Packing and Leaving

April 29, 2009 6:09 AM

Say you want to move to Europe for just a few months. What logistically should I be preparing for?

Do I give up my apartment (in case I want to stay longer than a couple of months)? How much money should I have saved? If you're in your 30's is it possible to find work without a work visa? Is it possible to get a work visa without a job beforehand?

Has anyone ever done this and want to share the things they wish they'd thought about before they did it? BTW the place I'm thinking of going is Amsterdam. I like the idea of actually living there, but I think trying it out first is a better idea than just jumping ship on America.

posted by Unred to work & money (16 comments total)

Regarding the visa: where are you from?
posted by devnull at 6:40 AM on April 29

If you're planning on moving to the Netherlands: you won't be able to get a job without a residence permit and you won't be able to get paid without a SOFI-nummer (BSN). Otherwise you will only be able to do cash-in-hand work like cleaning.

Think about what it would be like to try to find work in the US without papers: it's more or less the same in the Netherlands.

Housing in Amsterdam is hellishly expensive. You will need at least a couple of thousand euros to get yourself moved in. I suggest checking out Expatica.com for more info.
posted by different at 7:28 AM on April 29

I'm living in New York (and a US citizen). I'm thinking about looking into getting a dual passport because my grandfather was dutch. How hard is it to get a SOFI-number and residence permit?
posted by Unred at 7:31 AM on April 29

I moved from the States to London for two and a half years, then back. I had a job with an American company with an office in London, and I begged for a transfer. In the UK, you can’t just show up and legally look for work, and you can’t get a generic “work visa” except by being sponsored by a specific company for a specific job. They’re not easy to get- the (UK) company has to successfully make the case that you’re doing a job that cannot be done by any UK citizen. You cannot legally look for work on a tourist visa. If you don’t show up with a job and a work visa, and you can’t support yourself on your savings, your options are probably limited to low-paid under-the-table work (if you can get it).

I don’t know, but I’d be very surprised if things were more lenient in the EU. I would start with the assumption that you will not earn anything while you’re there. Still interested?

- Apartments aren’t so hard to find when you return, are they? Every dollar you spend on your US apartment could go toward supporting yourself in Amsterdam. If you’re serious about this, I’d give up your place, unless it’s really extraordinary.
- If you think that you might extend your stay, I’d recommend that you think hard about selling your stuff, unless you can do store it for free. Odds are not bad that you’ll end up moving back to a different location, and shipping your crap and furniture is probably not economical.
- Your computer will work with European current; all you need is a plug adapter. Other appliances you might want to bring will not. If you plan on bringing other electrical stuff, you’ll probably need a transformer. This is a big, heavy and expensive brick that’s a little hard to come by, so start looking now (I’m sure they have them on Amazon now, but they didn’t at the time when I moved). Do not bring a hairdryer- if you need one, buy it there. It’ll blow out your expensive transformer.
- Shipping your stuff is a hassle. I flew over with two big army surplus duffel bags full of clothes, and shipped the rest of my stuff by boat. I seem to recall that it took about a month. I have no idea if that’s the best way to do things now, so spend some time looking your options now. If you can get by for a couple of months on what you can carry in your luggage, that’s great.
- When I got there, I had a room in a dorm at a college over summer break, and then looked at local newspapers for a more permanent place to rent. I’d imagine that larger commercial places might want to see your papers, but smaller, privately-owned places might not. The dorm was awesome; it was shared with a wonderful group of international students on a summer program. I wish I could have stayed there longer. If you can find a similar arrangement, you might also have a good experience.
- Figure out calling cards, or Skype, or whatever you’ll need to call home, in advance. It can be powerfully lonely.
- I suspect that the time you spend now learning Dutch and Flemish will pay enormous dividends.
posted by Clambone at 7:31 AM on April 29

How hard is it to get a SOFI-number and residence permit?

Like I said, think about what it's like in the US. It's about the same in NL.

Having a Dutch grandparent will only help if your parent was of Dutch nationality when you were born and various other boxes are ticked too. So check that out before you count on it.

And go read Expatica.com.
posted by different at 7:43 AM on April 29

I don’t know, but I’d be very surprised if things were more lenient in the EU.

Not to derail, but for the sake of clarifying for the OP: the UK is part of the EU.

List of EU Member States
posted by different at 7:45 AM on April 29

I'm beginning to feel defeated....what about if I lived there for 2 months? Could I get by on say $6000? And I have a mild working knowledge of Dutch and the idea was to take dutch classes while I was there.
posted by Unred at 7:55 AM on April 29

If you're planning on moving to the Netherlands: you won't be able to get a job without a residence permit and you won't be able to get paid without a SOFI-nummer (BSN).

I believe you could work up to three months without a residence permit; however, you would need a work permit from the CWI, and I'm not sure how you'd get yourself hired for such a short-term contract. Dutch employers are required to consider EU candidates first and must advertise a job for a certain amount of time before they can hire a non-EU person. If you want to stay longer than three months, you definitely need a residence permit.

You can get your residence/work permits through the highly-skilled migrants program, if a) you qualify for a job that pays over a certain annual salary (a bit over €45K I believe) and b) you can find a Dutch employer that is enrolled in the program and wants to hire you and has advertised the position for the required amount of time (they have to prove that they couldn't find an EU person who could do the job so they need you). But I believe the program requires that your initial contract be one year (not totally sure on that). And your residence permit is tied to your contract; if the contract ends and the company doesn't offer you a new one, you have to leave.

