I suspect neither extreme to be true. This doesn't mean the middle is correct, either.
May 1, 2009 7:58 AM Subscribe
UK politics and society and culture - recommend good books about the Thatcher years. Both left- and right-leaning titles desired.
Hey all,
Just reading a thread on the Blue about Gurkahs in which the following was written:
Artw: Also I'm told that people under 30 do not remember Thatcher and are all rabid tories now.
Helga: 'Tis true, they do not remember Thatcher (I am 30, and I do remember her - just). I went to a Question Time session aimed at UCL students this week with Ed Balls and Tessa Jowells. They both referred to the 'same-old' Tories and Thatcher years, but they never explained why the Tory Years were such a bad thing. It's a big scary boggy-man, but no one's telling the kids why they should be scared.
She's a tremendously polarising figure, and I'm one of those sub-30-ites who never experienced pre-Thatcher Britain. I'd like to read a couple of books about her effect on the nation, ideally one mildly pro-Thatcher and one mildly anti- (if anything describable as 'mildly' has ever been written about her). I'm aware of, and fed up with, the two 'available' opinions on the period and the PM. I'd like to read some broader material.
Chunky state-of-the-nation books would be great. I'm not particularly interested in over-political inner-machinations books. I need to get a broad knowledge before reading secret memos that make no sense without context.
Any help appreciated.
Hey all,
Just reading a thread on the Blue about Gurkahs in which the following was written:
Artw: Also I'm told that people under 30 do not remember Thatcher and are all rabid tories now.
Helga: 'Tis true, they do not remember Thatcher (I am 30, and I do remember her - just). I went to a Question Time session aimed at UCL students this week with Ed Balls and Tessa Jowells. They both referred to the 'same-old' Tories and Thatcher years, but they never explained why the Tory Years were such a bad thing. It's a big scary boggy-man, but no one's telling the kids why they should be scared.
She's a tremendously polarising figure, and I'm one of those sub-30-ites who never experienced pre-Thatcher Britain. I'd like to read a couple of books about her effect on the nation, ideally one mildly pro-Thatcher and one mildly anti- (if anything describable as 'mildly' has ever been written about her). I'm aware of, and fed up with, the two 'available' opinions on the period and the PM. I'd like to read some broader material.
Chunky state-of-the-nation books would be great. I'm not particularly interested in over-political inner-machinations books. I need to get a broad knowledge before reading secret memos that make no sense without context.
Any help appreciated.
Given that it's the anniversary of her coming to power there's been a lot of coverage in the press. There's some good articles on the Guardian's web site.
There's and interesting perspective in Andrew Marr's History of Modern Britain (book and documentary series) - basically that Thatcher's economic 'miracle' was only possible on the back of North Sea oil
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 8:38 AM on May 1, 2009
There's and interesting perspective in Andrew Marr's History of Modern Britain (book and documentary series) - basically that Thatcher's economic 'miracle' was only possible on the back of North Sea oil
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 8:38 AM on May 1, 2009
Seconding Clark's diaries for a look at the politics of Queen Margaret's court, from one who was on the edges of it.
Britain under Thatcher by Anthony Seldon is a good, fairly level account of her decade in power and what impact it had.
John O'Farrell's Things Can Only Get Better is a memoir of his time as a student then unemployed Labour activist during the 1980s, before he got into comedy. It captures the isolation of young left-wing people during the early 1980s particularly well, in addition to explaining why Blair was seen as such a great leap forward in 1997.
I haven't read it, but have heard good things about Geoffrey Fry's The Politics of the Thatcher Revolution. This seems to be exactly the kind of chunky state-of-the nation book you want. There's a review here here.
posted by greycap at 8:51 AM on May 1, 2009
Britain under Thatcher by Anthony Seldon is a good, fairly level account of her decade in power and what impact it had.
John O'Farrell's Things Can Only Get Better is a memoir of his time as a student then unemployed Labour activist during the 1980s, before he got into comedy. It captures the isolation of young left-wing people during the early 1980s particularly well, in addition to explaining why Blair was seen as such a great leap forward in 1997.
I haven't read it, but have heard good things about Geoffrey Fry's The Politics of the Thatcher Revolution. This seems to be exactly the kind of chunky state-of-the nation book you want. There's a review here here.
posted by greycap at 8:51 AM on May 1, 2009
Britain Under Thatcher is certainly one that lurks on my politics-studying friends' shelves, and seems to be a good intro.
Whether it's the area I grew up in (strongly mining) or just being a strange child, but I'm in my 20s and do remember 'Thatcherism' - or rather I remember the area disintegrating round my ears as unemployment soared, I remember the pits closing, I remember her name being a playground insult. I think most of the formative influences that turned me left wing may have happened before I was ten! But I really don't understand people who are older than me not remembering any of this.
posted by Coobeastie at 9:32 AM on May 1, 2009
Whether it's the area I grew up in (strongly mining) or just being a strange child, but I'm in my 20s and do remember 'Thatcherism' - or rather I remember the area disintegrating round my ears as unemployment soared, I remember the pits closing, I remember her name being a playground insult. I think most of the formative influences that turned me left wing may have happened before I was ten! But I really don't understand people who are older than me not remembering any of this.
posted by Coobeastie at 9:32 AM on May 1, 2009
Here are a couple of novels, rather than non-fictional works, on Thatcher's Britain:
1) Jonathan Coe's "What A Carve Up!" is a chunky state-of-the-nation book - but it might be too obviously anti-Thatcherite for your ideal.
