Have differing views on monogamy killed our relationship?
March 11, 2009 1:35 PM Subscribe
Should I compromise on monogamy? Can I help her compromise? Or should we call the whole thing off?
Background: I am a man in my early 30s, she is in her late 20s. We got together seven months ago, after being friends for over two years. It was an intense relationship from the start - she's a single mom, and the ex of a friend.
The first few weeks were great. We have a huge amount in common, are very attracted to each other, and in many ways great partners. But after a month or so, she started feeling trapped in the relationship, and struggling to resist the urge to sleep with other men. She got drunk one night and slept with a co-worker. It wasn't strictly cheating, as we hadn't defined the relationship as exclusive at that point, and she was very honest about it afterwards.
That said, I am definitely not in the market for an open relationship, (and have a tendency to be quite jealous and possessive by nature - currently in therapy to address this), so this caused a lot of tension to the point where we broke up. For a few days, we both felt liberated and relieved. But then the pain of loss started creeping in. The space let us realize what we meant to each other, and within a week we blissfully reunited.
All was good, until the pattern started repeating itself. She started feeling trapped again, I started feeling insecure. We fed each other's dark side - she'd continue hanging out with a guy she slept with, making me more paranoid.
No less than four times in seven months we broke up and reunited. Always for the same reason - she wouldn't compromise on monogamy, I wouldn't compromise on an open relationship. Not for lack of trying. One night she slept with her co-worker friend, then came round to my house, told me what she'd done, and we had sex. It was cool that night, but the next day I freaked out. Whilst she totally assures me (and I believe her) that she has no feelings for this guy other than physical ones and the feeling of liberty and empowerment she gets from sleeping around, I find it impossible to separate sex and love to that extent. I hate one night stands. She likes them.
The frustrating thing is that this is literally the only serious mismatch we have. In all other matters we are very compatible, very in love, great sex, I get on well with her kid, we make each other very happy. It is only with the perspective of a break that this one problem seems surmountable. When we are together, the tension builds up, and the pattern repeats.
I finally called things off for good two weeks ago. I asked her, respectfully, not to contact me, as that is the only way we can progress. It's been hell - really painful heartbreak. But I have been making some progress and feeling optimistic again.
Then, yesterday, she texted me begging me to call her, saying she was panicking. I called, and she explained how difficult she was finding life without me, and how much she loves me. I told her I was no longer in love with her, but that is a lie. We agreed to meet in a neutral place for a coffee next week. I made it clear this was not a window to get back together, but I do want to stay friends (and I miss her child). I'm hoping we can be grown up about it.
So here's my dilemma. I love her. She genuinely feels like 'the one'. I can imagine spending the rest of my life with her (if we can break the destructive pattern, of course). But doing this will mean one of us compromising forever - either she will have to resist the urge to sleep with others, or I will have to become a lot more cool with polyamory. She has hinted that marriage would give her the incentive to change, but that sounds like fast-track to divorce to me.
My question is this. Should I give up on this, face the pain, and move on? Should I compromise? Is there anything I can do to help her compromise?
We feel EXACTLY like Joel and Clementine at the end of Eternal Sunshine. I think I need the hive mind to give the unambiguous advice that the film falls short in giving.
Joel: I don't see anything I don't like about you.
Clementine: But you will! But you will, and I'll get bored with you and feel trapped, because that's what happens with me.
Joel: Okay.
Clementine: Okay.
Joel: Okay.
Really? OK?
Temp email: thatswhathappenswithme@gmail.com
Background: I am a man in my early 30s, she is in her late 20s. We got together seven months ago, after being friends for over two years. It was an intense relationship from the start - she's a single mom, and the ex of a friend.
The first few weeks were great. We have a huge amount in common, are very attracted to each other, and in many ways great partners. But after a month or so, she started feeling trapped in the relationship, and struggling to resist the urge to sleep with other men. She got drunk one night and slept with a co-worker. It wasn't strictly cheating, as we hadn't defined the relationship as exclusive at that point, and she was very honest about it afterwards.
That said, I am definitely not in the market for an open relationship, (and have a tendency to be quite jealous and possessive by nature - currently in therapy to address this), so this caused a lot of tension to the point where we broke up. For a few days, we both felt liberated and relieved. But then the pain of loss started creeping in. The space let us realize what we meant to each other, and within a week we blissfully reunited.
All was good, until the pattern started repeating itself. She started feeling trapped again, I started feeling insecure. We fed each other's dark side - she'd continue hanging out with a guy she slept with, making me more paranoid.
No less than four times in seven months we broke up and reunited. Always for the same reason - she wouldn't compromise on monogamy, I wouldn't compromise on an open relationship. Not for lack of trying. One night she slept with her co-worker friend, then came round to my house, told me what she'd done, and we had sex. It was cool that night, but the next day I freaked out. Whilst she totally assures me (and I believe her) that she has no feelings for this guy other than physical ones and the feeling of liberty and empowerment she gets from sleeping around, I find it impossible to separate sex and love to that extent. I hate one night stands. She likes them.
The frustrating thing is that this is literally the only serious mismatch we have. In all other matters we are very compatible, very in love, great sex, I get on well with her kid, we make each other very happy. It is only with the perspective of a break that this one problem seems surmountable. When we are together, the tension builds up, and the pattern repeats.
I finally called things off for good two weeks ago. I asked her, respectfully, not to contact me, as that is the only way we can progress. It's been hell - really painful heartbreak. But I have been making some progress and feeling optimistic again.
Then, yesterday, she texted me begging me to call her, saying she was panicking. I called, and she explained how difficult she was finding life without me, and how much she loves me. I told her I was no longer in love with her, but that is a lie. We agreed to meet in a neutral place for a coffee next week. I made it clear this was not a window to get back together, but I do want to stay friends (and I miss her child). I'm hoping we can be grown up about it.
So here's my dilemma. I love her. She genuinely feels like 'the one'. I can imagine spending the rest of my life with her (if we can break the destructive pattern, of course). But doing this will mean one of us compromising forever - either she will have to resist the urge to sleep with others, or I will have to become a lot more cool with polyamory. She has hinted that marriage would give her the incentive to change, but that sounds like fast-track to divorce to me.
My question is this. Should I give up on this, face the pain, and move on? Should I compromise? Is there anything I can do to help her compromise?