Check out the IND residence wizard for more information. I'm an American who moved to the NL through the highly skilled migrants program so that method is what I'm most familiar with. However, I researched just about every possible way to get into the country and if there's an easy one, I haven't found it.

Housing in Amsterdam is hellishly expensive. You will need at least a couple of thousand euros to get yourself moved in.

There are places near Amsterdam where rent is lower, like Almere, which is about 20-30 minutes from Amsterdam Centraal by train. However, if you want to spend a lot of time in Amsterdam (and you probably do), train tickets do add up.

It's also just really hard to find a place in Amsterdam. It's a crowded city. There just aren't that many places available, unless you have tons of money (or tons of luck). Plus you can really get screwed on fees -- some to a real estate agent (makelaar), deposit, first and last months' rent, etc. But all of that stuff depends on the owner or company that you're dealing with. I do know at least two people who found short-term lease places on Craigslist, but it took them a long time. I think it's pretty reasonable to say that you'd have to spend at least €1000 on rent in Amsterdam (of course that could vary a ton).

There are too many variables to determine how much money you'd need, but I can tell you that I spent over $10,000 (although I moved at a time when the exchange rate was like $0.50 to €1. Dammit!). Some things that would've reduced it: not shipping personal items over here, not buying a new computer, not buying other new electronics (remember, western Europe uses a different voltage and frequency), not buying furniture and household items. Some things that would've increased it: having to pay for my own plane ticket over, having to pay various immigration-related fees, having to pay real estate agent fees or a deposit on my apartment (for some reason the real estate company didn't make me pay, and I didn't ask too many questions!).
posted by transporter accident amy at 7:58 AM on April 29

I'm beginning to feel defeated....what about if I lived there for 2 months? Could I get by on say $6000? And I have a mild working knowledge of Dutch and the idea was to take dutch classes while I was there.

You could just take a two-month vacation here and not work. I don't think that would be a problem, as I think Americans can stay up to three months without a residence permit. However, they might want you to register with the alien police. Your main problem is going to be finding a place to stay for that amount of time that's not going to eat up all of your money. The round-trip plane ticket alone is going to run you about $1000, give or take a few hundred (and you don't want to get caught without a return ticket).

A working knowledge of Dutch is handy, but unless you're trying to get a job, it won't matter much. You can definitely live comfortably as a non-Dutch speaker, especially in Amsterdam. I wouldn't spend money on lessons unless you plan to try to stay (although I'm sure you'd have to return to the U.S. first -- I wasn't allowed back in the NL until my visa stuff had cleared, but like I said, I'm most familiar with the way the highly skilled migrant program works).
posted by transporter accident amy at 8:04 AM on April 29

I would give up the apartment (unless you can sublet it), get rid of most of the stuff except for the sentimental and irreplaceable things, store those with the parents (heh) and take off.

Don't bring too much with you. You don't want to be schlepping around bags and bags in case Amsterdam doesn't suit you. Without a work permit, you'll be working under the table in restaurants, bars, ski resorts and you'll make enough to live on.

The operating principle here is "don't be tied down with stuff". You can always get more stuff.
posted by TWinbrook8 at 8:08 AM on April 29

transporter - did you have a job before you started looking at the "highly skilled immigrants program" or did you hope for the best?
posted by Unred at 8:18 AM on April 29

I would look for a cheaper city in Europe if I were you. Berlin? Prague? Somewhere in Croatia? Hell, why not go to Turkey?

Pretty much anywhere, to get a real job you will need a company to argue that they need you. If I were you I would save up money and live somewhere very cheap, or find work you can do from home.

And definitely don't bother learning Flemish before moving to Amsterdam.
posted by creasy boy at 9:14 AM on April 29

If you're only planning to stay a few months, you could look into doing a long term temporary apartment exchange with someone in Amsterdam, which would solve the housing problem (of course, you'd still be out whatever you're paying for rent in NYC, but you'd at least avoid the hassle of navigating finding housing in a foreign country).
posted by carrienation at 9:46 AM on April 29

What kind of skills / work experience do you have? With sought-after skills and/or work experience, you may be able to work around the immigration problems.

Do you know anyone in the States who owns a company? If so, it is possible, if you find a job, to strike a deal with your European "employer" to pay a monthly bill to your friend's company and have your friend pay your salary (still in the States). Your friend should charge a markup on your salary, to cover their time, administrative costs, taxes and unemployment.

Don't feel too discouraged. $6000 is a reasonable sum if you're willing to rough it for a while, and don't mind the possibility that you might have to return to the States broke after 3 or 4 months, if your plans in Europe don't work out.

I'm a US citizen who came to Europe with my backpack and no job prospects in 2000 and am still here. I'm 100% legal now, have the equivalent of an Austrian Green Card, have unlimited access to the Austrian employment market, state health insurance, unemployment benefits if I lose my job - the whole deal. You can search through some of my comments on similar questions to see more details about my experience. Feel free to MeMail me if you have any other specific questions.
posted by syzygy at 11:04 AM on April 29

I've worked in television production for over a decade. I will definitely look into options in that field. Although, getting hired beforehand probably won't happen.
posted by Unred at 1:36 PM on April 29

I would hold onto your apartment for now and sublet it out, if you're allowed to do that. A friend of mine gave up her apartment to go abroad, with the intention of staying for many months or years, and ended up coming back after a month with no place to live and had a really hard time finding a new place. So if there's a way you can keep your claim to the place until you decide if you really want to live in Europe indefinitely, I'd go for that.
posted by mahamandarava at 3:09 PM on April 30