2) One of the main characters of Iain Banks's "Complicity" both defends and attacks Thatcherism. A less-chunky, though still state-of-the-nation, story.
Both books are darkly humorous mysteries (the latter a bit more thrillery) which would be fun reads in their own right (IMHO) even if you weren't looking for political commentary.
I'll follow this thread with interest. (Early 30s Brit, so was just a kid when Thatcher was around.)
posted by laumry at 9:50 AM on May 1, 2009
1) Jonathan Coe's "What A Carve Up!" is a chunky state-of-the-nation book - but it might be too obviously anti-Thatcherite for your ideal.
2) One of the main characters of Iain Banks's "Complicity" both defends and attacks Thatcherism. A less-chunky, though still state-of-the-nation, story.
Both books are darkly humorous mysteries (the latter a bit more thrillery) which would be fun reads in their own right (IMHO) even if you weren't looking for political commentary.
I'll follow this thread with interest. (Early 30s Brit, so was just a kid when Thatcher was around.)
posted by laumry at 9:50 AM on May 1, 2009
The comic series Hellblazer was created in part to cast a critical eye on the Conservative government of the late 80s and early 90s.
posted by infinitewindow at 10:19 AM on May 1, 2009
posted by infinitewindow at 10:19 AM on May 1, 2009
I was going to recommend 'Things Can Only Get Better' for a view from the left. From the right, try 'Too Nice to be a Tory.'
From a fictional perspective, the 'Secret Diary of Adrian Mole' is a funny take on growing up poor under Thatcher.
posted by dmt at 11:25 AM on May 1, 2009
From a fictional perspective, the 'Secret Diary of Adrian Mole' is a funny take on growing up poor under Thatcher.
posted by dmt at 11:25 AM on May 1, 2009
I would second What a Carve-Up and Things Can Only Get Better. Will Hutton's The State We're In is a pretty good survey if you can find a copy. Peter Jenkins' Anatomy of Decline is a compilation of journalism from the 1970s and 80s that details the conditions that gave rise to Thatcher and what she did in power.
Alan Moore's V For Vendetta was written as an attack on Thatcherism.
Peter Chippindale and Chris Horrie's wonderful Stick it Up Your Punter! is a history of The Sun newspaper which captures alo of what was bad about the Thatcher yars. It's a wonderful read in its own right, stranger than fiction.
Plus, check out the work of David Peace.
posted by WPW at 12:09 PM on May 1, 2009
Alan Moore's V For Vendetta was written as an attack on Thatcherism.
Peter Chippindale and Chris Horrie's wonderful Stick it Up Your Punter! is a history of The Sun newspaper which captures alo of what was bad about the Thatcher yars. It's a wonderful read in its own right, stranger than fiction.
Plus, check out the work of David Peace.
posted by WPW at 12:09 PM on May 1, 2009
I just read a novel called The Line of Beauty by Alan Hollinghurst. It wan the Man-Booker in 2004. It chronicles the life of a privileged young gay man through the Thatcher years.
posted by msali at 1:44 PM on May 1, 2009
posted by msali at 1:44 PM on May 1, 2009
Thatcher came to power in 1979, 30 years ago. (yowzers, I am that old... Sheesh...)
You're basically asking today's 20somethings to read about something that happened 30 years ago - ie asking a 1980s twentysomething to read about Alec Douglas-Hume and the Suez Crisis.
posted by almostwitty at 2:33 PM on May 2, 2009
You're basically asking today's 20somethings to read about something that happened 30 years ago - ie asking a 1980s twentysomething to read about Alec Douglas-Hume and the Suez Crisis.
posted by almostwitty at 2:33 PM on May 2, 2009
You can't understand Thatcher without the run up. Try this recently published book: When the Lights Went Out: Britain in the Seventies.
Here is a review in todays Observer by Hanif Kureishi and by Ray Hattersley in the Telegraph. As Kureishi says: With the story of the 1970s, as with a rerun of a football match, you know what's coming and it's always Mrs Thatcher..
posted by adamvasco at 9:41 AM on May 3, 2009
Here is a review in todays Observer by Hanif Kureishi and by Ray Hattersley in the Telegraph. As Kureishi says: With the story of the 1970s, as with a rerun of a football match, you know what's coming and it's always Mrs Thatcher..
posted by adamvasco at 9:41 AM on May 3, 2009
I'm going to suggest something a little different: "The Commanding Heights: The Battle for the World Economy."
This was first a book, by Daniel Yergin and Joseph Stanislaw, and in 2002 was made into a documentary on PBS.
The book is basically a look at what you might call "command economies," where government determines how and where resources should be allocated (via agencies of highly trained economists, for example), and the free market, where resource allocation is determined via supply and demand (in other words, by millions of less-educated consumers "voting" with their wallets).
Both the book and the video have good segments on pre- and post-Thatcher England. Even if you don't want to read the book, the documentary is quite good.
- AJ
posted by Alaska Jack at 10:10 PM on May 27, 2009
This was first a book, by Daniel Yergin and Joseph Stanislaw, and in 2002 was made into a documentary on PBS.
The book is basically a look at what you might call "command economies," where government determines how and where resources should be allocated (via agencies of highly trained economists, for example), and the free market, where resource allocation is determined via supply and demand (in other words, by millions of less-educated consumers "voting" with their wallets).
Both the book and the video have good segments on pre- and post-Thatcher England. Even if you don't want to read the book, the documentary is quite good.
- AJ
posted by Alaska Jack at 10:10 PM on May 27, 2009
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posted by essexjan at 8:30 AM on May 1, 2009