How much would you pay for a good MFA program?

April 1, 2009 3:33 PM

How much is too much when it comes to student loans for an MFA program?

So, here's the deal: I've applied to about a dozen Master's of Fine Arts Programs in Creative Writing. So far, I've been waitlisted to three programs with varying funding situations and accepted to the New School in New York. The New School seems to be a very interesting, progressive program (this is the reason I applied), but the funding situation for me in particular is not good.

Basically, my question is this. Given that I've been waitlisted to several programs (including a couple considered "Top 10" for what it's worth) and accepted to one, is it worth it for me to go into $50K in student loan debt to attend The New School?

What I'm looking for here is experience with MFA programs. I understand that acquiring an MFA is not going to pay out the bucks later on. I am leaving my Engineering job/career because I want to finally dedicate the serious time required to bring me creative satisfaction. I could return to it (even the specific job I have right now according to my boss) for a couple years to pay off debt, but in reality I would like to 'retire' from Engineering.

To boil it down into 'yes' and 'no' . . .are the academic and networking opportunities I'll find by studying at the New School for 2 years worth $50K in debt?

Also, for anyone with this experience out there . . . have you applied in successive years? How did that work out? Because it's such a subjective process, what do you think my odds are for getting into some programs next year (with a wholly new, and IMO better, portfolio)?

Sorry this is a bit scattered, all the facts aren't in yet (don't have to decide until 4/15 and there's still letters on their way), but I have some faith in the green re: these issues. Thanks!

posted by nameless.k to Education (19 answers total)

Response by poster: I didn't think to add until after I posted, but . . .the programs I've been waitlisted for have much better funding (ranging from half+ to full-tuition).
posted by nameless.k at 3:35 PM on April 1, 2009

Best answer: I'm in a similar boat as you-- I was accepted to the School of Visual Arts for Illustration for the fall-- I'm still not 100% certain (waiting for those letters myself!) what I'm doing but the cost is $60k and I'm actively considering going despite the cost. Why? Mostly for the experience and for the networking opportunities in being in someplace like New York. Also because while I would learn a lot, it's not a theory-based/100% academic sort of program-- it's much more hands-on, practical, and useful to my career.

I'm not really sure when it comes to creative writing programs how much networking is involved-- what are you hoping to write? Novels? Magazine articles? It might be a bit risky, but I'm not sure specifically what goes into the writing programs. If you're hoping to teach, of course there's a lot of competition. But I think if you're in school writing and honing your skill it'll be that much easier to network, especially if it's something you love. Especially in New York!

But regarding the waitlisting-- would you prefer to go to the schools you got waitlisted for? Because if that's the case, I might wait especially if they'd give you funding. Tricky choice of course, but I'd probably only throw down the money if the program was something I really wanted. Do they offer any merit based scholarships? SVA does, but it goes based on your performance after the first and second semesters...

Sorry, I'm not a heck of a lot of help but just wanted to let you know you're not alone! Good luck and hopefully those letters will arrive soon-- I'm still waiting on my financial aid one and might have to call the department soon.
posted by actionpact at 3:44 PM on April 1, 2009 [1 favorite]

Response by poster: Thanks actionpact . . .The program does offer Merit Scholarships, and I've received one, but unfortunately it only covers about 25% of the tuition.

The waitlisted programs vs. New School is sort of the crux. Without regard for money, the New School is my number 1 choice. Teaching is sort of a default coming out of MFA programs in writing, but at New School I wouldn't be teaching as a graduate student so I would come out with essentially no experience in that area. On the other hand I would have one whole semester where I don't even have classes, and would be able to concentrate on my thesis (a novel-length work). That sort of concentration is why I want to go into a program in the first place. Networking is something of a secondary concern, but definitely a factor in deciding. And the New School seems well situated for that also.


Anyway, thanks for the input. And congratulations!
posted by nameless.k at 3:55 PM on April 1, 2009

Although I don't agree with all of his points, this article (written by an associate professor of English) is rather bleak:

Graduate Schools in the Humanities: Just Don't Go.

