Figure out what's important to you

March 21, 2009 12:21 PM

I just found out that I got into University of Pittsburgh for their Masters in Information Science program to start in the fall. I also got accepted to DePaul for Human Computer Interaction, which I am already enrolled in and am starting in 2 weeks. So now I have a big decision and I was wondering if you guys had any insights into this dilemma.

Background: I decided to look into human-computer interaction programs because I realized that I'm interested in making things that are useful to people. I know that sounds vague, but it really frustrates me when the non-techie people I know can't get as much use and enjoyment as I can out of technology because they stumble over the interface and having to learn too many steps by rote and stuff like that. Or like at my old job when our stats suffered because the systems designed for collecting information never got used because they were just too hard to manage out in the field. I don't have a computer-science background, it's more like general humanities/media studies/anthropology stuff. But I'd like to wind up with an ability to build something useful from the programming to the GUI design. Is that too ambitious?

I already live in Chicago so staying at DePaul would be a convenience. I think it's a fine school, but I don't think it has the prestige or the "national name recognition" factor that University of Pittsburgh has. Is that right?

Looking over the two school's course requirements (Depaul, Pitt), I'm afraid that as a DePaul graduate I would be at a disadvantage having to compete with a graduate of Pitt . Or would I? I'm not really sure. Who can I ask who would be able to tell me this?

Pittsburgh is way more expensive than DePaul but they have better financial aid and more opportunities for assistantship programs, I think. I just sent an email to them to ask them about this. I don't know if I'll be eligible for aid for this fall. I haven't done my FAFSA yet cause I didn't think I was getting in.

Also, moving to Pittsburgh would be a big deal as I would be taking my S.O. with me so I have to be really sure I'm doing the right thing.

posted by amethysts to education (30 comments total)

This is totally bias, but University of Pittsburgh is in the HOOD. Seriously, completely not safe area. So if you're happy with where you are in Chicago, chalk it up to how much moving sucks and how much you like not having your car broken into on a weekly basis.
posted by banannafish at 12:25 PM on March 21

I have no idea how prestigious these two universities are in comparison to each other, but assuming Pittsburgh is prestigious and has national name recognition (I'm not in the nation so don't ask me) is that something that's important to you? I would personally be inclined towards the more prestigious school, but I don't think that's the universally correct answer.

"Looking over the two school's course requirements (Depaul, Pitt), I'm afraid that as a DePaul graduate I would be at a disadvantage having to compete with a graduate of Pitt . Or would I? I'm not really sure. Who can I ask who would be able to tell me this?"

Do you mean in terms of the difficulty of your new course? If so I would assume that the more prestigious university probably is going to ask more of you than your old one did, but if they accepted you then they must think you're capable of it, so it's just a question of how hard you're willing to work to keep up. I think it's easy to worry about this kind of thing but ultimately if you approach it in the right way it's not going to be a problem.

Are they assuming any existing programming skills for Pittsburgh? If so (and assuming you don't have any already as a humanities graduate) you'd have half a year to give yourself some foundation in this, which might make you feel better about competiting with other graduates.

I'd also consider how invested you are in the city you live in in terms of your nearby friends and citylife, and investigate whether Pittsburgh seems like a cool place to live. I recently moved with my S.O. across a different (smaller) country and it's worked out fine, but a difficult decision to make. Good luck. :)
posted by Kirn at 12:33 PM on March 21

I respectfully disagree with bananafish on the evaluation of Oakland (where Pitt's main campus lies). While a lot of the houses in South Oakland are a bit run down, crime in Pittsburgh is not exceptionally high for an urban area and no higher than Chicago:

http://www.cityrating.com/citycrime.asp?city=Pittsburgh&state=PA
http://www.cityrating.com/citycrime.asp?city=Chicago&state=IL

Those are city-wide stats, obviously, but Oakland is far from the most crime-ridden part of the city. Grad students also tend to live out in Shadyside and Squirrel Hill, which are even tonier, lower crime neighborhoods.

