WTF filter

March 23, 2009 4:09 PM

What to do about an estranged friend who is sending mixed signals?

For some years, I had a close friend, N_____. We were thick as thieves, had in-jokes, private names, all the rest. At some point, I realized I was crushing majorly on N_____. (For what it's worth our genders and sexual preferences were aligned.) I spoke up, but N______ did not return my feelings and let me know this. I accepted the brushoff without complaint. Some years later I realized that the feelings were still there and made my pitch again. Again I got waved off and accepted it without whining. I began to accept that it was never going to happen and I started to shed the crush. Just to be clear, my communication of my feelings to N______ were in private conversations - no skeezy maneuverings or embarrassing public displays. In the meantime, our friendship seemed unchanged. We still hung out as much as ever (admittedly, we live in different cities so this was not a hell of a lot).

A month later I tried to reach N_____ about something and was not able to, so I left a couple of messages saying "Please call back, it is important." I got a curt e-mail saying "I do feel you should stop calling me and stop thinking about me...we have had nice times together but I refuse to any longer enable this 'obsession' or whatever you want to call it. Please move on." and "You can call me when you are ready to tell me that 100% you never ever think of me as anything other than just a friend then I will be your friend."

I wrote back that day to say that I understood, that I was no longer crushing but that realistically there was no way I could guarantee I would feel one particular way about anyone or anything for the rest of my life. I said I was sorry that my feelings had caused N_____ to be uncomfortable but I was grateful that N____ had helped me and not broken my heart any more than necessary, and that I still wanted us to be friends.

No response. I can take a hint, so I did not try to contact N____ after that, save for a brief e-mail a month later to say "I really want to be your friend. I have had so much fun with you and I hope it's not over." No response then either.

So, I kicked myself for having managed to alienate one of the most amazing people I had ever met. But since the second e-mail went unanswered, I have respected N_____'s wishes and not called or written again. I did wonder why N_____ had never removed me as a friend on Facebook, though.

A few weeks ago, in the midst of the birthday wishes on Facebook comes a message on my wall (that is, a public message) from N_____ wishing me a happy birthday. The message incoporates an in-joke and a nickname that no-one else ever called me. I am suprised by this and write a brief private note back to say "Thanks. How have you been?" But since then, silence.

So, WTF? I hate this high school crap. If N_____ really wanted to cut off communications, why send me a message with our private jokes embedded? If N_____ wants to feel out the possibility of getting in touch again, why not answer? Did I overstep my bounds by saying, "Thanks. How have you been?"

Until a couple of weeks ago, I was just saddened that I had lost a great friend. Now I am confused. Any suggestions beyond a snide DTMFA?

posted by anonymous to human relations (36 comments total)

You replied appropriately, but you're way overthinking it.
posted by mpls2 at 4:17 PM on March 23 [2 favorites]

Oh wow. I hope some day, when you're in a healthy and loving relationship, you come back and read this and smack your head and ask yourself, "What the hell was I thinking?"

Here's what's happened:

1.) You had a tight relationship with this person. You developed romantic feelings and were rebuffed.

2.) You continued to press your romantic feelings on the other person and were rebuffed yet again.

3.) N____ went so far as to say clearly in email: "It ain't going to happen. Get over it. We can't go back to being friends until you put this behind you - if ever."

4.) N____ sees it's your bday and wishes you well. You completely misinterpret this friendly overture as a "mixed signal."

Oh man. Where to begin? Look. You need to find a person to go out with, someone who you can focus all of your misplaced romantic feelings for N____ onto. Until you do that you're still going to carry a flame for this person, who sounds like they want to be friends, but have been clear about the extent of their interest.

