too tired for WHAT!?

April 4, 2009 7:31 AM

my fiancee and I have been going through a rough patch. I have no one else to turn to about this, so I'm here.

I'm in my mid-20s and am studying and holding a job. they're both very taxing. I'm barely coping, but I think I've been handling things ok. my grades are not too bad and my work's going pretty fine too. but it takes a lot out of me. I have no time for myself at all.

and this year, I haven't been having time for my fiancee as well. I feel really bad about this. she's studying and is very busy throughout the week. her only free days are weekends. but my weekends are full too.

we hardly meet. but sometimes, she comes and stays over at my place. and we spend the night and leave the house together the next morning and all.

problem is, I'm always worried about school and work or I'm too tired to have sex. and this makes her feel like like she's losing me.

I think it's ridiculous. I love her to death. and I show it. but when I reject her, no amount of reassuring, consoling, loving and kissing and sweet words will pacify her. all hell breaks loose. it's very dramatic. it's like a scene out of Moonstruck. but worse. there are curse words flying about and there are tears. I end up weeping like a little girl too.

now, I don't mean we never have sex. we do. we have great sex. but I must admit, I give excuses most of the time. coz frankly all I want to do is cuddle up with her those times and sleep. but this really upsets her.

I even went through a phase blaming myself for not being able to satisfy her. I thought there's something wrong with me. but it's not that I don't get horny. I sit in lectures and all I can think of is her. a million naughty thoughts go through my head. I immediately text her and let her know. we exchange more than a few naughty text messages and everything looks good.

but these fights take a lot out of us. we're both physically and emotionally tired. I feel especially frustrated coz she's worrying unnecessarily. her fears are unfounded.

I love this woman. I need her. how can I convince her that she's not losing me? that nothing's changed! that I'm just the same old guy she fell in love with?

or what can I do to stop being tired? I want to please her and make her happy. how can I make her feel wanted?

she's not losing me. the notion itself is ridiculous to me. yes, we hardly meet - I understand her frustrations - but I'm at my wits' end. I'm earning just enough to support myself and my mother. I have little savings. I'm working freelance and I'm earning my degree. I've got lots of expectations I have to fulfill. there's a lot on my plate.

or am I just giving excuses? is my situation abnormal? are guys really always up for sex? is there really something wrong with me then?

I don't know...somebody help me, please? thanks so much!

posted by anonymous to human relations (47 comments total)

I have no one else to turn to about this...

Fix this first and you'll be surprised how much better you feel about everything else.
posted by hermitosis at 7:34 AM on April 4 [10 favorites has favorites]

how can I convince her that she's not losing me?

Sounds like she's made it pretty clear what she needs: more sex and more of your time. Either you're going to be able to meet that expectation, or not. It doesn't sound like she's willing to try and see things from your position or to temper her expectations.

If you've absolutely done everything you can to set aside more time for her, and it's still not enough, I don't know what you can do other than give her an ultimatum: deal with this current situation, knowing that it won't always be like this, or take a walk.
posted by wfrgms at 7:42 AM on April 4 [4 favorites has favorites]

This is a tough situation, but you need to explain to her exactly what you explained to us.

There's one thing you didn't mention in your post and I think it makes a difference. Do you really have no time for yourself? There is literally nothing you do for fun or to unwind except cuddle with your girlfriend?

I had a serious relationship with someone who was in a situation that sounds a lot like yours. Studied and worked almost all the time, and spent the rest of his time with me... except when he was playing video games. He didn't think anything of it, but the fact that he'd [effectively] rather play video games than have sex with me pretty much destroyed the relationship. Just in case something like this is going on -- thought I'd mention it.
posted by telegraph at 7:42 AM on April 4 [4 favorites has favorites]

What hermitosis said. Significant relationships aren't actually the kind of thing that two people can do by themselves. Neither of you will ever possibly be able to meet all the needs of the other. There is nothing wrong with this.

On top of that, rough patches happen. But if you're truly committed to each other, they don't have to be as bad as they might, because you both know that whatever happens, you're in it together. Things may be tough now, but in six, nine, or twenty-four months things will be different. Not necessarily easier, but I guarantee they'll be difficult in different ways. And long-term, (dare I say "Permanent"?) commitment enables you to look forward to those changes without being afraid that every little thing is a sign that the relationship is coming apart.

