Wrangling the cow-orker

April 14, 2009 11:10 AM

Need tips on how to deal with an (intensely) aggravating employee.

There is a member of my staff at work who is driving me up the wall, and I need some ideas on how to manage it. Myself - late 20s, tech savvy, head of my department with direct authority over a group of 5 other people. She - late 50s, with a severe maternal bent and an unwavering habit of trying to hijack every conversation I have with someone else.

She posesses a modicum of the work experience and problem-solving knowledge that I do, so every time I'm having a conversation with someone from another department, she will interject and try to become the hub of the conversation, half the time by repeating things I've said already, or bringing up random unrelated things just to keep talking. It's gotten to the point where I'll have to stop talking in mid sentence to say "I've got this handled, X", where if this were any other non-work situation, a more feasible response would be "Would you shut the fuck up and go away?" She's a capable enough worker (altho could be better), so it's not a performance issue. I just can't coach one of my own staff just because I don't like them... so what are workable solutions? Any ideas, or tales of how similar situations were handled? I can deliver reprimands and coachings and whatnot, but I'm not quite at "firing authority" level.

posted by FatherDagon to work & money (35 comments total)

Is your office situation set up so that you can have serious conversations in offices? Not even necessarily with the door closed, just so that its harder for her to just amble over and join in? This wouldn't work for casual banter that occurs in the hallways, but it might make your leadership tasks go more efficiently.
posted by CTORourke at 11:18 AM on April 14, 2009

I just can't coach one of my own staff just because I don't like them... so what are workable solutions? Any ideas, or tales of how similar situations were handled? I can deliver reprimands and coachings and whatnot, but I'm not quite at "firing authority" level.

You have to be blunt with people like this about their unacceptable conduct.

I've dealt with employees (directly under me) who act this way, and this behavior usually reflects an amazing lack of insightfulness and self-awareness. Hints usually don't work. For each individual instance, you should be firm with them right then --- don't tolerate it --- by saying something like, "Excuse me, Mary and I were talking" ... or "excuse me, please don't interject like that." I know it is difficult to say these things, but you must be somewhat harsh to get the message across.

And then, at another time, sit them down and say that, while their work contributions are valued and appreciated, this habit of interjecting and dominating conversations is unacceptable and has to stop. Be that blunt about it.
posted by jayder at 11:24 AM on April 14, 2009 [3 favorites]

It's actually a pretty open floor design, unfortunately. The building is a call center, and we're a support department for recordings and the like. The upshot is it's pretty much a cube farm, and I sit with my team. This is great for communicating with the rest of the team, but means proximity to her is unavoidable. I could either a) move myself to an outside periphery position, but that would undercut the cross-communications, or b) move her to a further-out desk, which would be a huge passive-aggressive douche move, and she'd no doubt raise even more of a fuss over that.
posted by FatherDagon at 11:27 AM on April 14, 2009

Do you have monthly/quarterly meetings with the people you supervise? That would be an ideal time to bring up communication issues. Being blunt may be necessary, but there's a line where you don't want to de-motivate her too. Maybe couch it in terms of how much you value her work, but there are a few communication issues you'd like to address.
posted by Kimberly at 11:28 AM on April 14, 2009

Is the behavior disruptive? If it is, then you can coach or give a verbal warning about that. Is she only aggravating your or do others mention this?

It sounds like you might be a team lead with limited "this is how I need you to work" authority, but not "you'd better shape up or your out" authority that her actual manager would have. In that case an informal chat might work:

"You know, when you insert yourself in conversations I'm having with other people, it's distracting and can make it look like we don't talk to each other, especially when you repeat what I've said already. This can make our team look bad. If you hear me or see me talking with someone, and you think I've missed something, could you shoot me an email or let me know later?"

Does she interrupt because she's doing her "capable" work and has time on her hands? Maybe she needs more challenging work to do. Send her to some training or assign something she's not yet qualified for.

On preview: oof. Open floor. Find a room for that chat.

On the a) and b) choices - a) isn't necessarily bad, as you can do more "manager" things. Which communication would be cut off? Are you afraid she'd then dominate the group? b) fuss - does she raise fusses now? Is there a clique?
posted by lysdexic at 11:41 AM on April 14, 2009 [1 favorite]

Offhand, it sounds to me like she's desperate to contribute moreso than she is now. So she interjects to show you how much she knows, to convey the message that she's ambitious and knowledgeable, and not just some aging worker bee counting the seconds to retirement. She may also be unconsciously chafing at being supervised by someone she sees as being young enough to be her 'child'.

