What to do about my alcoholic father?

April 10, 2009 11:20 AM

What to do about my alcoholic father?

Alright. Here goes. I very recently had to venture down to Florida to take care of my father who has had a total of 3 or 4 bouts of alcoholism in his life. About a year ago, I had to cut a trip to Colombia short in order to come here and check him into an emergency lock-down detox facility. By the time I got here he had downed 6 - 60s of vodka and 2 - 40s of rum straight from the bottle in like 2.5 weeks. I left him in the care of his enabling girlfriend soon after he was released. As goes the system here, visits to the psychiatrist consisted of, "How many more pills do you want sir?" He was able to stay dry for a few months, but soon turned to wine (what he considered to be the most innocent form of alcohol). I knew nothing of it until very recently. His girlfriend has been completely fuckin' useless as she is afraid to piss him off. Even though I begged her to inform me if he started drinking again, she did not. He is adamant that he'll not go into AA, and because of this, I am left here to babysit 24/7.

What I'd like to know, from people who have had similar experiences, is what I can do to make this whole process easier? He's also gone so far as to ask me not to remove the booze from the house in case guests come over. This is a fairly transparent excuse and there are no bottles in the house that I can find.

The other two times this has come up was during my parents' divorce when I was 13, and when my best friend was killed at my dad's factory when I was 18. Both those times, he claims to have been able to overcome this illness because he felt he had something to live for - his kids. Now that we are all grown up, he sees no reason to care about his life.

He has no hobbies, and due to some unforeseen circumstances, has gone into an early retirement. By that, I mean, he's a workaholic and basically planned to work until the day he died. Yes, his life was turned upside down very suddenly, but he's by no means destitute i.e. money isn't the issue even if his lifestyle won't be as materialistic in the future. I am removing him from the US at the end of the month and taking him (and his girlfriend) home to Toronto with me.

My main question is what I asked above. Thank you in advance.

posted by gman to health & fitness (47 comments total)

Al-Anon? it's for families/friends of alcoholics. Regular Toronto meetings. It's apparently not religious but I don't know anything about it beyond the fact that it exists. Good luck.
posted by GuyZero at 11:30 AM on April 10, 2009

i'm not sure what 'whole process' you want to make easier, but as they say in the dreaded a.a.: there is no easier, softer way. (that refers to an alcoholic looking for a way to stop drinking, but i think it applies here, too.)

you didn't give a hint about how he's accepting your presence, if he's looking for help to quit drinking, if he wants a sober lifestyle, and if his 'removal' to canada is something he'll be cooperating with. if he's aligned with any of these, your job is already easier than you know. if he isn't ... you just might be pissing in the wind.

find an al-anon group you can attend, at least to talk to people who've gone through this already. (you don't have to join up, and you don't have to buy in to anything--those people will be happy to listen & share their experiences with you.) depending on how YOU feel about the __A programs, you might also want to check out an ACOA meeting (adult children of alcoholics). dealing with a drunk will drive you crazy & break your heart. if you don't have to do it alone, you're automatically ahead of the game.

good luck.
posted by msconduct at 11:32 AM on April 10, 2009

Dont babysit him. His girlfriend will make sure, hopefully, the house wont burn down. Don't take them to Toronto. He can get booze just as easy there and it will be just as expensive, difficult and messy (incluing potential international incidents) if you do.

Other than that, what are you looking for? Someone to suggest webcams, or handy magic spells that can allow you to be omniscient in watching him or something?

And for that matter, what "process" do you refer to? I see several stated and implied end points, i.e.; him being better, you feeling better about it, him not drinking, but no process or plan on your end.

There are several processes you could use, including letting him hit rock bottom / etc but you have to think about those middle points - actually determine what it is you want and what good outcomes are. I see you full of love and caring but essentially your ideas have no plan in them. Pick a clear goal and make a plan, and assess whether it's possible (it may not be).

Good luck.
posted by By The Grace of God at 11:32 AM on April 10, 2009

This sucks. I have gone through similar situations with family members, though thankfully not my parents.

You have to have firm boundaries. Set preconditions for your help, and stand by them. If he won't accept your rules, there have to be consequences for his actions, up to and including you not helping him anymore. Painfully, it often comes to that, and people often have to just stop bailing out their addict friends/parents/relatives, allowing otherwise preventable suffering before they'll change their behavior.

