I will not come back from London in a body bag!
March 13, 2009 3:36 PM Subscribe
How can I convince my parents that it's not dangerous for 20-year-old women to travel overseas to at least a handful of locations, given common sense?
I'm a 20-year-old female student who wants to travel overseas at least once during undergrad. Dad doesn't seem to be concerned. Mom, however, is having none of it unless I have a traveling companion of some sort, which frankly I'm not concerned about, and my particular circumstances don't make finding a travel companion easy (the only person who I would conceivably travel anywhere with is in Romania, and Mom demands I not be alone on even the overseas flight.)
I mean, it can't conceivably be life-threatening to visit London or Paris. Pyongyang without a tour guide, maybe. But London or Paris or Athens? Shit where people my age travel solo YEARLY and come back healthy and happy?
There are other issues Mom has that compound this, but let's focus on Mom's inability to see that it's really okay to travel solo to some places as a 20-year-old. What data can I give her on solo female traveling? She's not so blinkered as to not listen to facts, in most cases.
I'm a 20-year-old female student who wants to travel overseas at least once during undergrad. Dad doesn't seem to be concerned. Mom, however, is having none of it unless I have a traveling companion of some sort, which frankly I'm not concerned about, and my particular circumstances don't make finding a travel companion easy (the only person who I would conceivably travel anywhere with is in Romania, and Mom demands I not be alone on even the overseas flight.)
I mean, it can't conceivably be life-threatening to visit London or Paris. Pyongyang without a tour guide, maybe. But London or Paris or Athens? Shit where people my age travel solo YEARLY and come back healthy and happy?
There are other issues Mom has that compound this, but let's focus on Mom's inability to see that it's really okay to travel solo to some places as a 20-year-old. What data can I give her on solo female traveling? She's not so blinkered as to not listen to facts, in most cases.
Unless you are materially beholden to your parents, just go. Parents, and perhaps mothers in particular, can be protective of their children to the point of irrationality. Which is understandable, but still irrational.
posted by adamrice at 3:48 PM on March 13, 2009
posted by adamrice at 3:48 PM on March 13, 2009
Response by poster: I'm materially beholden to my parents in that if I traveled overseas solo, Mom would threaten to pull my tuition.
posted by kldickson at 3:49 PM on March 13, 2009
posted by kldickson at 3:49 PM on March 13, 2009
go to the Lonely planet websites and have her read thru the reviews, a lot of them are written by single women who are still traveling or have recently finished their traveling, you can also post a note on their bulletin board seeking a travel partner
posted by kanemano at 3:50 PM on March 13, 2009
posted by kanemano at 3:50 PM on March 13, 2009
Mom isn't being reasonable, so trying to reason with her isn't reasonable.
1. Get a fake traveling companion. Once over there you go your separate ways. Have fun. Come back alive (this part is very important). Repeated as needed. Tell her the truth when you're 35 and laugh like crazy.
2. Get a real traveling companion. Seriously, it's can fun to travel to a strange place with a friend. You're happy, your friend is happy, mom is happy.
Your fighting with her on something you don't need to fight about.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 3:52 PM on March 13, 2009 [1 favorite]
1. Get a fake traveling companion. Once over there you go your separate ways. Have fun. Come back alive (this part is very important). Repeated as needed. Tell her the truth when you're 35 and laugh like crazy.
2. Get a real traveling companion. Seriously, it's can fun to travel to a strange place with a friend. You're happy, your friend is happy, mom is happy.
Your fighting with her on something you don't need to fight about.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 3:52 PM on March 13, 2009 [1 favorite]
I mean, it can't conceivably be life-threatening to visit London or Paris.
Not to you, it can't. She's your mother. They worry. My mother (who doesn't even like me that much) regularly calls me to tell me about some awful, random thing she heard happen to a woman who was about my age/living in a city like me/meeting men via online dating, as I have.
Your best bet is to leave this alone for now. Don't spend all your time trying to bring her to your side.
It sounds like this is all a theoretical idea at this point (Rule No. 210 for living: Do not have arguments about things that aren't even issues yet.)
When you've saved the money (and since you want to go, you should save some money), chosen your location and set a date, sit down with your mother and bring along some online stories of other young women who have done what you're about to do ... Regale her with tales of how safe they were and how they returned in one piece.
Oh, and for the record ... Rule No. 211 for living: You are 20. You do not know everything.
posted by notjustfoxybrown at 3:53 PM on March 13, 2009 [3 favorites]
Not to you, it can't. She's your mother. They worry. My mother (who doesn't even like me that much) regularly calls me to tell me about some awful, random thing she heard happen to a woman who was about my age/living in a city like me/meeting men via online dating, as I have.
Your best bet is to leave this alone for now. Don't spend all your time trying to bring her to your side.
It sounds like this is all a theoretical idea at this point (Rule No. 210 for living: Do not have arguments about things that aren't even issues yet.)
When you've saved the money (and since you want to go, you should save some money), chosen your location and set a date, sit down with your mother and bring along some online stories of other young women who have done what you're about to do ... Regale her with tales of how safe they were and how they returned in one piece.
Oh, and for the record ... Rule No. 211 for living: You are 20. You do not know everything.
posted by notjustfoxybrown at 3:53 PM on March 13, 2009 [3 favorites]
Whatever you do, don't let her see the movie Taken.
posted by InsanePenguin at 3:53 PM on March 13, 2009 [3 favorites]
posted by InsanePenguin at 3:53 PM on March 13, 2009 [3 favorites]
I was about 20 years old when I backpacked through Europe "by myself." I say that because I started off on my own, but met great people along the way and ended up traveling with them from point to point. Over the course of a month, I was probably technically on my own for only a few days. I started in London, where I had been doing a semester abroad, and went to Greece, Italy, Germany, the Netherlands, etc. It was a life-changing experience.
There were a few moments that were a little risky in Rome and on the ferry to Greece, but the same thing may have happened if I was in New York or Los Angeles. Because you're on foreign soil are you necessarily more in danger? Apparently it's not even safe to sit on the porch and talk to your neighbor in a small town in Alabama.
Fast forward 25 years and I can honestly say that experience helped change my life on so many different levels. Do it. You will be a better person for it, for good or for bad.
posted by HeyAllie at 3:53 PM on March 13, 2009
There were a few moments that were a little risky in Rome and on the ferry to Greece, but the same thing may have happened if I was in New York or Los Angeles. Because you're on foreign soil are you necessarily more in danger? Apparently it's not even safe to sit on the porch and talk to your neighbor in a small town in Alabama.
Fast forward 25 years and I can honestly say that experience helped change my life on so many different levels. Do it. You will be a better person for it, for good or for bad.
posted by HeyAllie at 3:53 PM on March 13, 2009
I agree with aubilenon that statistics or other resources are unlikely to get her all the way to feeling good about the trip. Unless you'd be asking them to pay your way, I think you need to go ahead and do it even without your mom's blessing.
I did a solo Europe trip, hostels and all, in my late 20s. My sister was certain I'd end up dead also, but it was totally fine, as I knew it would be. Like you say, common sense is important.
If you think it would be helpful for her to see stories of other women who travel the world solo, have her check out journeywoman.com.
posted by cabingirl at 3:53 PM on March 13, 2009
I did a solo Europe trip, hostels and all, in my late 20s. My sister was certain I'd end up dead also, but it was totally fine, as I knew it would be. Like you say, common sense is important.
If you think it would be helpful for her to see stories of other women who travel the world solo, have her check out journeywoman.com.
posted by cabingirl at 3:53 PM on March 13, 2009
Well, whatever you do, do not let her watch Taken (unless your father is Liam Neeson).
But on a more serious note I agree that you are dealing with a slightly irrational fear from your mom here, and that it is going to be hard to 'convince' her that it'll be okay. I mean if doesn't want you to be alone on the overseas flight...what could ever happen on the plane? I think maybe your best bet is to focus not on convincing her it is safe, but rather that this is something really important that you feel you need to do, and that you would feel a lot better about doing it if you had her support but ultimately some things you gotta do. Tell her you'll call her regularly etc. It depends on how long you are going for and what you plan on doing over there.
posted by atmosphere at 3:56 PM on March 13, 2009 [1 favorite]
But on a more serious note I agree that you are dealing with a slightly irrational fear from your mom here, and that it is going to be hard to 'convince' her that it'll be okay. I mean if doesn't want you to be alone on the overseas flight...what could ever happen on the plane? I think maybe your best bet is to focus not on convincing her it is safe, but rather that this is something really important that you feel you need to do, and that you would feel a lot better about doing it if you had her support but ultimately some things you gotta do. Tell her you'll call her regularly etc. It depends on how long you are going for and what you plan on doing over there.
posted by atmosphere at 3:56 PM on March 13, 2009 [1 favorite]
Well, your Mom's got you stuck between a rock and a hard place.
How about a summer study abroad program? You'd have some structure and supervision, but enough freedom to do what you want most evenings and weekends. They can be kind of pricey compared to traveling on your own, but maybe you can guilt your parents into paying the difference since they won't let you go by yourself.
Also, you might try mentioning that this kind of hysterical controlling behavior does not speak well for your long-term relationship with your parents and that at some point they'll need to cut the strings or risk alienating you completely. But that might not help with the plans to go to Europe.
posted by bluejayk at 3:56 PM on March 13, 2009
How about a summer study abroad program? You'd have some structure and supervision, but enough freedom to do what you want most evenings and weekends. They can be kind of pricey compared to traveling on your own, but maybe you can guilt your parents into paying the difference since they won't let you go by yourself.
Also, you might try mentioning that this kind of hysterical controlling behavior does not speak well for your long-term relationship with your parents and that at some point they'll need to cut the strings or risk alienating you completely. But that might not help with the plans to go to Europe.
posted by bluejayk at 3:56 PM on March 13, 2009
Not an answer to your question, since my parents were way cooler than most. I backpacked alone in Europe when I was 17. While I would go mostly to cities where I had friends to visit and spend time with, the journey wasn't all that much fun at all during the times when I was alone--I ended up bored and miserable and wishing I had someone there to share the fascinating views and the new cities. Finding a traveling buddy is really your best bet here: maybe your mom can compromise and let you fly out alone to meet your friend from Romania?
Other than that, presenting her with a detailed itinerary, buying a prepaid cell phone service while in Europe so she can reach you at all times, and promising to send her daily emails could all help when trying to persuade her?
Have your parents taken a vacation soon? Maybe they can fly out with you to Paris or London, and after a day or two you can go your separate ways when they fly back without you?
posted by halogen at 4:03 PM on March 13, 2009
Other than that, presenting her with a detailed itinerary, buying a prepaid cell phone service while in Europe so she can reach you at all times, and promising to send her daily emails could all help when trying to persuade her?
Have your parents taken a vacation soon? Maybe they can fly out with you to Paris or London, and after a day or two you can go your separate ways when they fly back without you?
posted by halogen at 4:03 PM on March 13, 2009
Has she voiced any specific concerns? or just general unease about you traveling outside of your home country?
If the former, then obviously presenting her with information from Europe about her concerns and comparing them favourably with ones from home would be useful. If the latter, try to draw links between how going, say, to London from NY is no different than going to LA with regards to plane journeys and being in a strange city.
Using your dad to help convince would be a good idea, as he's likely to have some in with her that you don't. However, if she's just plain xenophobic there's nothing much you can do.
posted by Sova at 4:04 PM on March 13, 2009
If the former, then obviously presenting her with information from Europe about her concerns and comparing them favourably with ones from home would be useful. If the latter, try to draw links between how going, say, to London from NY is no different than going to LA with regards to plane journeys and being in a strange city.
Using your dad to help convince would be a good idea, as he's likely to have some in with her that you don't. However, if she's just plain xenophobic there's nothing much you can do.
posted by Sova at 4:04 PM on March 13, 2009
Perhaps a short trip alone somewhere in North America that's far from your home (Canada?) can help her ease into the idea of going further away.
posted by Krrrlson at 4:04 PM on March 13, 2009
posted by Krrrlson at 4:04 PM on March 13, 2009
Google gun crime stats. Your probably less safe in the US than in Paris or London.
posted by damn dirty ape at 4:11 PM on March 13, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by damn dirty ape at 4:11 PM on March 13, 2009 [1 favorite]
I'm materially beholden to my parents in that if I traveled overseas solo, Mom would threaten to pull my tuition.
That would be an awesome conversation to have at baggage claim when you return. Seriously, just go. But tell me when you come back so I can film the drama.
"I can't believe you left without my permission."
"Bummer for you that I wanted to see the world on my own terms."
"I'm not going to pay for your tuition."
"Really? You'd literally harm my future because I took a trip? You would trample all my hopes, dreams and future security and well-being because ... what? Because you were frightened? Oh, you poor widdle baby. Here's a knife so you cut off your nose to spite your face."
