Urine soaked library books.

April 9, 2009 4:19 PM

Help please. Public Library problem what should I do. Weird.

My public library confronted me as I asked for books on hold. She said I had to pay $60 for two books previously returned that were soaked with urine. Shocked, I asked to see the books which I took outside to examine. No stains, no discoloration, no odor. I was perplexed. Asked another librarian to look at the books. He found nothing. The first librarian said I could not check out any thing until I paid the $60. I left the books behind saying I'd like to have in writing their reason for withdrawing my library card. No letter. I emailed the director of the library asking him to examine the books and tell me how to resolve the problem. Twice. No reply.

What should I do next?

posted by NorthCoastCafe to human relations (13 answers total)

I would try again in person to see if the situation could be resolved, asking to speak to the on-site Librarian in Charge, after that, contact the Library Board.
posted by saucysault at 4:25 PM on April 9, 2009

Snail mail letter has infinitely more impact.
posted by Ironmouth at 4:35 PM on April 9, 2009

Did you put them in a drop box ?...maybe some wiseguy took a leak in the slot.
posted by lobstah at 4:40 PM on April 9, 2009

Nobody withdrew your library card--it's just that your borrowing privileges are suspended because there's a balance on your account.

It sounds like the desk staff wasn't exactly as helpful as they could've been. Go again, during normal business hours, and ask to speak with the person who handles books returned damaged. Describe the situation, as nicely and patiently as possible--library staff have a lot of leeway to extend in how they interact with patrons, and yelling at people and threatening to never return and talking about how your taxes pay their salary (not that I'd expect you to do any of those things, NCC--I've been in the pub-lib biz for a while now, though, and I've seen a lot) is not usually the most effective tactic.

If, after talking to this person, you haven't gotten the resolution you want, the next step would probably be to speak with the branch manager (if it's a branch library) or the head of circulation (if it's a main library).

And if your director is anything like mine, s/he might not check their email all that regularly. You can certainly escalate things to that point, but you probably won't have to.
posted by box at 4:43 PM on April 9, 2009 [3 favorites]

On preview: it wouldn't be the first time, lobstah.
posted by box at 4:44 PM on April 9, 2009

If those books were soaked in urine, the pages would have some curl. This is really wacky.

I am not sure about other libraries but, if a patron insisted that damaged books were returned by them in good condition, we would give them a freebie. You are told to make a note of it in their account. The note is made so, if this is a constant thing, we end their run of freebies and charge them subsequent damaged books.

I would totally go in and talk with the director of that branch. I can't imagine them insisting on the library fine unless you have a history of urine soaked books.
posted by Foam Pants at 6:02 PM on April 9, 2009

Yeeks, I'd worry that between now & then she may pee on the books herself to prove a point. Find the other guy who inspected the books and get a statement in him in writing that the books were undamaged.
posted by pseudostrabismus at 6:25 PM on April 9, 2009

Thirding lobstah. Student librarian, not a practicing one, but if you bookdropped them that's a possibility. When did you return them? Where are you located? Was it just your books that were "pee-soaked", or a whole bunch? There are many libraryfolk on MeFi, so details help. (Some have already appeared)

Also, make sure that those are the EXACT books associated with the incident. Different library systems have different levels of "tracking" of borrowing. We're all still anal about protecting privacy. If they were really urine-soaked, they're not likely worth keeping, and may have already been tossed. (Who wants to handle pee-soaked books, afterall?)
posted by Decimask at 6:26 PM on April 9, 2009

You should call the library director or, if it's a smaller library, the person in charge of this situation (either circulation or billing/damages)

You should say that you were not responsible for the urine on the books, that you brought them to the library in whatever manner and left them in whatever manner you left them (and yeah people do pee in book returns, it's gross, but think if that's a possibility) and they were in okay shape when you left them, and that you would prefer to not have to pay to replace books that 1. were not damaged by you 2. do not appear to have been damaged at all. You should ask what the appeals process is and you should ask that you be able to check out books while your case is being appealed.

You should be civil to everyone involved and approach it with "let's get to the root of this misunderstanding" attitudes which it seems like what you are doing. I agree with box, people have a lot of leeway to work this stuff out easily so while you shoudl not be a total suckup, a little please and thank you will go a long way.