If you're going to be living with/near him and his girlfriend, you should look into some support, especially groups like al-anon which help people understand how to help their addict friends without perpetuating their problems, and how to take care of yourself while doing so. Good luck.
posted by bluejayk at 11:33 AM on April 10, 2009 [1 favorite]

i'm not sure what 'whole process' you want to make easier...

Since he refuses to go into AA (and he's a stubborn bastard), i was wondering if there are any tricks or anything natural which can relieve the cravings. I mean, he says he realizes he has a problem and has to stop, but really?!??

you didn't give a hint about how he's accepting your presence, if he's looking for help to quit drinking, if he wants a sober lifestyle, and if his 'removal' to canada is something he'll be cooperating with.

He is over the moon about the fact I am here. I am the only person on this earth he listens to. He has put his life in my hands... and it's a really fuckin' huge burden considering I have a lot of shit on my own plate right now. I had to sell his house (amongst other things) and move him to, well, free health care. Having said that, he's only staying in Toronto for a week, before he heads off to Israel to visit with my relatives and perhaps move back there (also 'free' health care).

Dont babysit him. His girlfriend will make sure, hopefully, the house wont burn down. Don't take them to Toronto. He can get booze just as easy there and it will be just as expensive, difficult and messy (incluing potential international incidents) if you do.

Not a chance. As I stated earlier, she is afraid of him. He could be shooting heroin and she wouldn't say squat. I am moving him to a place where he has family. Florida is also a big reminder to him of what he perceives as his failures. I think/hope he has hit 'rock bottom'. When I arrived on Sunday, he could barely see, and his head has gashes all over it from bailing so many times.
posted by gman at 11:41 AM on April 10, 2009

What I'd like to know, from people who have had similar experiences, is what I can do to make this whole process easier?

What process? Trying to get your father to quit drinking? Trying to get your father to stay sober? Coming to terms with the fact that you can't make your father get better?

Alcoholics stop drinking when they are good and ready, and that's usually when their backs are against the wall and the consequences of continued drinking are so bad that it makes quitting seem palatable to them. Until that happens, you are merely patching holes in a dissolving dam.

I really urge you to figure out just why you are bringing your dad and girlfriend home with you. Constant monitoring will not stop the behavior, in fact, it will drive it in directions that you can't even contemplate without seeing it first. I heartily recommend that you at least check out some literature about Adult Children of Alcoholics, or find a therapist that is familiar with the syndrome. Please be clear on what you hope to accomplish before you turn your life over to the care of an addict who won't accept your help.
posted by The Light Fantastic at 11:53 AM on April 10, 2009 [2 favorites]

I say this as someone whose father died of liver failure due to his own alcohol consumption:

You can't save him, you probably can't even help him

Once you've accepted that, work out from there.

That said, if it will be easier for you to step back if he's in Toronto, where he's got family, and presumably more of a support system, maybe that's one last thing for you to do.
posted by Good Brain at 11:54 AM on April 10, 2009 [1 favorite]

On second though, no, don't even bring him to Toronto. If he wants to come, you can offer some help. Otherwise, he's a grown-ass man, and you are his son, not his father.
posted by Good Brain at 11:56 AM on April 10, 2009

What process? Trying to get your father to quit drinking? Trying to get your father to stay sober? Coming to terms with the fact that you can't make your father get better?

Sorry. Yes, I want to make the process of him quitting (for good) easier on him (and myself).

Alcoholics stop drinking when they are good and ready, and that's usually when their backs are against the wall and the consequences of continued drinking are so bad that it makes quitting seem palatable to them. Until that happens, you are merely patching holes in a dissolving dam.

He has expressed his desire to die on several occasions. His back is against the wall - one of my brothers has basically written him off, his girlfriend has told me she can only stand so much (even if she ain't helping), and he has been giving all his shit away.

I really urge you to figure out just why you are bringing your dad and girlfriend home with you.

For the exact reason Good Brain stated at the bottom of his comment.
posted by gman at 12:01 PM on April 10, 2009

Beyond the above, I don't have much to offer. It was incredibly painful for me to start accepting that there wasn't anything I could do. Either he'll find a way to right himself again, or he won't. If he doesn't, all I can offer is that the pain and guilt will diminish, and its possible to remember what you loved about him, and that he loved you, without being overcome with anger.
posted by Good Brain at 12:02 PM on April 10, 2009

If he wants to come, you can offer some help. Otherwise, he's a grown-ass man, and you are his son, not his father.