As such, it might not hurt to get married. You're kind of in limbo at the moment, having committed to committing to each other, but not actually having tied the not. It may seem like a quibble, but these things frequently matter more to people on an emotional level than is immediately obvious. Getting married might have do more good than just telling her nothing's wrong (though by all means, do that too!). It won't solve all your problems, but it will give you something to point at ("Remember when we got up in front of all those people and said those things? I wasn't kidding!") that you don't have right now.
posted by valkyryn at 7:46 AM on April 4 [1 favorite has favorites]

or am I just giving excuses? is my situation abnormal? are guys really always up for sex?

Two thoughts on that:

1. Whether or not other men want sex constantly is irrelevant; you're in a place where you have very little time to decompress, and your girlfriend is adding to your stress by placing more demands and guilt upon you, rather than being considerate and letting you have the space you need.

2. In a healthy relationship, there is room for both people to be intimate, and room for both to take time for themselves. You owe your girlfriend some time, but you have a right to say, "I'm exhausted and not in the mood" and not be subject to a melodramatic breakdown. Personally, I'd walk from that situation if she wasn't willing to modify her behavior.
posted by ellF at 7:49 AM on April 4 [6 favorites has favorites]

Keep your worrying to a certain amount of hours per day. Worrying does nothing to solve the problem. Figure out what you're going to do, and do it.

Set aside some time every week to spend time with her.
posted by kldickson at 7:50 AM on April 4

Do NOT get married. If she can't accept that you don't have/are too tired for sex, then those are storm clouds on the horizon. What else will she not be understanding about?
posted by drleary at 7:52 AM on April 4 [1 favorite has favorites]

I know everyone is different, but I'm putting together a few things here -- "we hardly meet. but sometimes she comes over and stays over at my place" and "I must admit, I give excuses most of the time" -- and I'm not sure how much sex this means. If the spending-the-night thing happens, say, a couple times a week, and then most of those times sex is refused ... well ... it sounds like your workload must be inhumanly burdensome, in order to depress libido like that.

How temporary is this? And in the meantime, does your schoolwork ebb and flow, say with the semesters? When you have less schoolwork, are you up for sex? If I were her, I would be okay with this for a limited time, as long as I had the assurance, via an enhanced libido during your off-times, that things would improve once some of these obligations lifted.
posted by palliser at 7:59 AM on April 4

Also, "if I were her," I wouldn't throw fits.
posted by palliser at 8:01 AM on April 4

Make sure she knows that you need her, now, constantly. You may not need to talk to her constantly, or go on dates, but you need to know that she's there for you.

She may be feeling insecure because it seems as though she has no function for you. Make it clear what she gives you: emotional support. And you can't just say "emotional support," you have to give specific examples: "thinking about you during my lectures makes me feel less alone;" "cuddling with you makes me sure that life will be better soon, and helps me not give up." You could also try writing her nice notes or letters on paper, so that she has something romantic to hold in her hands (and enjoy years down the road).

You can also try painting very concrete pictures of your future happy times together. Having something definite to look forward to makes current unpleasantness bearable.

The main thing, though, is that she may feel extraneous to your life. You have to find ways to make it clear that she's not.

Finally, I was in a relationship kind of like this when I was in college. I was the one who had more time, and frankly I probably wasn't mature enough to deal with the idea that the other party still liked me even though he couldn't spend time with me.
posted by amtho at 8:08 AM on April 4 [5 favorites has favorites]

Morning sex.

I'm not kidding at all. Float the idea by her. I'm often too tired to have sex at night these days, but (given a good night's sleep), I'm always willing to wake up a little early for sex.

Barring that, plan a date/sex night--once a week where you both know you'll be having sex. And have sex on those nights. It hurts to get sexually rejected over and over again. And it's not an unreasonable to not want to get rejected on a regular basis when in a monogamous relationship. Show her that you're willing to meet her halfway--even if you don't want to always have sex at the same time as her, that you are willing to have sex, that she's still attractive to you sexually.
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 8:15 AM on April 4 [18 favorites has favorites]

Not unreasonable, rather.
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 8:16 AM on April 4

You are trying to have it all, but you can't. You are being faced with tough decisions, but you don't want to make them. Instead you limp along doing the best you can, hoping that eventually somehow the clouds will lift and you'll have more time or energy for your relationship. Why should that happen?

The situations you are in daily don't just happen to you, they are decisions you are making. You could decide in the morning that you are going to pace yourself today so that you will have the energy to come home and make love to your fiance, but you are letting yourself be ruled by your life, instead of being the ruler of it.

You may not think so, but you are taking her presence for granted now, counting on being able to make it up to her later. Don't fault her for beginning to suspect that "later" may never arrive. Get help, take control, and it you love her, then give her what she needs -- invite her to the main course of your life instead of apologetically handing her the leftovers.