If for some reason this doesn't work, you should write a letter or letters to the board of directors specifically outlining what the problem is, the fact that you have not been able to get someone to address your concerns and what you have done to try to rectify this situation. If it is possible for you to attend a board meeting without seeming like a crazy pain in the ass, you should do this.
posted by jessamyn at 7:03 PM on April 9, 2009 [2 favorites]

You might also inquire if the books have already been replaced. If books came in urine-soaked, it's unlikely that they would have been simply dried out and set back on the shelf, since they'd fall into the "biohazard" category. If the books you've examined are replacements, that's why they show no damage.
posted by donnagirl at 8:19 PM on April 9, 2009

This is funny and bizarre! I'll defer to the library experts here, but add that perhaps you should photograph the books if you can to document the lack of damage.

Maybe someone entered this into the wrong record?
posted by serazin at 8:25 PM on April 9, 2009

1. NorthCoastCafe: Asked another librarian to look at the books. He found nothing. The first librarian said I could not check out any thing until I paid the $60.

Was there no communication at all between these two librarians? Didn't you think to ask him why you had to pay? Wasn't he willing to be part of this conversation?

2. Shocked, I asked to see the books which I took outside to examine.

I'm sorry, and I know this might make perfect sense, but: why did you take it outside to examine it? Was the light bad inside the library? Did you not wish to look at it and show the first librarian?

I'm sorry; this just seems like an odd story, since there are certain things that should be important parts of the story that you're not mentioning at all. What did this librarian say when you stood there, pointed at the books, and said: "look at these books. They are clearly not urine-soaked. Am I just hallucinating?" Did she laugh? Did she tell you that you were full of it? How did she respond when you pointed out that the other librarian said that he saw no damage to the books?

What I'm getting at is that it seems as though "what we've got here is a failure to communicate." Maybe I'm out of line or totally wrong, but it seems like this is what happened: you asked for your books that were on hold and the librarian behind the desk told you that she couldn't give them to you, that you'd returned two books that were soaked through with urine, and that your card was withdrawn until you paid $60 for the books. This was strange to you, so you were a little taken aback; you didn't respond that that hadn't happened, or you said so briefly, but were a little insulted and didn't want to have a long conversation in the middle of a quiet library. You stood there for a moment, letting the shock settle in, and then thought to ask to see those two books; maybe it was a different librarian you asked, or maybe you just asked the first librarian without explaining that you wanted to examine them; you were given the replacement books, which were perfectly clean, and, not wanting to look at them with her hovering over you, you stepped out to get a look at them. You found another librarian at a different desk, and this librarian agreed with you; you said something like "I thought so," and turned around and went back to the front desk, where you were told again that you had to pay $60. Again, you didn't really want to have a big confrontation, so you told them you wanted to see it in writing and left.

My suggestion is this: go back and have a long talk with one or two librarians. I know that libraries don't seem like places to talk, but librarians need to communicate in their jobs just like anybody else; somebody probably has a private office that you can go into and talk about this. Make your case, which seems damned good to me, as clearly and directly as possible: first of all, it wouldn't make much sense to soak a book in urine and then return it, since that would very clearly and obviously be noticed. Second, it would make much more sense that, as was noted above, somebody pissed in the book slot. (This is indeed common.) Third, you were shown the books (although these might have been replacements) and they were spotless. Ask why the library holds you responsible for something that probably happened when the book was in the return slot. Be polite, and don't be confrontational, but also be direct and communicate your position. You should be able to reach some conclusion just by talking to them; that's really the best way to resolve a dispute like this. It may be that some desk assistant was having a bad day or was new and just took out some frustration on you.
posted by koeselitz at 12:10 AM on April 10, 2009 [5 favorites]

You might need to be a bit persistent.

I returned a DVD (the only one in the system) and they claimed they never got it. I'd already tossed my receipt, unfortunately. They were going to suspend my privileges until I paid $35 to replace it. But I found the DVD on the shelf, the paper inside the case ripped exactly as the one I'd checked out (so clearly, they hadn't replaced it yet) and pointed it out to them. It took two weeks of going around and around and over people's heads until finally someone with authority realized that the DVD simply hadn't been checked in right, they really only did have one copy, it wasn't popular enough for them to replace it, and I had a perfect return history for the previous five years so it was unlikely I'd suddenly decide to steal this one DVD.

Be polite, but be persistent.
posted by peanut_mcgillicuty at 6:53 AM on April 10, 2009