We feel EXACTLY like Joel and Clementine at the end of Eternal Sunshine. I think I need the hive mind to give the unambiguous advice that the film falls short in giving.
Joel: I don't see anything I don't like about you.
Clementine: But you will! But you will, and I'll get bored with you and feel trapped, because that's what happens with me.
Joel: Okay.
Clementine: Okay.
Joel: Okay.
Really? OK?
Temp email: thatswhathappenswithme@gmail.com
It sounds like you have the question answered. . .hurt some now, move on. You seem to know yourself and know what you want/need in a relationship, and that's a good thing.
If you try to adjust to her behavior, I might be like a frog in a pot, starting out in room temperature water, but that water is getting heated and it will boil soon.
posted by Danf at 1:39 PM on March 11, 2009
If you try to adjust to her behavior, I might be like a frog in a pot, starting out in room temperature water, but that water is getting heated and it will boil soon.
posted by Danf at 1:39 PM on March 11, 2009
She repeatedly cheats on you, and shows no signs of stopping. She is not "the one." Move on.
posted by monju_bosatsu at 1:39 PM on March 11, 2009 [18 favorites]
posted by monju_bosatsu at 1:39 PM on March 11, 2009 [18 favorites]
Let her sleep with as many men as she wants. Let her cheat on as many men as she wants. You can do better. Move on.
posted by 2oh1 at 1:43 PM on March 11, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by 2oh1 at 1:43 PM on March 11, 2009 [1 favorite]
Not much more to add except that you will never, deep down in your heart, be able to trust her. Ever.
posted by trinity8-director at 1:44 PM on March 11, 2009 [3 favorites]
posted by trinity8-director at 1:44 PM on March 11, 2009 [3 favorites]
How long has she been divorced from your friend? Is it in her nature to cheat, where she'd been doing it all along, or is this more of a "sowing her wild oats" thing after being married and baby-fied for years? That might make a difference in how long she'll continue this cycle.
posted by scarykarrey at 1:46 PM on March 11, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by scarykarrey at 1:46 PM on March 11, 2009 [1 favorite]
She knows it's a dealbreaker, but she keeps doing it
She knows it's a dealbreaker, but she keeps doing it
She knows it's a dealbreaker, but she keeps doing it
I don't know how this isn't the end of the discussion. You want to stay with a woman who doesn't respect you? Who keeps hurting you deliberately and refuses to stop?
DTMFA, lose her number, and read No More Mr. Nice Guy by Robert Glover.
posted by Zozo at 1:47 PM on March 11, 2009 [4 favorites]
She knows it's a dealbreaker, but she keeps doing it
She knows it's a dealbreaker, but she keeps doing it
I don't know how this isn't the end of the discussion. You want to stay with a woman who doesn't respect you? Who keeps hurting you deliberately and refuses to stop?
DTMFA, lose her number, and read No More Mr. Nice Guy by Robert Glover.
posted by Zozo at 1:47 PM on March 11, 2009 [4 favorites]
I broke up with someone for sort of similar reasons. I am just not wired for more than one partner. Even adjusting for the safe sex issue, it frankly grossed me out. People want what they want, not everyone is on the same page. You and this woman are not. But there are other women out there that will think you and only you are awesome. Look for that woman.
posted by Maisie Jay at 1:48 PM on March 11, 2009
posted by Maisie Jay at 1:48 PM on March 11, 2009
Her repeated behavior which she knows to be quite hurtful to you shows both an incompatibility and an insensitivity which will likely doom any long term relationship between the two of you.
posted by caddis at 1:49 PM on March 11, 2009
posted by caddis at 1:49 PM on March 11, 2009
She may be after the "high" of making up, but any way you slice it she's chosen the role of dealbreaker. Sounds like she's the one needing therapy.
posted by weapons-grade pandemonium at 1:49 PM on March 11, 2009
posted by weapons-grade pandemonium at 1:49 PM on March 11, 2009
I have no idea what "Eternal Sunshine" is, but there are lots of "the one"s. You can have yours and she can have hers. Just stress complete discretion for all involved and you will be ok. This arrangement has worked for me for almost 5 years now.
You can love more than one girl at a time, despite what all of the prudes forcing their morality on you say.
So, I would suggest you start seeing other women and go back to this woman you're talking about.
You can be a responsible adult- and have your cake and eat it too. What's stopping you, besides social pressure.
posted by Zambrano at 1:50 PM on March 11, 2009
I wonder if her affairs are just about a desire to have sex with multiple partners or if it is a fear of commitment, of being trapped. You seem to be looking for a life partner - I have doubts about her capacity to do that with anyone at this stage in life. I'm suggesting that even if you agreed to an open-relationship, she would be on-again-off-again with you rather than a consistent partner with additional relationships on the side. So, giving in would not even get you what you want. Unless you like constant drama and frequent break-ups, you need to walk away from this "almost perfect" relationship.
ps. She is going to call on you when she feels insecure and lonely. I think it would be extremely difficult to be friends with her given the way you feel right now. Face the pain, move on and maybe in year see if it is possible to be just friends. And yes, it will be painful but so is staying in an "almost" relationship that keeps breaking your heart.
posted by metahawk at 1:50 PM on March 11, 2009 [2 favorites]
ps. She is going to call on you when she feels insecure and lonely. I think it would be extremely difficult to be friends with her given the way you feel right now. Face the pain, move on and maybe in year see if it is possible to be just friends. And yes, it will be painful but so is staying in an "almost" relationship that keeps breaking your heart.
posted by metahawk at 1:50 PM on March 11, 2009 [2 favorites]
Okay, I was addressing her motives rather than the actual issue. I, too, would never be able to trust a partner who chooses to continue behavior that is destructive to the relationship again and again. Find a girl who wants monogamy. There are plenty of us out there.
posted by scarykarrey at 1:51 PM on March 11, 2009
posted by scarykarrey at 1:51 PM on March 11, 2009
Take it, if you can, from someone who was once married to a woman who acted this way: you do not want this. She's upset because she hasn't gotten over you in 2 weeks, but she is capable of hurting you in ways that would take years to heal. Feel sorry for her, but don't let her back in.
posted by jon1270 at 1:54 PM on March 11, 2009 [2 favorites]
posted by jon1270 at 1:54 PM on March 11, 2009 [2 favorites]
A question you need to ask yourself, honestly: are you really trying to "break the destructive pattern", or are you sorta kinda enabling it? Are you as compulsively drawn to the process of getting back together as she is to her one-night stands? Is that "dark-side" thing actually an integral part of the relationship, albeit in ways that aren't healthy (in so many ways)?