Until you can do this, don't you dare get married.
posted by Julia F***ing Sugarbaker at 8:21 AM on April 4 [22 favorites has favorites]

what valkryn said but with the qualification that you need to make sure that this not having time together is a temporary thing. If you're both in post-graduate study and got years of this situation ahead of you I'd work on trying to rework your schedules (i.e. reducing your hours at work, taking one less class) so that you can spend more time together.
posted by nangua at 8:30 AM on April 4

Agree w/Palliser that the question of how long this has been going on, and how long you expect it continue, is important. You both probably have a lot to learn about what it's reasonable to expect of each other, but I might be more sympathetic with you if this overscheduled rough patch has a clear endpoint within, say, a few months; if the available signs are vague and it seems as if this situation could stretch on indefinitely, I'd be more sympathetic with her. It's clear that the current state of things is not okay for the long term; you have to change it at some point, or lose her. If it's going to end, make it clear to her WHEN it's going to end.

As to "...this makes her feel like like she's losing me. I think it's ridiculous. I love her to death. and I show it. but when I reject her...

...her fears are unfounded. I love this woman. I need her. how can I convince her that she's not losing me? that nothing's changed! that I'm just the same old guy she fell in love with?

...she's not losing me. the notion itself is ridiculous to me. yes, we hardly meet..."

You misunderstand the nature of a loving relationship. She is not kept warm and safe by your feelings. She doesn't care what you feel. She doesn't care that you are or aren't the same old guy. She cares what you do. And what you're doing with her is not enough.
posted by jon1270 at 8:33 AM on April 4 [9 favorites has favorites]

I have no one else to turn to about this...

Fix this first and you'll be surprised how much better you feel about everything else.

The first year of grad school was the last straw for me and my now-ex-wife, and I'm quoting this for truth. Even if you can't talk to people about your sex life, you can talk to them about the stresses you're going through in work and school. Worry and stress can kill a relationship, and even the most awesome woman in the world can only help you through so much of it on her own.

Fortunately, you've got a ready-made pool of people to talk to about work and school stress — your coworkers and classmates. Go out for a drink with some of them after a hard week. Bitch, gripe, moan, snark, complain. Get it all off your chest. Laugh about it together. Let go of the stress you've been carrying around. And then go over to your fiancée's and have awesome sex.

Like I said, I learned this the hard way. Part of the problem was that I'm an introvert, and spending more time with people when I was already stressed seemed deeply counterintuitive. I don't know if you're an introvert too, but if you are, trust me. Once my wife wasn't around and I had to get my emotional support from a half-dozen roommates and classmates instead, I realized that was what I should have been doing all along. Some burdens really are so big that you've got to share them or you'll go nuts — and you owe it to your fiancée not to drive her (or yourself) nuts.

Also: yes to morning sex, yes to expressing your gratitude to the emotional support you're getting, and YES YES YES to discussing this with her, preferably when you're both calm, well-rested and wearing pants.
posted by nebulawindphone at 8:40 AM on April 4 [4 favorites has favorites]

(gratitude for the emotional support. anyway.)
posted by nebulawindphone at 8:41 AM on April 4

I think Doctor Ruth recently came out with a nice little nugget suggesting to men and women that if the partner is in need of some loving, and you aren't in the mood for whatever reason, just suck it up and play along.

Now in theory, when you are really tired or stressed or whatever this doesn't seem like a good idea. But I can tell you from experience that in practice....well it's awesome. I mean come on, it's SEX! I can't think of a better stress reducer and it brings you closer as a couple. And talk about great sleep afterward.

It doesn't always have to be mind blowing hours long sex, just quick and dirty. You are in your 20's don't waste them. It's good to be a go getter and pursuing a career/education but keep in mind that you want someone to share that with so do everything you can to not let that slip away. Find time or make time for her, she deserves it every now and then.
posted by WickedPissah at 8:52 AM on April 4 [1 favorite has favorites]

It doesn't always have to be mind blowing hours long sex, just quick and dirty.

This. Whenever my boyfriend and I don't have much energy, we do a quick one in some easy position like spooning in the morning. And then use a vibrator on her so she comes quickly. The slow stuff is the best, like a good creme brulee made with fresh cream and eggs, but there should be time for Hostess Cupcakes too.

I promise this takes less energy and is more fun than crying fights.

