're trying to place your screw one inch in from both sides. Then screw very carefully to ensure that you're really embedding the screw in the stud. If you have an older home (or even a newer home in some parts of the country), you might be screwing into wood lathe for plaster rather than the stud. FWIW, my dad would never use a stud finder...he would tap the wall with his knuckle until it stopped echoing, and that was where the drywall was nailed to to the stud. I use a stud finder.
I don't know to what extent lack of "fanciness" means a willingness to engage "industrial," but this kit would likely meet your needs...you would just need to buy the wood. I think they'll cut it for you, if you don't have a saw.
posted by jefficator at 7:25 AM on May 5, 2009
I don't know to what extent lack of "fanciness" means a willingness to engage "industrial," but this kit would likely meet your needs...you would just need to buy the wood. I think they'll cut it for you, if you don't have a saw.
posted by jefficator at 7:25 AM on May 5, 2009
One key tip, the stud finder finds the edges of studs. When it beeps/flashes/whatever, look for the other edge and drill between them. I can't believe it took me so long to figure this out.
posted by advicepig at 7:29 AM on May 5, 2009
posted by advicepig at 7:29 AM on May 5, 2009
Can you help me figure out the simplest and safest, most effective, least pain in the ass way to do this?
I'm not a hardware expert, but here's what I did with a few shelves I put in a few months ago that might give you some ideas:
Shelf Type 1: I bought a bunch of these bracket things from IKEA, and some cheap but nice looking wood shelves from a local hardware store. I screwed the brackets into studs and set the shelves on top. They are pretty sturdy, and I have some relatively heavy books on one shelf which hasn't shown any sign of strain.
Shelf Type 2: I bought a few of these shelves from IKEA as well. They have a sturdy mounting plate on the back that effectively makes the mounting invisible. You just mount the bracket on the wall and slide the shelf onto it. They are only rated at being able to hold 11-33 lbs though so you have to be careful about what you put on them.
I'm sure other people can suggest different or better ways of doing it but both of those methods were extremely easy and didn't cost me much money at all.
posted by burnmp3s at 7:30 AM on May 5, 2009
I'm not a hardware expert, but here's what I did with a few shelves I put in a few months ago that might give you some ideas:
Shelf Type 1: I bought a bunch of these bracket things from IKEA, and some cheap but nice looking wood shelves from a local hardware store. I screwed the brackets into studs and set the shelves on top. They are pretty sturdy, and I have some relatively heavy books on one shelf which hasn't shown any sign of strain.
Shelf Type 2: I bought a few of these shelves from IKEA as well. They have a sturdy mounting plate on the back that effectively makes the mounting invisible. You just mount the bracket on the wall and slide the shelf onto it. They are only rated at being able to hold 11-33 lbs though so you have to be careful about what you put on them.
I'm sure other people can suggest different or better ways of doing it but both of those methods were extremely easy and didn't cost me much money at all.
posted by burnmp3s at 7:30 AM on May 5, 2009
Best answer: If the walls are crumbly, I assume they're old plaster. The plaster is probably at ~3/4" thick. You need long screws to get past the plaster and into the stud - at least 2" long. As mentioned above, no anchor is needed.
Hardwood shelves will be more rigid and might allow you to place the L-brackets a little further apart, but for a project like this it's not worth the cost. The cheapest method will be to use low-grade pine and utilitarian brackets.
posted by jon1270 at 7:33 AM on May 5, 2009
Hardwood shelves will be more rigid and might allow you to place the L-brackets a little further apart, but for a project like this it's not worth the cost. The cheapest method will be to use low-grade pine and utilitarian brackets.
posted by jon1270 at 7:33 AM on May 5, 2009
Our local Home Depot actually has a shelving aisle. They have a bunch of L brackets with a range of prices, quality. They also have a bunch of pre-cut shelves.
Concerning anchors, I agree with the others, if you can find a stud and use a long screw, this would be best. However, if you look around at HD, you will find a set of anchors which actually screw into the dry wall (or plaster lathe). These are different from the standard anchors which just push into a hole. I have used the former for a multitude of projects and they are significantly stronger than the expanding plastic anchors...
posted by NoDef at 9:09 AM on May 5, 2009
Concerning anchors, I agree with the others, if you can find a stud and use a long screw, this would be best. However, if you look around at HD, you will find a set of anchors which actually screw into the dry wall (or plaster lathe). These are different from the standard anchors which just push into a hole. I have used the former for a multitude of projects and they are significantly stronger than the expanding plastic anchors...
posted by NoDef at 9:09 AM on May 5, 2009
Best answer: I have not found that stud finders work very well with plaster and lathe walls. Put the very thinnest drill bit you have on a power drill and probe around to find the edges of the studs. The holes will be nearly invisible when you patch them. Use 2'' long screws into the exact centers of the studs when you put up the shelves.
posted by bonobothegreat at 1:13 PM on May 5, 2009
posted by bonobothegreat at 1:13 PM on May 5, 2009
Best answer: When I had a house with plaster-n-lath walls, I found that studfinders didn't work very well. One thing that will make it easier is knowing that studs are normally spaced 16 inches apart on center [and they're 1.5" wide]. Once you find one, you can find the rest. Happily, there will always [OK, nearly always] be a stud right next to a wall switch or outlet. Take the switchplate off, and chances are you can see the stud to one side or the other. Measure 16 inches [to the right] from the left-hand edge of the first stud and you've probably found the left-hand edge of the next. Verify with the drill method.