He wants to leave Florida and he wants to be around his family (none here).
posted by gman at 12:02 PM on April 10, 2009

Here's something which I really wanna know... he keeps going inside (like right now) to get 'ice water'. If I ask for the glass to taste it, he will give it to me, but it will feel like some sort of mistrust on my part (AND THERE IS). How long can I keep tasting what he pours for himself when I'm not looking?
posted by gman at 12:13 PM on April 10, 2009

Not long enough.
posted by By The Grace of God at 12:14 PM on April 10, 2009 [1 favorite]

What is his issue(s) with AA?
posted by netbros at 12:18 PM on April 10, 2009

What is his issue(s) with AA?

He had an awful time in that facility I put him in last year. He felt being strip searched and made to share a bathroom with like a dozen other people was degrading. I wil say, they did not treat him well (but perhaps they're not supposed to?). Essentially he feels he's above it. If you notice in my original post, he's always been able to overcome his alcohol problems for years at a time. And this has only come up 3 times before. Having said that, I know nothing of AA or what it's about? i.e. do people sleep there?

Staying in Florida is not an option. I sold the man's house! (and it depresses him).
posted by gman at 12:24 PM on April 10, 2009

i was wondering if there are any tricks or anything natural which can relieve the cravings.

not that i know of, and believe me, i tried everything. i know of no easier, softer way of quitting than just quitting.

a.a. isn't the only support group available. rational recovery and smart recovery are also out there & don't rely on the religious aspects. (they also don't preach total abstinence from alcohol but try to help people modify their behavior to either moderate or eliminate (if necessary) consumption. my own opinion is that this is a dangerous philosophy to cling to for someone who is a true alcoholic in that it just gives an official nod to keep drinking, albeit in moderation.

the benefit of a support group, from my rather involved experience, is that it can be much more than an hour a day--offering people an alcohol-free 'safe' place with people who understand exactly what's going on. and he'd also hear plenty of stories about people who could barely see & had gashes all over their head & then they slipped & fell and hit their head & bled to death while they froze to death in the snow (which is what happened to one of my uncles). those are the kinds of stories that help keep me off the sauce.

if that's out, though, then it's out. go to the library & get books on recovery & make sure they include info on people who do NOT make it. bad examples are often more effective than 'good' examples.

keep alcohol out of the house and keep your father away from places that have alcohol. he can't drink what ain't there. this might only be prolonging the period until his next drunk, or it might allow his head to clear enough to get him closer to family who can help keep him occupied with things not related to alcohol. at some point, though, you've got to love him enough to allow him to step off the cliff if that's what he chooses to do.

congrats on your selflessness & your relationship w/your father, but take care of yourself first. especially if you're in this for the long haul. tell him as honestly as possible what his drinking is doing to you & others who love him, let him know you'll help him as much as you're able, but that for the most part, this is his game & his call. and you're not crazy about watching him kill himself. then do the hardest part: let him call the shots.

again, good luck.
posted by msconduct at 12:30 PM on April 10, 2009

he keeps going inside (like right now) to get 'ice water'

if that were me, i really would go in and get a glass of ice water. and hit the bottle of vodka i had stashed while i was at it.
posted by msconduct at 12:33 PM on April 10, 2009

How long can I keep tasting what he pours for himself when I'm not looking?

You can't. Look, it's admirable and understandable to want to try to help your father, but as hard as it is to believe, you are not helping. In fact, by trying to bring him to Toronto, by selling his house to help him, by tasting his drink, you too are enabling him. Maybe not in the same way as his girlfriend, but still enabling.

How? Because you are taking responsibility for him quitting, when really, he is the only one who can take responsibility for that. You're also cleaning up his messes for him which, again, allows him to keep going along as he is.

He refuses to go to AA? So does every alcoholic who doesn't really want to stop. Really. If he really wants to stop, he will go to AA.

Here's the harsh truth about far-gone addicts: the substance of choice starts calling all the shots. Basically, their addiction will drive them to do whatever it takes to keep getting that chemical need met. As long as you keep helping him, you will be enabling his addiction.

So what can you do? Not much, sadly. You can let him know you're there for him when he's serious about stopping. And by serious, I mean, "ready to seek professional help," not "ready to be babysat by his son."
posted by lunasol at 12:35 PM on April 10, 2009 [7 favorites]

What you're talking about re strip searching, etc. has nothing to do with AA but with a treatment centre. AA is a bunch of recovering alcoholics talking about their recovery and helping people who want to get sober - usually one-to-one - to work through the Steps of recovery.