Um, on the subject of food, you need to make sure to eat well so you have enough energy for her. Study + work + ramen noodles = crappy energy levels. Add some good fresh or frozen veggies to your diet and lean protein.

But really, is there any way to get more scholarships/financial aid? I was working two jobs and taking a full course load at one time, but it was destroying me. I found a lot of scholarships to apply for and this year I'm not working at all. Also, why are you living apart? Living together saves TONS of money. Rent is half and I can cook in bulk. I have a small amount of debt in education loans, but I'm doing public service next year which will cancel it out.

I notice people get into a cycle in school. They work too much, get mediocre grades, and then can't get any scholarships. Ask yourself if it's worth it.
posted by idle at 9:08 AM on April 4 [7 favorites has favorites]

I promise this takes less energy and is more fun than crying fights.

Great point. Plus it readies you for sleep, whereas the crying fights leave you wakeful.

why are you living apart? Living together saves TONS of money. Rent is half and I can cook in bulk.

But this I disagree with. The screaming/crying when you have a disagreement, the failure to meet halfway on something as important as sex -- the inertia caused by shared living expenses may not be a good thing here.
posted by palliser at 9:18 AM on April 4 [2 favorites has favorites]

Here are the possible sources of her over-the-top reaction to what she perceives as abandonment by you:

a) your behavior would seem, to the average person, like abandonment, and you need to work on that;

b) she has tremendous abandonment anxiety, and she needs to work on that;

c) she is a very troubled person, possibly with borderline personality disorder, and you should probably end the relationship unless she gets SERIOUS help.


I don't know which of these is the case. You probably don't know, either. A couples counselor would be able to help you guys sort it out.



Now, from my perspective: I have abandonment anxiety like whoa. 20+ years' worth of therapy has led me to understand that this is a result of having a Mom who was withholding and distant, who was chronically ill and often hospitalized for weeks at a time, and who died in the middle of the night when I was 12.

I understand this really well, but it's so hard-wired into me that it takes all the skills I've learned in my zillion years of therapy not to flip out when my husband is unavailable, either emotionally or literally. When we were dating, there was a night when his voicemail wasn't working and I decided, because he didn't return a couple of urgent calls, that he had unilaterally broken up with me. Because he is the most awesome person in the world, he understood that that explosion of crazy was a result of my buggy code on the abandonment topic, and responded very supportively.

It's up to you two what you want to do about this. If you want to keep the relationship, you folks need to sort this stuff out. It may be her issue that she needs to work on; it may be your issue that you need to work on; it may be an issue in your couple dynamics that you both need to work on.
posted by Sidhedevil at 9:36 AM on April 4 [1 favorite has favorites]

it's not that I don't get horny. I sit in lectures and all I can think of is her. a million naughty thoughts go through my head. I immediately text her and let her know. we exchange more than a few naughty text messages and everything looks good.

I don't know, but you need a punch in the dick just for that. Think about exactly what you've said there... And don't be too shocked when one day you get the reply "Really? Oh that's nice. Why don't you go fuck yourself with it then? See you tonight!"

If bed means laying around worrying about things that are going ok and sleeping for you- then fuck her on the couch, and then go to bed. Unless all this drama is actually what you wanted in the first place...?
posted by mu~ha~ha~ha~har at 10:04 AM on April 4 [3 favorites has favorites]

Okay. I am in the same boat, work and school wise, but female. Ask yourself this: which takes up more time and energy, sexing up your girlfriend once or twice a week or fighting it out - which you acknowledge as time consuming and exhausting.

Then ask yourself why you are picking option B. You are either not making rational decisions because of stress and need to give it up when she asks, or she has a point and there is something up with your relationship, in my opinion.
posted by Acer_saccharum at 10:17 AM on April 4 [2 favorites has favorites]

Mu~ha refers to a sentence that struck me. You are thinking about her during school, but you also say you are always worrying about school and work. You are not really being present. When you are at school, focus on school. When you are with your GF, focus on her.
posted by computech_apolloniajames at 10:39 AM on April 4 [3 favorites has favorites]

I'm gonna suggest that 'just suck it up and do it' is a good solution IF (and only if) you have an otherwise solid base of understanding. If you're doing it and she's grateful and understands that you're doing it despite being because you love her, wow - it's great. I'm in that situation a lot. I work as a planning consultant and am a distance runner and my wife's of a similar mindset so we're often both insanely bagged. But, we find the time. It's not 9 1/2 weeks and we both understand this. Recently we've been trying to have a kid and that's actually made it sexier for me.