"Oh, I'm really going to pull your tuition now, smarty-pants!"
"Well, without your help, guess I'll have to do it on my own. I hear the G.I. Bill is pretty cool..."
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 4:14 PM on March 13, 2009 [13 favorites]
That would be an awesome conversation to have at baggage claim when you return. Seriously, just go. But tell me when you come back so I can film the drama.
"I can't believe you left without my permission."
"Bummer for you that I wanted to see the world on my own terms."
"I'm not going to pay for your tuition."
"Really? You'd literally harm my future because I took a trip? You would trample all my hopes, dreams and future security and well-being because ... what? Because you were frightened? Oh, you poor widdle baby. Here's a knife so you cut off your nose to spite your face."
"Oh, I'm really going to pull your tuition now, smarty-pants!"
"Well, without your help, guess I'll have to do it on my own. I hear the G.I. Bill is pretty cool..."
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 4:14 PM on March 13, 2009 [13 favorites]
Response by poster: damndirtyape, that's part of the tactics I was trying to use.
Something pertinent to mention might be the fact that Mom's less comfortable with not being able to get to places such as Paris quickly - it's at least an 8-hour plane flight - whereas at most it would take six hours to get anywhere in the continental US.
Perhaps I should ponder a trip to Hawaii or Alaska just to get her thinking. :D
posted by kldickson at 4:15 PM on March 13, 2009
Something pertinent to mention might be the fact that Mom's less comfortable with not being able to get to places such as Paris quickly - it's at least an 8-hour plane flight - whereas at most it would take six hours to get anywhere in the continental US.
Perhaps I should ponder a trip to Hawaii or Alaska just to get her thinking. :D
posted by kldickson at 4:15 PM on March 13, 2009
Response by poster: And the trip would be all on my own money. I think I should mention such .
posted by kldickson at 4:17 PM on March 13, 2009
posted by kldickson at 4:17 PM on March 13, 2009
if I traveled overseas solo, Mom would threaten to pull my tuition.
You might have to take this head on. This is bigger than your travel, it's about your independence and right to be an adult; risking the loss of tuition may be worthwhile to allow you to emerge into adulthood.
First, talk to dad privately, to ask him to work behind the scenes on your behalf, not just in trying to convince your mother to let you travel, but to get an assurance that he will try to guide her away from sabotaging your future if you do choose to travel and your mother hasn't come around to the idea.
How you then discuss it with your mother depends on her character, so we can't help. But I would use phrases like "appreciate your love and concern", "trapped and stunted by your demonstrably irrational fear", "life lived in fear is a life half lived", and words like sabotage in reference to tuition threats. The idea is to put a perspective that you appreciate her love and concern, and you do not consider yourself entitled to her aid in tuition, but she is out of line in trying to control your life, and her means of enforcement undermine her claims of concern for your future.
I had a sibling who was similarly locked into what she considered to be an over-protective coddling, enforced by tuition costs. She choose freedom at the price of tuition debt. The parents changed their tune - once she was out of their control, then the entire balance of power has changed but they still want what is best for her, so they were much more open to negotiation. Even then, she didn't compromise, and so ended up getting much less financial help and going into debt for tuition, but eventually paid it back and considers she absolutely made the right call in life.
Parents sometimes need an event to make them let go. If you knuckle under for one irrational fear today, you may be presented with another irrational fear tomorrow, and you'll be back to square one, the same dilemma - but this time after having already paid the price of not traveling.
And for what it's worth, in my opinion, your solo trip idea is a better investment in personal development than anything else you could do in that time. When my friends were your age, and did such trips, it was the most reliable thing that would make a person, well... blossom! The ease and confidence in yourself that you will gain will aid you for the rest of your life.
posted by -harlequin- at 4:24 PM on March 13, 2009 [5 favorites]
You might have to take this head on. This is bigger than your travel, it's about your independence and right to be an adult; risking the loss of tuition may be worthwhile to allow you to emerge into adulthood.
First, talk to dad privately, to ask him to work behind the scenes on your behalf, not just in trying to convince your mother to let you travel, but to get an assurance that he will try to guide her away from sabotaging your future if you do choose to travel and your mother hasn't come around to the idea.
How you then discuss it with your mother depends on her character, so we can't help. But I would use phrases like "appreciate your love and concern", "trapped and stunted by your demonstrably irrational fear", "life lived in fear is a life half lived", and words like sabotage in reference to tuition threats. The idea is to put a perspective that you appreciate her love and concern, and you do not consider yourself entitled to her aid in tuition, but she is out of line in trying to control your life, and her means of enforcement undermine her claims of concern for your future.
I had a sibling who was similarly locked into what she considered to be an over-protective coddling, enforced by tuition costs. She choose freedom at the price of tuition debt. The parents changed their tune - once she was out of their control, then the entire balance of power has changed but they still want what is best for her, so they were much more open to negotiation. Even then, she didn't compromise, and so ended up getting much less financial help and going into debt for tuition, but eventually paid it back and considers she absolutely made the right call in life.
Parents sometimes need an event to make them let go. If you knuckle under for one irrational fear today, you may be presented with another irrational fear tomorrow, and you'll be back to square one, the same dilemma - but this time after having already paid the price of not traveling.
And for what it's worth, in my opinion, your solo trip idea is a better investment in personal development than anything else you could do in that time. When my friends were your age, and did such trips, it was the most reliable thing that would make a person, well... blossom! The ease and confidence in yourself that you will gain will aid you for the rest of your life.
posted by -harlequin- at 4:24 PM on March 13, 2009 [5 favorites]
And the trip would be all on my own money. I think I should mention such
If it is your money, just do it.
It's far easier to ask forgiveness than permission. And you don't need forgiveness for traveling on your own dime at age 20.
posted by Justinian at 4:29 PM on March 13, 2009
If it is your money, just do it.
It's far easier to ask forgiveness than permission. And you don't need forgiveness for traveling on your own dime at age 20.
posted by Justinian at 4:29 PM on March 13, 2009
I traveled all over England and some other parts of Europe solo in my early twenties. My parents aren't worriers, but as a general courtesy and safety measure, I mapped out my itinerary in advance, left them contact information for all the hostels I'd booked, and sent them quick emails as soon as I arrived at my destination or whenever my plans changed. It worked really well, and they loved following along on my travels from home.
In looking at your previous posts about your mom, it really does not sound like there is anything you'll be able to say to convince her. I completely second harlequin's advice to get your dad on your side first and then tell your mom of your plans.
posted by anderjen at 4:29 PM on March 13, 2009
In looking at your previous posts about your mom, it really does not sound like there is anything you'll be able to say to convince her. I completely second harlequin's advice to get your dad on your side first and then tell your mom of your plans.
posted by anderjen at 4:29 PM on March 13, 2009
Something pertinent to mention might be the fact that Mom's less comfortable with not being able to get to places such as Paris quickly - it's at least an 8-hour plane flight - whereas at most it would take six hours to get anywhere in the continental US.
So...her being there by your side should anything happen is her major worry? She needs to learn to let go and trust you to look after yourself and others around you should bad things happen. A cheap option to help her learn this would be to spend a week camping in some wilderness - no contact, no transportation, no help.
And the trip would be all on my own money.
Good. If it comes down to it, tell her straight that you would take the trip now but for the possibility of her stopping your tuition, and that as soon as you graduate you will be spending the summer in Europe - with or without her blessing. Make her aware that your respect is for her financial position over you, not for her unfounded fears. It's not something I would say right now, but as a last effort to make her realise how unreasonable a position she's putting you in.
(Oh, and yeah, personally I would just go and come back with a shrug like, 'what you going to do about it?' But I respect you might want to avoid that situation.)
posted by Sova at 4:35 PM on March 13, 2009
So...her being there by your side should anything happen is her major worry? She needs to learn to let go and trust you to look after yourself and others around you should bad things happen. A cheap option to help her learn this would be to spend a week camping in some wilderness - no contact, no transportation, no help.
And the trip would be all on my own money.
Good. If it comes down to it, tell her straight that you would take the trip now but for the possibility of her stopping your tuition, and that as soon as you graduate you will be spending the summer in Europe - with or without her blessing. Make her aware that your respect is for her financial position over you, not for her unfounded fears. It's not something I would say right now, but as a last effort to make her realise how unreasonable a position she's putting you in.
(Oh, and yeah, personally I would just go and come back with a shrug like, 'what you going to do about it?' But I respect you might want to avoid that situation.)
posted by Sova at 4:35 PM on March 13, 2009
I think you should find a way to do it. There is a very vibrant way of seeing the world when we're young (who knows why, hormones?) that is very influential, life changing, amazing. I went to India at 16 with a friend, went back at 18 to work in Calcutta, and the same summer went to England.
However, I had my Dad's support. This was very important when I first arrived in Bombay and our flights were messed up, or got hospitalised in Calcutta and just needed that reassuring voice over the phone. Also, your Mom may be in serious pain worrying if you go (I was once convinced against my will to be apart from a loved one for a long period and it was hell).
Try not to hurt your parents in the process, you'll have them as long as either of you are alive. They have real desires just like you, find out what they are, try to understand them as you talk to them. Be rational and empathetic. Be open to them and honest. Find out if there's any way to earn this, to show how much you want it, work for it, be committed. I think everyone is saying that you have to learn how to work with them. If you can make this happen without freaking out or hurting anyone, you will show just how trustworthy and adult you are.
If it's about your Mom getting there that doesn't seem rational to me, so I think it can be compassionately negotiated. You can get hurt anywhere and your Mom can't prevent it by getting there faster. There are doctors and hospitals everywhere and they'll be in charge if you get hurt. If you need a lawyer, there's the embassy. She's worried about how long she'll have to not be with you after knowing that something has happened to you? You can get hurt anywhere and your Mom can't do anything about that before or after.
Don't let her watch "Locked Up Abroad" either. Good luck! You can do it!
posted by scazza at 4:41 PM on March 13, 2009
However, I had my Dad's support. This was very important when I first arrived in Bombay and our flights were messed up, or got hospitalised in Calcutta and just needed that reassuring voice over the phone. Also, your Mom may be in serious pain worrying if you go (I was once convinced against my will to be apart from a loved one for a long period and it was hell).
Try not to hurt your parents in the process, you'll have them as long as either of you are alive. They have real desires just like you, find out what they are, try to understand them as you talk to them. Be rational and empathetic. Be open to them and honest. Find out if there's any way to earn this, to show how much you want it, work for it, be committed. I think everyone is saying that you have to learn how to work with them. If you can make this happen without freaking out or hurting anyone, you will show just how trustworthy and adult you are.
If it's about your Mom getting there that doesn't seem rational to me, so I think it can be compassionately negotiated. You can get hurt anywhere and your Mom can't prevent it by getting there faster. There are doctors and hospitals everywhere and they'll be in charge if you get hurt. If you need a lawyer, there's the embassy. She's worried about how long she'll have to not be with you after knowing that something has happened to you? You can get hurt anywhere and your Mom can't do anything about that before or after.
Don't let her watch "Locked Up Abroad" either. Good luck! You can do it!
posted by scazza at 4:41 PM on March 13, 2009
Why don't you set up travelling companions for the cities that really worry her? There are a lot of travel sites that will allow you to find people to travel with/hang out with. If she's worried about Athens or Lisbon or wherever, just set up and vet people you could hang out with and travel with while you're there.
Or get a friend to travel with you for real. Honestly, while international travel is not that big of a deal these days, bad things happen to young, single men and women travelling abroad all the time. While your mom's hysteria might be off the mark, her concerns are not totally crazy. I have never travelled by myself, but I've been wandering around the globe since I was 21 and have occasionally been in situations (on Vietnamese trains, at Russian checkpoints) where I might have felt vulnerable if I were alone.
Also, cautionary tale: after high school, a friend of mine took a solo trip to Rome. There he met a few people in a bar and struck up a conversation. They had a few drinks together. Some time later, he woke up in an alley, beaten up, with an injection mark on his arm. Turns out the new friends he had met had gotten him to go to a second bar with him. On the way they dragged him into an alley, beat him up, injected him with sodium pentothal or some variant, got his ATM pin and his card from him, and then withdrew all the money from his bank account.
I would never have believed that story if I didn't know it to be absolutely true. I realize it sounds like the plot of a terrible teen movie. It's an extreme case that could have been avoided if my friend had followed a few basic tips (i.e., don't go with people you don't know to a second location), but it also wouldn't have happened if he wasn't alone.
posted by meglo91 at 4:45 PM on March 13, 2009
Or get a friend to travel with you for real. Honestly, while international travel is not that big of a deal these days, bad things happen to young, single men and women travelling abroad all the time. While your mom's hysteria might be off the mark, her concerns are not totally crazy. I have never travelled by myself, but I've been wandering around the globe since I was 21 and have occasionally been in situations (on Vietnamese trains, at Russian checkpoints) where I might have felt vulnerable if I were alone.