Anyway, for comic relief, watch the latest episode of How I Met Your Mother, which actually touches on this theme. Sorry, bro.
posted by holgate at 1:57 PM on March 11, 2009
Anyway, for comic relief, watch the latest episode of How I Met Your Mother, which actually touches on this theme. Sorry, bro.
posted by holgate at 1:57 PM on March 11, 2009
You're already facing the pain. Heck, you're living in it. Breaking up with her is how you finish facing the pain.
posted by rhizome at 1:59 PM on March 11, 2009
posted by rhizome at 1:59 PM on March 11, 2009
What a horribly depressing worldview it is to believe that "The One" is someone who, in order to be happy, requires something that makes you exceptionally unhappy. Much less the belief that "The One" is someone who repeatedly violates your trust.
And really, that's the only thing you need to know here. There's something you need to be happy, and she has agreed to that and then broken her word. It doesn't matter if it's sex or Jean Claude Van Damme movies. People in mature, successful relationships work out their differences. What is wrong with your relationship has nothing to do with sex and everything to do with the inability to work out mutually agreeable terms with this woman.
Move on. Be angry if you want; I think you can make a pretty clear case that this person has not handled you very nicely. Simply be sad if you prefer; sometimes things just don't work out and it doesn't really matter if you can assign fault or not.
But move on.
posted by phearlez at 2:03 PM on March 11, 2009 [7 favorites]
And really, that's the only thing you need to know here. There's something you need to be happy, and she has agreed to that and then broken her word. It doesn't matter if it's sex or Jean Claude Van Damme movies. People in mature, successful relationships work out their differences. What is wrong with your relationship has nothing to do with sex and everything to do with the inability to work out mutually agreeable terms with this woman.
Move on. Be angry if you want; I think you can make a pretty clear case that this person has not handled you very nicely. Simply be sad if you prefer; sometimes things just don't work out and it doesn't really matter if you can assign fault or not.
But move on.
posted by phearlez at 2:03 PM on March 11, 2009 [7 favorites]
I will go against the grain here. I get what you're saying about your general compatibility.
I'm NOT going to go so against the grain as to say that you should stay together for sure. But if I was in a relationship this good (other than the one big problem), I would ask my partner to go to couples therapy with me to try to solve the problem. I doubt you and she can handle this on your own, because you're at a stalemate. When you're at a stalemate, you need a mediator. If she's not willing to go to therapy with you, that should be the deal breaker.
One thing for sure: you CAN'T settle. Neither can she. You can SAY you'll settle, but you'll have no control over whether or not you actually can. In other words, you can say, "Honey, it's going to be hard for me, but I'm willing to be in an open marriage, just to be with you." Or, she can say, "Honey, it's going to be hard for me, but I'm willing to be monogamous just to be with you." Great, you've just said nice things to each other but solved nothing. What happens the next time you get jealous? You think you won't because you made a pledge? What happens the next time she feels trapped?
People here seem to like simple answers, and the simple answer is "move on." The more complex answer is EITHER move on OR solve the problem. The wrong answers are "settle" and "hope it goes away once you're married." Won't work.
posted by grumblebee at 2:05 PM on March 11, 2009 [5 favorites]
I'm NOT going to go so against the grain as to say that you should stay together for sure. But if I was in a relationship this good (other than the one big problem), I would ask my partner to go to couples therapy with me to try to solve the problem. I doubt you and she can handle this on your own, because you're at a stalemate. When you're at a stalemate, you need a mediator. If she's not willing to go to therapy with you, that should be the deal breaker.
One thing for sure: you CAN'T settle. Neither can she. You can SAY you'll settle, but you'll have no control over whether or not you actually can. In other words, you can say, "Honey, it's going to be hard for me, but I'm willing to be in an open marriage, just to be with you." Or, she can say, "Honey, it's going to be hard for me, but I'm willing to be monogamous just to be with you." Great, you've just said nice things to each other but solved nothing. What happens the next time you get jealous? You think you won't because you made a pledge? What happens the next time she feels trapped?
People here seem to like simple answers, and the simple answer is "move on." The more complex answer is EITHER move on OR solve the problem. The wrong answers are "settle" and "hope it goes away once you're married." Won't work.
posted by grumblebee at 2:05 PM on March 11, 2009 [5 favorites]
She has hinted that marriage would give her the incentive to change
Buy her a ring and have one of your friends unofficially marry you guys in front of a lot of other friends. Leave the door open to an official marriage in the future if things work in the unofficial one. If she pulls that crap again, then it's done, completely. It may sound odd, but some relationships are unconventional and need unconventional solutions.
Otherwise, drop it and don't have contact with her for at least six months before trying to be friends.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 2:07 PM on March 11, 2009
Buy her a ring and have one of your friends unofficially marry you guys in front of a lot of other friends. Leave the door open to an official marriage in the future if things work in the unofficial one. If she pulls that crap again, then it's done, completely. It may sound odd, but some relationships are unconventional and need unconventional solutions.
Otherwise, drop it and don't have contact with her for at least six months before trying to be friends.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 2:07 PM on March 11, 2009
She has hinted that marriage would give her the incentive to change
People don't just change like that. If you stay with her, it will be the same thing repeated over and over again. You have to decide if it's worth it to torture yourself like that.
posted by qxntpqbbbqxl at 2:14 PM on March 11, 2009 [2 favorites]
People don't just change like that. If you stay with her, it will be the same thing repeated over and over again. You have to decide if it's worth it to torture yourself like that.
posted by qxntpqbbbqxl at 2:14 PM on March 11, 2009 [2 favorites]
The short answer, completely seperate of almost everything you've told us -- the monogamy/"open" question -- is ""You two both may love each other. But she is not what you want. You are not what she wants. It may not be easy. It may hurt a lot. But you'll both be better off if you rip the band-aid off quickly."