If it's doing it to shut her up because she doesn't understand and never will, I'd walk from that.

Yes to date nights. Yes to morning sex. Also, be good to yourself. Eat well. Try to make some time to exercise, even if it's riding to school/work. And, no wanking. Save it. If you're randier it makes it easier to get it on.
posted by jimmythefish at 10:43 AM on April 4

Sidhedevil wrote what I was going to write. So I'll just go ahead and say that sometimes, when someone is fundamentally insecure about their relationship, there's really only so much you can do. If it comes down to some profound mental or emotional block she has, she's got to work out on her own how to give herself reassurance rather than seeking it from external sources.

So yeah, in a perfect world, couples counseling would help you guys talk this through, but if you can't work that into your schedule, amtho's suggestion is right on. Find out from her, explicitly, what it is she thinks she needs, and then do your best to provide it.

If she is insecure/has abandonment issues/etc, though, don't be surprised if this isn't enough, because her problem wouldn't be with your conduct -- it's about her, and the way she views the world, and only she can address that.
posted by trunk muffins at 10:53 AM on April 4

Hmm, well they should at least try living together before they get married, since fiance would imply that's their plan and married people don't generally live apart.
posted by idle at 10:54 AM on April 4

Sex when you're tired is much better than a shouting duel when you're tired.

That said, you perhaps should work on the latter together: make some agreements in a calm moment or something about trying not to fight when one of the two evidently doesn't have the energy for it. It is very well to have a, erhm, dynamic relationship, but trying to solve fundamental matters while you're really worn out is death.

Second thing: you want to monitor her shouting and swear words. I've always tried to push them aside in my mind, to be tolerant, to tell myself that I, in spite of everything, love, need etc. that woman, and it didn't end well, because she didn't put it aside, wasn't tolerant and ended up telling herself she didn't love and need me any more.
It ain't nice, swearing at your partner, no matter how terrible you think s/he has behaved. You must acknowledge that, in spite of the fact that you love her. By your description, she doesn't seem to treat you as kindly as you perhaps deserve.
posted by Namlit at 10:59 AM on April 4

So I'll just go ahead and say that sometimes, when someone is fundamentally insecure about their relationship, there's really only so much you can do. If it comes down to some profound mental or emotional block she has, she's got to work out on her own how to give herself reassurance rather than seeking it from external sources.

Wanting to get laid rather than rejected "most of the time" is a sign of a profound mental or emotional block?

Her expectation seems perfectly reasonable -- that he'll make enough room for her that she isn't being rejected most of the time. Her reaction to his failing to meet that reasonable expectation is what's out-of-line.
posted by palliser at 11:07 AM on April 4 [2 favorites has favorites]

Morning sex FTW!
posted by furtive at 11:09 AM on April 4

As someone said above, being "rejected" for sex is tough to accept, even when logically she might know that it's not rejection, it's hard to stay calm when being told "no" and even the most sane girl would overreact I think. I would get especially pissed if I got a dirty text from a guy and was looking forward to sexy time all day and then he just turned around and went to sleep - there is no way to not question being sexy when that happens.

So if your relationship really *is* fine aside from all this, and it really *is* just a rough patch and in a few months it'll get better (what's a few tough months when you'll have the rest of your lives together, right?), then just suck it up and have sex. Having sex ALWAYS feels better than not. Sure you might be too sleepy to think about it, but once you start and get turned on, you'll be happy you did. I tell girls this all the time too - just do it even when you think you're too tired to even roll over, it's good for you!
posted by KateHasQuestions at 11:12 AM on April 4 [3 favorites has favorites]

She needs to really understand the level of stress you're experiencing, and your feelings about it. She needs you to explain to her, plainly and lovingly, all of the things you've written here. The reason she's freaking out is because she doesn't understand why you don't want sex, and because all human beings are emotional, she assumes that it is about her and that it means something about your relationship. Tell her, over and over again if necessary, what it really is. When you have a stressful week, tell her how stressful it was, and keep telling her how much you appreciate cuddling up with her and being able to finally relax, and be in open communication *always*.
posted by so_gracefully at 12:32 PM on April 4

This isn't one of those things where you only want to have sex when *you* initiate it (ie always on your terms), is it?
posted by mandymanwasregistered at 12:57 PM on April 4

I've gotten pretty upset before when I felt sexually rejected by my boyfriend . . . however, I realize it's due to the fact that our relationship is fucked up to begin with. We have so many problems, its almost like sex is the only thing that makes me feel confident and like he wants me and loves me. so when even THAT gets turned down- I can't help it, it makes me feel really upset. Especially because it so rarely happens, when it does, it kinda feels like a big deal.