[stud] <----14.5" ----> [stud]
posted by chazlarson at 1:39 PM on May 5, 2009
[stud] <----14.5" ----> [stud]
posted by chazlarson at 1:39 PM on May 5, 2009
Best answer: I regularly use 3" screws in lath and plaster walls. And, depending on the age of the house and where you live, the studs might be 16" or 18" apart, or a bit more, and perhaps not regularly spaced as regulations weren't there/were tightened up over the years. On the other hand, in a really old house, your stud won't be 1-1/2" wide, it will be the full 2". I've never had a stud find actually find a stud in a lath and plaster wall. Tapping sometimes works, but, with crumbly plaster you might not want go around banging on the walls. How about measuring out from a corner as a start as you know there has to be a stud there?
posted by x46 at 4:50 PM on May 5, 2009
posted by x46 at 4:50 PM on May 5, 2009
> the stud finder finds the edges of studs
My stud finder has a little LED bar graph that peaks at the center of studs. Maybe get a new stud finder--if they are pulling out, you're not hitting stud. (Or maybe you have termites or rotting members, and your house is about to collapse.) As is mentioned above, you don't use anchors in wood studs. 3" "Drywall screws" work wonderfully (drill a small pilot hole). Or use the 3" self-tapping screws, those are good too but I dunno if I'd use them on lath.. probably better to drill a hole and go after it with the "drywall" screws.
An old (and useful) trick if you don't have a stud finder (or if you have a crap stud finder) to really find studs is to bend a coat hanger into an L shape with a curved bend, stick it inside the wall and rotate it until you hit stud. Mark where it hits. Repeat. Obviously, patch the hole when you're done. chazlarson's graph above is pretty good, and seconding what he said about electrical boxes ("new work" boxes) being mounted on studs.
For multiple shelves, I've read good things about Hungarian shelves but they involve some carpentry, and you're trying to keep it simple, so that may not be an option for you.
Depending on your aesthetic sensibilities they have modular systems that work pretty well at the Home Despot and such, as well as single melamine shelves (hey, don't knock particleboard - it works great when it's done right) and associated molded decorative bracketing. Ask a sales associate (if you can find one) where the "shelf aisle" is.
My Home Depot has two shelf aisles - one near the "home organization" section where you can buy the modular wire shelving and smaller shelves, and one near the lumber section which just long finished/unfinished pieces of wood and particleboard, no brackets. The "home org" aisle has boxes and boxes of those goofy-looking 50-cent Ikea L-brackets for cheap, and they work great (I have shelves in my basement mounted using them) and look okay.
posted by ostranenie at 1:40 PM on May 6, 2009
My stud finder has a little LED bar graph that peaks at the center of studs. Maybe get a new stud finder--if they are pulling out, you're not hitting stud. (Or maybe you have termites or rotting members, and your house is about to collapse.) As is mentioned above, you don't use anchors in wood studs. 3" "Drywall screws" work wonderfully (drill a small pilot hole). Or use the 3" self-tapping screws, those are good too but I dunno if I'd use them on lath.. probably better to drill a hole and go after it with the "drywall" screws.
An old (and useful) trick if you don't have a stud finder (or if you have a crap stud finder) to really find studs is to bend a coat hanger into an L shape with a curved bend, stick it inside the wall and rotate it until you hit stud. Mark where it hits. Repeat. Obviously, patch the hole when you're done. chazlarson's graph above is pretty good, and seconding what he said about electrical boxes ("new work" boxes) being mounted on studs.
For multiple shelves, I've read good things about Hungarian shelves but they involve some carpentry, and you're trying to keep it simple, so that may not be an option for you.
Depending on your aesthetic sensibilities they have modular systems that work pretty well at the Home Despot and such, as well as single melamine shelves (hey, don't knock particleboard - it works great when it's done right) and associated molded decorative bracketing. Ask a sales associate (if you can find one) where the "shelf aisle" is.
My Home Depot has two shelf aisles - one near the "home organization" section where you can buy the modular wire shelving and smaller shelves, and one near the lumber section which just long finished/unfinished pieces of wood and particleboard, no brackets. The "home org" aisle has boxes and boxes of those goofy-looking 50-cent Ikea L-brackets for cheap, and they work great (I have shelves in my basement mounted using them) and look okay.
posted by ostranenie at 1:40 PM on May 6, 2009
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posted by stubby phillips at 7:05 AM on May 5, 2009