Either way, she's clearly not understanding that she's choosing the wrong way to convey her message, by 'helpfully' interrupting you during a conversation.

I'm with lysdexic - can you re-route that energy into something that she'll find challenging?
posted by LN at 11:57 AM on April 14, 2009 [2 favorites]

She - late 50s, with a severe maternal bent and an unwavering habit of trying to hijack every conversation I have with someone else.

I would not take her age or gender or 'maternal bent' (uh, what?) into account, just focus on the behavior and what you would say to anyone you respect and work with, politely but directly, so that they would get the point.

"Jane, can I talk to you? Five minutes ago when I was talking to Fred, you came in and steered the conversation in a different direction than I needed to go. You're welcome to join in on conversations, but let me take the lead on talks I've started with someone."

Also, talk with other managers about designating some part of your office, open-plan or not, as a a virtual conference room where outsiders know not to jump in.
posted by zippy at 12:11 PM on April 14, 2009 [7 favorites]

I get this from certain people at work. After failing with subtle hints, I've now adopted a more direct approach. I will stop the conversation, ask the person I'm speaking with to excuse the interruption, look at the person and ask something like, "Hi (socialretard) is there an urgent matter you need to discuss with me?" or "I'm in the middle of a discussion right now, how about I stop by your desk when I'm available?"

There are people who are seemingly harmless in their intent but threaten productivity and patience. With these people, you have to cut them off at the beginning or they'll intrude on every conversation. I think it's possible to be courteous yet firm with people and I've found this approach very helpful. I still throw the person a bone now and then since they're almost pathologically invested in being involved with everything that happens at work. It keeps the crazy at bay.
posted by loquat at 12:15 PM on April 14, 2009 [4 favorites]

You're a manager. Don't be afraid of managing your employees.

Take her out of earshot -- out of the building if necessary -- and say what you like about her work. And then what you don't like about her habits.

I agree that this may be coming out of a feeling that she isn't doing enough to justify her salary. Reassure her that she is. And that joining your conversations isn't necessary.

Also, have a couple of jobs handy. Every time she comes over to join a chat, give her more work. "Oh, I was just meaning to talk to you! Here's something I need you to do." This will keep her busy, make her more useful, make her feel more useful, and slightly discourage coming over to chat.
posted by musofire at 12:15 PM on April 14, 2009 [1 favorite]

It's best to be blunt (but collegial) and avoid the passive-aggressive avoidance techniques. You have assert yourself.

Be aware that firing all your cannons here for this issue will leave you with little room to encourage to improve her performance.

To put it in another context, here's what I did as a teacher (teachers are basically managers, right?): take notes.

When your colleague or report does it again, take notes about the date, time and length of the exchange, who you were talking to, what about, and how the exchange ended.

After three incidents, talk with your coworker about it (arrange to talk in private so that she will not lose face). As I teacher, I would do these sorts of talks after class, or in the hall).

Use plenty of I statements, and "I need" statements:

- I need to be able to quickly and efficiently resolve problems or work issues with other colleagues.

- I noticed on these three occasions (pull out your list) that you offered to help without being asked. When I said to you "I got it covered" or "we're okay over here" you continued to participate in the discussion.

- What's going on? [gives her a chance to explain and save face]

- While I appreciate the help and support, I NEED to be able to answer questions from other team-members easily - I NEED to be able to move on and get back to work.

- What do you think? [this is an opportunity for her to voice her opinions]

- If I say "I got it covered" can I get you to hold off? [Make sure she says yes, and, later, document this; if she doesn't say yes, find out what it will take... often people just want a chance to vent or speak]

When you finish the conversation, say something nice about her (work-related). Since she has performance issues, it shouldn't be too nice.

There's the tempation to engage her in some innocuous way - divert her energies elsewhere and send people to her about trivial things, in order to boost her self-esteem.

However, she's in the doghouse right now. When she has regained your trust (doubtful it will happen) you can help build up her position.
posted by KokuRyu at 12:26 PM on April 14, 2009 [5 favorites]

Yeah I had an employee in my group that did the same thing. Maybe not as obnoxiously, but he is a very junior employee that is quite enthusiastic, and will talk talk talk during meetings where his clear superiors should be running the show and he should be quiet.

