Fifteen years ago I heard that we had ten years to turn the world around or it would be too late. When can I stop caring about the Environment?

March 23, 2009 11:37 AM

In high school, I remember a teacher who taped some news show and showed it to us in class and it said that we had like, ten years to turn the planet around or global warming and our First World lifestyle where ten percent of the planet caused fifty percent of the emissions or something would push us past the point of no return. Anyway, my question is, have we passed it yet? When can I stop caring about the Environment?

Is the planet finally, mercifully irretrievable?

It seems like every five years I see something on the news where it says we have only ten years left. How is this different than a doomsday cult that keeps revising when the End of the World is when the day comes and they are still there?

I am ready to stop recycling and re-using and reducing. I want to stop resenting The Environment for making me feel guilty when I live like a First Worlder, when some paper makes it into the trash, when I order in a Thai combo in its styrofoam container, when I throw away a computer monitor.

When can I say, "It's too late for us. Global Warming is a reality and it's here and there's nothing we can do to stop it... What a relief." And live my life, without having to be conscious about the choices I make with respect to how it impacts the Environment?

I know this is not politically correct.

posted by Sully to Society & Culture (29 answers total)

Only you make you feel guilty.
posted by maxpower at 11:39 AM on March 23, 2009 [1 favorite]

have we passed it yet?

No one knows for sure.

When can I stop caring about the Environment?

Never.

Even if, theoretically, we've passed the tipping point, there's no reason to accelerate the pace. Scientific projects also usually fail to account for breakthrough technologies that completely change the way we think about things.

The best thing you can do is seek out more informative sources rather than relying on TV news for what's what.
posted by mkultra at 11:47 AM on March 23, 2009 [1 favorite]

Different people make different predictions. Some are way to dire, and some say the problem doesn't exist. The fact that "Some news show" says something doesn't actually make it true, or even scientific consensus.

Also, there are other issues besides global warming. Even if the earth heats up 10 degrees and the polar ice caps melt, and all that land is covered in oceans there are still going to be separate issues of smog, landfills and the ozone layer to deal with. I'm sure that last one will be a big issue for people living on the new Antarctican republic.

Furthermore, until the oceans actually rise up and swallow Florida, there will always be something or other we can try to do.
posted by delmoi at 11:47 AM on March 23, 2009

Ugh. You can't. You don't get permission to ignore the consequences of your actions.

The upside is, its not all about you, either. If you're living a green lifestyle, if you're reducing, reusing, and recycling, if you're supporting the larger political will to find long term sustainable solutions to our problems, to create the necessary incentives to make recycling easier, to fund the research that will make the necessary technological advances to solve our greenhouse emissions problems, then you don't have to feel guilty.

Just do your best for pete's sake. It's not about making you feel guilty, its about trying to get everyone on board to do their part. If you're doing your part, you don't need to feel guilt.

Worry about the future if the rest of us fucks don't get our acts together is another thing.
posted by Reverend John at 11:47 AM on March 23, 2009

When can I say, "It's too late for us. Global Warming is a reality and it's here and there's nothing we can do to stop it... What a relief." And live my life, without having to be conscious about the choices I make with respect to how it impacts the Environment?

Right now.

[...]no matter what environmentalists do, our best efforts are insufficient. We’re losing badly, on every front. Those in power are hell-bent on destroying the planet, and most people don’t care.

Frankly, I don’t have much hope. But I think that’s a good thing. Hope is what keeps us chained to the system, the conglomerate of people and ideas and ideals that is causing the destruction of the Earth.
posted by symbollocks at 11:49 AM on March 23, 2009

Throwing away styrofoam doesn't have anything to do with global warming. Your "reusing and recycling" is pretty irrelevant to global warming, too. I'm not sure how you've gotten these things conflated in your head, but carbon emissions are a different--and much, much bigger--issue than recycling.

This paper should give you a good perspective on the issues involved in climate stabilization.
posted by mr_roboto at 11:55 AM on March 23, 2009

I understand where you're coming from. The doomsday handwringing of the early 90s turned me off environmentalism for 10 years, until one day I realized I didn't have to feel guilty anymore, about not recycling or anything else.

Then it was a lot less fun to procrastinate and now I do whatever I have the energy and resources to do to help make the world a little better in this and other respects. So congrats! You have my permission to do whatever you want.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 11:56 AM on March 23, 2009

When can I say, "It's too late for us. Global Warming is a reality and it's here and there's nothing we can do to stop it... What a relief." And live my life, without having to be conscious about the choices I make with respect to how it impacts the Environment?