Seems clear cut to me.
posted by wfrgms at 4:19 PM on March 23 [7 favorites]

I wrote back that day to say that I understood, that I was no longer crushing but that realistically there was no way I could guarantee I would feel one particular way about anyone or anything for the rest of my life

Sorry, but you are the one who is sending mixed signals. The statement above is vague and leaves open to them that you may still try to pursue them romantically. Try sending a message acknowledging your understanding that they do not wish to have that kind of relationship and your desire for them to be only a friend. Existentialism is not helpful here, you want to be clear about your intentions, ignoring the possibility that you two might someday be the last two humans on earth able to procreate.
posted by rhizome at 4:22 PM on March 23 [2 favorites]

I disagree. For all the misteps before, a simple "how have you been" in response to a happy birthday is normal and polite.

The ball is now in N's court. You can legitimately expect an answer, given that N initiated contact. But if no answer comes, you have to let it go and don't contact N again. Maybe in five years, if you still want to then.
posted by CunningLinguist at 4:22 PM on March 23 [10 favorites]

You're on N______'s radar but N______ still want's to keep a distance. It sucks, no doubt about it, but besides sever communications from your end (block friend form facebook or similar) there's not much you can do.
posted by furtive at 4:22 PM on March 23

You completely misinterpret this friendly overture as a "mixed signal."

Yeah, I have to agree with this. It was a friendly gesture, but it doesn't necessarily mean anything beyond that; Facebook greetings of this sort can sometimes just be the equivalent of waving "hello" as two people walk down the street in opposite directions, you know?

In any case, the simple facts of the matter are this: N. made a friendly gesture, you replied apprpropriately, N. chose not to further the conversation (although he/she may just be slow on the uptake; I'm terrible about letting messages sit for weeks or more before I get around to replying). That's it. So keep moving forward exactly as you were.

And if it would be easier for you not to be on N.'s Facebook radar (and for N. to no longer be on yours), that's a choice you can make yourself.
posted by scody at 4:29 PM on March 23

Oh, and my caveat about N. possibly just being slow at replying (like I can be) doesn't mean that I think you need to keep holding out hope for a reply. Don't pick up that torch and relight it!
posted by scody at 4:32 PM on March 23

Live your life, for the rest of your life, as if N___ has passed on. For all intents, she has. Do not act as if N____ never existed (that would be unhealthy), but don't hold out some fantasy that ten years down the road you'll run into N____ and N____ will then be all into you.

The friendship is in the past. If you can bear it, put an "ignore" block on N___'s facebook so you don't have to even wonder, next year.
posted by notsnot at 4:38 PM on March 23

Until a couple of weeks ago, I was just saddened that I had lost a great friend. Now I am confused. Any suggestions beyond a snide DTMFA?

There's no confusion; it was a simple if ill-thought-out happy birthday greeting. I am sorry to tell you this, but you've been DA, MF: forget this person and move on.
posted by Optimus Chyme at 4:45 PM on March 23 [1 favorite]

In addition to all the advice above, you should also delete her from your friend's list.
posted by MaryDellamorte at 5:15 PM on March 23 [1 favorite]

No one - except N, of course - can tell you why N left a facebook message for you and then failed to respond to your response. The way to handle this is to let it go. N may or may not contact you again. I do not recommend that you contact N. Live your life on your own terms, and if N wants to be a part of it again as a friend, N will make contact.

If you can get to a place mentally where no part of your happiness depends on hearing from N again - or even knowing why the communication went as it did - you'll be well set. Not that hearing from N wouldn't add to your happiness, just that you're not dwelling on it or spending lots of energy overthinking one-line messages.

About your earlier exchange, where you couldn't guarantee you wouldn't feel that way in the future:

Whoa. That is exactly what the less-interested person does not want to hear. To be friends with someone, you want to be able to relax around them and not have to police yourself for inappropriate signals. Can you imagine N's thoughts? "What if Anon gets the wrong idea from this friendly hug?" Or "Anon would love this movie, we should see it together! Wait, maybe I need to invite someone else too so it doesn't look like a date!" Or "I bet Anon would really like my new sweetie! We should all get together for lunch! Oh no, is this going to be weird?"

To put it bluntly, the wording of your response seems weaselly. Combine that with the fact that your crush resurfaced several years after being rebuffed the first time, and I can see why N would be hesitant to stay in contact.