There's no easy way to get sober. If you dad wants to drink himself to death, there's nothing you can do to prevent that. If he wants to get sober, he'll have to decide for himself that he's had enough of drinking. You being there to babysit him will make it easier for him to keep drinking.
posted by essexjan at 12:37 PM on April 10, 2009

I know nothing of AA or what it's about? i.e. do people sleep there?

Don't confuse AA with medical or non-medical detox centres. AA is just a support group you go to for an hour a day or whenever. Non-medical detox they somewhat keep an eye on you but you're on you own and it sounds like your father is beyond doing it safely without ending-up in the emergency room. Medical detox usually involves, well, medication to prevent seizures and other withdrawal size effects, monitoring of blood pressure, and 24hr supervision by an orderly including showering and using the toilet, doesn't sound like your father would put up with that. Rock and a hard place.
posted by hungrysquirrels at 12:42 PM on April 10, 2009

I know nothing of AA or what it's about? i.e. do people sleep there?

Goodness no. You're thinking of a treatment center or rehab facility. AA is a community, or help group. It consists of thousands of individual meetings scattered all across the globe and people with one single-minded purpose... to live life without alcohol. A meeting usually lasts a hour and members share their experiences with alcoholism, their hope for recovery, and their strength to get through each day without having to take a drink.

Membership is simple. The only requirement is a desire to stop drinking. It is suggested that new members find a sponsor, someone among the group who has a lot in common with the newcomer, and who demonstrates through their words and actions an understanding of how to stay sober and happy. Your sponsor will help you learn the tenets of AA, known as the 12 Steps. These steps are a practical program of recovery that has worked for many over the past 75 years.

Most arguments against AA revolve around the perceived religious aspect of the program. Nothing could be further from the truth. There is a powerful spirituality involved, but nothing akin to an organized religion. Personally, as an agnostic myself, I was never pressured by any of the supposed "God stuff" that garners negative stigma.

Gman, try if you can to find out more about the specific reluctance your father has to AA. Understanding that will give you a better perception of what you will be facing with your efforts to help him through this tough time for you both. It is very admirable of you to want to do everything you can for your father.

For a little of my background, please see the following:

What it can be like to be a late stage alcoholic.
Some of the realities of alcohol rehab.
Dealing with depression following recovery.

Please feel free to MeMail me any time gman. Also, my email is in my profile. My sincerest wishes of good will for you and your father.
posted by netbros at 12:44 PM on April 10, 2009 [2 favorites]

In fact, by trying to bring him to Toronto, by selling his house to help him, by tasting his drink, you too are enabling him. Maybe not in the same way as his girlfriend, but still enabling.

How? Because you are taking responsibility for him quitting, when really, he is the only one who can take responsibility for that. You're also cleaning up his messes for him which, again, allows him to keep going along as he is.

VS.

keep alcohol out of the house and keep your father away from places that have alcohol. he can't drink what ain't there. this might only be prolonging the period until his next drunk, or it might allow his head to clear enough to get him closer to family who can help keep him occupied with things not related to alcohol.

This is my dilemma.

Look, I am fairly confident he has been clean for two days now (and this is a feat). He truly realizes alcohol is ruining his life. I feel that by putting a positive spin on all the shit going on around him i.e. using the same cliches he's rammed down my throat forever - 'life's what happens when you're busy making other plans',etc. and telling him how much he's loved, or that his best years (retirement) are ahead of him, etc., he will stop. He respects the shit out of me and seeing/feeling my disappointment has always helped him though his issues.

As for what type of detox he was in last year... full-on - medication to prevent seizures and other withdrawal size effects, monitoring of blood pressure, and 24hr supervision by an orderly including showering and using the toilet...
posted by gman at 12:48 PM on April 10, 2009

Gman, try if you can to find out more about the specific reluctance your father has to AA. Understanding that will give you a better perception of what you will be facing with your efforts to help him through this tough time for you both. It is very admirable of you to want to do everything you can for your father.

His reluctance is the fact that he believes he can do it on his own. The end.
posted by gman at 12:51 PM on April 10, 2009

Something that might provide useful context: I Don't Want to Talk About it. It's about how frequently men are undiagnosed depressives that remain high-functioning due to a coping mechanism, often workaholism. And how when the coping mechanism stops working (like, say, when a workaholic retires), the depression emerges and they have no idea how to deal with it.