Well, you can start doing that right now. Plenty of people have been doing it for years. But, as you note, it won't be 'politically correct.' Or any other kind of correct, for that matter.

What exactly do you want here? Do you want someone to tell you that we're doomed? There are plenty of people saying that, both in mainstream media and among environmental activists. Are you hoping that someone will validate your apathy and resentment? There are plenty of people saying that too. Turn on talk radio, or Fox News, or start reading wise-use progaganda.
posted by box at 11:59 AM on March 23, 2009 [1 favorite]

I am ready to stop recycling and re-using and reducing. I want to stop resenting The Environment for making me feel guilty when I live like a First Worlder, when some paper makes it into the trash, when I order in a Thai combo in its styrofoam container, when I throw away a computer monitor.

Listen, point of no return or not, there are things we do just to keep this place from becoming a shit hole NOW. Even if there is no climate change that we can do anything about, "recycling and re-using and reducing" is about dealing with increasingly larger piles of crap that can have direct and measurable effects on the areas around them. Personally I don't even take climate change into my decision making processes 99% of the time.

And if you want to live guilt-free... well, that's always a tough order when you look at the big picture, environmental issues considered or not. Can't help you with that one.
posted by cimbrog at 12:03 PM on March 23, 2009 [2 favorites]

there was actually a new scientific report on NPR about five(?) tipping points which we are rapidly approaching- points where certain amounts of environmental change will be irreversible. Maybe someone can find it.

If you don't want to personally care, just make that choice for yourself. A lot of people, like me, will think it's morally wrong, but oh well.
posted by drjimmy11 at 12:05 PM on March 23, 2009 [1 favorite]

I'm not sure if it's the consensus yet, but I've seen several mainstream scientific sources in the past year that believe climate change is now inevitable, and the scientific challenge now is how to deal with its impending effect on humanity.

But yeah, that doesn't mean that we can all go back to burning hydrocarbons like it was 1950 and throwing wild freon parties and whatever.
posted by qxntpqbbbqxl at 12:05 PM on March 23, 2009 [1 favorite]

If you clean up your truly appalling tags, I generously give you leave to live without guilt for the next month, hair spray and styrofoam be damned.

Seriously, you want to know if we've passed a tipping point? How can anyone tell you that?
posted by CunningLinguist at 12:06 PM on March 23, 2009

I know this is not politically correct.

What's even less correct, politically or otherwise is to act like someone else is making you do anything you don't want to do instead of deciding that you have choices to make in your life, almost all of which are acceptable given that you tolerate the consequences.

This is simpler to understand with bigger choices. You can choose not to wear your pajamas everywhere you go. This is, in most cases, not against the law but there's a pretty serious amount of social pressure to not do this. If you accept the social pressure and decide to ignore it, you can wear whatever you want.

Similarly, there are certain things about being environmentally conscious that are legislated [littering in many places. not turning your backyard into a dumping ground] and many others that are choices on some sort of continuum where you can be more or less environmentally conscious in the choices that you make. For everyone (save perhaps a few people who are very extreme in their beliefs) there are things besides the environment that go into the daily choices that they make. Maybe they can't afford organic food, maybe they need to travel in airplanes to keep their family fed, maybe they need a bigger car, maybe they have made other choices that make some pro-environment choices not genuine options to them. And so it goes. The best thing we can do for the environment is try our best, encourage other people to try and to encourage good legislation that will help (or legislatively convince) governments and corporations make pro-environment decisions.

When can I stop caring about the Environment?

When you move to the Moon. I know you're frustrated with all the doomsaying that people like to toss around in order to get people to understand the severity of the situation. I felt the same way about the recent US elections. However. You have to put yourself in a position where you are deputized to make the best choices for you and you feel that you have the ability to get the information you need in order to make those decisions.

If you want to litter, drive a gas guzzler, pour your waste oil into a hole in your backyard and eat all your meals off of paper plates and styrofoam cups, that's between you and your own personal moral advisor/religious potentate and/or family. Other people may tell you that you're being a bad community member and/or a bad environmental steward and they're probably right. However, they are not you.

And live my life, without having to be conscious about the choices I make with respect to how it impacts the Environment?

