Should we stay or should we go?

April 29, 2009 5:29 PM

Where do you draw the line when paying your dues?

I'm keenly aware that an up-and-coming band has to make the rounds for exposure, refinement, humility (or ego building, as is often the case) and experience. My question is, where's the line between paying your dues and just taking abuse?

By way of further explanation, my band is a pretty conventional pop act. We've all got good taste and like more unconventional things, experimental electronic stuff, indie rock and the like, but we like making pop rock. I feel like we're more tailored to certain scenes and locales, but our front man continues to book us at venues where we aren't really received well. Places that cater to punkers and metal heads, dance kids, or people with more cultivated taste. Is this par for the course, or should we be making a more concentrated effort to find scenes where we'll be considered more palatable?

posted by mediocritease to media & arts (11 comments total)

Maybe you should talk about this with the people in your band.
posted by box at 5:42 PM on April 29

Food for thought: There's a difference between "paying your dues" and "marketing yourself to the wrong demographic."
posted by The Deej at 5:43 PM on April 29

Yeah I think you're confused here.

Everyone has to play in front of an audience that doesn't really care for a while, but they should at least be there to see the genre of music you're playing. While it's exciting for a young band to score a gig you are really doing yourselves no favours playing to audiences that are hostile to - or at least disinterested in - what you offer.

Tell your "front man" that you need some gigs where there is a chance you might build a following. Then start "paying dues."
posted by fire&wings at 5:47 PM on April 29

And start booking shows yourself. It's a good skill to learn/have. I am astonished that you're writing to many music fans and you can't describe your band any better than "conventional pop." Is that Britney Spears or Badfinger. I appreciate modesty, but considering your question, some marketing should be a plus in your case.
posted by Dee Xtrovert at 5:50 PM on April 29

Stop worrying. Just keep playing. Better to be zen about it. Have fun. If it's not fun now, it never will be. "Making it" in "the arts" is mostly luck anyway.
posted by ornate insect at 6:27 PM on April 29

If you're a young chef specializing in Italian, you don't keep trying to find work in Asian restaurants.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 6:38 PM on April 29

@The Deej - My thoughts exactly. Our drummer feels the same way, and while our vocalist hears and gives our opinions due consideration, we find ourselves in the same venues. The guy that's booked most of the shows has more experience with live performance than the rest of us which might otherwise lend credibility to his actions... I felt I had to go to mefi for an outside perspective. My intent is to ultimately take more action in booking.

@Dee Xtrovert - I left it at 'conventional pop' for the sake of expediency. I didn't ask the question as a roundabout way to market our band, only for unbiased input, which I appreciate. Lots.

@fire&wings - I agree, my definition of 'paying dues' is incomplete, or completely misinformed, which is the reason for the post, and I thank you for your input. Even if your quoted reference to my use of the word "frontman" seems unjustifiably snide.
posted by mediocritease at 6:56 PM on April 29

our front man continues to book us at venues where we aren't really received well. Places that cater to punkers and metal heads, dance kids, or people with more cultivated taste.

Pardon my candor but this smells like rationalization. People hearing your music don't seem to like it. You then blame them for being the wrong sort of people for your sound, from one end of the spectrum (punk, metal) to the middle (insubstantial kids) to the other end (people with too cultivated tastes). And then you assert it's your manager's fault for not finding you more appreciative people to play in front of.

I never was a big fan of popular music. However I can recognize someone who has musical talent, and respect it, and maybe even listen to a bit of it, even if their style of music isn't really up my alley. So if people don't seem to be connecting with your music, you may need to take a hard look at yourselves first.

If you wish to be a success you will need to turn non-fans from all over the spectrum, into fans. Truly successful musicians appeal to all kinds of people.

YMMV
posted by thermonuclear.jive.turkey at 8:01 PM on April 29

I have opened for jazz and experiental acts, playing in a punk band, and I feel I know what you are speaking of.