Also, cautionary tale: after high school, a friend of mine took a solo trip to Rome. There he met a few people in a bar and struck up a conversation. They had a few drinks together. Some time later, he woke up in an alley, beaten up, with an injection mark on his arm. Turns out the new friends he had met had gotten him to go to a second bar with him. On the way they dragged him into an alley, beat him up, injected him with sodium pentothal or some variant, got his ATM pin and his card from him, and then withdrew all the money from his bank account.
I would never have believed that story if I didn't know it to be absolutely true. I realize it sounds like the plot of a terrible teen movie. It's an extreme case that could have been avoided if my friend had followed a few basic tips (i.e., don't go with people you don't know to a second location), but it also wouldn't have happened if he wasn't alone.
posted by meglo91 at 4:45 PM on March 13, 2009
The way I see it is the your parents are doing you a huge favor by paying for your tuition. Huge. Getting a semi-travel buddy to keep you mom from worrying sounds like a wonderful favor you can do back.
(that doesn't rule out negotiation of course)
posted by Vaike at 4:46 PM on March 13, 2009 [1 favorite]
(that doesn't rule out negotiation of course)
posted by Vaike at 4:46 PM on March 13, 2009 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: For some absurd reason, Mom's also overly afraid of me getting pulled into one of those woman-trafficking operations. Every time I have brought this up, she has said 'Women get trafficked over there!'. This happens EXTREMELY RARELY, am I right?
posted by kldickson at 4:47 PM on March 13, 2009
posted by kldickson at 4:47 PM on March 13, 2009
Speaking as someone twice your age (!), with a mom, grandmother, and a former mother-in-law who all wandered into similar territory at one point or another, I can tell you this: your mom is basically trying to emotionally blackmail you.
This absolutely doesn't mean she's being malicious or crazy; from my experience, I would guess that it probably comes comes from some combination of two things: 1) she wants you to manage her fears/anxieties for her, rather than managing them herself, and 2) she wants to exert some sort of control over major decisions in your life, despite the fact that you're an adult.
This means that presenting her with all the travel statistics in the world won't really address the problem. The problem is not that she lacks data, it's that she lacks the ability to allow her natural fears for her child's safety to coexist with her willingness to let her child make her own decisions.
Ultimately, this is a dynamic that can only be changed on your side -- in other words, you can't control her responses, you can only control your responses. To me, this would mean making the decision to go to to Europe whether she likes it or not, and despite the fear that she's now put on you that she'll hold your education hostage if you do so.
Now, of course, you can make that decision AND inform her lovingly and respectfully of it ("mom, I know that you're feeling worried, and I love you for being so concerned for me") AND integrate into it some mechanisms by which you can acknowledge your mom's worries ("and so I'll check in every 48 hours via email or twitter").
But the thing is, you get to make your own decisions. There may be many things you are going to want to do in your 20s, 30s, 40s and beyond that may make your mother worry. But you can't let her worry make your choices for you.
posted by scody at 4:47 PM on March 13, 2009 [3 favorites]
This absolutely doesn't mean she's being malicious or crazy; from my experience, I would guess that it probably comes comes from some combination of two things: 1) she wants you to manage her fears/anxieties for her, rather than managing them herself, and 2) she wants to exert some sort of control over major decisions in your life, despite the fact that you're an adult.
This means that presenting her with all the travel statistics in the world won't really address the problem. The problem is not that she lacks data, it's that she lacks the ability to allow her natural fears for her child's safety to coexist with her willingness to let her child make her own decisions.
Ultimately, this is a dynamic that can only be changed on your side -- in other words, you can't control her responses, you can only control your responses. To me, this would mean making the decision to go to to Europe whether she likes it or not, and despite the fear that she's now put on you that she'll hold your education hostage if you do so.
Now, of course, you can make that decision AND inform her lovingly and respectfully of it ("mom, I know that you're feeling worried, and I love you for being so concerned for me") AND integrate into it some mechanisms by which you can acknowledge your mom's worries ("and so I'll check in every 48 hours via email or twitter").
But the thing is, you get to make your own decisions. There may be many things you are going to want to do in your 20s, 30s, 40s and beyond that may make your mother worry. But you can't let her worry make your choices for you.
posted by scody at 4:47 PM on March 13, 2009 [3 favorites]
Would she let you go to New York City or Los Angeles alone? If so, how different is it to go to Paris or London? The European cities are actually far safer.
If logic won't work, and the fact that thousands of young single women travel alone blithely (I was flying all over the place by 17), you may ultimately have to bow to her purse strings and wait until you graduate. Logic and moms don't always mix.
posted by CunningLinguist at 4:52 PM on March 13, 2009
If logic won't work, and the fact that thousands of young single women travel alone blithely (I was flying all over the place by 17), you may ultimately have to bow to her purse strings and wait until you graduate. Logic and moms don't always mix.
posted by CunningLinguist at 4:52 PM on March 13, 2009
Every time I have brought this up, she has said 'Women get trafficked over there!'. This happens EXTREMELY RARELY, am I right?
Women get trafficked OVER HERE too. So this is a ridiculous concern.
You are making the mistake of thinking you can logic someone out of an illogical position. You can't. Your mom is having an emotional reaction, not an intellectual one. All the facts in the world are unlikely to make her stop feeling scared.
Which is why I think you should do it as long as you are the one paying. It ain't going to stop when you graduate, trust me. It's time to establish some adult boundaries.
posted by Justinian at 4:53 PM on March 13, 2009 [1 favorite]
Women get trafficked OVER HERE too. So this is a ridiculous concern.
You are making the mistake of thinking you can logic someone out of an illogical position. You can't. Your mom is having an emotional reaction, not an intellectual one. All the facts in the world are unlikely to make her stop feeling scared.
Which is why I think you should do it as long as you are the one paying. It ain't going to stop when you graduate, trust me. It's time to establish some adult boundaries.
posted by Justinian at 4:53 PM on March 13, 2009 [1 favorite]
Are we talking about a simple summer abroad? Because honestly, if you are, doing the whole thing on your own can be pretty... wearing. My suggestion would be to compromise with your mom - you fly out on your own, and join a Contiki tour. You can do camping trips (or plusher trips) from 22 - 46 days, and the price includes accomodation, travel between countries, breakfast and some dinners.
The thing that's cool about it is that once you're there, you don't have to stay with the tour. You can decide Belgium sounds boring, leave the tour in Vienna and rejoin it three days later in Zurich, or whatever. You can skip all the planned tour activites, and have your days entirely to yourself, just hanging out with your group for breakfast, dinner and the pub if you like - or stay in and read. Do whatever you like, really.
The security of a tour, plus the itinerary and the tour guide, will probably seem reasonable to your folks. The reality of your actual total independence while on the tour needn't be shared with them. And having some structure and some people can be nice, too.
FWIW, I did this at 18 under similar circumstances and it worked out really well. I actually skipped the whole last two weeks of my tour and shacked up with an absolutely gorgeous guy from Birmingham who's name I can't remember in Greece, and it worked out perfectly for everyone. (Especially me!)
posted by DarlingBri at 5:09 PM on March 13, 2009 [1 favorite]
The thing that's cool about it is that once you're there, you don't have to stay with the tour. You can decide Belgium sounds boring, leave the tour in Vienna and rejoin it three days later in Zurich, or whatever. You can skip all the planned tour activites, and have your days entirely to yourself, just hanging out with your group for breakfast, dinner and the pub if you like - or stay in and read. Do whatever you like, really.
The security of a tour, plus the itinerary and the tour guide, will probably seem reasonable to your folks. The reality of your actual total independence while on the tour needn't be shared with them. And having some structure and some people can be nice, too.
FWIW, I did this at 18 under similar circumstances and it worked out really well. I actually skipped the whole last two weeks of my tour and shacked up with an absolutely gorgeous guy from Birmingham who's name I can't remember in Greece, and it worked out perfectly for everyone. (Especially me!)
posted by DarlingBri at 5:09 PM on March 13, 2009 [1 favorite]
As usual, scody is spot on, in my opinion. If I were you (and of course I'm not, and I'm over twice your age, and financially independent etc etc) I'd just go. I'd bet the tuition threat is just a bluff - it's a convenient hook to keep you on - but she wouldn't really stop paying for your education. If she's truly afraid for your safety, she wouldn't want you working the night shift at a gas station or 7-11 to pay for school, right?
Try to get Dad on your side, but if he doesn't want to get involved, just go anyway. This is just the first of many battles you'll face with your Mom over who gets to control your life now that you're a grownup, and the sooner you train her that you control your life, the better.
Having said that, if you can hook up with some traveling companions it might be more fun for you anyway. It's always nice to have somebody to watch your luggage while you use the bathroom, and restaurant meals are more fun with others, but if you can't find anybody then just go by yourself. I've travelled quite a lot as a lone woman and have no regrets, but I'd be kicking myself now if I'd stayed home because of my fears or anybody else's.
posted by Quietgal at 5:11 PM on March 13, 2009
Try to get Dad on your side, but if he doesn't want to get involved, just go anyway. This is just the first of many battles you'll face with your Mom over who gets to control your life now that you're a grownup, and the sooner you train her that you control your life, the better.
Having said that, if you can hook up with some traveling companions it might be more fun for you anyway. It's always nice to have somebody to watch your luggage while you use the bathroom, and restaurant meals are more fun with others, but if you can't find anybody then just go by yourself. I've travelled quite a lot as a lone woman and have no regrets, but I'd be kicking myself now if I'd stayed home because of my fears or anybody else's.
posted by Quietgal at 5:11 PM on March 13, 2009
Important note: Everyone saying just go, consequences be damned, won't have to live with the consequences. Saying "Piff, it doesn't matter, you can pay for school" is kinda reckless, considering the amount of debt a student can easily wrack up. Having someone pay for your education can be very nice and shouldn't be casually thrown away.
This doesn't mean you have to do what your mom says (because she's totally and completely in the wrong here), but it does mean you should think carefully about what you're going to do, because you have to live with out. 2 days from now, no one who answered will remember this question. 2 years from now you could still be living with the fallout from this decision.
That said, if my parents had pulled this shit when I your age, i would have been on a plane in hours.
Couple of questions though:
1. What does your Mom consider a traveling companion?
2. You seem determined not to have a companion. Why?
3. Are you sure Mom would make such a threat? If so, would she carry it out? Is that the only think stopping you from going or is there something else?
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 5:13 PM on March 13, 2009
This doesn't mean you have to do what your mom says (because she's totally and completely in the wrong here), but it does mean you should think carefully about what you're going to do, because you have to live with out. 2 days from now, no one who answered will remember this question. 2 years from now you could still be living with the fallout from this decision.
That said, if my parents had pulled this shit when I your age, i would have been on a plane in hours.
Couple of questions though:
1. What does your Mom consider a traveling companion?
2. You seem determined not to have a companion. Why?
3. Are you sure Mom would make such a threat? If so, would she carry it out? Is that the only think stopping you from going or is there something else?
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 5:13 PM on March 13, 2009
For some absurd reason, Mom's also overly afraid of me getting pulled into one of those woman-trafficking operations. Every time I have brought this up, she has said 'Women get trafficked over there!'. This happens EXTREMELY RARELY, am I right?
What? Women from Eastern Europe (outside the EU) and from Africa do get trafficked, and sometimes in fairly large numbers (like hundreds of thousands). But female tourists aren't being pulled off the streets and locked up as sex slaves in Parisian brothels. Your mum needs to stop watching the news.
posted by Sova at 5:15 PM on March 13, 2009
What? Women from Eastern Europe (outside the EU) and from Africa do get trafficked, and sometimes in fairly large numbers (like hundreds of thousands). But female tourists aren't being pulled off the streets and locked up as sex slaves in Parisian brothels. Your mum needs to stop watching the news.
posted by Sova at 5:15 PM on March 13, 2009
Response by poster: Brandon, here's your answers:
1) I don't know. Probably someone she knows won't do anything sketchy to me.
2) I'm not determined not to, but I'd like to at least manage the overseas flight myself. I'd really like to hoof it around a city with my Romanian friend, for example, and that would require me flying across the Atlantic Ocean to meet up with him in, say, Athens or Amsterdam.
3) Mom has made the threat before, and frankly, I have no idea whether she'd carry it out or not - and that's the only thing stopping me from going. I'd like to decrease the amount of hand-wringing I have to do about where the check for my tuition is coming from. I'm really trying to think carefully about this.
posted by kldickson at 5:19 PM on March 13, 2009
1) I don't know. Probably someone she knows won't do anything sketchy to me.