Basically, I am nthing the advice above - sit down and talk about it. It doesn't have to be personal. I just explained to him - hey, I have noticed in a lot of meeting settings that you are contributing quite a lot when its not necessary or helpful. Please recognize that when department heads and program directors are leading meetings, you are there to answer questions regarding (his work area), not drive the conversation. I get that you are enthusiastic and thoughtful about our work, but you have to be respectful of the work culture here.

And I think it helped - granted, he's a great guy, very mature, and has handled it with aplomb. But after that meeting and a couple reminders, he's improved.
posted by RajahKing at 12:45 PM on April 14, 2009

I need (ha!) to disagree with the "I need"-iness that's the vogue in managing/coaching these days.

What KokuRyu outlines is very similar to the 10 steps that transform anger to connection. The difference is that KokuRyu's scenario makes it personal and all about you. The other way makes it about her, too, but in a positive way.

It's not clear to me she's in the doghouse, just that the OP is aggravated.
posted by lysdexic at 12:45 PM on April 14, 2009

a more feasible response would be "Would you shut the fuck up and go away?" ..... I can deliver reprimands

Okay, then do so. You don't need the word "fuck", and you can have a good reason:

"Would you please go back and do your actual work now? Thank you."
posted by rokusan at 12:46 PM on April 14, 2009

Option 1:"I've got this handled, X"
Option 2: "Would you shut the fuck up and go away?"

Loosen up and keep trying out different iterations of the first response and accept that you might not say exactly the right thing but eventually your point will be made. You want to bleed off your frustration so that you're not so worried about bursting out with option 2.
posted by bonobothegreat at 12:48 PM on April 14, 2009

Basically she might feel insecure, like if she doesn't speak up, she'll think everyone will assume she doesn't know what's being discussed. I don't know how exactly to handle the interrupting in these conversations, but do you ever ask her (perhaps outside of them) what she thinks or what she might know about a given issue?

I don't know how long either of you have worked there - if she's newer than you, she might feel she has something to prove to you & other colleagues. If she's been there a while longer, well, maybe she does know more about certain intangibles - office politics, history, problems that have arisen in the past, all that sort of thing - and it'd be useful to hear what she has to tell you about that, and she might feel better being able to give some input.

Of course, plenty of people just don't "get" appropriate interaction and probably never will (for all I know, I don't).. maybe you just have to be determined to let her comments go by without getting aggravated & keep focusing back on what you want to talk about.
posted by citron at 1:05 PM on April 14, 2009

Thanks for the suggestions - I'm going to have to pull a meet with her in private to discuss it in a more even-metered fashion (I was about to pop when the question was written, should have taken a second to do some breathing exercises or some such).

Re: the maternal thing - she's one of those people that wants to act like a mother to everyone younger than her, which ends up being simultaneously over-cloyingly helpful and gratingly condescending... one of those "Den Mother" kind of personality types, which seems to directly tie into her conversation-hijacking patterns of "Oh hi I know about this too/Let me help/Now I'll try to steer the conversation/Now everyone's listening to me, and I'll make decisions!"

Re: cursing in frustration - that was a bit of hyperbole; I'd never do something like that at work (doubly so to someone I work with directly). Sorry, was just incredibly frustrated. (Outside of work, on the other hand...)
posted by FatherDagon at 1:30 PM on April 14, 2009

Is it possible you're sending people some mixed signals about their place in the hierarchy?

Like in the title you wrote 'co-worker', and referred to her as such a few times. The open floor plan, coupled with your age, and what kind of comes across here like an easy-going manner might be creating a situation where your expectations aren't clear. Maybe they aren't clear to you?

She may be picking up on genuine chumminess that you feel with others on the staff, closer to your age, and either trying to compensate for the distance between the two of you, or genuinely trying to act the way that she thinks you expect.