You can do that right now. You can live your life without being conscious of how your choices affect anyone or anything. It will just, I'm predicting, be a sad and lonely life. Your life, your choice.
posted by jessamyn at 12:07 PM on March 23, 2009 [10 favorites]

Projections and estimates for the end of the world are tricky, because it's supposed to take EVERYTHING into account, or enough to get a good approximation of The Beginning Of The End. Concerns about Peak Oil go back to the 1950s, and the end was nigh back then. But new facts come to light, and planet death is staved off for a while.

But is this about you being tired of working make less of an impact on the world, so to speak? Do what you want. Eco-minded hippies would wish that everyone rode bikes and lived near their work, bought from sustainable sources, and didn't need to jump on every trend that came along, but parts of that wish is unrealistic. Just remember every little thing helps, and someone will live here after you. If that means you feel guilty for taking home food in a styrofoam container, you can 1) bring your own reusable containers to restaurants, 2) ask the restaurants to change or 3) try to ignore your guilt.

On preview: see above.
posted by filthy light thief at 12:10 PM on March 23, 2009

I'm not suggesting in any way that the warnings should not be heeded, but impending doom / "it's almost too late" type warnings have been in environmentalist writings since the Middle Ages. I imagine this is in part because it's very difficult to predict the timing of such things, and because the human field of vision is quite small.

There's some great quotations in various books by the Nearings from older environmentalists that puts the age of this movement into context (since I think many people assume it's a modern idea).
posted by glider at 12:11 PM on March 23, 2009

Best answer: You can stop caring about the environment when you start shitting in the middle of your living room.
posted by adamrice at 12:16 PM on March 23, 2009 [18 favorites]

Don't do the right thing because you feel guilty. Do it because it is the right thing to do.
posted by BobbyDigital at 12:34 PM on March 23, 2009

I know this is not politically correct.

Yeah. It's also kind of stupid.

It's not like there's some magic line where, if we stop short of it, everything will be just fine, but if we cross that line we are all DOOMED TO DIE FOREVER OMG SO LETS PARTY.

Things will just get gradually worse, a little bit at a time.

You can make it a little bit more worse than it would otherwise have been, or you can make it a little bit less worse. You can choose to feel guilty about whichever choice you make, or not, but you can't pretend the choice doesn't matter.
posted by ook at 12:34 PM on March 23, 2009 [1 favorite]

Environmentalists, to me, are like a religion: your only salvation is to listen to them. So I understand why you're complaining. But you're being a baby about it; look at it pragmatically, instead. Doing things that are environmentally sound are, typically, about being more efficient. For example:

It takes less energy to recycle an aluminum can than it does to make it from scratch. So why not recycle them, instead of letting them sit in a landfill. Less energy consumed by aluminum companies means more for everyone else, which will reduce prices.

Driving a fuel efficient car uses less gas, which reduces demand, which will lead to a reduction in the cost of gas. And your fuel efficient car gets you where you're going just as well as your gas guzzler.

Recycling paper means that paper producers don't need to plant as many trees to replace those that they cut down, which will make your paper less expensive in the long run.

If you throw out less styrofoam and other non-recyclables, your city will need to send out fewer garbage trucks, which will save it money; this will result in saving you property taxes.

You see, the choices you make can be to your benefit too. In all these cases, if people follow advice that happens to be good for the environment, everyone will save money. Start small, and you'll see that it has no negative effect on your life. And maybe you'll save the world.

posted by Simon Barclay at 12:46 PM on March 23, 2009

It is worth pointing out that "fucked" is ill-defined. Nobody can really say how much warming we're going to get and how it's going to affect our ecosystems; how big the species die-off will be; whether we'll all starve because of it, or whether we'll simply adjust to a new normal in which things are shittier. The world ends all the time. It ended for the Romans and the Aztecs and the Lakota. It continues to end across the planet.

How do people cope when their world is shattered? For a lot of the cultures that were conquered, they saw it coming and they fought to the death and they died. Those that are left struggle to find meaning and lead wasted lives. As for us, we have no enemy to fight except ourselves. Hence, we all have this painful internal struggle. If you're no longer willing to fight, you can just stop. Live it up and go out in a blaze of glory. I can't fault you for it; if you really believe the fight is pointless (which it might be, again no-one can really say), then you should stop fighting.