2) I'm not determined not to, but I'd like to at least manage the overseas flight myself. I'd really like to hoof it around a city with my Romanian friend, for example, and that would require me flying across the Atlantic Ocean to meet up with him in, say, Athens or Amsterdam.
3) Mom has made the threat before, and frankly, I have no idea whether she'd carry it out or not - and that's the only thing stopping me from going. I'd like to decrease the amount of hand-wringing I have to do about where the check for my tuition is coming from. I'm really trying to think carefully about this.
posted by kldickson at 5:19 PM on March 13, 2009
I second the idea of a study abroad program run through your school in a safe place. Maybe a place your mom has been before (Paris? London?) that is just about as safe as any big city. Then once you're there, just take little cheap weekend trips all over Europe via budget airlines. You can tell your parents about it afterwards. (Since you won't be technically travelling overseas, if you're already LIVING overseas.)
I only support being disingenuous with your parents in this regard because I backpacked solo when I was 20 though Europe (and the Middle East) and it was probably the best decision I ever made.
posted by np312 at 5:21 PM on March 13, 2009
I only support being disingenuous with your parents in this regard because I backpacked solo when I was 20 though Europe (and the Middle East) and it was probably the best decision I ever made.
posted by np312 at 5:21 PM on March 13, 2009
This means that presenting her with all the travel statistics in the world won't really address the problem. The problem is not that she lacks data, it's that she lacks the ability to allow her natural fears for her child's safety to coexist with her willingness to let her child make her own decisions.
I think that's exactly why we need to talk to each other, especially as families. To get rational. It may take a long committed conversation where you have to take breaks to keep from ripping her head off to get her to be rational, but I think that despite your earlier posts about her, that you have no choice but to believe that she can be. She has the power, but she's also doing you a huge thing by paying your tuition. I have had really patient exhausting passionate discussions with very irrational family members and even if they do hang on to their irrationalities some things can change. It might be frustrating that you can't change her feelings in one conversation BUT she may allow you to go which is more important. Despite what I said earlier she may even be hurt, but at least then you have given 100% and she may have a glimmer of knowledge that these feelings are her problem.
posted by scazza at 5:23 PM on March 13, 2009
I think that's exactly why we need to talk to each other, especially as families. To get rational. It may take a long committed conversation where you have to take breaks to keep from ripping her head off to get her to be rational, but I think that despite your earlier posts about her, that you have no choice but to believe that she can be. She has the power, but she's also doing you a huge thing by paying your tuition. I have had really patient exhausting passionate discussions with very irrational family members and even if they do hang on to their irrationalities some things can change. It might be frustrating that you can't change her feelings in one conversation BUT she may allow you to go which is more important. Despite what I said earlier she may even be hurt, but at least then you have given 100% and she may have a glimmer of knowledge that these feelings are her problem.
posted by scazza at 5:23 PM on March 13, 2009
Another angle on this is, you could actually be helping your mom, rather than harming her, by setting a boundary here. She's letting herself get carried away with irrational fears; you have the opportunity to show her that it's not necessary and doesn't result in the payoff she's looking for. IMO, it would be wrong to engage this on the level of compiling a list of your facts vs. her facts, because that buys into the premise that it's legitimate for her to control you this way in the first place, regardless of the facts.
It's kind of like a little kid who's so obsessed with playing with a toy that they get completely burned out and exhausted. If you take it away for a while, they scream and cry, but ultimately they're kind of relieved that someone's restoring some stability and sanity to the situation.
Of course, like anything else, you're the one in the situation and in the end you have to apply your own best common sense, judgment, and intuition. And, of course, you'll have to face the consequences as well. If you're not ready to do that re: the tuition situation (which very much sounds like an empty threat to heighten the drama, but who can say for sure?), then I'd suggest you try to get into circumstances where you can as soon as possible (even if it's when you graduate, etc.) Eventually you'll have to go through something like this in one form or another.
posted by dixie flatline at 5:26 PM on March 13, 2009 [1 favorite]
It's kind of like a little kid who's so obsessed with playing with a toy that they get completely burned out and exhausted. If you take it away for a while, they scream and cry, but ultimately they're kind of relieved that someone's restoring some stability and sanity to the situation.
Of course, like anything else, you're the one in the situation and in the end you have to apply your own best common sense, judgment, and intuition. And, of course, you'll have to face the consequences as well. If you're not ready to do that re: the tuition situation (which very much sounds like an empty threat to heighten the drama, but who can say for sure?), then I'd suggest you try to get into circumstances where you can as soon as possible (even if it's when you graduate, etc.) Eventually you'll have to go through something like this in one form or another.
posted by dixie flatline at 5:26 PM on March 13, 2009 [1 favorite]
Is there anyone you know from school who might be heading over to Europe at approximately the same time? You could team up with them for at least the flight over (and maybe the return flight) and then you'd be over there and home free, and you and your plane buddy could go your separate ways: you to your Romanian friend, and plane buddy to wherever their little heart desires.
posted by ocherdraco at 5:38 PM on March 13, 2009
posted by ocherdraco at 5:38 PM on March 13, 2009
Can you take some basic self-defense training, or even better, Krav Maga? Showing her you are able to defend yourself physically against attack would be beneficial to both of you.
FYI, I did what you did when I was 19 during the first Gulf War and right after the Berlin Wall came down (when Americans were getting messed with left and right) and yet, here I am typing! I'm five foot one and was about 120 lbs. when I went and took no weapons. Even when I got mugged, I was fine, all they took was my camera. And that was before cell phones and email via internet cafes every 100 yards, too.
You can't reason with fear of the unknown, but you can be better armed against possible dangers. Maybe you and mom could take a class together so she can see how serious you are?
posted by Unicorn on the cob at 5:40 PM on March 13, 2009
FYI, I did what you did when I was 19 during the first Gulf War and right after the Berlin Wall came down (when Americans were getting messed with left and right) and yet, here I am typing! I'm five foot one and was about 120 lbs. when I went and took no weapons. Even when I got mugged, I was fine, all they took was my camera. And that was before cell phones and email via internet cafes every 100 yards, too.
You can't reason with fear of the unknown, but you can be better armed against possible dangers. Maybe you and mom could take a class together so she can see how serious you are?
posted by Unicorn on the cob at 5:40 PM on March 13, 2009
I agree with someone above that you should just enlist dad to grease the skids for you here, but just to take a completely contrarian angle here: Europe will still be there a couple of years from now when you graduate. Getting there while you are still an undergraduate is not the be-all, end-all. You obviously have some money of your own saved up; and you know what, if you can't get mom to agree, just save your pennies, and at graduation announce to her where you're headed, take your time, plan to spend a year, live there, get a job there, and figure out the rest of your life.
posted by beagle at 5:54 PM on March 13, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by beagle at 5:54 PM on March 13, 2009 [1 favorite]
Paris and London are amongst the most touristed places in the world. They are extremely safe.
To be honest, if your mother is concerned about you going alone to those places, and staying (presumably) in hostels, with many other young women of the same age doing the same thing, and because you're evidently concerned about how she feels, it sounds like you don't go crazy very often. This is a level of good risk and is worth doing and will make you feel happy and alive. It doesn't mean you're going to end up a crack addict in the banlieus. At some point you will have to get rid of that nagging fear of what your mother thinks, and better to do it on things that aren't self destructive like too many drugs or too much drinking. Just go.
posted by iamnotateenagegirl at 5:57 PM on March 13, 2009
To be honest, if your mother is concerned about you going alone to those places, and staying (presumably) in hostels, with many other young women of the same age doing the same thing, and because you're evidently concerned about how she feels, it sounds like you don't go crazy very often. This is a level of good risk and is worth doing and will make you feel happy and alive. It doesn't mean you're going to end up a crack addict in the banlieus. At some point you will have to get rid of that nagging fear of what your mother thinks, and better to do it on things that aren't self destructive like too many drugs or too much drinking. Just go.
posted by iamnotateenagegirl at 5:57 PM on March 13, 2009
How many of you have ever had a daughter this age?
Look, from my perspective as a mom of grown children, it always frightened me how totally nonchalant my daughters were about their physical safety. It wasn't that I wanted to wrap them in cotton wool, but I could NOT make them see that they had to take responsibility for their own safety and that blithe reassurances that nothing would happen to them were meaningless bullcrap, as naivete does NOT keep you safe.
One of my daughters did travel at 21 to Korea for a month (with a group) and flew solo to Texas to be with that group, and was fine, as I knew she would be. But never in a million years would I have been okay with that particular daughter flying overseas by herself. Because she was NOT street smart. Maybe YOU are, but WE have no way of knowing that.
Maybe, if you would at least take your mother's concerns more seriously, she would be able to be more comfortable with your travel plans. As it is it is entirely possible that she sees you as way too cavalier about things that COULD happen. It doesn't matter if those things are incredibly common, or incredibly rare, it only matters that in her eyes, it COULD happen to you and she needs reassurance that by one means or another, you are being responsible for your own safety.
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 5:59 PM on March 13, 2009 [4 favorites]
Look, from my perspective as a mom of grown children, it always frightened me how totally nonchalant my daughters were about their physical safety. It wasn't that I wanted to wrap them in cotton wool, but I could NOT make them see that they had to take responsibility for their own safety and that blithe reassurances that nothing would happen to them were meaningless bullcrap, as naivete does NOT keep you safe.
One of my daughters did travel at 21 to Korea for a month (with a group) and flew solo to Texas to be with that group, and was fine, as I knew she would be. But never in a million years would I have been okay with that particular daughter flying overseas by herself. Because she was NOT street smart. Maybe YOU are, but WE have no way of knowing that.
Maybe, if you would at least take your mother's concerns more seriously, she would be able to be more comfortable with your travel plans. As it is it is entirely possible that she sees you as way too cavalier about things that COULD happen. It doesn't matter if those things are incredibly common, or incredibly rare, it only matters that in her eyes, it COULD happen to you and she needs reassurance that by one means or another, you are being responsible for your own safety.
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 5:59 PM on March 13, 2009 [4 favorites]
Just do it. Be honest about what you're doing, and have the conversation with Mom afterwards. She may yank your tuition, but what are the odds of that, and what are the benefits of living a life where you get to call the shots?
posted by zippy at 6:01 PM on March 13, 2009
posted by zippy at 6:01 PM on March 13, 2009
Just go after graduation.
Sure, that's an option... but the thing is, the OP's mom will just exchange tuition for something else to hold over her to try to prevent her from going at that point. My own mother was so negative when I wanted to go teach English in the Czech Republic in the early '90s -- a couple of years after I'd already spent my junior year abroad in college -- that I gave up on the idea largely because I just couldn't take her being so upset about it.
But it's not my mom's fault I didn't go teach in Prague -- it's mine. I chose not to go to appease her. And to this day I regret that I allowed someone else's fears/anxieties to stand in my way of doing something that I desperately wanted to do and which would have no doubt had an impact on the rest of my life.
posted by scody at 6:24 PM on March 13, 2009 [1 favorite]
Sure, that's an option... but the thing is, the OP's mom will just exchange tuition for something else to hold over her to try to prevent her from going at that point. My own mother was so negative when I wanted to go teach English in the Czech Republic in the early '90s -- a couple of years after I'd already spent my junior year abroad in college -- that I gave up on the idea largely because I just couldn't take her being so upset about it.
But it's not my mom's fault I didn't go teach in Prague -- it's mine. I chose not to go to appease her. And to this day I regret that I allowed someone else's fears/anxieties to stand in my way of doing something that I desperately wanted to do and which would have no doubt had an impact on the rest of my life.
posted by scody at 6:24 PM on March 13, 2009 [1 favorite]
You can tell her that it is nearly impossible to stay in youth hostels and not meet people, so the likelihood that you'll actually be travelling around alone, and not with other (probably solo) traveller's is pretty slim.
I should probably caution you not to trust fellow traveller's 100% (I say this as a male who has met someone on a bus travelling to a new city and ended up sharing a room with them - on more than one occasion - without any problems), but I'm sure you'll be fine, and I hope she lets you go.
posted by backwards guitar at 6:24 PM on March 13, 2009
I should probably caution you not to trust fellow traveller's 100% (I say this as a male who has met someone on a bus travelling to a new city and ended up sharing a room with them - on more than one occasion - without any problems), but I'm sure you'll be fine, and I hope she lets you go.
posted by backwards guitar at 6:24 PM on March 13, 2009
'Women get trafficked over there!'. This happens EXTREMELY RARELY, am I right?