In addition to some of the things mentioned above, maybe take inventory of your tone, body language, the jokes you make, etc., that might give her the idea that it's cool to be informal (and ultimately under-mining) when professional topics are brought up.
posted by A Terrible Llama at 1:39 PM on April 14, 2009 [2 favorites]

I feel that KokoRyu's suggestion may work with students, but if you're counting the times she does something, taking notes on it, and then presenting it to her, it will really seem 1) condescending, as if she's a child and not a fellow adult, and 2) really anal retentive for a manager. A much better approach is to phrase it as, "I've noticed you do x a lot, and it's been disruptive." rather than, "Every time you do this annoying thing, I take out a piece of paper and write it down, describing the specific circumstances of the annoying thing you did."
posted by fructose at 1:43 PM on April 14, 2009

Nthing the straightforward approach. Especially if it's when you're dealing with people from other departments - it undermines you if she's constantly interjecting.

Having said that, I'm a bit like her - working in an open plan office, it's difficult to not hear conversations, and I do often jump in with additional pieces of information or suggestions that haven't been mentioned - I want to help, and hate seeing people make bad decisions because they lack information or haven't thought of something important. In my last job a co-worker raised my behaviour with me quite bluntly (we had a good relationship so it was fine) and I think I've got a lot better - I let a lot more go, but still interrupt when I think I've got something that needs to be said. But I've learnt that I come across better if I respect / support the person who's having the conversation - "sorry, couldn't help overhearing... I've been meaning to mention to FatherDragon that I spoke to X this morning about this exact issue and blah blah blah". And that tends to go down better.

Also, might sound counterintuitive, but you might want to try asking for her opinion more often, as it sounds like she really wants to be helpful and contribute, but her method of doing so is just pissing you right off. Try to harness the good intentions but try and get her to direct them more productively... In the long term, probably better than just shutting her down...

Good luck...
posted by finding.perdita at 1:46 PM on April 14, 2009 [1 favorite]

The difference is that KokuRyu's scenario makes it personal and all about you. The other way makes it about her, too, but in a positive way.

"You" statements tend to be taken very personally and tend to escalate rather than diffuse conflict.
posted by KokuRyu at 1:47 PM on April 14, 2009

Sure, I can see that, if the super is telling you "you are" this way rather than "what happens when "you do" X". "You are" is judgmental, "you do" is pointing out an action. It might still be seen as judgmental, but you can't control for everything.
posted by lysdexic at 1:57 PM on April 14, 2009

I still stick by approaching management as though you were a high school teacher. The best high school teachers don't treat their students like children, they treat them like adults.
posted by KokuRyu at 2:23 PM on April 14, 2009

Look at her eyes, and say "Please don't interrupt me."

Repeat as often as necessary.

-
posted by General Tonic at 2:23 PM on April 14, 2009

I have nothing to add with regards to what to say to get this woman to go away, but I think you might find reading the book "How To Win Friends And Influence People" useful. My relationships with my coworkers have improved a good deal since I started using the techniques in the book.
posted by Solomon at 2:45 PM on April 14, 2009

It sounds like you have the type of workplace that rewards congeniality and collaboration. No surprise that any worker would think that collaboration extended to assisting in conversations, albeit this situation certainly has become overbearing.

I have to say though, that nothing actually sounds malicious or deliberate in the behavior you have described that would warrant implementing some of the tactics advised. Some of he suggested commentary makes me cringe. Being publicly rude to someone that reports to you is not good management. More to the point, she will not necessarily get any point other than that you are rude or just plain mean.

Please take this unruly employee aside and explain specifically what is unacceptable, what is acceptable, and why. There is no need to embarrass or shame anyone. Be exceptionally pleasant when doing so. You are not just correcting an old behavior, but encouraging and teaching a new one. Suggest to her that you have a signal you can use when you need her to give you the floor, a nod or other silent gesture (just between the two of you). This saves you from being rude in public, and her from being shamed.

Having an unhappy or disgruntled employee in a very small department is just uncomfortable for everyone. Handling difficult employees with finesse and treating them with dignity, while also sustaining them as reliable and productive members of a team, is a hallmark of an exceptional manager.
posted by inkyr2 at 3:37 PM on April 14, 2009 [1 favorite]

Is it just a little bit possible that you don't have much respect for this person, and she knows it and is trying desperately to earn it? I can understand posting in the heat of the moment, so I'll assume that your typo in the title of this question was just that, an innocent typo, and not an indication of your level of [dis]respect for a coworker/subordinate/team member or whatever the official hierarchy is.