That being said, reputation is a weird, ambiguous thing in assessing what anyone will actually get out of a school, but an invaluable thing to have when looking for a job in, say, the worst economy in decades.
posted by el_lupino at 12:36 PM on March 21 [1 favorite]

This is totally bias, but University of Pittsburgh is in the HOOD. Seriously, completely not safe area.

Um, what? No. I was a graduate student at University of Pittsburgh for three years. I never once felt unsafe anywhere on campus. I agree that there are areas in South Oakland that are less than nice. The parking isn't great, and there are some slummy apartments down there. However, that has nothing to do with safety.

I parked my car there. I walked around at night there. There are usually tons of people around and there's a reasonable amount of police presence. Whatever you decide, don't let the issue of safety in Oakland deter you. Plus, as others mention, very few grad students live in the undergrad land of Oakland. My home was always Squirrel Hill, and I highly recommend that area. Plus, just so you know, everyone I know who has moved here absolutely loves it -- even people moving from very large urban areas. It's a really great town, and I'd stay here if I could.
posted by theantikitty at 12:44 PM on March 21

Yeah I'm not worried about the safety issue. Also I just moved to Chicago so I'm not very invested in friends or work (I got a job at my school) and neither is my boyfriend. I just feel like if it's a real advantage, then I want to have a real advantage. If they're about the same, then I'd just as soon stay where I am. But I don't know how to objectively evaluate the pros and cons or where to get the information from.
posted by amethysts at 12:48 PM on March 21

Cost of living is really low in Pittsburgh, so some of the expense of moving and higher tuition might be offset by lower rent or mortgage, food prices, etc. That might be worth looking into and factoring in when you make your decisions.

It sounds like what you really need is a comparison of the program and I can't help there, but if you have questions about living in Pittsburgh, feel free to drop me a line any time.
posted by Stacey at 1:29 PM on March 21

If you are a sports enthusiast, both schools are members of the Big East conference. The Pitt Panthers have a long-standing tradition of excellence in football while Depaul does not field a team. In basketball, the Big East's forte, Pitt went through the recently completed Big East season tied for 2nd place and received a #1 seed in the NCAA tournament, while Depaul finished the season in the cellar of the league standings. Obviously, if you are no sports fan, never mind. But if it becomes a complete tossup for you as to which school to attend, you are likely to have more rooting success in Pittsburgh.
posted by netbros at 1:34 PM on March 21

I don't know anything about DePaul, but I'd go to Pitt both for Pitt's reputation and for it's proximity to CMU.

And Pittsburgh is a great place to live.
posted by nnk at 2:23 PM on March 21

The going slogan when I worked at Carnegie Mellon-- down the street from Pitt, where you will probably have chances to cross-enroll if you'd like-- was "Pittsburgh's a great place to raise your kids," usually said with great derision by folks who'd like a bit more nightlife.

I moved away nine years ago, but Pitt certainly was nowhere near "in the hood." (Bias: I am in Los Angeles and I have seen THE storied hood of film and TV-- Compton, etc.-- and have been places like Southeast DC and so on. Pittsburgh was emphatically not that.) Pittsburgh has the hood, but it's not in Oakland, Shadyside, or Squirrel Hill. South Oakland pretty much qualifies as "student ghetto," and I still walked around there at 3am on my own and didn't feel menaced or anything. The one time I had a crime occur against my property and found the cops totally unhelpful, it was in Pitcairn-- 30 miles out, town of about 3000 people if that, and basically just bumfuck nowhere, a speedbump between CMU and the Monroeville Mall. You will probably never, ever go there.