I'm sorry that I really don't know what to do in the short term. But I think the long-term will require looking beyond the alcoholism itself.

An option in alcholism treatment you may not be aware of: there's a drug that reliably makes you vomit if you have any alchohol while on it, so it makes for aversion therapy. If you knew your father were taking this, you could safely not taste his drinks -- it would become quickly apparent if the drink were spiked.
posted by Zed at 1:08 PM on April 10, 2009 [2 favorites]

he believes he can do it on his own. The end.

If he doesn't want to accept help, you're not going to be able to help him. You can only give him help that he asks for. And not just in a general "it'd be nice to quit drinking" way, but specifically asks for, as in "Son, I need you to help me by doing X." Until he's ready to admit that his way has failed, you're not going to get him to try another way.

Go to an Al-Anon meeting. Talk with people who have been there. It'll help you to accept the fact that this isn't your fault and that you can't fix it. They'll give you advice for how to avoid getting sucked into his drama and support you when it's hard to resist taking over his life.

Your father may never accept help, and this may kill him. I'm so sorry about that. But taking over his life will not make that any less likely.
posted by decathecting at 1:11 PM on April 10, 2009 [1 favorite]

The thing to keep in mind is that alcohol dependence is a chronic disease, much like diabetes or hypertension. It's hard to keep this in mind, since alcohol dependence involves so many behaviors and choices. Chronic diseases are characterized by periods of relapses or remissions. This does not mean that the person has "failed" if he has had a relapse; relapse is just a feature of the illness. (Not that this fact makes a relapse any easier to deal with or any less dangerous.) One problem with a lot of the detox programs out there is that they treat alcoholism as an acute problem ("emergency detox" sounds like one of these), without really providing the long-term coping skills and support that are necessary for successful maintenance of sobriety.

As everyone has said, and as I'm sure you know, you can't make your dad do anything to help himself; HE has to be the one to decide to help himself, FOR himself. However, there are more types of support for him to help him manage his illness than just AA.

If your dad is willing to see a psychiatrist, perhaps he would be willing to see an addictions specialist? For instance, there are are a couple of medication options for people with alcohol dependence. I am not a doctor, but perhaps you could ask his doctor/psychiatrist/addictions specialist about these.

Specifically, naltrexone is available as a pill or as a once-monthly injection (Vivitrol) (disclaimer: I used to work for the company that designed Vivitrol and was involved with its FDA approval process). For some people, naltrexone reduces craving for alcohol as well as blocks the effects of alcohol if they drink while taking it. Here is a link to the full-text article from one of the main clinical trials of Vivitrol.

Vivitrol is relatively new -- although its active ingredient naltrexone has been in use for 30 years -- and is not cheap. However, the advantage to an injection is that it reduces the chance that someone will forget to take it each day. A disadvantage is that once it's been injected, it's there in your body for about 30 days, regardless of whether you don't want it there anymore (e.g., because naltrexone works to block the opioid receptors in the body, it can interfere with the treatment of pain with opioid medications).

There's also disulfiram (an aversion therapy that makes you sick if you drink while taking it; not a favorite choice of many people, but it is out there -- the one mentioned by Zed above), and acamprosate (Campral).

All of these medications are supposed to be used in conjunction with counseling. AA is not for everyone; there ARE other options out there. Again, an addictions specialist should be able to help you and your dad find alternatives to AA, if he is willing to try them.

On preview: You mention that he believes that he should be able to kick it himself, but perhaps if he understood that alcoholism is a disease, like depression, diabetes, etc, that causes CHANGES TO YOUR BRAIN due to chronic exposure to alcohol, he might reconsider. Again, I reiterate the suggestion to find an addictions specialist for guidance and education about the options.
posted by tentacle at 1:16 PM on April 10, 2009 [3 favorites]

He has expressed his desire to die on several occasions. His back is against the wall - one of my brothers has basically written him off, his girlfriend has told me she can only stand so much (even if she ain't helping), and he has been giving all his shit away.

And yet, it sounds like it's you who's deciding that his back is against the wall. By having you there to save him - pack up his stuff, sell his house for him, take him home with you and babysit him to the extent that you are testing his ice water is not rock bottom. He's in heaven right now! He has you to lean on, and you to blame when things don't work out. If the guy wants to drink - he will drink, and there is not one single thing you can do about it.