But was N asking you to predict the future and promise the unpromisable as a condition of friendship? Look, anyone with a relatively nuanced view of the world knows that people can throw around words like 'always' and 'never' with abandon, all the while knowing that circumstances change and anything can happen. I'm interpreting here, but what I think N wanted was to know that N did not have to tapdance around your crush. N was only willing to continue the friendship if you gave an assurance that N did not need to self-censor around you.

To a request like N's, there are only two good answers: Either you do not have a crush, and everyone can relax into the friendship, or you do, and a cooling-off period is necessary for both your sakes. I suppose you could lie and repress things until you got over it, but that could be stressful and lead to drama.

So let go, move on, nurture your other friendships. Living well isn't just the best revenge, it's the best, period.
posted by expialidocious at 5:21 PM on March 23 [2 favorites]

I've been on N_________'s side, perhaps. I would vote that (s)he has regrets about where your relationship went (ie, nowhere) and misses you at times, but thinks it's best not to be in contact with you.

Trust me, nothing but heartache will come your way if you pursue even a friendship with N____. Get out while the getting's good.
posted by OrangeDrink at 6:20 PM on March 23

It seems to me that when somebody says, "You can call me when you are ready to tell me that 100% you never ever think of me as anything other than just a friend then I will be your friend," they are working very hard to make sure that you do not interpret their words to mean anything more reasonable than what they've actually said. Personally, I'm not about to put the contents of my head up for negotiation or guarantee. The only way I'd be willing to say that is if I considered N___ to be a jerk -- but then, I probably would think that of someone who'd make a demand like that, so it all works out.

Something awfully strange can happen to people when you shed a crush on them. Many years ago I had a similar situation. I had a crush of long standing, accepted "No", and moved on to live a happy life. When it was obvious that I was no longer available to my version of N, he became weird and hostile. Shedding the crush changed the dynamic, and not entirely to his benefit. He may not have wanted the crush, but afaict he was perfectly happy to have the side benefits of the crush, particularly my habit of treating him like the most important person in the room. I'd tried to keep my dignity about it all, but I was a pretty girl mooning after him, and I'm sure that did his social cred no harm at all.

I'm not saying that N wants to date you. That's not the case. I am suggesting that N may feel angry because the social benefits of being crushed on are gone now. They may be mad at you for that but unable to admit to themselves why -- it is, after all, not a flattering thing! -- so they've created some big story in their heads about what an obsessive you are. This way they get to be all heroic (they're not gonna enable you!) while still believing that they are so marvelous that nobody would really walk away from a crush on them.

Note that the "Happy Birthday" was public, but N has nothing to say to you privately. That suggests to me that N would like the world to think that they're a Good Guy and that you guys are still friends, but your feelings aren't a priority.

N sounds like he/she is bringing the drama pretty hard here. (I'm not speaking to you! Happy birthday! No I'm still not speaking to you! Whatever, N.) Life is too short for this. N knows that your door is open, and they know where to reach you; you've done your part, and now you're done.
posted by sculpin at 6:42 PM on March 23 [10 favorites]

I'm in the mixed signals camp myself. If N_____ wanted out, why would he/she write the, "You can call me when you are ready..." e-mail? Why would N___ not cut the poster loose as a friend? Why send a cutesy birthday message?

I have had friendships go south on me. I certainly wouldn't be doing any of this stuff that N___ is. The best thing I could advise the poster is not to assume that N____ has his/her shit together and might be as fucked up as anybody.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 6:46 PM on March 23 [1 favorite]

I'd say that birthday wishes on Facebook are pretty basic--I'll wish happy birthday to random folks I haven't seen in years. This was N___ saying that she cares about you at least that much (which is to say, more than a random stranger). It wasn't an invitation to talk.
posted by timoni at 6:47 PM on March 23 [1 favorite]

It wasn't a mixed signal, it was a simple happy birthday and you're overthinking it. My advice is to let it go and don't contact N until you're fully over it... i.e. happily seeing someone else and honestly not interested in anything more than catching up with N as an old friend. But by the time you're 100% over it, you'll probably feel sort of silly about investing so much time and thought into someone who just that wasn't into you that you may not even want to touch base. These things happen, and someday you'll be on the other side of the equation and that can be heartwrenching as well. Try your best to move on. And if you feel compelled to contact N again, wait several months to do so.
posted by emd3737 at 6:53 PM on March 23 [1 favorite]

It's not a mixed signal. You want it to have more meaning than it does ... but in all likelihood N doesn't mean it the way you want it to mean.
posted by Comrade_robot at 8:44 PM on March 23 [2 favorites]

I'm millionthing the "THIS IS NOT A MIXED SIGNAL" camp.