I would imagine that if I was in a relationship where I felt very secure about everything else, this wouldn't bother me as much. So maybe she really is a sexaholic, but then again maybe she is feeling insecure, and takes your lack of enthusiasm as a sign that something is wrong.

If I were you, I'd try a two-step approach: first, be sure that she feels loved and secure outside of the bedroom. There's no such thing as too much reassurance. Secondly, maybe you could try to make more of an effort to match her level of interest. Im fairly certain women have been doing this forever- and men too- there's nothing wrong with trying to psych yourself up a bit so that you're in the mood when you know you're partner is going to want it. Frequent sexual rejection is hard for anyone to take, I would imagine, and no one's in the mood all the time. but especially if you rarely see her . . . when you know she's coming over, take a nap, wake up, drink some coffee and watch some porn so you'll be ready to jump her. Women want to feel desired, and you aren't really doing it. I'm sorry you're tired, but . . . you gotta suck it up, I think.

although, to be honest . . . if you are fighting and making excuses already instead of trying to make your sex life work, it kind of sounds like something is missing. You want cuddling for stress relief, and she wants sex. It sounds like what she needs is a boyfriend with more free time, and what you need is a golden retriever.
posted by lblair at 1:04 PM on April 4 [2 favorites has favorites]

I don't really believe you're skipping sex because you're tired. She makes a move on you, she really wants sex, go ahead and give her what she wants. Is it really that exhausting? You're going to collapse or get anemia?

I think that for whatever reason you're put off about actual sex with your fiance. Sure, you get turned on and text her when she's not around — but face to face and in bed you're turning away. You can't get your thoughts lined up right. She's trying to push your buttons and they don't work. This probably bothers both of you.

I think she's right to sense you're balking about something. You probably are. I think you're right to think she's demanding more than you can give. She is.

It sounds like she's being strident but clear-cut. She wants more time with you and she wants more of a sex life with you. There's no hidden code in this. You can't or won't give her these things. This is a problem and will continue to be so.

Honestly, if you love each other in a marrying way you demand time with each other. You create it. You kick things out of your life because everything else matters less. And it doesn't seem like a sacrifice to do so! I think you may not feel this way. Perhaps you can act as if you feel this way, and then you will.
posted by argybarg at 3:17 PM on April 4 [3 favorites has favorites]

Alright, I can't read through all these responses, since I'm facing a dilemma that IS yours.

My situation is a little different. We live together, and we're recently married (though we've had this issue since long before the wedding). I'm not chasing a degree, but my career and lifestyle choices mean I have a lot on my plate and I'm always having to learn new skills, apply for new projects, and then be on call 18 hours a day. This complicates things a little bit, because I can't say to my partner that "my plate is full", because her response is just going to be "that's because you filled it, and you forgot to include me." Add a move and the occasional travel to that mix, and we had a ticking time bomb on our hands.

The solution? You will call me insane, I swear you will, but - sex toys and porn.

Really. I know how crazy that sounds, but it worked miracles. I darted out after work one day, snapped up a couple vibrating contraptions, brought them home, left them with a note (a sensitive note that avoids making her feel like you're a pervert and lets her know you know she misses you), went back out for ANOTHER meeting, and I came back and...

For me, it was the excitement of trying something new. I have the classic ADD geek personality, that loses interest in a project the minute it ceases to feel new and exciting for me, sex and sexual partners included. That's a terribly brutal thing to say about my wife, but I know this about myself and have to plan my life around this tendency. For myself, at least, the thought of my wife doing *what* with *what* gets ME off, and that was my original motivation. For the love of god, after a day of banging my head against more problems and trying to become an expert in 30 things at the same time (translation!), the last thing I want is a marathon humping session, sweat all over the blankets, me panting and wheezing and straining while my mind wanders off to somewhere else in the middle of the act. It's not that I don't enjoy it, it's that my head is elsewhere, and the mundanity of doing this thing I've done before just makes me dread it at this hour at this time in this state. But there are breaks during the day where I think that maybe if we tried this new position, or maybe if she wore those cute little underwear in the store window, or maybe if we snorted a bunch of meth, popped 3 viagra, and turned off the phone for a day...I fantasize. They're idle, fleeting thoughts, and you have to learn to take those thoughts and actualize them. With a stable partner and an otherwise healthy sex life, that's what you get to do.