Also, Pitt has a very good reputation for general computer science-- a friend of mine graduated from Pitt CS and went on to an excellent career as a data mining guy and general information management wizard. Having CMU down the street kind of makes it one larger CS-focused district, and you'll find lots of people interested in HCI there-- CMU has their very own HCI institute, for instance, which will give you exposure to lots of colloquia, seminars, and talks in your field.
posted by fairytale of los angeles at 2:24 PM on March 21

These are all factors to consider, yes, but perhaps focus on the actual programs and what they can do for you (and vice versa). I think it's fair to say they are both career-oriented programs, so you may be putting the cart before the horse if you base your decision on the school's neighborhood or sports teams. Are you more interested in HCI? Will that degree point you to a life you'll be happy with? You go into some detail about this in your post; none at all about what led you to apply to the MIS course of study. FWIW, IMHO and YMMV, but humanities-type people with MIS degrees are all but selling pencils on street corners these days.
posted by scratch at 2:31 PM on March 21

I don't really care about neighborhoods or sports teams at all so I'm not sure where this derail is coming from. Also I want to be clear that when it says MIS it's not just code for Library Science (I'm not interested in library science). Both programs deal with usability.
posted by amethysts at 2:39 PM on March 21

If your interest is in HCI then the premier program is the one at Carnegie Mellon. Another well-regarded master's program focusing on HCI is at Georgia Tech.

If you're going to uproot yourself geographically, shell out money for the graduate degree, etc., then I wouldn't do it for either Pitt or DePaul.
posted by needled at 3:12 PM on March 21

Taking a step back, I am curious as to how you selected the graduate programs you are now weighing - because they definitely would not have been the first places I would have thought of for HCI. What I would have suggested is to take a look at the CHI proceedings from the past couple of years (e.g., CHI 2009 program) and see which schools were doing interesting research or just plain getting a lot published at CHI. Those would have been the schools I would have targeted - schools well-represented at CHI in general are the ones producing interesting and well-regarded work, and that also draw the attention of potential employers.
posted by needled at 3:27 PM on March 21

Is that too ambitious?

Not at all. That's what I do, in fact. But I will say that there's not as direct a route from there to "job" as you might hope. I would have a hard time retracing my own steps, let alone advise someone else on the matter. But I will say that the more experience you can get working on real, actual projects, the better.

I think it's a fine school, but I don't think it has the prestige or the "national name recognition" factor that University of Pittsburgh has. Is that right?

Sorry, I disagree… not with the U. of P v DePaul debate. I just think that the question is almost entirely irrelevant. Only a handful of places have the cache' to help secure a job, and even then they are fairly overrated. At least where I work (financial industry) actual project experience is a couple orders of magnitude more important than where you went to school.

That's not to say there aren't plenty of other reasons why you might prefer one over the other—cost, location, etc. But not prestige or "national name recognition".
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 3:41 PM on March 21

I came in here to chime in with needled. What is most important is the reputation of the degree itself, not the university. Every university has strengths and weaknesses in different courses. And as needled suggests, the way to work out which school is best is to look at what the professional association recommends.

I'm a member of SIGCHI and other associations, and looking at research coming out of a school is how I pick courses. There are also ACM and SIGCHI groups on LinkedIn, and I would recommend joining those and asking members for opinions.

I'm thinking about possibly-maybe doing PhD in the future, and this is the method I'm using to think about schools.

If it's all too late and you have to stay with one of the programs you're in, I think you may as well stay where you are.
posted by wingless_angel at 4:16 PM on March 21

As a current Pitt grad student (not MIS), I am going to join the cavalcade and call out bananafish. She is wrong, wrong, wrong.

Having moved to Pittsburgh from a ways away to go to grad school, my advice to you is to visit the city and the school, if at all possible, to see if you and your SO like the place.

Unfortunately, I know nothing about the program you were accepted to (congratulations, by the way), but if I can be of any help/assistance in making your decision, or if you'd like to ask me any further questions about moving to/living in Pittsburgh or attending Pitt, feel free to MeFiMail me.
posted by diggerroo at 4:52 PM on March 21

I'm a graduate of the School of Computer Science at CMU, but I took most of my linguistics courses at Pitt. There is a great partnership between both schools that allows you to take classes at both without additional charge. That's the great thing about both of those schools being so close together, you get the best of both worlds.