As others have already said, if she doesn't respond to your thanks for the birthday message, that means she's done with the communication for now.

I honestly don't know how she could have been any clearer with you about her lack of interest in a romance with you--saying, in effect, "I don't want to communicate with you unless it's understood 100% that no romance will ever happen between us" is about as clear as it gets.

Women are not complicated and mysterious (any more than men are). Happy birthday + injoke + nickname does not mean "I WANT YOU TO SEX ME UP!" or "NOW I REALIZE MY PASSIONATE LOVE FOR YOU!" It means "Happy birthday, friend from the past."

And not responding to the response means "Said my piece, I'm done now." It doesn't mean "Please pursue me more because I'm playing hard to get."
posted by Sidhedevil at 7:20 AM on March 24 [1 favorite]

She was being friendly.

You are taking it to be more than it is. You need to get over your crush.
posted by chunking express at 7:28 AM on March 24 [1 favorite]

Wow, why do people assume that anonymous is still in love with N? Why are people even assuming N is a woman?

Anonymous, I would send N a brief e-mail (prefaced that you're just trying to make sure you're both on the same page) saying, essentially, that you're no longer crushing on them, that you'd like to be friends with them, but that you understand if that's too weird for them because of what's happened in the past. Tell them to contact you if they want to be friends again and specifically say "I want to be friends again!" (or some less awkward version of that) and that otherwise you'll assume that N's just being polite. And then go back to ignoring N's existence. If they send you a facebook greeting or some pleasantry in the future, you can respond in kind but you'll know that it doesn't mean N wants to rekindle the friendship.

The trick is that this has to be the truth. You need to be over N - and not just romantically. You also need to accept that your friendship may be gone for good (which it sounds like you had done before - good!). I get the sense that you only have one more chance with N (if that) so if you *haven't* gotten over them make sure you don't start hanging out with them again until you have.
posted by shaun uh at 7:37 AM on March 24 [1 favorite]

Wow, why do people assume that anonymous is still in love with N?

Because he probably wouldn't be asking a bunch of strangers on the Internet how to deal with this non-situation if he wasn't.
posted by chunking express at 7:40 AM on March 24

N______ is just being kind, believe it or not.

She doesn't want to seem cruel, so she's using a combination of friendly words and silence instead of saying "LEAVE ME THE FUCK ALONE. YOUR ATTENTION IS CREEPY." N______ has not yet figured out that some people will industriously avoid taking a hint--even when its more obvious than a hint.

If you'd like to play a further role in her education, keep on checking in every so often to see if everything's cool yet.

Eventually, N_____ may learn a valuable lesson in being direct.

-
posted by General Tonic at 7:40 AM on March 24 [1 favorite]

Also, I second emd3737's advice to wait a little while before you do this, and also if you happen to be happily seeing someone else, that would go a long way to convincing N that you're not still romantically interested in him/her.
posted by shaun uh at 7:40 AM on March 24

Because he probably wouldn't be asking a bunch of strangers on the Internet how to deal with this non-situation if he wasn't.

My first AskMe question was a "how to deal with losing a good friend" question. I think it's entirely possible that anonymous still has feelings they're not admitting to him/herself but assuming that people could only care enough about a *romantic* interest to worry like this about staying close with them trivializes friendships.
posted by shaun uh at 7:42 AM on March 24

My first AskMe question was a "how to deal with losing a good friend" question.