I'm lucky that she's as into exploring as I am, it just took a little jump start and affirmation on my part to engage that dynamic. We're doing much, much better now, and have new things planned for the future. She responded by going out and buying new lingerie. ....

Since we've started down this road a lot has come out, and we've started communicating a lot more about the problem. What a lot of the posters (that I read) are saying is true, rejection hurts. In her words, "Even if we just go at it for 2 minutes, I just need to know you still want to." There are ways, there are so, so many ways to let her know you do. If you're really in a stable relationship, don't feel desperate. Do something new, do something dangerous, do something new that you yourself would be motivated to do in another time and place. I've relayed my own need to feel like we're doing something fresh. It's nothing I can really help; I'm hard-wired to jump around and try new things in life. I've also shown her where my pr0n stash is (I had a long dry patch back when I was single, gotta get through somehow...), and said, "Let's do THIS. You rummage around here and see if you can't come up with something you'd like to do too." She has, and we've both fumbled a few times, but it's been fun as all hell.

I don't know if any of this will be helpful for you, but I want you to know I've felt like you do, and still do about half the time. I worry a lot that I won't have the energy, the time, or the interest. You don't have to be a porn star every night, but I think you do have to show more than excuses (which, if we're being frank, is what you're giving her based on what you said above). Show her some signs of effort. Anything is ok, just so long as it's not, "I'm tired, I'm busy, I'm not in the mood" AGAIN.

If she's not willing to explore...that's another issue. It's what got my then fiance and I through a very similar rough patch though.
posted by saysthis at 3:37 PM on April 4 [1 favorite has favorites]

If you were to neglect your job you'd probably get fired. If you neglected your school work you'd probably get shit grades. Why should neglecting a relationship not come with consequences?
posted by mattsweaters at 3:49 PM on April 4 [2 favorites has favorites]

If all else fails: Morning sex. Morning sex, Morning sex, like phobwankenobi said.

I would look at this question posted yesterday- the question's almost identical, if you replace 'sex' with 'watch movies'. I'm guessing either same poster or a sign of the times.

But really- this being too tired for sex thing just doesn't jive for me. If you're into this person enough to want to marry them, is it really going to kill you to have some action action when you're sleepy?
If she's important to you, act like she is- otherwise, it might be more fair for them to be with someone who can actually find the time to have sex.
posted by dunkadunc at 4:19 PM on April 4 [1 favorite has favorites]

I'm seconding everyone who said that sex is less effort than fighting. If your relationship is good otherwise, just give in and go down on her. Seriously. I work full-time, am sleep deprived because our baby won't sleep more than three hours at a stretch, and so stressed out that it's all I can do to make it through the workday without screaming. If I can put it all aside once in awhile to do something for my husband, anyone can.
posted by christinetheslp at 4:29 PM on April 4

Look, there's probably nothing wrong with her and there's nothing wrong with you. Yeesh.

Your fiance has a high sex drive, and she finds that sex is a way she connects with you. Sex is an important part of a relationship. Two people don't always have the same timing or the same sex drive, though, and stress levels vary. The same thing happens to a lot of people, and will happen over a lifetime, as the two people in a couple go through job stress, family stress, have children, have medical stuff, whatever.

Talk about it when you're not fighting, sure. You sound like a great partner. But sex is important to her - so work on it! She's sacrificing a lot of relaxed time with you so you can complete your studies - this is one way to keep your intimacy strong even in a tough time. And honestly, it doesn't have to take more than 10 minutes before bed to do the trick

I agree that the following strategies could really help:

-morning sex
-making a regular 'date' where it's pre-agreed that it's going to happen
-having sex even when you feel tired - often after you make the first few moves you're not so tired after all
-letting her take the lead, but ask her to in advance so she knows she's not bothering you by trying and that you're not gonna get mad
-being ok with quickies

Finally, I do think the problem is one of living in the moment. I'm like you; I tend to think when I'm stressed or worried over something, whether it be a problem or a project, that I'm not working on it unless i'm stressed or worried all the time. That's false. When you've done all you can in one day, it's okay to tell the boss part of the brain to punch its timecard and go home til tomorrow. Stop working on and thinking about your school stuff, and start refocusing on your own life. Even if we're talking about for only 30 minutes before bed, that 30 minutes is yours and yours alone. In the long run, you'll be more productive and successful if your life at home is more satisfying. If you need some sort of ritual to signal to yourself that the working day is over and it's You time again, do it - it could be as simple as taking a hot shower, switching off the computer and stretching, or changing your shoes like Mr. Rogers. Whatever it takes - just leave some time for yourself and your relationship.
posted by Miko at 5:52 PM on April 4 [2 favorites has favorites]