I moved here from DC and I never imagined that I would like it as much as I do. The cost of living is a definite plus. I bought my house on a slim research assistant salary. It's in a good neighborhood and featured a nice walk through the park on the way to school.
posted by Alison at 4:57 PM on March 21

My husband is a senior research scientist in an HCI-related field, and here is what he says:

"I've never heard of either program, but then again I'm pretty much of a snob. The advantage of going to Pitt is that maybe you could take classes at CMU--there's someone there named Bonnie John whose work is really strong. Actually, if it was me, I would try to get into the CMU program, because that's one of the best programs in the world."

You may take that for what it's worth. Husband works at one of the Big Three defense-department think tanks and does a lot of hiring of folks at both the Master's and Ph. D. level.
posted by Sidhedevil at 5:06 PM on March 21

Guys, I can only go to where I got into.
posted by amethysts at 5:08 PM on March 21

One of the things that I used to evaluate Masters programs was their curriculum, though it looks like you've already done that a little bit. Which is more interesting to you? To be honest, from my quick glance, the DePaul curriculum seems to be more focused on Human-Computer Interaction. The program at Pitt is more focused on information systems, not necessarily usability, interaction design, or HCI, which seem to be your areas of interest.

Maybe you'll hit some of the MeFi crowd with some experience in HCI Masters degrees in later comments, but I work across the hall from CMU's HCI program. If you want me to try and pop in to ask someone a question, I wouldn't mind a chance to introduce myself to them. MeFi mail me if you want.
posted by ADoubtfulTrout at 5:42 PM on March 21 [1 favorite]

As I said in my post, I don't have the computer science background which CMU requires. Yes, everyone knows it's greatest school in the whole world, but I don't have a chane of getting in there. I have to work with what I've got. Yes, as none of you seem to believe, I DID do research, I DID find programs that interest me, and this is what I got into. I DID look at both curriculums, and they BOTH interest me (hence the question) but as I said in my post, I need help evaluating them, or a point towards someone who CAN help me evaluate them.
posted by amethysts at 5:53 PM on March 21

Shorter answer
De Paul - maybe.

Longer answer
Where do you want to be when you graduate? It sounds like industry, not academia. So you could contact the admissions folks in each dept. and ask where their Masters' level grads end up (if they keep those sort of stats).

If you want a professional degree for a career in HCI, I would consider the HCI degree. It will teach you how to do HCI. If you go to Pitt you will do a lot of theoretical and technical IS stuff, (which it seems you're not really interested in?). Further, the Pitt page you linked to doesn't even mention HCI.

You can have a qualitatively-based career in HCI - e.g. ethnographically/anthropologically based - however the DePaul course does not seem to offer that training, at least from a brief skim. Much HCI work is (still) cognitively informed, so you need to be at least willing to get into some psychology. They do have a few user-centered design courses.
posted by carter at 7:34 PM on March 21

amethysts,
It is a bit tough to figure out how to help you evaluate the programs without some specifics about what is in the respective curricula and how they relate to your goals.

I don't think either school has enough reputation that it is worth making the decision on that alone. The real value is what you will get while you are there.

As an admittedly biased undergrad alumnus of CMU, I'd say you shouldn't sell short the opportunity to be doing grad work in the same city. In addition to the possible opportunity to cross enroll some courses, you could be right on hand for the lecture series, demonstrations, etc. that accompany a program like that. It may be that other similar opportunities exist in Chicago, I wouldn't know.

Otherwise, I'd encourage looking at the curriculum in terms of exactly what you would be studying every semester. Choose the program that excites you more. Rest comfortable that the adventure and quality of Pittsburgh would balance well against the hassle of making the move. The value of the decision will be in how the program matches your cares, because ultimately that will feed into how much of your heart and effort you put into it.
posted by meinvt at 8:32 PM on March 21

I think what I and other people are trying to say is, why do you feel compelled to attend either program when it's not clear how they will contribute towards your career goals? What is your ROI for degrees from DePaul or Pitt? carter has a great suggestion, to ask the departments for placement statistics. if they are not willing to or can't provide this information, it would be a big red flag for me. The concern that I and I think other commenters have is that after you have invested significant time and expense for the degree, you may emerge no closer to your career goals than before graduate school.