The more specific answer based on my own experiences as someone who has been in her shoes with a partner who wanted something else from me but tried to change for my sake: You'll be doing her a favor if you don't try to change for her.
Sorry that this answer sucks and is more painful in the short term.
posted by MCMikeNamara at 2:15 PM on March 11, 2009
The more specific answer based on my own experiences as someone who has been in her shoes with a partner who wanted something else from me but tried to change for my sake: You'll be doing her a favor if you don't try to change for her.
Sorry that this answer sucks and is more painful in the short term.
posted by MCMikeNamara at 2:15 PM on March 11, 2009
Not only is this a dealbreaker/dead relationship, you REALLY can't be friends with this girl without getting back together with her and having her cheat on you again and again. Seriously, STOP ALL COMMUNICATION.
posted by jenfullmoon at 2:22 PM on March 11, 2009 [3 favorites]
posted by jenfullmoon at 2:22 PM on March 11, 2009 [3 favorites]
Keep this in mind, too: she doesn't sound at all like the natural polyamorist. A person for whom multiple partnership is natural and routine achieves this precisely by respecting their boundaries rather than ignoring them. If she can't deal with making an agreement and respecting it with one person, how the hell does she think she's going to do that with many? This is not polyamory. It is cheating.
She sounds like a person who just hasn't thought enough about what relationships mean, who hasn't taken that seriously enough. And she's being manipulative when she suggests that it is your openness that needs to change. The simple fact is that she did something wrong. It sounds as though she's not even willing to admit that she's done something wrong.
You need to start healing. This girl is an unhealthy Medusa, man. Stay away. She's making you feel guilty for having cheated on you - and trust me, any sane polyamorist would be quite stern with her: cheating - lying to someone you're in a relationship about who you're sleeping with or who you intend to sleep with - is wrong. And telling that person that you only did it because you "felt trapped" is manipulating their fragile emotions in order to erase your own faults.
posted by koeselitz at 2:24 PM on March 11, 2009 [11 favorites]
She sounds like a person who just hasn't thought enough about what relationships mean, who hasn't taken that seriously enough. And she's being manipulative when she suggests that it is your openness that needs to change. The simple fact is that she did something wrong. It sounds as though she's not even willing to admit that she's done something wrong.
You need to start healing. This girl is an unhealthy Medusa, man. Stay away. She's making you feel guilty for having cheated on you - and trust me, any sane polyamorist would be quite stern with her: cheating - lying to someone you're in a relationship about who you're sleeping with or who you intend to sleep with - is wrong. And telling that person that you only did it because you "felt trapped" is manipulating their fragile emotions in order to erase your own faults.
posted by koeselitz at 2:24 PM on March 11, 2009 [11 favorites]
Here's someone who has disrespected all your wishes and boundaries -- the cheating, the not-contacting. She says that MAYBE marriage will change that. (Ha!)
Think about that for a while. And if you still think she's The One, go ahead and get used to a lifetime of heartache, 'cause that's mostly what you're going to get.
posted by mudpuppie at 2:29 PM on March 11, 2009
Think about that for a while. And if you still think she's The One, go ahead and get used to a lifetime of heartache, 'cause that's mostly what you're going to get.
posted by mudpuppie at 2:29 PM on March 11, 2009
There are certain things men must do to remain men.
This gal has you under the influence of some lotus leaves. Eternal Sunshine is one of my favorites but I'm sad to see its lessons misapplied in your fuzzy romantic haze. Kate Winslet's bookstore lady has problems, sure, but she was nice to Jim Carrey and didn't try to convince him he had "jealousy issues" because he found it reasonable to have a girlfriend who didn't fuck someone else. You gotta find the self-respect to find it mildly insulting when someone feels "trapped" by having to condescend to being monagamous with you.
posted by Kirklander at 2:33 PM on March 11, 2009 [1 favorite]
This gal has you under the influence of some lotus leaves. Eternal Sunshine is one of my favorites but I'm sad to see its lessons misapplied in your fuzzy romantic haze. Kate Winslet's bookstore lady has problems, sure, but she was nice to Jim Carrey and didn't try to convince him he had "jealousy issues" because he found it reasonable to have a girlfriend who didn't fuck someone else. You gotta find the self-respect to find it mildly insulting when someone feels "trapped" by having to condescend to being monagamous with you.
posted by Kirklander at 2:33 PM on March 11, 2009 [1 favorite]
p.s. I don't see how you were feeding her dark side...?
posted by Kirklander at 2:35 PM on March 11, 2009
posted by Kirklander at 2:35 PM on March 11, 2009
She's playing you for a fool. She says she can't stand being without you, but she won't stop doing the precise thing that hurts you. She wants it both ways.
This will not work. This is not a case for therapy, this is a case where there are plenty of other people you can go after who aren't going to repeatedly do something that they know very well hurts you.
Many problems can be worked out, but this is one she clearly has no interest in fixing. This is not to say that either viewpoint is objectively right, this is to say that you believe in one way, she believes in another, and the two are fundamentally incompatible. However, she is the one causing the problem by acting. She had her chance to change, and she did not. She continued to engage in behavior that hurt you. If she wants to continue with open relationships, she needs to do so with someone who is accepting of that. That is her responsibility.
Drop her. Do not go out and see her, do not listen to her sob stories. Cut off communication, and block her number if you must. That hint at marriage is telling. Troubles like these are to be fixed before marriage, not after. She's trying to keep you under her terms, you don't like those terms. It's not your duty to change those terms, and even if you did, she doesn't deserve it after what she's done to you. You deserve better.
You deserve better.
There are other people out there. DTMFA, and don't look back. There's no "friends" with someone who comes back calling about how they still want to be together. That's only a road of troubles and pain.
posted by Saydur at 2:39 PM on March 11, 2009 [3 favorites]
This will not work. This is not a case for therapy, this is a case where there are plenty of other people you can go after who aren't going to repeatedly do something that they know very well hurts you.
Many problems can be worked out, but this is one she clearly has no interest in fixing. This is not to say that either viewpoint is objectively right, this is to say that you believe in one way, she believes in another, and the two are fundamentally incompatible. However, she is the one causing the problem by acting. She had her chance to change, and she did not. She continued to engage in behavior that hurt you. If she wants to continue with open relationships, she needs to do so with someone who is accepting of that. That is her responsibility.