Every single person I know with an alcoholic in the family has tried what you are trying now. If we could save you from the absolute cluster-fuck that this is going to become, we would, but I don't think it's something that you can learn from other people.

You can't make your father do something that he won't do on his own. Your presence isn't going to save him, because he doesn't want to be saved. He wants you around, and he will play nice as long as it takes to keep you around. Once you've taken responsibility for him, and can't get rid of him, you will see his true colors. He's loving the attention, but he loves booze more, and that's a guarantee.
posted by The Light Fantastic at 1:21 PM on April 10, 2009 [2 favorites]

To learn about AA, why not attend a meeting. Some are "closed" (that is, only alcoholics) and some are "open" (you can attend those). Go alone, or go with him. I'm pretty sure they have a meeting in whatever town you are in, today.

What happens in the meetings (in general) are not secret. Nobody is strip-searched or abused, or whatever. It's a support group. People talk about their problem.

Al-Anon is just another support group, for people like you. Here's a nugget of truth you'll get from that group: You did not cause the alcoholism, you can't cure it, and you can't control it.

Read that one again and again, because there's a lot of truth to it.
posted by Houstonian at 1:23 PM on April 10, 2009 [2 favorites]

If he really wants to stop, he will go to AA.
I take umbrage with this statement. Statistically, AA has about the same success rate as cold turkey, or any other method. Someone who is self medicating for depression, once the depression is treated, may no longer crave the alcohol. AA suggests that you are powerless over alcohol, and some greater force needs to fix this. Some people can, through willpower, quit easily enough. Cigarettes are probably more addictive than alcohol, and people quit those cold turkey all the time.

So, if he really wants to stop, he will stop. His method might be AA, Church, talking to friends, the help of family, cold turkey, etc. What is really salient is that he makes that decision, for himself! Once he has faced the problem, honestly and earnestly, he can chip away at it by whatever method seems most palatable to him. Any one of them will work if your heart is in it. Different ones work for different people, no one way is superior.

I agree with everyone else, sipping his drinks is a fools game, he needs to live the rest of his life under his own control, not yours. I would recommend you read books on codependency and its role in addiction. If you like 12 step stuff, alanon or ACA is good stuff, if you don't like those routes, a therapist and a few good books can do wonders. Sipping the drinks is a sickness on your part that needs to be addressed. (I hope that wording wasn't too harsh.)

Good luck!
posted by jester69 at 1:38 PM on April 10, 2009 [1 favorite]

Statistically, AA has about the same success rate as cold turkey, or any other method.

Does anyone else know if this is the case? It's very important.
posted by gman at 1:43 PM on April 10, 2009

Statistically, AA has about the same success rate as cold turkey, or any other method.

Does anyone else know if this is the case? It's very important.
posted by gman

No one knows. AA doesn't keep membership lists or track how people are doing. The people who AA is working for may tend to think it has a phenomenal success because it worked for them and they're pretty friggin' happy about and anxious to share about the program that they believed saved their lives.

There have been some studies done that toss some numbers out there, but as I said above, it is very difficult to track AA members.
posted by marxchivist at 1:50 PM on April 10, 2009 [2 favorites]

You can't make him get sober unless you have him committed, and then he'll drink again when he gets out.

Repeated for emphasis You can't make him get sober.

You can offer him a better psychologist, a different treatment center, and different flavors of recovery support groups. Honestly, it sounds like he is very successfully manipulating you. What helped with my alcoholic mother: developing really, really good boundaries, accepting that her alcoholism might cause very bad things to happen to her and possibly others, not accepting responsibility for her illness or recovery, loving her as she was.

Mom stopped drinking regularly when she became too ill to get alcohol, and lived with my sister who would not make it available. She still occasionally got caregivers to buy it for her, and even drink with her, which caused problems. It's a powerful addiction.
posted by theora55 at 1:54 PM on April 10, 2009

Agreed, its very hard to track AA members. From what I've read, cold turkey has a 5% long term success rate. AA claims a 5% long term success rate. Other studies put the AA success rate at 3%. So, if any of that is to be believed, aa is the same or worse compared to cold turkey. Even if the numbers are off, I think its fair to say AA probably doesn't have a landslide win.