If you really are not sure about the two graduate programs you have mentioned, one option is to defer admission. During this time you can investigate the two programs further, or do what's necessary to become an attractive candidate to one of the top programs. This could include taking an introductory programming course in a community college.

As for CMU, I know several people who did the HCI master's at CMU without CS backgrounds. These are people who had degrees in Psychology, or even Design. If you are really concerned about your lack of CS background, then consider iSchools that offer the HCI specialization, such as the School of Information at the University of Michigan. The course offerings and internship requirements allow people to make the transition to HCI jobs even without prior CS or HCI work experience.
posted by needled at 8:39 PM on March 21

I know it's a bit late, but CMU doesn't require any specific degree. They only require three prereqs. I've also heard numerous instances where all three requirements don't have to be met (it even says this on the website, but only specifically for design) -- someone even told me of a music major who had none of the prereqs but still got in (who knows if it's true?). Although it does seem that 80+% of the people who get into the program are either Computer Science, Computer Engineering, or Cognitive Science.

I have a totally unrelated major to computers yet I'm still planning on applying to the program. But in the meanwhile I'm taking a ton of programming/graphic design classes on the side until the next round of applications.

I've likewise done tons of research looking into HCI schools but have not heard much (if any) about those two programs. I don't think you'll get much information from general message boards/websites like this. I second wingless angel's idea to look into the LinkedIn group, or you can also try on some Facebook groups, or even SIGCHI's own website. You'll also want to try to contact any alumni of both schools -- just ask the school for this info or look for people on LinkedIn.
posted by NeoLeo at 12:00 AM on March 22

Do you have any ideas on where you would like to live after school? If you are planning to stay in the Chicago area, then stick with DePaul, because it has the name recognition and reputation *in the Chicago area* that Pitt wouldn't. DePaul has a very active alumni association, which would be helpful in networking. Their CDM school is well-regarded, well-respected and has a long history of graduating (and hiring) good people.

I may be a little biased. MS from CTI (the old name), Class of '02.
posted by SuperSquirrel at 8:30 AM on March 22

This is totally bias, but University of Pittsburgh is in the HOOD. Seriously, completely not safe area.

I would disagree with this. I went to Pitt for two years and walked all around downtown and used the city bus system extensively. I lived in Southside. While the city isn't necessarily safe, I wouldn't say I was afraid at any time walking around the main campus area downtown, and I had a mix of night and day classes.
posted by odinsdream at 10:22 AM on March 22

Oh, and on-topic: one of my roommates did MIS at Pitt. Send me a mefimail if you'd like his contact information.
posted by odinsdream at 10:23 AM on March 22

Guys, I can only go to where I got into.

You could go to one of those programs, and then move on to a more competitive program. Or you could take a year off and take the courses that would enable you to get into a more competitive program, and then apply to one of those programs. Graduate programs take new applicants every year.
posted by Sidhedevil at 10:57 AM on March 22

If you want to like where you live, stay in Chicago. I'm in the middle of a year in Pittsburgh (thankfully I'm moving back to Boston in July) and Pittsburgh is just lame. If you like to eat out, you'll find much better food in Chicago. However, I do like in a nice neighboorhood in Pittsburgh (Shadyside), although there are still many houses with upholstered sofas on the porch. They don't call it 'Pennlsylatucky' for nothing.

As for the programs, I don't know much about either. My guess is that their reputations are equal. Someone from my bachelor's program did go on to DePaul and was able to get a job. So, at least that's one data point for you.

I have a B.S. and M.S. in Human Factors Engineering from another school and haven't really heard much about those two.

However, if you're interested in industry, I don't think it will matter as much. As someone who's been in the position to hire usability and design people, what matters to me is if someone is smart, motivated, and knows what they are talking about. If someone had a degree from Yale or whatnot, it didn't really make it more likely that I'd want to talk to them.

So, I'd focus on the particular courses that each program offers and make your decision based on that.
posted by reddot at 4:22 PM on March 23