Drop her. Do not go out and see her, do not listen to her sob stories. Cut off communication, and block her number if you must. That hint at marriage is telling. Troubles like these are to be fixed before marriage, not after. She's trying to keep you under her terms, you don't like those terms. It's not your duty to change those terms, and even if you did, she doesn't deserve it after what she's done to you. You deserve better.
You deserve better.
There are other people out there. DTMFA, and don't look back. There's no "friends" with someone who comes back calling about how they still want to be together. That's only a road of troubles and pain.
posted by Saydur at 2:39 PM on March 11, 2009 [3 favorites]
Basically I agree with all the DTMFA's, but just to chime in with grumblebee on the "wait, maybe maybe it could work" front for a second:
Compromise ON BOTH SIDES would absolutely be required. And is in principle possible, because there are positions in between full-blown monogamy and full-blown open relationships. For example, perhaps you don't want her to sleep with friends or co-workers, but that she could have safe (ha!) sex with strangers. Or, if she is bi, maybe she can sleep with women but not men. Or maybe she can have one and only one fck-buddy. Or maybe you guys can have threesomes together, or attend sex parties TOGETHER. Or or or. I'm not recommending any of those strategies in particular. I'm just saying that there are lots and lots of different arrangements, and to my knowledge EVERYONE who has some kind of open relationship--sorry, some kind of SUCCESSFUL open relationship-- has some arrangement or other.
You both need to be honest with yourselves and each other about what you need and want. You need to figure out what in particular makes you upset. If the answer is something less than "her having sexual contact with anyone but me", there may be hope. And she, equally, needs to figure out what outlet she needs. If the answer is something less than "doing whom I want, when I want", there may be hope.
And don't forget that a fair arrangement might well require outlets for you, too -- so SHE needs to think about what would freak HER out.
The key is honesty, communication, limits, and trust. If she continues to break whatever new boundaries you negotiate, then she really is a selfish, troubled, no good.... whatever.
In short, the fact that you are considering staying with this woman suggests that you are open to trying a non-conventional arrangement. You just need to do the hard thinking & talking about what arrangement might work for you. Do some research -- look up "polyamory" on Amazon. Read the archives of Savage Love.
Background: I compromised once, with a man I was with for 4 years. He wanted an open relationship. I wanted monogamy -- well, my heart wanted monogamy, but intellectually I understood (and had thought about it a lot before meeting him). So we had a complicated arrangement..... for the periods when we were apart (we had a lot of long distance time). I can't say that it was always awesome. Sometimes, especially at first, it was really, really hard. And I only slept with one other person the whole time. But, you know, it really was basically fine by the end -- and it was NOT the reason we broke up.
Good luck.
posted by kestrel251 at 2:40 PM on March 11, 2009 [1 favorite]
Compromise ON BOTH SIDES would absolutely be required. And is in principle possible, because there are positions in between full-blown monogamy and full-blown open relationships. For example, perhaps you don't want her to sleep with friends or co-workers, but that she could have safe (ha!) sex with strangers. Or, if she is bi, maybe she can sleep with women but not men. Or maybe she can have one and only one fck-buddy. Or maybe you guys can have threesomes together, or attend sex parties TOGETHER. Or or or. I'm not recommending any of those strategies in particular. I'm just saying that there are lots and lots of different arrangements, and to my knowledge EVERYONE who has some kind of open relationship--sorry, some kind of SUCCESSFUL open relationship-- has some arrangement or other.
You both need to be honest with yourselves and each other about what you need and want. You need to figure out what in particular makes you upset. If the answer is something less than "her having sexual contact with anyone but me", there may be hope. And she, equally, needs to figure out what outlet she needs. If the answer is something less than "doing whom I want, when I want", there may be hope.
And don't forget that a fair arrangement might well require outlets for you, too -- so SHE needs to think about what would freak HER out.
The key is honesty, communication, limits, and trust. If she continues to break whatever new boundaries you negotiate, then she really is a selfish, troubled, no good.... whatever.
In short, the fact that you are considering staying with this woman suggests that you are open to trying a non-conventional arrangement. You just need to do the hard thinking & talking about what arrangement might work for you. Do some research -- look up "polyamory" on Amazon. Read the archives of Savage Love.
Background: I compromised once, with a man I was with for 4 years. He wanted an open relationship. I wanted monogamy -- well, my heart wanted monogamy, but intellectually I understood (and had thought about it a lot before meeting him). So we had a complicated arrangement..... for the periods when we were apart (we had a lot of long distance time). I can't say that it was always awesome. Sometimes, especially at first, it was really, really hard. And I only slept with one other person the whole time. But, you know, it really was basically fine by the end -- and it was NOT the reason we broke up.
Good luck.
posted by kestrel251 at 2:40 PM on March 11, 2009 [1 favorite]
P.S. But the "marriage might fix things" bit is just so, so, so dumb.
posted by kestrel251 at 2:43 PM on March 11, 2009
posted by kestrel251 at 2:43 PM on March 11, 2009
I am going to disagree with most of the posters above and encourage you to have an open mind for a minute.
I am a lot like your girlfriend. I also feel trapped when I am monogamous, although I do not seek out as many partners in as short of a time-span as she does, and take longer to feel restless in a new relationship. I don't know why I feel this way but I do. And when I was trying to be monogamous, that restless feeling caused me to let go of a lot of otherwise good relationships.
So now I am not monogamous. I have a long-term, open relationship that is extremely stable. My long-term partner and I made the decision together, for a variety of reasons (some my reasons, some shared) that this was what we wanted, and we have worked to make it happen.
Like any human, we feel jealousy sometimes, but we have discovered that, for us, knowing that our relationship is stable and will continue, and that we will not be "replaced" by anyone else, allows us to get over that jealousy. This works because we have a foundation of honesty and trust. It sounds like you have that honesty with her, so that's a start. You may feel now like you could never be in an open relationship, but it might be worth trying. Of course, some people are not as able to deal with their jealousy as others.