Your fiance has a high sex drive

I could be wrong, but I don't get the sense from the post that this is the case. I think the poster would like this to be the case, but I think the direct answers to his questions are: yes; yes; not necessarily but generally more than half the times the question is presented; and either that, or maybe you just aren't that into her.
posted by palliser at 6:23 PM on April 4

OK, make it a normal sex drive then. It's normal to me. And I'm still Yes, No, No, and you have a few things to learn yet about LTRs.
posted by Miko at 6:38 PM on April 4

My wife and I had this same problem here recently. My mother recently passed away and I threw myself into school and not dealing with anything. While it is not the same as your situation, the issue with rejection and sex it is the same.

My wife came to me and told me she felt that I was rejecting her and it was starting to make her feel like I didn't want her. That was not the case at all, I too, was very busy and felt extremely tired.

The solution to the problem is simple, pick a time where the worrying about work and school stops. My time-frame is from 8 a.m to 5 p.m. I can worry about school, but after 5 p.m. all I focus on is my wife and our time together. This takes the worry off your mind and makes your fiancee know that you care about her and want to spend time with her.
posted by CwgrlUp at 8:13 PM on April 4 [1 favorite has favorites]

What Miko said: leave school and work at a certain point (even if it's 9:30 pm), and focus on your life, your health, your leisure reading, your laundry, and your girlfriend. You don't even have to put a lot of pressure on yourself about these things, just create an hour or two of space for yourself each day (and don't let yourself fritter it away on Metafilter). Turn off your TV and computer, and put away your work and your books, about ninety minutes before bedtime.
posted by salvia at 11:39 PM on April 4

Fucking always takes less time than fighting.
posted by Optimus Chyme at 12:53 PM on April 5 [2 favorites has favorites]

I don't really believe you're skipping sex because you're tired. She makes a move on you, she really wants sex, go ahead and give her what she wants. Is it really that exhausting? You're going to collapse or get anemia?

....Okay, I know that the poster is a man, and I'm a woman, but -- shit, if the genders in this post were switched, and someone tried giving a WOMAN the advice to just "go ahead and give him what he wants", we'd be stringing them up at the crossroads. Why do people think the advice sucks less when it's a man we're telling to "suck it up and give it up"?



Now then -- I'm wondering, OP, if this whole issue hasn't taken on a life of its own and gotten you both more anxious and tied in knots about the whole deal; you haven't been having sex becuase you're stressed, but the fact that you're not having sex is a cause for more stress, and that makes you less likely to have sex, which is causing more stress, which....

Take a big, big, big deep breath, both of you, and have a very, very long talk. Talk about each of your needs, talk about your states of mind. Talk about what you each are afraid of. Talk about how each of you feels, talk about what you each can and cannot do, talk about how you can possibly meet each other halfway, talk about whether any of these states can change in the future (i.e., "okay, I'm WAY too fried to do X Y Z now but I'm pretty sure that it'll be different in a month"). Talk and talk and talk and talk and talk and talk and talk and talk until you get it all hashed out.

But make that talk the sole of your focus for the day that you're doing it. Pick that one day, or that one weekend if you think you need it, and both of you commit to hashing it all out. And -- that's it. Don't study, don't go into the office -- this day(s) is about you and her and what you each need. If you're so inspired to have sex then, then fine. But the primary focus should be sorting out what page you're both on, why she is so concerned, how she feels by you not wanting to have sex, how you feel when she doubts you like that...

Sex is just one thing. INTIMACY is another. It's possible to have intimacy without sex, and maybe a heavy dose of intimacy is called for here.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:38 PM on April 5 [2 favorites has favorites]

....Okay, I know that the poster is a man, and I'm a woman, but -- shit, if the genders in this post were switched, and someone tried giving a WOMAN the advice to just "go ahead and give him what he wants", we'd be stringing them up at the crossroads.

I don't think so - I've been involved in that very conversation here, and in fact without using extreme terms, a lot of people are comfortable saying that you don't need to be at 100% arousal every single time you begin the sex act. Who is? In a relationship every instance of sex is a negotiation between two people. If we all only waited until we were fully aroused independently before even approaching a partner or accepting a partner's advances, a lot of us wouldn't have much sex. Sometimes taking some time to give the sex act a chance, when you are in full control of the decision to do so even if it's not your primary goal at that moment, is a good thing to do in a relationship.
posted by Miko at 7:32 PM on April 6