However - Life is short, and your happiness is worth something. You sound like you could return to engineering to deal with the debt if necessary and that's a good back-up plan. Too few people these days really pursue their passions in life, and I would encourage you to go for it.
posted by Ostara at 4:00 PM on April 1, 2009

For God's sake don't go into significant debt to get a degree that has only the most minute chance to ever earn you even the most meager of livings.
posted by dersins at 4:06 PM on April 1, 2009

Agreed. If your living situation is tenable, I say wait. Maybe you get in somewhere desirable this year, without a heavy debt burden. Or, you could reapply next year, work in the meantime and set aside money towards the degree. It's not a case of giving up, but being pragmatic.
posted by woodway at 4:24 PM on April 1, 2009

Best answer: I don't really know how grad school works, but will you get any merit-based aid if you are admitted from the waitlist? Doesn't that money go to the "top" applicants first? Are you guaranteed funding at the schools you're on the waitlist of?
posted by fructose at 4:40 PM on April 1, 2009

Unless you go back to engineering jobs for the rest of your life after you graduate, you won't be having an easy time (if ever) paying off debt. Writers are treated like crap in the job world, especially nowadays. I've heard that you want to pay as little as possible for grad school. Optimally, get them to pay you. 60K to do creative writing? Good lord. Hell, if I had any brain power to do it (sadly, I don't), I'd go become an engineer.

Writing is incredibly limiting in your power and ability to be employed and pay off that 60K. If you must, must, must go to grad school, at least go to whoever offered you full tuition. I don't think 60k of debt is worth "networking" or going to a prestigious school, especially for writing, which isn't quite as "old crony network" as you might think.
posted by jenfullmoon at 4:45 PM on April 1, 2009 [1 favorite]

Response by poster: fructose: good question. There is some pretty wide variance, and I get the feeling that MFA programs may be a bit different than typical graduate programs. For example, at one of the programs I've been waitlisted for, all tuition is covered for everyone in the program waitlist or not. At another, everyone in the program gets at least 1/2 tuition (even those on the waitlist) and can subsequently work up to more funding (potentially full tuition coverage). These programs tend to be very small (between 5 and 20 students accepted each year).
posted by nameless.k at 4:45 PM on April 1, 2009

Best answer: Speaking as someone now paying off $600 a month's worth of MFA debt, I say don't do it. I went to a great program and had a really good experience, so I'm not saying don't go at all, but all the networking experience in the world isn't worth paying that much money a month for the next 30 years. Hold out for a funded program, and if you can't get one this year, try again another time. Don't dig a financial hole for yourself like I did.
posted by jesourie at 4:46 PM on April 1, 2009 [1 favorite]

Best answer: If you think you could always go back to engineering and pay off that amount in two years, then frontload it. Stay in your engineering job for another two years and save up the money needed. During that time, apply for all the scholarships you can (there really are a lot of creative writing based grants) and continue to hone your craft.

I'm at an MFA program in screenwriting at a top 3 program (finishing in June), and for me, it's been worth it, without a doubt. I've gotten a ton of momentum and made inroads that I just couldn't have done otherwise. However, that may be unique to screenwriting. And I haven't gone into any debt to do it, I dipped into (depleted!) savings.

Also, I was rejected the first year I applied (outright, I didn't even get an interview) and the next year I was accepted (with different material.)

All that said creatively, it's VERY fulfilling, so I say you should figure that into the equation.
posted by visual mechanic at 4:55 PM on April 1, 2009 [1 favorite]

Best answer: On the other hand I would have one whole semester where I don't even have classes, and would be able to concentrate on my thesis (a novel-length work). That sort of concentration is why I want to go into a program in the first place.

Taking four months off from work and focusing on writing a novel will probably cost you less than $50,000.

You don't say which genre you applied in. I have an MFA in fiction from a great program. The teachers were amazing. On my own, it would have taken 5-10 years for me to get to the same place as a writer as I did with their help. The networking opportunities were nice but not career-making. Most classmates who went out for adjuncting jobs got them somewhere, if not always in their first choice locations. But, adjuncting pays little, eats up all their time, and tenure-track/lecturer positions require at least an MFA and a book, as well as increasingly go to candidates with PhDs and two books.

The program was insane, life-changing, and fulfilling. Would I have borrowed $50k to fund my degree? Absolutely not. Borrowing seemed like a surefire way to jeopardize my artistic future because I was committing to having sufficient income to cover the loans for ten years after graduating, which implied reduced freedom to take lower paying jobs so I'd have the time to write.

I also hear that a lot of programs had very large applicant pools this year, so you may in fact have better luck applying another time.
posted by whimwit at 5:34 PM on April 1, 2009 [2 favorites]

Response by poster: Thanks everyone. There are a lot of good answers here but I won't mark it closed because the more the merrier. By the way, I have applied for Fiction.
posted by nameless.k at 5:42 PM on April 1, 2009

If you aren't reading it already, The MFA Blog may be worth your time.