This question isn't about how to deal with loosing a good friend. This question is about how to deal with a person sending mixed signals. And lots of people, myself included, think the signals aren't very mixed.
posted by chunking express at 7:56 AM on March 24

Wow, why do people assume that anonymous is still in love with N?

Because he probably wouldn't be asking a bunch of strangers on the Internet how to deal with this non-situation if he wasn't.

And so, asking the question anonymously of a bunch of strangers on the internet, why would the poster omit this crucial detail? I don't see anywhere in there where the OP says "I am still in love with N;" why conceal this from AskMe?
posted by ricochet biscuit at 8:00 AM on March 24

I don't see anywhere in there where the OP says "I am still in love with N;" why conceal this from AskMe?

Maybe he doesn't think that he is. Actually, it doesn't matter. He's over thinking things regardless of how he feels for her. This is a pointless derail. Can you point to answers that are invalid because people are making assumptions about the OPs feelings? The question is about how to deal with mixed signals, as I said above. And there are no mixed signals to deal with, as far as I can tell.
posted by chunking express at 8:08 AM on March 24

How else should N______ have dealt with the situation? People are concerned that this person didn't respond quickly enough to a facebook response? That's the mixed signal being sent?

To me, N______ was unusually clear, and unusually patient - having already made it completely clear once around, they still gave the person a second chance. Note that the OP never says anything about flirtation or leading on in the interim that might suggest someone who enjoys having a crush hanging on for "social benefits". N_______ stated their position straightforwardly, and after having to go through this awkward conversation twice, N______ made it clear that they really didn't want to be in an unhealthy friendship, and that the OP had to get themselves figured out before they could hang out. That seems perfectly reasonable, and the exact opposite of someone who enjoys followers or admirers.

A facebook interchange has to end at one time or another, and there are plenty of times when it ends when one side has a question hanging. That doesn't mean anything on its own. IN fact, if I had got a message from someone who I had such complicated history with, I would have written a more casual return message (or perhaps written something on their wall another time, or something) - instead of jumping straight on it & asking a direct question, when part of what you want to convey is that you are no longer obsessed with them. Seems to me you may have made N________ unsure whether you were really over the crush, and therefore made him or her feel it was best to back off a bit.

If you are always going to feel like you're in love with this person somewhere in your heart, it is probably best to just cut contact altogether. Don't try to be friends just because it's "better than nothing" when it really just makes you pine for more.
posted by mdn at 8:30 AM on March 24 [1 favorite]

And so, asking the question anonymously of a bunch of strangers on the internet, why would the poster omit this crucial detail? I don't see anywhere in there where the OP says "I am still in love with N;" why conceal this from AskMe?

This entire question isn't the kind of question that somebody asks unless they have more than friendly feelings for somebody else. A friend not answering a "how are you?" on Facebook is not really a huge deal.

My advice is not to keep writing emails and trying to get into contact with N. Even e-mails about how you are totally over N and want to be friends are counter-productive because people who are entirely 100% over other people and are friends do not write e-mails about how they are totally over them and want to be friends. Continuing to try to write e-mails is just going to push N away and make N more uncomfortable.

Let N be the one who contacts you next.
posted by Comrade_robot at 8:42 AM on March 24

shaun uh wrote: Anonymous, I would send N a brief e-mail

Anonymous has already written back in response to N's "Happy Birthday" message. See the original post: I am suprised by this and write a brief private note back to say "Thanks. How have you been?" But since then, silence.

The communication ball is in N's court. N is choosing not to return the communication ball. More emails from Anonymous will not make N any more inclined to return the communication ball.
posted by Sidhedevil at 10:41 AM on March 24

Can you point to answers that are invalid because people are making assumptions about the OPs feelings?

Something like a quarter of the answers seem to be "No, you should not be contacting N____ until you are over your crush" or "Maybe once you are dating someone else, it would be cool but not till then." The OP states he/she is over the crush and is silent on whether or not he/she has a sweet babboo these days. I am inclined not second-guess people's motivations unless I have a good reason to do so. Maybe the OP is still carrying a torch, but I don't see a reason not to take this at face value and treat it as such.