Others have already mentioned that paying your dues is not the same thing as being marketed to the wrong crowd, and I agree. Sounds like you are planning on taking a more active role booking gigs, which is excellent. Although you might feel as though you don't know enough about this to do it on the same level as your vocalist, the only way to learn is practice in this case. There is no handbook and what you learn will be specific to your city / area.

The answer to your question depends on a few things, namely: why are you gigging? Is it to build a fan base and get your music out there, or is it to practice playing your material live / working on your act, or is it simply for your own enjoyment? I get the feeling that you want to gig to build a fan base and have people appreciate your music (seeing as you are a pop band), but it sounds like your singer is more focused on 'notches on the belt'. This may or may not be a constructive approach depending on your city / scene. Either that or he is an idiot who doesn't realize metalheads / punks dislike the essence of pop music (sweeping generalization obviously) and you will gain nothing from them by playing to them.

Good luck man!
posted by atmosphere at 8:38 PM on April 29

Any idea why your front man is continuing to book in these locales? Does he know the management at these places, so it's easier than looking elsewhere for new venues that might be more receptive?
posted by alms at 8:58 PM on April 29

Thermonuclear - I think that you're just slightly off base. We have been liked and supported by select members of the audiences in question, but on the whole, we don't really fit in at these particular venues. The problem is not that people altogether don't like our music, it's that these particular audiences don't want to hear it. I think there is a distinct difference, and I apologize if I was unclear. These select audiences tend to favor and frequent a couple of local dive clubs, the clubs in question. It's a niche crowd. The complaints we’ve heard are not “this sucks” so much as “I didn’t come here to listen to this.” Bias is an important factor. (For example: It seems you've inadvertently exposed a little of your own bias by turning the term I used, "dance kids," into a euphemism for people lacking substance, not a point of view I share.) As Atmosphere pointed out, in a more constructive and helpful post, metal heads and punkers can be largely condemning of pop rock, all talent and ability aside. It's not about logic or respect with some people as much as their own particular flavor of elitism. While I commend and share your ability to set aside personal preferences to give "good" musicians (a classification that, outside of sheer technical ability, is largely subjective and arbitrary) their due, and think of it as a mark of good character, I think it's safe to say this isn't often the norm. If someone frequents a club that generally bills less mainstream fare, and said someone prefers and expects consistency in that manner, they're likely to be a little displeased when they hear something that might be given that most heinous description, "radio friendly" - which is exactly what we are. And lots of times said someone will be rather outspoken about it, particularly if alcohol is in the equation. In any case, if we simply blew, I don't think we would be allowed back by management. Although one has to wonder wherein factors the complaints of some of their more loyal clientele.

Atmosphere - You might find this video amusing and even a little cathartic - some friends of mine playing a grunge/noise show at a yacht club. The people in attendance were not happy. But I think it worked. They weren't just painfully out of place, they were challenging people. As for our band, we are simply, as I said before, radio friendly. I don't think any of us are deluding ourselves with visions of big success. We want to play live for the fun of it, absolutely, but we of course want to play to people that appreciate it as well. I think you're right on the money when you say maybe our vocalist is opting for notches on the belt, quantity over quality. Lest I be harangued once more for allegedly asserting that he should bear the brunt of our discontent, and as an answer to Alms' question, lemme say that this is in fact largely circumstantial, and that I am just as much to blame for not being more proactive. The music scene is wanting in my town. The two places that we know to consistently host small independent bands, often including friends of ours, are the two places where we are a little out of our element. They're very easy to book, and people go there expecting live music, so that kind of makes them the default. I’ve been trying to take over more responsibility in this area as of this last week, which is why I posted my question. I understand that not everyone will want to hear it, some people will hate it, and some people just won't pay us any attention at all. That is part of "paying your dues" as is my understanding. You do the small clubs, the cool crowds, until you've started to amass a fan base. I just needed to know where to draw a line in search of exposure.

I think my question has been answered, and I thank everyone sincerely for their time and input.
posted by mediocritease at 7:51 AM on April 30