The key might be to ask her how exactly she expects this scenario to pan out. Is she afraid they'll take you off the street and pack you into a van? Is she aware that Paris is a crowded fucking city? That the French wouldn't stand for random women being pulled off the street and packed into vans, because then it could happen to their women as well? That it would be a major international incident if American women were regularly kidnapped in France? Or does she think you'll be kidnapped by the hostel owners? Fine, only go to hostels recommended in guide-books. Make reservations in advance. How exactly does this "trafficking" happen, in her mind? Maybe you could look up figures of how many Americans currently live in Paris or London.
To answer your question: I have no idea how much trafficking of women there is in Europe as a whole, but that's some underground shit and usually involves tricking illegal immigrants into shady deals. It certainly doesn't involve just snatching random women off the street. That's called "kidnapping". If you want to know how much kidnapping happens in various European countries, I'm sure the statistics are available somewhere in the internet. I can tell you that there's not a kidnapping epidemic in Europe right now. My girlfriend has been walking around Berlin for 9 years now and not once has she been kidnapped and "trafficked". But then again, she's Spanish. But you know, that's the point: if European women regularly walk around Europe without getting kidnapped and trafficked, why would it happen to American women?
posted by creasy boy at 6:37 PM on March 13, 2009 [1 favorite]
The key might be to ask her how exactly she expects this scenario to pan out. Is she afraid they'll take you off the street and pack you into a van? Is she aware that Paris is a crowded fucking city? That the French wouldn't stand for random women being pulled off the street and packed into vans, because then it could happen to their women as well? That it would be a major international incident if American women were regularly kidnapped in France? Or does she think you'll be kidnapped by the hostel owners? Fine, only go to hostels recommended in guide-books. Make reservations in advance. How exactly does this "trafficking" happen, in her mind? Maybe you could look up figures of how many Americans currently live in Paris or London.
To answer your question: I have no idea how much trafficking of women there is in Europe as a whole, but that's some underground shit and usually involves tricking illegal immigrants into shady deals. It certainly doesn't involve just snatching random women off the street. That's called "kidnapping". If you want to know how much kidnapping happens in various European countries, I'm sure the statistics are available somewhere in the internet. I can tell you that there's not a kidnapping epidemic in Europe right now. My girlfriend has been walking around Berlin for 9 years now and not once has she been kidnapped and "trafficked". But then again, she's Spanish. But you know, that's the point: if European women regularly walk around Europe without getting kidnapped and trafficked, why would it happen to American women?
posted by creasy boy at 6:37 PM on March 13, 2009 [1 favorite]
I'm going to agree with others here, including St. Alia, and say - first, either do a summer course or program in Europe in one of the countries your mother would consider "safer" to get your feet wet with the foreign travel, or do the Contiki tour (which I think is a brilliant suggestion). If you do a summer program, you can perhaps can build in a bit of travel time on weekends or at the end of the course to meet up with your Romanian friend (not that you need to share too much of those plans with your mother). Get your dad on board for one of those plans and also for letting you fly by yourself. It will seem like a reasonable compromise to him, and he will probably support you (eventually) if she objects. Then do your solo travel a year or two later, with the argument that you are now experienced with European travel/living and have proved you can handle things. It is at that point that I would put your foot down and go even if she objects, though you might still consider a travel companion, just because it is often cheaper to go with someone else, if not also safer.
posted by gudrun at 6:46 PM on March 13, 2009
posted by gudrun at 6:46 PM on March 13, 2009
Sure, that's an option... but the thing is, the OP's mom will just exchange tuition for something else to hold over her to try to prevent her from going at that point.
But at that point the OP will be a college graduate with no more tuition bills to haggle over, and can say "Sorry it bothers you, but off I go" regardless of what the mom tries to hold over her head. What would there be to hold?
Sure, maybe mom is being unreasonable in her risk assessment. But the OP is 20 and doesn't have her own money to pay for school. Unfortunately, when you're in the position of not footing your own bill for school, that kind of does obligate you to meet the demands of whoever is paying for you, whether that's the scholarship program that demands you do 3 years of teaching after college, the work-study job that demands you shelve books or sling hash for your class money even when your friends are off for the weekend with Ski Club, the summer employment you do to sock away the moolah to cover your own bills which prevents you from doing that awesome unpaid internship, or the deferring of a pleasure trip for a year or two because that's a condition your funder has set.
I hate to be the stick in the mud, but if the OP were paying her own way on the trip and had her own tuition, I'd say "Yeah! Yer mom's crazy! Go already!" But she's not. Independence is wonderful but the OP isn't independent yet. It's a tough position to be in, but I wouldn't risk losing my college funding over travel plans.
Sure you could try all these negotiation strategies, and maybe it's that important. I do think it's great to go to Europe while you're really young and don't mind traveling on a dime. But "really young" pretty much gets you to age 30. Not everything is as urgent as it feels right now. Not everyone gets to go to Europe as an undergraduate, and parents are under no obligation to fund travel (or college either, for that matter). The OP is a financial dependent.
So I'm saying - give some serious thought to planning this trip as your reward for graduation. You'll have nothing hanging over your head, no studies to return to, and your parents won't be able to say boo about it because you won't be turning around immediately upon your arrival to ask them for thousands of dollars. At least not right away.
If that won't do, then I agree, try the study abroad option or a coordinated volunteer or student travel opportunity. If you really need to live the Eurailing dream and go where you will when you will all by yourself - why not wait until you really do have the freedom?
posted by Miko at 6:51 PM on March 13, 2009 [1 favorite]
But at that point the OP will be a college graduate with no more tuition bills to haggle over, and can say "Sorry it bothers you, but off I go" regardless of what the mom tries to hold over her head. What would there be to hold?
Sure, maybe mom is being unreasonable in her risk assessment. But the OP is 20 and doesn't have her own money to pay for school. Unfortunately, when you're in the position of not footing your own bill for school, that kind of does obligate you to meet the demands of whoever is paying for you, whether that's the scholarship program that demands you do 3 years of teaching after college, the work-study job that demands you shelve books or sling hash for your class money even when your friends are off for the weekend with Ski Club, the summer employment you do to sock away the moolah to cover your own bills which prevents you from doing that awesome unpaid internship, or the deferring of a pleasure trip for a year or two because that's a condition your funder has set.
I hate to be the stick in the mud, but if the OP were paying her own way on the trip and had her own tuition, I'd say "Yeah! Yer mom's crazy! Go already!" But she's not. Independence is wonderful but the OP isn't independent yet. It's a tough position to be in, but I wouldn't risk losing my college funding over travel plans.
Sure you could try all these negotiation strategies, and maybe it's that important. I do think it's great to go to Europe while you're really young and don't mind traveling on a dime. But "really young" pretty much gets you to age 30. Not everything is as urgent as it feels right now. Not everyone gets to go to Europe as an undergraduate, and parents are under no obligation to fund travel (or college either, for that matter). The OP is a financial dependent.
So I'm saying - give some serious thought to planning this trip as your reward for graduation. You'll have nothing hanging over your head, no studies to return to, and your parents won't be able to say boo about it because you won't be turning around immediately upon your arrival to ask them for thousands of dollars. At least not right away.
If that won't do, then I agree, try the study abroad option or a coordinated volunteer or student travel opportunity. If you really need to live the Eurailing dream and go where you will when you will all by yourself - why not wait until you really do have the freedom?
posted by Miko at 6:51 PM on March 13, 2009 [1 favorite]
While her behaviour could well be a form of "emotional blackmail", it's also possible that she's just afraid you won't be able to keep yourself safe when you're alone on another continent.
My first trip to Europe started out with 2 other girl friends. By the time we were about halfway through, we all hated each other and one of the girls ended up in the hospital with alcohol poisoning and pneumonia. So I ended up splitting off and heading on the next leg of the trip alone. I didn't dare tell my mum about it. I was scared shitless, having been a sheltered child and all. But once I was out there, I learned that not only did I enjoy traveling mainly on my own, I realized I really could handle myself. I was never want for company either, as I was staying in hostels and there's always someone there who's curious about their new bunkmate. The only time I was truly alone was when I came through Hamburg. It turned out to be the one of the best vacations of my life. I learned a lot about myself and I met people from the world over, who I visit when I'm in their neck of the woods and vice versa. The only time I was ever in any real danger while abroad was when I was traveling with a school group during uni.
When I told Mum everything on the way home from the airport, her first words were, "Had you told me that when it happened, I would have taken the next flight out and brought you home." She was scared to death about what could have happened to me. At the same time, she was relieved to find out that she had raised a capable young woman. After that, she had no qualms about me going anywhere by myself. I was 19 at the time.
So I would nth the suggestion of getting a travel partner to at least take the flight over. If you can convince her that your friend will meet you on the other side, that could work too. Just make sure you do come home safe so you can prove your point. :-)
posted by arishaun at 7:01 PM on March 13, 2009
My first trip to Europe started out with 2 other girl friends. By the time we were about halfway through, we all hated each other and one of the girls ended up in the hospital with alcohol poisoning and pneumonia. So I ended up splitting off and heading on the next leg of the trip alone. I didn't dare tell my mum about it. I was scared shitless, having been a sheltered child and all. But once I was out there, I learned that not only did I enjoy traveling mainly on my own, I realized I really could handle myself. I was never want for company either, as I was staying in hostels and there's always someone there who's curious about their new bunkmate. The only time I was truly alone was when I came through Hamburg. It turned out to be the one of the best vacations of my life. I learned a lot about myself and I met people from the world over, who I visit when I'm in their neck of the woods and vice versa. The only time I was ever in any real danger while abroad was when I was traveling with a school group during uni.
When I told Mum everything on the way home from the airport, her first words were, "Had you told me that when it happened, I would have taken the next flight out and brought you home." She was scared to death about what could have happened to me. At the same time, she was relieved to find out that she had raised a capable young woman. After that, she had no qualms about me going anywhere by myself. I was 19 at the time.
So I would nth the suggestion of getting a travel partner to at least take the flight over. If you can convince her that your friend will meet you on the other side, that could work too. Just make sure you do come home safe so you can prove your point. :-)
posted by arishaun at 7:01 PM on March 13, 2009
Nthing scody and unicorn on the cob. Also, get the financial aid info from your school and make sure your mother sees the forms you've filled out.
I've traveled to both London and Paris and the worst that has happened to me has been being groped, called "cunt face" and being followed into the tube by someone (who at the time I thought was going the same way) in London and being hit on in Paris when I didn't know the words for "leave me alone!": Laissez moi tranquillle!"
posted by brujita at 7:24 PM on March 13, 2009
I've traveled to both London and Paris and the worst that has happened to me has been being groped, called "cunt face" and being followed into the tube by someone (who at the time I thought was going the same way) in London and being hit on in Paris when I didn't know the words for "leave me alone!": Laissez moi tranquillle!"
posted by brujita at 7:24 PM on March 13, 2009
It sounds like your mom is just not sure you're grown up enough to handle things yet. Ok, you may be able to find food and shelter for yourself every day and night, and figure out how to get to the right trains, but what happens if you get sick or lost or lose your things and you're stuck with no one to turn to? If you're in the US, you can get in touch with her; if you're in europe it's gonna be harder to even make contact let alone for her to come save her.
So basically, she has to be convinced that you can handle it. In this world, communication is easy, so agreeing to skype your parents once a week or at least send regular email updates might make her a little more comfortable. And do some planning ahead so she can see where you'll be staying and what you intend to do with your time (you don't have to include everything, but give her some sense of how it will work out). FInd out a little bit about the worst case scenario details of the places you want to go: an address of a walk-in clinic in london, where you can get new glasses in Athens, that kind of thing. Show her that you understand the risks and possible pain-in-the-ass moments that can come with traveling, and that you are ready to deal with them on your own.
posted by mdn at 7:30 PM on March 13, 2009
So basically, she has to be convinced that you can handle it. In this world, communication is easy, so agreeing to skype your parents once a week or at least send regular email updates might make her a little more comfortable. And do some planning ahead so she can see where you'll be staying and what you intend to do with your time (you don't have to include everything, but give her some sense of how it will work out). FInd out a little bit about the worst case scenario details of the places you want to go: an address of a walk-in clinic in london, where you can get new glasses in Athens, that kind of thing. Show her that you understand the risks and possible pain-in-the-ass moments that can come with traveling, and that you are ready to deal with them on your own.
posted by mdn at 7:30 PM on March 13, 2009
But at that point the OP will be a college graduate with no more tuition bills to haggle over, and can say "Sorry it bothers you, but off I go" regardless of what the mom tries to hold over her head. What would there be to hold?
Well, lots of things, theoretically. For example, if the OP can't afford to move out right after graduation or doesn't have a job that comes with health insurance and has to be on her parents' plan, her mother could just as easily hold any of those over her head.