And I am sorry, but these are not unmixed signals. Unmixed signals would include severing all contact (i.e. severing the friend link on facebook) and not sending a damn happy birthday message. Who initiates contact with people they want no contact with? My circle of friends when I was twenty included one guy who turned out to be deeply troubled. He lied consistently to all of us, scammed money off of us, manipulated us to the best of his abilities, spread rumours to sabotage our professional and personal lives... eventually he burned all his bridges. He is really the only person I have ever thought of as a friend who I just have no use at all for now. We all look back and shake our heads sadly, and I am sure none of us sends him a birthday card.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 1:14 PM on March 24 [1 favorite]

I don't understand how people act like that. Hell, I ran into an ex-friend last year who was all huggy and wanted my contact info, then never contacted me. This year she flat-out ignored me when I saw her.

Bottom line: people make no sense, but odds are N rethought being nice to you and you'll never hear from him/her again. Sorry. I'd defriend/block N because clearly even that much contact is an issue here.
posted by jenfullmoon at 1:58 PM on March 24 [1 favorite]

To make clear, the reason why I suggested one last e-mail was more for anonymous' peace of mind than because I think it will reignite the friendship. I overthink things too, and this course of action would let me say, "Okay, I've done everything I could for this friendship, and now I'm not going to think about it again unless they contact me and specifically say they want to try again".

A friend not answering a "how are you?" on Facebook is not really a huge deal.

It is if this friend has suddenly cut off contact from you months ago. Anyway, this really is a derail, so I will stop arguing.
posted by shaun uh at 3:03 PM on March 24

Who initiates contact with people they want no contact with?

Quoted for truth. And the wtfness is heightened even more by the injokes. "Happy birthday" I could take as a simple, if stupid, expression of civility. "Hey there Baba Ghanoush! Keep those eggplants flying one more year!", or whatever? From an estranged friend who used to be very close? That reads to me like N___ is not-so-subtly reminding Anon that they used to be the kind of friends who'd talk like that. If someone starts getting nostalgic at an estranged friend, they should be prepared for the consequences of appearing to open a channel of communication.

That birthday wish sounds to me less like kindness than like plausibly deniable cruelty.

Anon, I submit to you that N___ is not so great. I'm even going to inch a little further out on that limb and say that not only do I think N___ has gotten something out of considering you to be obsessive, I think that consciously or not, N___ has just acted in such a way as to make obsessive-looking behavior on your part pretty likely. They know you well; it's not rocket science to foresee that their alternating superfriendliness and silence is going to have you tearing your hair out wondering what their deal is. They've got you on a string. I think you should cut that line -- not for their happiness, but for your own.
posted by sculpin at 3:48 PM on March 24 [2 favorites]

In my experience, people will sometimes use Facebook to allow them to keep in touch in the most half-assed way possible. In other words, some people will touch base/check in like this once a year or so, with no intention of ever going any farther. This can be a way to show "no hard feelings" and to avoid burning bridges with others. I've done this myself, in fact!

So what I'm saying is, that although the happy birthday message is annoying in the sense that it could make you wonder if N___ was going to reinitiate contact (I'd feel the same way), it probably didn't mean much from his/her perspective.
posted by mintchip at 8:09 PM on March 24

i agree generally with shaun uh. Sculpin, you make a good point but that is still reading (certain attitudes or assumptions) into the interchange above. You do provide a different perspective on how to view the relationship between OP and N______; i.e. that N______ has somehow been egging on the crush in an attempt to make it seem that OP is obsessively into him/her. However, let's be honest, N_____ did not force OP to post this question on AskMefi and did he/she know that OP had posted this question with all these details, it would only serve to confirm N_____'s presumption of OP's obsessiveness.

So all in all, I think friendships (romantic history or not) should be reciprocal. Relationships of any kind are not a one-way thing. So if the amount of investment into the relationship is not reciprocated, then it's not a friendship and I think you should move on.
posted by bengalibelle at 2:37 PM on March 26 [1 favorite]