The thing that might upset you the most is just how small those numbers are, but remember, when someone relapses they start over, so a person could have 4 years of sobriety, 6 months of drunk, rinse, repeat, for the rest of their lives. An improvement over constant drinking to be sure. Thing to remember is anyone can be in the 5%, its possible to stay sober, so your dad could do it, he just needs to want to.

a link
posted by jester69 at 1:55 PM on April 10, 2009 [2 favorites]

Statistically, AA has about the same success rate as cold turkey, or any other method.

Does anyone else know if this is the case? It's very important.

This is an article I just googled-up that described the difficulty of figuring out this question. I will say that I know 2 people it's worked for that were as bad as your dad. However, by the time they tried AA, they'd tried everything else, (and had lost everyone and everything else.)

I strongly recommend you check out Al-anon. If you hate the first meeting, try another- they're all different.

Good luck in all this, gman. I agree with The Light Fantastic's posts, but everyone has to try- we all have.
posted by small_ruminant at 2:01 PM on April 10, 2009

You know, AA is not opposite of cold turkey. You quit cold turkey, and go to AA to help you through it.

AA gives this information:
Sober more than 10 years = 36%
Sober between 5-10 years = 14%
Sober between 1–5 years = 24%
Sober less than 1 year = 26%
Average sobriety of members is more than eight years.

What you are looking for, though, I think is recidivism rates. Unfortunately (?) many people try many approaches, all at once, trying to get the same elusive magic pill that you are looking for -- the thing that will make quitting easy.

If he's that dedicated to not going to AA, then there's no amount of data that will convince him anyway. My guess? There's not many alcoholics -- even those who attend 2 meetings a day, every day, for the past 30 years -- who wake up in the morning thinking, "Woo Hoo! I get to go to a meeting! Yes! It's more fun than an amusement park! It's better than sex!" They don't go because they like it. They go because it works for them.

Maybe some people don't like AA because of the "higher power" statement. But I bet some people (maybe your dad) don't like the idea of AA because it's pretty scary to walk into that room.

Does he know that you can go with him? Does he know that he doesn't have to say anything at all? Does he know that he doesn't even have to be committed not drinking -- only that he knows he has a problem?
posted by Houstonian at 2:03 PM on April 10, 2009

My dad pissed and moaned about how much he hated AA and how bad their rates of recovery were and how much he disagreed with their approach for a couple years as he continued down his road of alcoholism. He made excuse after excuse for why various treatments didn't work and checked himself out of rehab 2-3 times at least. And then he had one last chance, based on the fact that his sister got him into another facility and paid for it and told him that was the end. He's been clean for about two years now and still goes every day to AA. He still doesn't buy in to every last bit of their approach, but it worked and he knows it.
posted by otherwordlyglow at 2:12 PM on April 10, 2009

As an adult child of an alcoholic myself I can't help but echo what many members have already said:

There is nothing YOU can do to make him stop.

Read that again and come to terms with it. I understand the urge to want to do everything you can to make things "easier" for him - he is your father after all. I understand that urge all too well. The problem is that by doing all you can to help him, you are actually enabling his drinking. It sounds counter-intuitive, but as long as he has a shoulder to lean on he will never have to deal with the consequences of his actions. This is his battle to fight, don't let him recruit you into fighting it for him.

Also, what you think is rock bottom, isn't. True rock bottom is a worse scenario that you might ever feel comfortable imagining your father in...and you might need to stand by and let him get there in order for him to truly get better. It is also very, very likely that he will never stop drinking.

I have walked your road, and I have been where you are. I would suggest putting this energy into caring for yourself and examining how your life may have been affected by this, if at all. Do attend an Alanon meeting (although the religious aspect can be offputting) and meet people in your situation. If, after comparing your situation and coping mechanisms to others who have been in your shoes, you still feel that there is something you can do to make it easier to quit - by all means try. But I would bet that what you learn will change the way you think.

Finally, letting him fight this battle himself says nothing about how much you care about him. Its just the way it is. Best of luck.
posted by jnnla at 2:31 PM on April 10, 2009

Just for the record, I have personally known many happy well adjusted people that gave up problem drinking or drug use both with AA and without. My only point was that AA isn't the only road to sobriety. Anyone complaining about AA because they want to drink would come up with just as many excuses why right now is not the time for cold turkey.

Why do I bring this up? If someone really dislikes AA they aren't doomed, they can quit drinking any way they like, they just need to do it! If AA works for them, they should go for it. If it doesn't, they don't have an excuse to give up. That's my only point.