Someone who REALLY doesn't want a child to do something will find a way to put the pressure on -- via money ("if you go to Europe you'll have to find your own health insurance when you get back"), emotions ("if you go to Europe I guess you just don't care about my well-being"), or other family members ("if you go to Europe your mother will torture me all summer, so stay here for my sake"). The question of tuition may be gone, but the underlying issue will remain.
posted by scody at 8:28 PM on March 13, 2009
Well, lots of things, theoretically. For example, if the OP can't afford to move out right after graduation or doesn't have a job that comes with health insurance and has to be on her parents' plan, her mother could just as easily hold any of those over her head.
Someone who REALLY doesn't want a child to do something will find a way to put the pressure on -- via money ("if you go to Europe you'll have to find your own health insurance when you get back"), emotions ("if you go to Europe I guess you just don't care about my well-being"), or other family members ("if you go to Europe your mother will torture me all summer, so stay here for my sake"). The question of tuition may be gone, but the underlying issue will remain.
posted by scody at 8:28 PM on March 13, 2009
Perhaps my recent thread will benefit you. Although Chicago is not a foreign country, we live in a small rural town where everyone knows each other and my mom has a fit any time I go to Chicago alone.
posted by IndigoRain at 8:32 PM on March 13, 2009
posted by IndigoRain at 8:32 PM on March 13, 2009
Best answer: The question of tuition may be gone, but the underlying issue will remain.
I guess I don't think so. The dependence on tuition is a real obligation. Once that's dispensed with, everything else is emotional stuff. This mom is being unreasonable, and out of touch, and overprotective and overanxious, and that's a real shame. And I certainly am hugely in favor of living your dream, doing what you want, making it happen, throwing caution to the wind, and all that. And of course everyone has to take on their mom at some point, that's a fairly normal part of life. I spent a lot of time doing things in my 20s over my own mom's skeptical objections. Absolutely! You have to be that way.
But the time to make your stand is when you have two feet to stand on, not when you have one hand out waiting for the money to drop into your palm.
For example, if the OP can't afford to move out right after graduation or doesn't have a job that comes with health insurance and has to be on her parents' plan, her mother could just as easily hold any of those over her head.
Sure. But the difference is that she'd have her college diploma. There's not much else here that her mom can give her that she can't give herself - when you pay your own bills, you call your own shots. I am down with making a stand and not letting one's mom's anxieties limit your life choices, but I have trouble with the idea that the OP has some kind of right to make this trip when she can't afford her education. It's just hard for me to see this as the hill to die on, because it's not now or never.
It's possible that some of the strategies here might convince the mom to change her mind. BUt if she did not, if she put her foot down and said "you go and you're cut off," well then, there you have it. You either go, and get cut off, and come back and spend a couple of additional years working part-time and finishing school part-time and living somewhere, maybe home, or just never finish the degree; or you don't go, and then have lingering resentment that is really rather childish, because you are not a victim, you made a choice. I'm just saying to give serious consideration to making the choice to go after graduation, removing the tuition issue, saving money for a little bit longer so you can travel longer, and having nothing hanging over your head when you return. It's probably true that a showdown with this mom is coming, but right now, she has the money on her side. There's not a lot of beating that unless she's sway-able.
posted by Miko at 9:32 PM on March 13, 2009
I guess I don't think so. The dependence on tuition is a real obligation. Once that's dispensed with, everything else is emotional stuff. This mom is being unreasonable, and out of touch, and overprotective and overanxious, and that's a real shame. And I certainly am hugely in favor of living your dream, doing what you want, making it happen, throwing caution to the wind, and all that. And of course everyone has to take on their mom at some point, that's a fairly normal part of life. I spent a lot of time doing things in my 20s over my own mom's skeptical objections. Absolutely! You have to be that way.
But the time to make your stand is when you have two feet to stand on, not when you have one hand out waiting for the money to drop into your palm.
For example, if the OP can't afford to move out right after graduation or doesn't have a job that comes with health insurance and has to be on her parents' plan, her mother could just as easily hold any of those over her head.
Sure. But the difference is that she'd have her college diploma. There's not much else here that her mom can give her that she can't give herself - when you pay your own bills, you call your own shots. I am down with making a stand and not letting one's mom's anxieties limit your life choices, but I have trouble with the idea that the OP has some kind of right to make this trip when she can't afford her education. It's just hard for me to see this as the hill to die on, because it's not now or never.
It's possible that some of the strategies here might convince the mom to change her mind. BUt if she did not, if she put her foot down and said "you go and you're cut off," well then, there you have it. You either go, and get cut off, and come back and spend a couple of additional years working part-time and finishing school part-time and living somewhere, maybe home, or just never finish the degree; or you don't go, and then have lingering resentment that is really rather childish, because you are not a victim, you made a choice. I'm just saying to give serious consideration to making the choice to go after graduation, removing the tuition issue, saving money for a little bit longer so you can travel longer, and having nothing hanging over your head when you return. It's probably true that a showdown with this mom is coming, but right now, she has the money on her side. There's not a lot of beating that unless she's sway-able.
posted by Miko at 9:32 PM on March 13, 2009
Response by poster: I think I'm just going to wait and slowly try to convince Mom that it's okay rather than incur her wrath about this. The tuition bill is important to pay.
Thanks for all your advice
posted by kldickson at 9:48 PM on March 13, 2009
Thanks for all your advice
posted by kldickson at 9:48 PM on March 13, 2009
I genuinely hope you can wear her down... And do whatever you can to take care of yourself as best you can, now and in the future, so you won't have to deal with anyone having that kind of power over your choices again. I bet scody's right, it'll come up over something else, but you'll be in a stronger position to fight it.
posted by Miko at 9:53 PM on March 13, 2009
posted by Miko at 9:53 PM on March 13, 2009
I went and lived in London on a study abroad program when I was 19 along with something like 50 other Americans of both sexes, mostly of about the same age.
Most of us went on random trips around the UK and Europe during the semester (weekends, spring break), and many people went on to bum around Europe for the summer after school was out. To my knowledge, none of us had any serious problems doing this, male or female.
This was in the late 80's. None of us had cellphones, perhaps most of us didn't have credit cards, and nobody had heard of the Internet. Aside from expensive phone calls, the only communication to back home was via the slow postal service. Europe and the UK seemed pretty remote from the US for me.
It was the time of my life. It was transformative, wonderful and freeing. For me, finding out that I could show up alone in a place I'd never been, didn't speak the language, and had no reservations or even knowledge of where I was going and yet being able to survive and have a great time gave me confidence I couldn't have come by any other way. I made some great friends, fell in love for the first time, had a ton of unforgettable experiences. I still bore people with the stories.
My only regret is that I didn't travel more when I was younger. Now I have little kids and all the usual adult responsibilities, and it's much more work and less fun to travel now. You'll never get your early 20's back, so make the most of them.
I will say that traveling alone can get lonely, and for me traveling with a friend is more fun (at least part of the time). If you can meet up with people occasionally it can be very nice.
Keep your wits about you, pay attention, be a bit wary, and you'll likely do just fine.
If you don't go, you'll always wonder "what if?"
posted by DrumsIntheDeep at 10:12 PM on March 13, 2009
Most of us went on random trips around the UK and Europe during the semester (weekends, spring break), and many people went on to bum around Europe for the summer after school was out. To my knowledge, none of us had any serious problems doing this, male or female.
This was in the late 80's. None of us had cellphones, perhaps most of us didn't have credit cards, and nobody had heard of the Internet. Aside from expensive phone calls, the only communication to back home was via the slow postal service. Europe and the UK seemed pretty remote from the US for me.
It was the time of my life. It was transformative, wonderful and freeing. For me, finding out that I could show up alone in a place I'd never been, didn't speak the language, and had no reservations or even knowledge of where I was going and yet being able to survive and have a great time gave me confidence I couldn't have come by any other way. I made some great friends, fell in love for the first time, had a ton of unforgettable experiences. I still bore people with the stories.
My only regret is that I didn't travel more when I was younger. Now I have little kids and all the usual adult responsibilities, and it's much more work and less fun to travel now. You'll never get your early 20's back, so make the most of them.
I will say that traveling alone can get lonely, and for me traveling with a friend is more fun (at least part of the time). If you can meet up with people occasionally it can be very nice.
Keep your wits about you, pay attention, be a bit wary, and you'll likely do just fine.
If you don't go, you'll always wonder "what if?"
posted by DrumsIntheDeep at 10:12 PM on March 13, 2009
I traveled all over Europe when I was 20 and studying abroad in England. Looking back I was lucky--when I overslept and my travel partners left without me I called home from Paris crying. The parents thought I was much better off alone so I could do what I wanted instead of following someone else's plan.
I've been writing a travel blog for some time and one of my 37 year-old male readers was having problems with his mom coping with his upcoming trip. I happened to be from the same town as him and he asked if I could have my mom talk to his. It was kind of funny, but that plus having his mom read my blog helped her to realize he would probably be okay. She realized that if a 26 year-old woman could go to Tajikistan by herself her 37 year-old son might just be okay in Asia.
Perhaps a few examples of solo American females doing the same thing might help a bit. Parents never stop worrying but when my mom saw me navigate public transportation in London and Paris when I was 20 she never questioned my capeability to manage myself in a foreign country again.
posted by Bunglegirl at 10:36 PM on March 13, 2009
I've been writing a travel blog for some time and one of my 37 year-old male readers was having problems with his mom coping with his upcoming trip. I happened to be from the same town as him and he asked if I could have my mom talk to his. It was kind of funny, but that plus having his mom read my blog helped her to realize he would probably be okay. She realized that if a 26 year-old woman could go to Tajikistan by herself her 37 year-old son might just be okay in Asia.
Perhaps a few examples of solo American females doing the same thing might help a bit. Parents never stop worrying but when my mom saw me navigate public transportation in London and Paris when I was 20 she never questioned my capeability to manage myself in a foreign country again.
posted by Bunglegirl at 10:36 PM on March 13, 2009
my mom took me with her on business trips around southeast asia and europe when i was a teenager—i was walking around on my own the mornings and afternoons while she was in meetings, going to museums and just looking around, and i never got into any trouble. i was probably about thirteen or fourteen the first time! if i was fine then, you should be fine now as a college student of 20. kids in nyc start taking the subways to school and back in grade school, for christ's sake, and this is a crowded city of over ten million.
posted by lia at 11:11 PM on March 13, 2009
posted by lia at 11:11 PM on March 13, 2009
First off, lemme state that I am also a woman in my 20s who has had some experience abroad. I think you should go abroad if you really want to, kudos, but I will take a more conservative stance in my advice here:
Have you been abroad before, with your family or on school trips? If not, then please be aware that even "civilized" cities like London and Paris are not without peril. Yes, people say that traveling to a major US city you're unfamiliar with is no riskier, but I disagree. In a different country you will be more disoriented by different culture, different customs, different signage, and of course different language sometimes. This will bewilder you more than once, putting you at risk of pickpockets, muggers, or worse (people have said to not have your mom see 'Taken.' Fair enough, but perhaps *you* should). Don't flash money around. Keep your head and stay aware. Feel free to be spontaneous, but always have an idea of where you are. Don't just get on a train with an unknown destination. Etc etc etc common sense.
Now, that being said, an alternate option to trying to do it yourself is sign up with a package tour group for young people. I know people who did that in australia and loved it. You dont even have to do it the entire time. You can start on a package tour for a few days to a week, and when its over, you can take off on your own for awhile, perhaps with new friends you met through the group. Its a good way to familiarize yourself with the country, and im sure your mom would feel better about you being with a guide during your first days in the country.
posted by CTORourke at 11:57 PM on March 13, 2009
Have you been abroad before, with your family or on school trips? If not, then please be aware that even "civilized" cities like London and Paris are not without peril. Yes, people say that traveling to a major US city you're unfamiliar with is no riskier, but I disagree. In a different country you will be more disoriented by different culture, different customs, different signage, and of course different language sometimes. This will bewilder you more than once, putting you at risk of pickpockets, muggers, or worse (people have said to not have your mom see 'Taken.' Fair enough, but perhaps *you* should). Don't flash money around. Keep your head and stay aware. Feel free to be spontaneous, but always have an idea of where you are. Don't just get on a train with an unknown destination. Etc etc etc common sense.
Now, that being said, an alternate option to trying to do it yourself is sign up with a package tour group for young people. I know people who did that in australia and loved it. You dont even have to do it the entire time. You can start on a package tour for a few days to a week, and when its over, you can take off on your own for awhile, perhaps with new friends you met through the group. Its a good way to familiarize yourself with the country, and im sure your mom would feel better about you being with a guide during your first days in the country.
posted by CTORourke at 11:57 PM on March 13, 2009
Your mom is right to be concerned- it's because she loves you. I mean, people do get killed overseas. Around your age, one of my former high school classmates died during an outing in England. Another died in a car accident while on vacation in Mexico. These things happen and it's silly to pretend they don't. It's especially painful to parents when it happens far away from them. But the truth is that you could get killed without ever leaving your country. It sounds like you need to be the one to cut the apron strings, so to speak, so that you can enjoy your life. I would acknowledge your mom's fears and make sure to contact her when possible while you are overseas to allay her fears about your safety.
posted by Piscean at 12:22 AM on March 14, 2009
posted by Piscean at 12:22 AM on March 14, 2009
You might show your mom the Nationmaster stats on crime.