On the other hand, whatever you decide, that decision must be shared. If you decide to try some sort of open arrangement, you need to agree on the rules and details of that arrangement or you will end up getting hurt.
posted by mai at 2:45 PM on March 11, 2009 [3 favorites]
I am a lot like your girlfriend. I also feel trapped when I am monogamous, although I do not seek out as many partners in as short of a time-span as she does, and take longer to feel restless in a new relationship. I don't know why I feel this way but I do. And when I was trying to be monogamous, that restless feeling caused me to let go of a lot of otherwise good relationships.
So now I am not monogamous. I have a long-term, open relationship that is extremely stable. My long-term partner and I made the decision together, for a variety of reasons (some my reasons, some shared) that this was what we wanted, and we have worked to make it happen.
Like any human, we feel jealousy sometimes, but we have discovered that, for us, knowing that our relationship is stable and will continue, and that we will not be "replaced" by anyone else, allows us to get over that jealousy. This works because we have a foundation of honesty and trust. It sounds like you have that honesty with her, so that's a start. You may feel now like you could never be in an open relationship, but it might be worth trying. Of course, some people are not as able to deal with their jealousy as others.
On the other hand, whatever you decide, that decision must be shared. If you decide to try some sort of open arrangement, you need to agree on the rules and details of that arrangement or you will end up getting hurt.
posted by mai at 2:45 PM on March 11, 2009 [3 favorites]
I can imagine spending the rest of my life with her (if we can break the destructive pattern, of course).
"The destructive pattern" could also be termed "how she operates when she is in a relationship" (at least, when she is in a relationship with you). What you are imagining is a life with someone who is not this woman.
posted by Meg_Murry at 2:47 PM on March 11, 2009
"The destructive pattern" could also be termed "how she operates when she is in a relationship" (at least, when she is in a relationship with you). What you are imagining is a life with someone who is not this woman.
posted by Meg_Murry at 2:47 PM on March 11, 2009
Like mai, I am much like your girlfriend. I have dated a number of great guys like you who I'm just not compatible with. It is always disappointing when you realize that someone you want isn't yours for the taking. I'm actually quite good at monogamy, in that I don't cheat. But it turns me into a libido-less frump who is bored and restless. And that's not good for a relationship either.
You both deserve something that can make you happy, and sadly, it appears that you can't provide that for each other.
posted by greekphilosophy at 2:59 PM on March 11, 2009 [1 favorite]
You both deserve something that can make you happy, and sadly, it appears that you can't provide that for each other.
posted by greekphilosophy at 2:59 PM on March 11, 2009 [1 favorite]
koeselitz's point needs to be repeated, in boldface:
This is not polyamory. It is cheating.
posted by neroli at 3:10 PM on March 11, 2009
This is not polyamory. It is cheating.
posted by neroli at 3:10 PM on March 11, 2009
Two words: Unplanned pregnancy.
Is it yours?
posted by Ironmouth at 3:16 PM on March 11, 2009 [3 favorites]
Is it yours?
posted by Ironmouth at 3:16 PM on March 11, 2009 [3 favorites]
This kind of drama, in my experience, never ends well. It just ends, at whatever point you decide you're getting off the roller-coaster for good. And at that point, after a bit of pain and longing, you wonder why the hell you didn't do it earlier.
posted by not that girl at 3:18 PM on March 11, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by not that girl at 3:18 PM on March 11, 2009 [1 favorite]
BTW, this is classic manipulation. Listen, she's not respecting boundaries she agreed to. Its one thing to say, hey, these boundaries are bugging me, I want a change. It is quite another to not respect the boundaries and then claim you want the change. One is perfectly OK. One is not.
I'm also going to say that there are plenty of women that have all incredible characteristics that you can be with who want monogamy.
posted by Ironmouth at 3:25 PM on March 11, 2009
I'm also going to say that there are plenty of women that have all incredible characteristics that you can be with who want monogamy.
posted by Ironmouth at 3:25 PM on March 11, 2009
Four times in 7 months? Seriously?
Dude, let her go. I don't mean to toss out flamebait or anything, just my two cents:
I'm sure you're gonna find plenty of people who say that relationships are restrictive, that having only one partner is a selfish deed, that we're no different from animals and should never have just one mate. Whatever. To me, this is an excuse set forth by the same people who try to label every single personality trait as a disease. The same type that will label anybody energetic as a sufferer of ADD or hyperactivity. An excuse set forth by people who avoid responsibility for their actions.
She's got deep rooted issues and is playing you like a violin because you let her. You've become her chump, her shoulder to cry on, her emotional release. You know what though? Girls can lie too. Girls will tell you that they love you even if they don't mean it... it will keep you right where they want you. You know why she keeps coming back? Cus she knows the other guy doesn't love her back. She knows she's being played, in essence wants to have her cake and eat it too. Does your average relationship-worthy girl do that? Sounds defective to me.
Don't get me wrong, Eternal Sunshine isn't a bad movie. It hits the nail on the head with its primary point: if you have a relationship issue, fix it, or let it slide sometimes if it's small enough. Don't blow it out of proportion, and pretending there is no major problem will only make it worse. My pet PEEVE however, with many flicks, is it reinforces the idea that there IS such thing as "the one". If you don't have her, you can't have anybody. What a load of crap. That propaganda makes break ups harder than they should be. It blurs the line between the acceptable and unacceptable in a relationship. She wants you to believe cheating is a non issue, are you kidding me?! C'mon now, if having sex with someone else because they're attractive isn't really cheating because there's no emotional connection, then what is? Let's see you go hugging, loving and kissing someone besides her, and call it a simple friendship cus there's no sex.
Don't get me wrong though, I feel for you. I've met plenty of messed up girls, and to be honest they're extremely interesting. There's something that feels good about a girl in distress seeking you as the answer to their troubles. They can be like movies... they will throw randomness and surprises your way, and that's what keeps you watching. These girls will see you as a vitamin, but the reality is you're not. And you shouldn't pretend to be, because if you deviate from this perfect mental picture they have of you, they will go ballistic and BELIEVE ME... it ALWAYS happens sooner or later.
Remember, break ups are supposed to hurt, and hurt a lot. It's supposed to feel wrong. It's supposed to feel unnatural. It's supposed to leave a scar... but you'll be glad you walked away.