Its really pretty good ammunition if someone says they don't like AA, tell them fine, we can do it another way... Might take the wind out of the sails a bit.
posted by jester69 at 2:35 PM on April 10, 2009

fwiw, the SF Bay Area Al-anon meetings aren't religious, though they get that way as soon as you hit the suburbs. It's worth going to a few different ones to see which might fit.
posted by small_ruminant at 2:38 PM on April 10, 2009

Part of "helping" him is going to be to take care of yourself and get support for this overwhelming thing you're dealing with. That's why people are offering these suggestions that you yourself go to AA or ACOA or Al-Anon meetings. This is huge, and you could do it by yourself, but it wouldn't be as good for you, or for him, as it would be if you had some support.
posted by salvia at 2:46 PM on April 10, 2009

Another thought... If you give someone the option of cold turkey, they may decide the help offered by AA sounds pretty comforting.

But, in the end, it is your father that needs to want sobriety.

OK, I wrote too much, time to be quiet.
posted by jester69 at 3:05 PM on April 10, 2009

Statistically, AA has about the same success rate as cold turkey, or any other method.

Fair enough. I don't know if this is true, but it may be, since recovering from alcohol addiction is incredibly difficult. Let me rephrase: If he really wants to stop, he will seek professional help.

The important thing is not that he goes to AA, but that he be open to receiving outside, professional help. If he is open to professional help, you will be able to support him and play a part in his recovery.
posted by lunasol at 3:07 PM on April 10, 2009

He's open to my help. He's open to being open with me... you know, talking about it. He's open to me monitoring him i.e. wherever I go he goes.
posted by gman at 3:09 PM on April 10, 2009

I'm an alcoholic myself, and I just have to tell you that Alcoholics Anonymous is just not necessarily cut to fit some of us. In cases where we are not very religious people to begin with, we will will most likely consider that the way of thinking that is required by twelve step programs has something in it that is just really, really dishonest.

For istance, this idea of being powerless before our addictions. This implication of disempowerment just doesn't work for all of us. We need, rather, to find a way back to our own empowerment instead. Also, the idea of giving yourself up to some higher power can also be problematic, because in Alcoholics Anonymous this so often becomes translated in terms of feeling that we are somehow above a higher power, if we don't accept that idea without elaboration.

Believe it or not, many of us drunks recognize that there are numerous and varied higher powers influencing us every day. A cop with his gun or Taser drawn against you is certainly a 'higher power' in any real manner that you could name, but that doesn't mean you could find it in yourself to worship him, or that you should listen to what they will tell you at your local meetings.

Your Dad needs the touch of a human hand on his back right now. I would recommend a website called We Quit Drinking if you think that is the way to go for now. They're a forum that can provide a wider range of people who share this experience than your basic local AA meeting. It might be a slightly less painful way to approach this situation.

In any case, I wish you both the very best.
posted by metagnathous at 4:07 PM on April 10, 2009 [1 favorite]

I'm sorry, I meant to add a link like this one.
posted by metagnathous at 4:11 PM on April 10, 2009

I'm going to take a different view on this than everyone else. Your dad has been able to handle his addictions for year by being a workaholic and caring for others. Those things work for him and he knows it. He's told you that and he's also told you that he feels he can't fight it this time as he no longer has work or people to care for. Since he no longer has the two things he cares about the most and is helpless in the face of his addiction he no longer feels that life is worth living.

How about taking him at face value? Tell him that you believe his analysis of the situation and would like to help him a) get another job or full time volunteer gig and b) find a way that he can be useful to others. If he's a workaholic with a solid professional history he'll probably be a fantastic volunteer, the stuff that non-profits dream of. But take it seriously, like finding him a job because he will treat it as a job. Don't just expect him to find something to "fill his time".

And if he thinks you shoot the moon, let him help you too. Ask him for advice, listen to it, let him help you when he wants to (within reason, my father is this way too and there are limits).

It sounds more like he's drinking to deal with a terrible, but transient personal crisis, than he's a raging alcoholic who can't hold his shit together even when things are going good.
posted by fshgrl at 9:41 PM on April 10, 2009 [1 favorite]

You people rock! I'm going to take the next couple days to consider the varying opinions in this thread. Wow! Thank you. BIG help.
posted by gman at 5:03 AM on April 11, 2009