Also, just for your own information, I'm an American living in Athens, and I feel so much safer here than I did in the U.S. that there is really no comparison... But what you need to be aware of when you do travel, is that you may be much more at risk from your "own kind". Rapes, violent assaults, and accidental deaths (death by misadventure) are a real problem here among young holidaying Brits in the islands, for example, mostly due to binge drinking. And of course, London, Paris and Athens are all big cities, so you need to exercise the basic street smarts that anyone needs to use in NYC or Chicago, etc.
And of course, affluent tourists really, really aren't the demographic victim for sex-trafficking, which exploits the poorest and most desperate: displaced persons, refugees, runaways, people from countries that have been devastated by war or other disasters. Wikipedia on human trafficking.
Really, though, traveling with your friend from Romania sounds like fun and will save some worry for your mom, who is not likely to be reassured by statistics and pie charts... so why not plot the course of least resistance and just find someone to travel with on the flight to wherever your friend can meet you? In other words, put your feelers out for other people (probably another student) planning to fly to one of the cities you want to visit. A good way to do that is to check out foreign students at your university who will likely be flying home for the summer (or whatever holiday you are planning your trip for). Voila! A flight travelling companion to satisfy your mom and someone to give you great tips about the country you are planning to visit - and they'll probably be happy to have a bit of company on the long fight. If you wanted to meet your friend in Athens, for example, get in touch with some of the Greek students at your school (they will pretty much all know each other) and let them know you are looking out for someone who is planning to fly to Athens in the general time period you are looking at. Greek students will be very understanding about overprotective moms. :)
posted by taz at 2:06 AM on March 14, 2009
Also, just for your own information, I'm an American living in Athens, and I feel so much safer here than I did in the U.S. that there is really no comparison... But what you need to be aware of when you do travel, is that you may be much more at risk from your "own kind". Rapes, violent assaults, and accidental deaths (death by misadventure) are a real problem here among young holidaying Brits in the islands, for example, mostly due to binge drinking. And of course, London, Paris and Athens are all big cities, so you need to exercise the basic street smarts that anyone needs to use in NYC or Chicago, etc.
And of course, affluent tourists really, really aren't the demographic victim for sex-trafficking, which exploits the poorest and most desperate: displaced persons, refugees, runaways, people from countries that have been devastated by war or other disasters. Wikipedia on human trafficking.
Really, though, traveling with your friend from Romania sounds like fun and will save some worry for your mom, who is not likely to be reassured by statistics and pie charts... so why not plot the course of least resistance and just find someone to travel with on the flight to wherever your friend can meet you? In other words, put your feelers out for other people (probably another student) planning to fly to one of the cities you want to visit. A good way to do that is to check out foreign students at your university who will likely be flying home for the summer (or whatever holiday you are planning your trip for). Voila! A flight travelling companion to satisfy your mom and someone to give you great tips about the country you are planning to visit - and they'll probably be happy to have a bit of company on the long fight. If you wanted to meet your friend in Athens, for example, get in touch with some of the Greek students at your school (they will pretty much all know each other) and let them know you are looking out for someone who is planning to fly to Athens in the general time period you are looking at. Greek students will be very understanding about overprotective moms. :)
posted by taz at 2:06 AM on March 14, 2009
I'm sorry, you won't be able to convince her. She thinks foreign lands are heathen and horrible. Her fear is completely irrational. Does he know anyone, or know anyone who knows anyone how has been "trafficked"? No. Very simply "NO". She does not. But despire that she is afraid for you because she loves you and has seen too many movies and is afraid that her love will meet the deepest stupid plot of the movies she has seem.
Just go. Enjoy the hell out of it. Even if you go and get .. uh.. trafficked.. by swarthy foreigners.. (whatever the hell that means) she'll still love you and still pay your tuition and give you hugs whenever you want.
posted by Ookseer at 2:21 AM on March 14, 2009
Just go. Enjoy the hell out of it. Even if you go and get .. uh.. trafficked.. by swarthy foreigners.. (whatever the hell that means) she'll still love you and still pay your tuition and give you hugs whenever you want.
posted by Ookseer at 2:21 AM on March 14, 2009
You might show your mom the Nationmaster stats on crime.
Uh, did you actually look at the graphs on that link? Not that I know anything about Nationmaster or how those statistics are collected (do all countries really handle crime reporting in such a similar way that these numbers can be compared fairly?), but according to that page, the UK has more crimes than the United States per capita.
posted by puffin at 5:03 AM on March 14, 2009
Uh, did you actually look at the graphs on that link? Not that I know anything about Nationmaster or how those statistics are collected (do all countries really handle crime reporting in such a similar way that these numbers can be compared fairly?), but according to that page, the UK has more crimes than the United States per capita.
posted by puffin at 5:03 AM on March 14, 2009
but according to that page, the UK has more crimes than the United States per capita
I don't have time to go fetch the stats right now, but it has more petty crime and less violent crime. You may get mugged or (more likely) get your bag yanked, but you are highly unlikely to be murdered.
posted by DarlingBri at 5:25 AM on March 14, 2009
I don't have time to go fetch the stats right now, but it has more petty crime and less violent crime. You may get mugged or (more likely) get your bag yanked, but you are highly unlikely to be murdered.
posted by DarlingBri at 5:25 AM on March 14, 2009
As already recommended: go back to school and then spend a semester studying abroad. If your school doesn't have a study-abroad program, transfer to a school that does. That way…
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 5:46 AM on March 14, 2009
- You can really experience a foreign country, instead of being a day-tripping tourist
- Your parents can't argue with it
- You're actually earning credits the whole time
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 5:46 AM on March 14, 2009
You're right, puffin, I was looking at the overall number, instead of per capita, but nationmaster offers helpful breakdowns: in rapes per capita, assaults per capita, and murder per capita, the countries kldickson is interested in visiting are all lower than the United States... so our poster's mom should really be urging her to leave the country, asap!
But, seriously, while these might be somewhat helpful, the fact remains that an unseasoned visitor will always be at more risk than a native; people who've lived in big cities will do better in other big cities than those who haven't; and women traveling alone anywhere face more danger than men do - which is why I think that some of this info might help slightly with misconceptions on her mom's part, but won't really reassure her practical mom-mind enough that's she'll be totally cool with it. If the poster travels abroad for the first time with a friend, she'll be in a great position to travel alone, more knowledgeably, later.
posted by taz at 6:15 AM on March 14, 2009
But, seriously, while these might be somewhat helpful, the fact remains that an unseasoned visitor will always be at more risk than a native; people who've lived in big cities will do better in other big cities than those who haven't; and women traveling alone anywhere face more danger than men do - which is why I think that some of this info might help slightly with misconceptions on her mom's part, but won't really reassure her practical mom-mind enough that's she'll be totally cool with it. If the poster travels abroad for the first time with a friend, she'll be in a great position to travel alone, more knowledgeably, later.
posted by taz at 6:15 AM on March 14, 2009
The answer to your question has more to do with your relationship with your mother than it does with UK crime statistics.
Besides, it's a fact that even if you wait until you are 40 to make the trip, your mother will worry.
How much solo traveling experience do you have? Have you shown your parents that you know how to handle the inevitable problems of travel?
How much planning have you done? Do you have an itinerary? A handle on cost? (Always more than anticipated.) Are you planning on staying at hostels, B&B's, or hotels? Got your passport? What about your credit cards? What's their limit and will they work in the UK? Will your ATM card work at a UK bank? Which one?
I'm suggesting that plying your mother with statistics and anecdotal reports won't work, but that showing her you've got your head wrapped around this thing might. Prepare a plan: Flights, itinerary, where you'll be staying, how your parents can contact you and vice-versa (promise to call them daily), the current exchange rate, etc. Be seen doing a lot of research on the web and buy a few books. Find out what an Oyster Card is and why you want one. (Don't go to London and just plan on blundering around.) BE abe to say: Look, mom, these neighborhoods might be a bit dicey, so I won't go there.)
Parents worry about money. Convince them you can cover the costs and won't be calling them in the middle of the night asking them to send money. (On the other hand, show them you know how to get emergency cash, even if it has to come from them. For example, what would you do if you lost your wallet with your cards and cash? Or your passport? Answer: Most major card issuers have a 24/7 toll-free international number you can call. Get it and don't put it with your cards. Ask the card companies if they can provide an emergency cash advance of you lose you card. Most can wire money to a local bank and make arrangments for you to pick it up. Lost passport: Get thee to the American Embassy, quickly.)
All that said, London is a safe and wonderful city. I've lived in or spent time in a number of global cities and felt safest and most secure in London. The West End and the other major attractions are safe. Use common big-city sense there and elsewhere. It's safe to be out and about at night in the West End and other crowded parts of the city. Be aware that pickpockets do exist. There's no particular reason for you to be wandering alone at night in many parts of the city, anyway.
It's a fabulous walking city (check www.walks.com for info about their group guided walks of London. A very good deal, and being with other people for a few hours will comfort your mother. Recommended.) And wear comfortable walking shoes. Don't buy new shoes a week before departure. Running shoes are fine. Locals call them "trainers."
posted by justcorbly at 6:21 AM on March 14, 2009 [1 favorite]
Besides, it's a fact that even if you wait until you are 40 to make the trip, your mother will worry.
How much solo traveling experience do you have? Have you shown your parents that you know how to handle the inevitable problems of travel?
How much planning have you done? Do you have an itinerary? A handle on cost? (Always more than anticipated.) Are you planning on staying at hostels, B&B's, or hotels? Got your passport? What about your credit cards? What's their limit and will they work in the UK? Will your ATM card work at a UK bank? Which one?
I'm suggesting that plying your mother with statistics and anecdotal reports won't work, but that showing her you've got your head wrapped around this thing might. Prepare a plan: Flights, itinerary, where you'll be staying, how your parents can contact you and vice-versa (promise to call them daily), the current exchange rate, etc. Be seen doing a lot of research on the web and buy a few books. Find out what an Oyster Card is and why you want one. (Don't go to London and just plan on blundering around.) BE abe to say: Look, mom, these neighborhoods might be a bit dicey, so I won't go there.)
Parents worry about money. Convince them you can cover the costs and won't be calling them in the middle of the night asking them to send money. (On the other hand, show them you know how to get emergency cash, even if it has to come from them. For example, what would you do if you lost your wallet with your cards and cash? Or your passport? Answer: Most major card issuers have a 24/7 toll-free international number you can call. Get it and don't put it with your cards. Ask the card companies if they can provide an emergency cash advance of you lose you card. Most can wire money to a local bank and make arrangments for you to pick it up. Lost passport: Get thee to the American Embassy, quickly.)
All that said, London is a safe and wonderful city. I've lived in or spent time in a number of global cities and felt safest and most secure in London. The West End and the other major attractions are safe. Use common big-city sense there and elsewhere. It's safe to be out and about at night in the West End and other crowded parts of the city. Be aware that pickpockets do exist. There's no particular reason for you to be wandering alone at night in many parts of the city, anyway.
It's a fabulous walking city (check www.walks.com for info about their group guided walks of London. A very good deal, and being with other people for a few hours will comfort your mother. Recommended.) And wear comfortable walking shoes. Don't buy new shoes a week before departure. Running shoes are fine. Locals call them "trainers."
posted by justcorbly at 6:21 AM on March 14, 2009 [1 favorite]
The argument that "... other kids do it all the time!" has never gone very far to reassure parents. It has the opposite effect, actually.
The fact that you are 20 years old and in college doesn't really tell us how suited you would be to traveling alone. Have you travelled alone in a large city of your own country yet? You need to prove to your mum that you've really researched the dangers. Your biggest concern should be drinking too much with other male travelers.
posted by bonobothegreat at 9:03 AM on March 14, 2009
The fact that you are 20 years old and in college doesn't really tell us how suited you would be to traveling alone. Have you travelled alone in a large city of your own country yet? You need to prove to your mum that you've really researched the dangers. Your biggest concern should be drinking too much with other male travelers.
posted by bonobothegreat at 9:03 AM on March 14, 2009
You're right, puffin, I was looking at the overall number, instead of per capita, but nationmaster offers helpful breakdowns: in rapes per capita, assaults per capita, and murder per capita, the countries kldickson is interested in visiting are all lower than the United States... so our poster's mom should really be urging her to leave the country, asap!