Also, raise your self esteem dude. Any guy with a healthy dose of confidence can see that there's plenty girls with potential, you just need the guts to choose one good enough to share the good, the bad, and the ugly parts of life with.
posted by Zeker at 3:33 PM on March 11, 2009 [5 favorites]
Dude, let her go. I don't mean to toss out flamebait or anything, just my two cents:
I'm sure you're gonna find plenty of people who say that relationships are restrictive, that having only one partner is a selfish deed, that we're no different from animals and should never have just one mate. Whatever. To me, this is an excuse set forth by the same people who try to label every single personality trait as a disease. The same type that will label anybody energetic as a sufferer of ADD or hyperactivity. An excuse set forth by people who avoid responsibility for their actions.
She's got deep rooted issues and is playing you like a violin because you let her. You've become her chump, her shoulder to cry on, her emotional release. You know what though? Girls can lie too. Girls will tell you that they love you even if they don't mean it... it will keep you right where they want you. You know why she keeps coming back? Cus she knows the other guy doesn't love her back. She knows she's being played, in essence wants to have her cake and eat it too. Does your average relationship-worthy girl do that? Sounds defective to me.
Don't get me wrong, Eternal Sunshine isn't a bad movie. It hits the nail on the head with its primary point: if you have a relationship issue, fix it, or let it slide sometimes if it's small enough. Don't blow it out of proportion, and pretending there is no major problem will only make it worse. My pet PEEVE however, with many flicks, is it reinforces the idea that there IS such thing as "the one". If you don't have her, you can't have anybody. What a load of crap. That propaganda makes break ups harder than they should be. It blurs the line between the acceptable and unacceptable in a relationship. She wants you to believe cheating is a non issue, are you kidding me?! C'mon now, if having sex with someone else because they're attractive isn't really cheating because there's no emotional connection, then what is? Let's see you go hugging, loving and kissing someone besides her, and call it a simple friendship cus there's no sex.
Don't get me wrong though, I feel for you. I've met plenty of messed up girls, and to be honest they're extremely interesting. There's something that feels good about a girl in distress seeking you as the answer to their troubles. They can be like movies... they will throw randomness and surprises your way, and that's what keeps you watching. These girls will see you as a vitamin, but the reality is you're not. And you shouldn't pretend to be, because if you deviate from this perfect mental picture they have of you, they will go ballistic and BELIEVE ME... it ALWAYS happens sooner or later.
Remember, break ups are supposed to hurt, and hurt a lot. It's supposed to feel wrong. It's supposed to feel unnatural. It's supposed to leave a scar... but you'll be glad you walked away.
Also, raise your self esteem dude. Any guy with a healthy dose of confidence can see that there's plenty girls with potential, you just need the guts to choose one good enough to share the good, the bad, and the ugly parts of life with.
posted by Zeker at 3:33 PM on March 11, 2009 [5 favorites]
Also forgot to say... both parties in a relationship need attention and effort to make things work. ALWAYS try to toss sponteniety into your relationship, treat her like you guys are still dating and you're fighting for her love and attention. When the lover's mind gets bored, affairs will come a'knockin.
Do everything you can and beyond to keep things exciting. This goes for the ladies too, don't just sit there and expect to be pleased. Don't try to seek complex excuses because you're bored. If you can get creative enough to plot elaborate scripts to justify your actions, you're definitely creative enough to find ways to have fun with your significant other.
posted by Zeker at 3:45 PM on March 11, 2009 [3 favorites]
Do everything you can and beyond to keep things exciting. This goes for the ladies too, don't just sit there and expect to be pleased. Don't try to seek complex excuses because you're bored. If you can get creative enough to plot elaborate scripts to justify your actions, you're definitely creative enough to find ways to have fun with your significant other.
posted by Zeker at 3:45 PM on March 11, 2009 [3 favorites]
You know already that you need to pull the plug. There's no such thing as "the one." This girl is lame, sir.
posted by EatTheWeek at 3:48 PM on March 11, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by EatTheWeek at 3:48 PM on March 11, 2009 [1 favorite]
neroli said:
koeselitz's point needs to be repeated, in boldface:
This is not polyamory. It is cheating.
Yeah, I know. That's why I said that mostly I'm inclined to DTMFA. But the rest of my comment was driven by the thought that, well, maybe she hasn't really considered negotiation and boundaries. Maybe she -- childishly, selfishly, foolishly -- sees monogamy as all or nothing. Maybe she's struggling to figure out what works for her, just as the poster is struggling. Oh, she's doing a TERRIBLE job, no question, but it seemed worth throwing the polyamory idea out there. I assume most polyamorists don't waltz into their first accepting poly relationship with a perfect understanding of how it's supposed to go.... I assume they try, and flounder, and fail, and eventually gain the experience and insight to do a better job of making it work. Don't forget that she's only in her 20's, and that we're only hearing a tiny fraction of the story.
posted by kestrel251 at 3:51 PM on March 11, 2009 [1 favorite]
Dump, dump, dump.
posted by Krrrlson at 3:55 PM on March 11, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by Krrrlson at 3:55 PM on March 11, 2009 [1 favorite]
The behavior you describe is immature. The behavior you describe in someone with a child is well beyond immature, quickly moving into "horrible person" territory. Some people require chaos in their lives, and you've found one.
Leave, and be sure to carefully explain why.
posted by coolguymichael at 4:14 PM on March 11, 2009 [5 favorites]
Leave, and be sure to carefully explain why.
posted by coolguymichael at 4:14 PM on March 11, 2009 [5 favorites]
"The one" only wants you. Don't settle for a relationship that will only hurt you.
posted by CwgrlUp at 4:16 PM on March 11, 2009 [2 favorites]
posted by CwgrlUp at 4:16 PM on March 11, 2009 [2 favorites]
GTFO!
posted by swbarrett at 4:21 PM on March 11, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by swbarrett at 4:21 PM on March 11, 2009 [1 favorite]
The two of you seem to be diametrically opposed about a very important thing. I'm not going to say she's wrong for wanting an open relationship or you're wrong for wanting a monogamous one, but I just don't think there's a healthy compromise here. For you to feel loved, you need monogamy. For her to feel loved, she needs an open relationship. That is how the both of you are wired, and I really don't think that's going to change.
I understand that you connect on everything else, and you obviously have a deep attraction for each other, but oftentimes it really is one thing that renders a relationship unworkable whether its divergent religious views, conflicting professional desires, or disagreeing about having children. All those things are HUGE, and when you are on completlely opposite ends of the spectrum, chances are you won't make it, even if you're compatible in every other way.