I think, though, that given the absence of a conqueror, and the amount of resources we're pouring into the problem, a fast die-off is unlikely. We're more likely faced with a decline and an adjustment, for a few generations at least. In such cases, going out in a blaze of glory is anti-social, since it makes the adjustment more painful. You will become the enemy. Will that really be a relief?
posted by PercussivePaul at 12:56 PM on March 23, 2009 [6 favorites]

I personally think that global warming tipping points have been passed, yes, and it is now a runaway system, but you seem to think that this would allow you to dump heavy metals into your water table with a clear conscience. These issues are just not related, other than falling under the label of "environmental". If you've lost your hand, that doesn't mean you're not going to notice cutting off your foot.

No matter how bad things get - or how good - there will always be improvements that can be made, standards that can be raised. What you seek is to escape is the march of technology and the rise of civilization. Yes, it's a treadmill, and it's tiresome sometimes, but it's also the engine that brings a better future than what might have been.

To be human is to strive for a better tomorrow, regardless of failures of the past or the challenges of the future. We make our world.
posted by -harlequin- at 1:07 PM on March 23, 2009

Climate change is already happening, and will continue to happen for some time because of the extra CO2 and methane we've already pumped into the atmosphere. The longer before we reduce emissions, and the less we reduce emissions by, the worse the change will be in the long run. One worry is that once we raise the global temperature sufficiently, because of changes to the albedo, large methane emissions from permafrost melting etc we will then see rapid and extensive change that is effectively going to happen no matter what we do. This is difficult to predict because change is slow, and is measurable over decades, not months. Some think we're already past such a tipping point, or very close to it.

However, even assuming we are past it, everything we don't do to slow or reverse the process will eventually make it even worse. There's no point at which we can sit back and just say 'fuck it', if you care about making it worse for our descendents, anyway.

There are plus points. Damage to the ozone layer has been greatly reduced by actions to ban CFCs, and it has recovered somewhat. What we do now individually, and as nations, does make a difference further down the road.

Recycling is not about global warming, but about conserving increasingly rare resources. Oil IS running out. Peak production keeps getting pushed out as new reserves and techniques for extraction are developed, but we WILL start to run out of it sooner rather than later. Reducing our plastic use conserves more oil for the long run, higher fuel efficencies, renewable energy sources, all of these help extend the time we can carry on using all the wonderfully useful products we make from a limited resource. There's a lot of aluminium ore in the ground, but recycling uses a lot less energy than making new aluminium, and again that's less pollution from coal power stations, and less oil burnt in power stations.

Pollution again is a good thing to reduce; cleaner air, water and food leads directly to longer lifespans and higher quality of life.

Much as we might like to go back to a life where ignorance is bliss, we know the damage we're doing, even if we don't know all the ramifications just yet. But if we sit back and do nothing, it will be our children, grandchildren and great grandchildren who will curse us for not doing more when we had the chance.
posted by ArkhanJG at 1:34 PM on March 23, 2009

It's worthless to read into doomsday predictions. People have been predicting it for eons and it's safe to say they've all been wrong.
A quick google revealed this site that lists a bunch of them. Interesting read, albeit last updated in 2005.
posted by JuiceBoxHero at 2:05 PM on March 23, 2009

nature will always be here, doing what it does best: adapting to the prevailing conditions.

we humans like to think we can "destroy" the environment, but all we can really do is change the conditions that make it hospitible to us. if you think the world would be better off without humans, there are many ways to make that a reality. the end won't come in any of our lifetimes, but it will come one way or another. it'll just be faster if we work at it.

so, have at it.
posted by klanawa at 3:14 PM on March 23, 2009 [1 favorite]

You appear to be succumbing to the illusion that there's going to be a Big Disaster, before which everything was fine and after which everything will be like Mad Max. Whoever it was who said the thing about a bang and a whimper was, I think, closer to the truth. People constantly warning about the Big Disaster are just giving other people license to continue being irresponsible because, hey, the Big Disaster hasn't happened, and maybe won't happen.
"Climate change" is an unfortunate term. The climate is always changing. The earth is always changing. Everything is always changing. Stability is a myth. If you want to be wasteful and irresponsible, what's stopping you? The way the modern world looks to me, it would just be putting you directly into the mainstream.
Humans are going to get wiped out eventually. Something like 90% (?) of all species that have always existed are extinct. Humans are no different.
My summation: being frugal and thinking about the consequences of your actions is good for your character, and people should strive for these things no matter what the effect of their actions on "the environment" or on anything else outside of themselves. Being wasteful, thoughtless, and self-indulgent leads to weakness, shoddy thinking, bad health, and generally ugly surroundings. And guilt is good for nothing, and primarily a leftover from the days when Christianity dominated most (Western) peoples' lives.
But to answer your question more directly: 3:41 PM, April 17, 2024. After that, forget it.
posted by crazylegs at 5:44 PM on March 23, 2009 [1 favorite]

If you're one of us, you won't feel guilty either way. Otherwise, you've got to cope with it, I suppose.
posted by malusmoriendumest at 8:32 PM on March 23, 2009

I have definitely felt the same way -- angry about environmental guilt being constantly perpetuated. So what follows are some rambling thoughts I've had on the topic since I first felt that way years ago. The short summary is that your idea -- live as though you know all this disaster is almost certain to come true -- isn't that bad.