DarlingBri: I agree! I think the mother's worry is unfounded. Just wanted to avoid pointing the poster to statistics which might not help her case.
posted by puffin at 10:05 AM on March 14, 2009
DarlingBri: I agree! I think the mother's worry is unfounded. Just wanted to avoid pointing the poster to statistics which might not help her case.
posted by puffin at 10:05 AM on March 14, 2009
Response by poster: I've traveled alone in large cities in the US by myself and I'm not a huge drinker (i.e. I can't stomach the taste of alcohol much, so I've never been drunk). Also, I don't tend to be the sort who becomes buddy-buddy really quick with people I don't know.
I also go to college half the country away (UW-Madison), but for some reason, that hasn't convinced Mom I'll be fine.
posted by kldickson at 10:07 AM on March 14, 2009
I also go to college half the country away (UW-Madison), but for some reason, that hasn't convinced Mom I'll be fine.
posted by kldickson at 10:07 AM on March 14, 2009
Response by poster: I do think it rather odd that Mom doesn't care if I traipse all over the country (on my own dime, of course), but even if some city in another country is about ten times safer than any city in the US, she's against me going there alone.
posted by kldickson at 10:09 AM on March 14, 2009
posted by kldickson at 10:09 AM on March 14, 2009
Maybe a solo trip of decent length in the U.S. would go a fair way to lightening her up about doing the same abroad.
I really like justcorbly's suggestions about demonstrating your ability to do the planning. Assume that you're going to go, whether it ends up being after graduation or before, and start doing the research. Read the guidebooks and message boards, start saving money, learn about travel insurance, get your passport, talk about trip plans. Do it all visibly, sitting at the dining room table or whatever, so she can see you're absolutely serious, though you may be flexible about when it happens. Everything may become easier to discuss if this is more of a 'when' than an 'if,' and if you could really show that you are doing your homework, that you're serious and that this is not just a whim, it may build her confidence that you can handle the risks of foreign travel.
It's a little odd that she is less concerned about the US than other countries, but not enormously odd. Foreign travel is a different kettle of fish - the legal systems are different, the financial systems are different, and if you run into trouble, you need a whole different kind of help. Apaprently stupid things like being in a barroom where gambling is going on at the moment the police arrive can pose a set of really sticky issues in another country that they won't in the US. Stuff like that. Learn about it and know your resources and show that you will be a very aware traveler. Of course there are a million resources for this - start with a reference librarian. One good thing to know about are the US State Department Traveler Advisories and consular bulletins.
posted by Miko at 10:22 AM on March 14, 2009
I really like justcorbly's suggestions about demonstrating your ability to do the planning. Assume that you're going to go, whether it ends up being after graduation or before, and start doing the research. Read the guidebooks and message boards, start saving money, learn about travel insurance, get your passport, talk about trip plans. Do it all visibly, sitting at the dining room table or whatever, so she can see you're absolutely serious, though you may be flexible about when it happens. Everything may become easier to discuss if this is more of a 'when' than an 'if,' and if you could really show that you are doing your homework, that you're serious and that this is not just a whim, it may build her confidence that you can handle the risks of foreign travel.
It's a little odd that she is less concerned about the US than other countries, but not enormously odd. Foreign travel is a different kettle of fish - the legal systems are different, the financial systems are different, and if you run into trouble, you need a whole different kind of help. Apaprently stupid things like being in a barroom where gambling is going on at the moment the police arrive can pose a set of really sticky issues in another country that they won't in the US. Stuff like that. Learn about it and know your resources and show that you will be a very aware traveler. Of course there are a million resources for this - start with a reference librarian. One good thing to know about are the US State Department Traveler Advisories and consular bulletins.
posted by Miko at 10:22 AM on March 14, 2009
And Country Specific Information sheets. God, the Internet is so awesome. I remember when I had to go to the library to look these up in a giant binder updated quarterly, and xerox the relevant info.
posted by Miko at 10:24 AM on March 14, 2009
posted by Miko at 10:24 AM on March 14, 2009
Well, if you have travelled around the country by yourself, part of your Mum's problem might be a bit of OCD/superstition. Ask her if she's had a nasty dream that she's afraid will come true.
Is it only the fact that you'd be alone? Could it be that subconsciously, your mum might consider this proposed trip a reckless extravagance (given the economic turmoil going on right now and the fact that they've worked hard to pay your tuition)? Find out if your Mum even had the opportunity to take a trip like this when she was your age. That might be colouring her opinion of it. The idea of "just go!" and face the consequences later is a bad one...very spoiled and very "douch-baggy" if you ask me. I had a comfortable working/middleclass upbringing and being Canadian, enjoyed very cheap tuition in the 80's but I never had the extra money to go to Europe and Asia until I was working and paid my own way.
We're all human, sometimes we get excited and have to have a certain thing right now. Given your circumstances, plan to go next year. That will give you time to find a companion (and you can agree to ditch each other after the first few days if you like).
posted by bonobothegreat at 12:25 PM on March 14, 2009
Is it only the fact that you'd be alone? Could it be that subconsciously, your mum might consider this proposed trip a reckless extravagance (given the economic turmoil going on right now and the fact that they've worked hard to pay your tuition)? Find out if your Mum even had the opportunity to take a trip like this when she was your age. That might be colouring her opinion of it. The idea of "just go!" and face the consequences later is a bad one...very spoiled and very "douch-baggy" if you ask me. I had a comfortable working/middleclass upbringing and being Canadian, enjoyed very cheap tuition in the 80's but I never had the extra money to go to Europe and Asia until I was working and paid my own way.
We're all human, sometimes we get excited and have to have a certain thing right now. Given your circumstances, plan to go next year. That will give you time to find a companion (and you can agree to ditch each other after the first few days if you like).
posted by bonobothegreat at 12:25 PM on March 14, 2009
Response by poster: bonobothegreat, from what I mentioned to my mother, she seems to be pretty much unconvincable. I've told her it's on my own dime, which right now is partially coming from selling some crap that needs to be sold, which will amount to approximately $2000 by the time I sell it all, and will probably also partially come from whatever part-time employment I can scrape up this summer (most of it will go toward tuition) and I've shown her all the statistics I can pull up, but she for some reason won't be swayed by statistics. I suspect it's just unfounded fear, in which case, I might just gradually pull up the statistics again every time she mentions it. I've already emailed them to her. I'll just have to wear her down.
She also doesn't know what I'd do if I got in trouble (which in some ways is indeed a concern; what if something happens where I end up in the hospital? I do know, however, how to get basic health care over there, and I know where to find information about the police, embassies, and transport.
I can't do anything about my mother's own irrationality except remind her when she's being an idiot.
posted by kldickson at 1:29 PM on March 14, 2009
She also doesn't know what I'd do if I got in trouble (which in some ways is indeed a concern; what if something happens where I end up in the hospital? I do know, however, how to get basic health care over there, and I know where to find information about the police, embassies, and transport.
I can't do anything about my mother's own irrationality except remind her when she's being an idiot.
posted by kldickson at 1:29 PM on March 14, 2009
whatever part-time employment I can scrape up this summer
Why only part-time? Will you also be in class?
Honestly, it seems like the biggest hurdle is that you and your family can't afford this.
posted by Miko at 1:50 PM on March 14, 2009
Why only part-time? Will you also be in class?
Honestly, it seems like the biggest hurdle is that you and your family can't afford this.
posted by Miko at 1:50 PM on March 14, 2009
I was a mother with this situation (not the controlling-my-child part. The precious baby is going to live her own life in another freaking country part. I fully admit that I have no control over my children).
So I have a certain amount of sympathy with your mother's fears. My daughter has been traveling overseas for work for two years. She left at the age of 18 years and 3 months. Yes, I fear her getting trafficked. It is completely utterly irrational but I can't help it. She strongly encouraged me to get onto Facebook and friend her, so that I could keep an eye on what she is doing. She understands that I sometimes freak out if there has been no activity for several days, even though I know this is because there is no free internet in whatever ridiculous asian country she's in this week, and that I will start emailing her boyfriend to tell her to call me. They just put up with this (really, what harm can I do?)
Get your mom on Facebook. Get Skype. Get international calling on your cell plan (it will cost a fortune, but may calm her fears). Get her into texting, which is cheaper internationally. I can't tell you how technical connectivity has helped me deal with my baby girl travelling to scary places (like Vancouver, Tokyo, Hong Kong Singapore, London, Paris, Rome, you get the picture. If it's not Evanston Illinois, it's freaking scary because she's just a BABY.)
Tell her to MeMail me if she has any questions. Then, when your identity gets stolen, Nigerian princes empty out your bank account and you get trafficked to Bulgaria, she can blame me.
posted by nax at 5:43 PM on March 14, 2009
So I have a certain amount of sympathy with your mother's fears. My daughter has been traveling overseas for work for two years. She left at the age of 18 years and 3 months. Yes, I fear her getting trafficked. It is completely utterly irrational but I can't help it. She strongly encouraged me to get onto Facebook and friend her, so that I could keep an eye on what she is doing. She understands that I sometimes freak out if there has been no activity for several days, even though I know this is because there is no free internet in whatever ridiculous asian country she's in this week, and that I will start emailing her boyfriend to tell her to call me. They just put up with this (really, what harm can I do?)
Get your mom on Facebook. Get Skype. Get international calling on your cell plan (it will cost a fortune, but may calm her fears). Get her into texting, which is cheaper internationally. I can't tell you how technical connectivity has helped me deal with my baby girl travelling to scary places (like Vancouver, Tokyo, Hong Kong Singapore, London, Paris, Rome, you get the picture. If it's not Evanston Illinois, it's freaking scary because she's just a BABY.)
Tell her to MeMail me if she has any questions. Then, when your identity gets stolen, Nigerian princes empty out your bank account and you get trafficked to Bulgaria, she can blame me.
posted by nax at 5:43 PM on March 14, 2009
Also, what some other people said. Does it have to be on your own? Can't you do a study-abroad program? These will have plenty of opportunities to go around on your own, plus what can she do once you're there? (You can see why I have no control over my children.)
posted by nax at 5:46 PM on March 14, 2009
posted by nax at 5:46 PM on March 14, 2009
I'm just saying that in the back of her mind, she might feel that your education is a family expense and she might consider it immature for you to trot off to spend a big chunk of change on a vacation before your education is anywhere near finished (ie -money you spend on luxuries now, needs to be made up by your parent's hard-earned funds at some point).
It may not be helpful to for me to read so much into it. I'm just saying that unless you can afford to pay for your education without any help, you should probably respect her concerns.
I can't do anything about my mother's own irrationality except remind her when she's being an idiot.... just do what others have suggested, spend some time planning well for next year, limit it to one country or region, find a somebody to go with, consider an overseas language study course. Try to frame it as something other than "I want to spend thousands of dollars that could be going towards my education in order to disappear to the other side of the world by myself for a holiday and you are such an idiot for worrying about that."
posted by bonobothegreat at 6:59 PM on March 14, 2009
It may not be helpful to for me to read so much into it. I'm just saying that unless you can afford to pay for your education without any help, you should probably respect her concerns.
I can't do anything about my mother's own irrationality except remind her when she's being an idiot.... just do what others have suggested, spend some time planning well for next year, limit it to one country or region, find a somebody to go with, consider an overseas language study course. Try to frame it as something other than "I want to spend thousands of dollars that could be going towards my education in order to disappear to the other side of the world by myself for a holiday and you are such an idiot for worrying about that."
posted by bonobothegreat at 6:59 PM on March 14, 2009
I think you're going to have to suck it up and bring a friend. Sorry. Crazy mom + control of tuition is not worthy fighting about, because you're not gonna win.
posted by jenfullmoon at 7:28 PM on March 14, 2009
posted by jenfullmoon at 7:28 PM on March 14, 2009
This all boils down to compromise. Your mother is willing to do it and you aren't. She didn't say you couldn't go at all, she agreed to let* you go if you get a companion to travel with. You are the one insisting on going alone and doing it on your terms. If you really, really have to go to Europe during undergrad and you really, really need their help with tuition, then compromise and find someone to go with or join a group as already mentioned.
*continue paying your tuition
posted by NoraCharles at 8:09 PM on March 14, 2009 [3 favorites]
*continue paying your tuition
posted by NoraCharles at 8:09 PM on March 14, 2009 [3 favorites]
If you are free to travel, do it now. Later may be too late.
—Roger Ebert
posted by exphysicist345 at 11:30 PM on March 16, 2009
—Roger Ebert
posted by exphysicist345 at 11:30 PM on March 16, 2009
This thread is closed to new comments.
However, you are 20, and don't need to do everything your mother says.
posted by aubilenon at 3:42 PM on March 13, 2009 [1 favorite]