Also, your choices aren't just Old Career vs. Starving Writer, as much as the MFA community sometimes seems to think so. Engineering + writing might = tech writer, which is significantly less bleak than living off of royalties or an adjunct salary.
posted by gnomeloaf at 6:00 PM on April 1, 2009

Are the teachers at the New School program writers who you actually admire and think you can learn from? I'm leaning towards the "don't do it" answer, because the whole academic publishing route through small college journals is dying out. The only reason it still exists today is because of subsidies from the colleges and universities themselves. (I worked as a lackey at one of America's premiere literary journals. Great place, great editor, but he spent 90% of his time traveling around going to fund-raisers to try and keep the damn thing solvent.)

What might be worth going into debt over would be working and studying with one of your literary heroes. Because she probably has connections with people you could benefit from, etc. So if you'd posted something like "I have an opportunity to study with [Greatest Author Evar, In Your Opinion]," I think you could justify going into debt. Not so much "it sounds like a cool, progressive program."

Shorter answer: Take $10,000 and travel around the world.
posted by bardic at 7:03 PM on April 1, 2009

Best answer: Out of interest, what, exactly, do you hope to get out of this program? Do you aspire to make a living as a fiction author? To teach? To generically "write for a living"?

I am assuming that you hope to write for a living--if that's untrue, my answer may not apply.

It's my opinion, though, that *any* debt is too much to go into if your primary goal is simply to make a living as a writer. As others have pointed out, taking four months, six months, even a year off of work to develop yourself creatively can be done for far less than $50K.

I am a fiction editor. I read dozens of submissions each month, and I reject the ones that are signed "Jane Doe, PhD" just as often and as easily as I reject the ones that don't mention any education at all. Unless you're planning to write nonfiction--and sometimes not even then--your educational background counts for exactly nothing. I work with some authors who have doctorates, and some who never finished high school.

One thing to remember as you look at schools is this: most authors get rejected repeatedly before they sell anything, let alone sell anything for enough money to live on. Every dollar that you spend on a degree is a dollar that's going to have to come out of your writing time. $50K in student loans is going to be a big damn payment, every single month. That sort of debt is ultimately going to make it a lot harder to provide for yourself, especially in a field like writing where incomes are notoriously low, anyhow.

If you're determined to go to school, I'd suggest going to where you're getting the best package at the least cost to you--that is, if a school offers to cover your full tuition, go there. No arts program is worth the kind of money that you're talking about.

If you're looking for networking, and a chance to develop yourself creatively for a fraction of the cost of an MFA, drop a thousand dollars a year on convention fees and membership to a writing group. (Science Fiction and Fantasy Writers of America if you write sf/f, Romance Writers of America if you write romance, so on and so forth.) The writing groups are troves of information and have writers at all stages of their careers. The conventions are where you'll network, where you'll meet editors and agents--in other words, where you'll meet people who can get you published.
posted by MeghanC at 7:20 PM on April 1, 2009 [2 favorites]

if you want networking then get internships at places where you want to work. don't go into debt for an MFA; you'll never, ever pay it off.
posted by Jason and Laszlo at 7:24 PM on April 1, 2009

OK, I'll pile on. I've got an MFA in creative writing in poetry. I'm happy I did it -- it gave me time I could completely focus on my writing. I also met a lot of great people (including my wife) and learned to appreciate good beer. If you can do it for free, I would absolutely go for it.

But if you have to go into debt, it just isn't worth it. YOU WILL NOT GET A TEACHING JOB. Read that several times until it sinks in. The degree might be mildly impressive if you're applying for a related job (e.g., tech writing). But it's unlikely to get you more money.

I heartily second MeghanC's advice -- if you can't get a fellowship to pay for school, you'd be far better off keeping your day job and spending some time and money on writing groups and conferences. Good luck! Don't give up on your dreams and keep writing :)
posted by Shoggoth at 6:02 AM on April 2, 2009

I have enjoyed my MA program. The faculty are amazing and my fellow grads are a dynamic, friendly group. I hooked up with a great supervisor and I'm submitting my thesis in the next few weeks. I look at the research and writing skills I have gained in the last couple of years and feel better prepared to take on the world.

Would I have done it without funding? Not a chance. I'm starting to realize my job prospects are less about a master's degree in the social sciences and more about who I know. And I go to school in Canada, where tuition is significantly more affordable.

Schools give funding to those who excel and from the sounds of it, you're one of those people. Don't settle.
posted by futureisunwritten at 6:57 AM on April 6, 2009