One place we do differ is that I believe the projections. Even the infamous Limits to Growth projections are being basically borne out by reality (thus far). If you watch closely, people aren't predicting the same problems over and over; the predictions and concerns change. It goes from "omg, there might be no spring salmon run" to "omg, the spring run is gone and now there might be no fall run either" (or whatever; that's a fake example). Field data is coming back worse than projected. Not always, you know, but enough that I don't think these scientists are delusional pessimists.*

Does this suck? Yeah, totally. And feeling torn between living my life in a way that fits with everyone else, and thinking it causes all this bad stuff? Yeah, it sucks. And watching things go wrong and not being able to do anything about it? Yeah, it sucks. I don't know about for you, what's behind that anger and guilt, but for me, the anger was more like "stop talking about this!" (I think that's called "denial"), and there was also sadness and frustration and powerlessness. That probably sucks the worst: this angry sense of powerlessness about certain things I really wish I could stop but don't even know where to begin with it. The Love of Nature and The End of The World is an amazing book about the emotional dimensions of the environmental crisis.

But I also got a huge weight lifted when I began to think realistically about what I could do about the problem, and what I really just couldn't do. Yeah, you can always do more -- you can always use less energy and do more politically, sure. But you can't stop the juggernaut of modern civilization single-handedly either. In fact, I often now tell myself "assume global warming is real; assume all this stuff is going to happen in the next 40-60 years," and ask, "now how do you want to live?" Most of the time, I want to live in my professional environmentalist world, printing out documents with toner and riding in elevators trying to do something about this whole mess, even if my benefit is incremental and meanwhile I'm part of the problem. I don't want to drop out; I want to feel like a part of this social world, even if I'm one tiny part trying (with many other tiny parts) to turn around the asteroid battleship. Sometimes when I ask "how do you want to live?" I think "I'm moving to a farm somewhere that water won't be too scarce," or I think "screw all this work, if bad stuff is going to happen anyway, I'm going to go spend my days learning the guitar." And even most of my daily decision get filtered through the "assume it's happening anyway" filter. That means that almost everything ends up being deliberate decisions ("I am working even though all that color printing probably just added some sort of heavy metal to the water table" "I'm not eating fish because I'm so sad about what's happening to the oceans and can't feel like I'm contributing" "I am driving right now even though I'm adding 5 pounds of carbon to the air as we speak"), and they all feel immensely better than accepting amorphous guilt for some enormous disaster but then trying to ignore it.

The short summary: go ahead and live your life as though almost all of what you fear about the environment is going to come true in your lifetime.

* The bats and frogs seem pretty fucked, that's for sure.
posted by salvia at 11:05 PM on March 23, 2009 [1 favorite]

In the 1980s we had to worry about nuclear annihilation of everybody. Global warming is just not much of anything to stress out about.
posted by Kirklander at 10:17 PM on March 24, 2009

odinsdream: As someone who recycles, uses water and electricity sparingly, etc., I can't think of the last time I said to myself, while tossing an empty beer bottle in the recycling tub: "Stupid environmentalists! I would so much rather put this in the trash can 10 feet away. This is so dumb."

The fact that recycling is affecting you so strongly seems to suggest that you're either doing something wrong, or you're just overly sensitive to it for some other reason which isn't clear.

How do you get the bottle-reclycing-tub to the bottle-recycling people? You are right, it does not take much effort at all to sort the trash at home. I have to walk or cycle (since I don't own a car, of course) a few hundred yards to a few miles to get everything to their respective recycling points. I am really glad that we have the opportunity to recycle, but at the same time, it is an extra chore, that does take up significantly more time than just throwing everything in the trash. It also takes up quite a bit more space in my house. I wonder what I am doing wrong?
posted by davar at 2:24 AM on March 25, 2009