My suggestion is to make her feel valuable (or you can think of it as giving her a chance to put her money where her mouth is) by sending her to some training, or assigning her a task that requires her to learn something new and really stretch beyond her current limits. The immediate benefit is she will be too busy to join in on conversations where she isn't wanted. Longer-term, she builds her confidence and maybe won't be so needy about proving her worth to you and everyone else.
posted by SuperSquirrel at 3:58 PM on April 14, 2009 [2 favorites]

Oh, please don't "make it about her but in a positive way."

I say this as a good employee. There is nothing more annoying than a manager whose strategy for dealing with bad employees is to "ask her opinion more," "give her more responsibilities," etc. The tail ends up wagging the dog. Don't reward bad behavior. Your job is to stop it - if she's annoying you, I guarantee she is annoying everyone else.
posted by selfmedicating at 4:12 PM on April 14, 2009 [2 favorites]

Just tell keep telling yourself that you're a manager for a reason, and like it or not she must subject herself to your opinion. Use the words "subordinate" and "superior" in conversations with her. I really think you need to exude more authority. She probably knows what she's doing is wrong, but is just rebelling. It's tough to control others. Just keep saying to yourself, "It's not about what's good for me; it's about what's good for the call center."
posted by luckypozzo at 5:01 PM on April 14, 2009 [2 favorites]

Evaluate whether your thinking is clear about her. You sound more angry than is professional. You're probably right about her behaviour, but your level of anger will possibly make it difficult for you to consistently implement any solution.
posted by By The Grace of God at 5:07 PM on April 14, 2009

You're twice her age? I'm with LN and SuperSquirrel; she may be trying to show you that she's up on the technology. I'm 41 and work with tech folks who are between 25 and retirement. I notice a lot of assumptions at both ends of the spectrum about who's got relevant skills and who doesn't. What you see as maternal and interjecting behavior might, to her, be "being part of the team" and reminding you that she's not just old enough to be your mom, but that she's got the skills you need.

Training on something new, particularly that would give her a project that's mostly hers, will help. She may be bored with what she's doing, and she may be hoping you'll actually manage her and her career development. I know I need to hone my chops regularly and learn new stuff in order to feel on top of my game.
posted by catlet at 5:19 PM on April 14, 2009

Try not to react emotionally to her behavior.
Sometimes we just have a psychic clash with people.
She isn't going to change, not at 50!
posted by banglespark at 5:59 PM on April 14, 2009

'Tech savvy' has precisely SFA with getting the best out of a team. Your grandiose emphasis on your own authority indicates that you probably have very little real power, or any appreciation of the difference between the two. Your childish, denigrating characterisations of somebody in your own team demonstrate a lack of maturity. You take this woman's actions as a personal affront with no regard or even understanding about why she behaves this way. You haven't described how it affects anybody's performance at all, and that's all that should matter. You haven't reflected on the fact that maybe you're the one with the problem. You're not interested in understanding and addressing causes, or about the long-term consequences of your actions - you want her 'solved'.

By all means, listen to all these helpful posters who use insecure language like 'undermining your position'. Assert away, give it to her straight, show her who's boss - it won't work, but it will show that you're pretty much firing blanks. You just don't like her, and you're looking to abuse your 'authority' to make a personal dislike into a professional issue. In short, you're a poor manager.
posted by obiwanwasabi at 9:43 PM on April 14, 2009 [6 favorites]

Wow, obiwan, that's a rather astounding misinterpretation of just about every statement in here. "Grandiose emphasis on my own authority"? Where do you even get that? I think I was rather clear about my position, and my distinct LACK of a desire to make this an official capacity action and more of how to manage a social issue that was aggravating. It's childish to say someone acts in an overly maternal fashion and hijacks conversations? It's impossible to have a position of authority undermined?

Seriously, where did all of your comment come from? It seems laden with some hefty emotions that are based on things that flat-out don't exist in this thread.
posted by FatherDagon at 9:03 AM on April 15, 2009

"Grandiose emphasis on my own authority"? Where do you even get that?

"head of a dept with five people" = just the facts.
"head of my department with direct authority over five people" ...
posted by zippy at 11:14 AM on April 15, 2009

Also, "She posesses a modicum of the work experience and problem-solving knowledge that I do ...", said of someone twice your age.
posted by shiny blue object at 1:46 PM on April 15, 2009