Besides all that, she has handled this very poorly and not been a good partner to you. A good partner who wants an open relationship talks to you *before* they are sexual with someone else, not come to you afterwards when the choices you are left with are dump her and feel like an asshole or forgive her and feel like an asshole. That's a horrible position to be put in by someone who is supposed to love you. If you decide to part ways for good, you will have to completely sever ties for a bit. That means no contact for several months-no facebook, no ims, no phone calls, no email, etc. That is incredibly hard, but it's most likely the only way you'll actually be able to move on. Good luck, and remember you deserve what you want and need in a relationship, just as much as she does.
posted by katemcd at 4:48 PM on March 11, 2009
I understand that you connect on everything else, and you obviously have a deep attraction for each other, but oftentimes it really is one thing that renders a relationship unworkable whether its divergent religious views, conflicting professional desires, or disagreeing about having children. All those things are HUGE, and when you are on completlely opposite ends of the spectrum, chances are you won't make it, even if you're compatible in every other way.
Besides all that, she has handled this very poorly and not been a good partner to you. A good partner who wants an open relationship talks to you *before* they are sexual with someone else, not come to you afterwards when the choices you are left with are dump her and feel like an asshole or forgive her and feel like an asshole. That's a horrible position to be put in by someone who is supposed to love you. If you decide to part ways for good, you will have to completely sever ties for a bit. That means no contact for several months-no facebook, no ims, no phone calls, no email, etc. That is incredibly hard, but it's most likely the only way you'll actually be able to move on. Good luck, and remember you deserve what you want and need in a relationship, just as much as she does.
posted by katemcd at 4:48 PM on March 11, 2009
No less than four times in seven months we broke up and reunited.
I stopped reading there. I skimmed the rest but nothing seemed to stick out as much to me as that. She is the wrong girl for you.I'm sorry things didn't work out but there really truly is someone else, someone better, out there for you.
posted by otherwordlyglow at 4:55 PM on March 11, 2009 [1 favorite]
I stopped reading there. I skimmed the rest but nothing seemed to stick out as much to me as that. She is the wrong girl for you.I'm sorry things didn't work out but there really truly is someone else, someone better, out there for you.
posted by otherwordlyglow at 4:55 PM on March 11, 2009 [1 favorite]
What stands out to me in your post is the pursuer-distancer dynamic you describe ("she feels trapped, I feel insecure"). That's a stubborn and deeply ingrained pattern, and going around and around in that cycle is exhausting. As a veteran of a doomed relationship in which I endured that kind of push-pull interaction for years, and then ended up with a broken heart, I feel compelled to warn you away from it.
(For more on this, I highly recommend the book Mapping the Terrain of the Heart: Passion, Tenderness, and the Capacity to Love by Stephen Goldbart and David Wallin. The authors call this "the merger-hungry/merger-wary collusion," and learning about it gave me a lot of insight into why my previous relationships didn't work out).
Furthermore, given your desire for monogamy, and her obvious lack of interest in it, I think you are in for a world of heartbreak if you continue seeing this woman.
Upthread, grumblebee writes:
One thing for sure: you CAN'T settle. Neither can she. You can SAY you'll settle, but you'll have no control over whether or not you actually can.
That's certainly been true for me. I tried it in good faith, but I learned that I couldn't do it. If you're clear about your desire for monogamy already - and it definitely sounds like you are - then I recommend that you find the strength to resist the temptation to get back with her. I know it'll be hard, since you clearly love her, but in the long run, I don't think you'll regret it. Good luck.
posted by velvet winter at 4:55 PM on March 11, 2009 [1 favorite]
(For more on this, I highly recommend the book Mapping the Terrain of the Heart: Passion, Tenderness, and the Capacity to Love by Stephen Goldbart and David Wallin. The authors call this "the merger-hungry/merger-wary collusion," and learning about it gave me a lot of insight into why my previous relationships didn't work out).
Furthermore, given your desire for monogamy, and her obvious lack of interest in it, I think you are in for a world of heartbreak if you continue seeing this woman.
Upthread, grumblebee writes:
One thing for sure: you CAN'T settle. Neither can she. You can SAY you'll settle, but you'll have no control over whether or not you actually can.
That's certainly been true for me. I tried it in good faith, but I learned that I couldn't do it. If you're clear about your desire for monogamy already - and it definitely sounds like you are - then I recommend that you find the strength to resist the temptation to get back with her. I know it'll be hard, since you clearly love her, but in the long run, I don't think you'll regret it. Good luck.
posted by velvet winter at 4:55 PM on March 11, 2009 [1 favorite]
This isn't about "prudes forcing their morality on you" or you having outdated, unrealistic expectations. It's about compatibility and trust, neither of which you have with this girl. I'm sorry she seems so great in other ways, but monogamy is not something you can compromise on, nor should you. This isn't really about polyamory, either, because as others have pointed out, you didn't have an open relationship with her. She agreed to be faithful and broke that promise (multiple times?). My advice would be to keep your distance, chalk the heartbreak up to a learning experience, and look to start dating after a time. Good luck; what you are looking for is not impossible to find.
posted by JenMarie at 5:10 PM on March 11, 2009
posted by JenMarie at 5:10 PM on March 11, 2009
Let her go. You don't need that kind of drama in your life. It does NOT matter why she cheated, she cheated. Keep it simple and don't compromise your values/principles. She's not a good fit for you regardless of how much you have in common and how pretty/sexy she is.
posted by icollectpurses at 5:25 PM on March 11, 2009
posted by icollectpurses at 5:25 PM on March 11, 2009
It may be helpful to make a list (literally) of what you want, and will not compromise on, in a relationship. Not people, as in I Want My Ex Back, but what qualities you seek in a partner or what attributes you want the relationship to have. You may be surprised with your results. Sometimes they don't match up with who we think "the one" is. If monogamy is on your list, that will tell you a lot about what to do about your ex, even if it hurts.
posted by ShadePlant at 6:09 PM on March 11, 2009
posted by ShadePlant at 6:09 PM on March 11, 2009
Beep beep, what's that truck backin' up? The dump truck!
I mean, I'm sorry dude, but she's actin' like a narcissist and while I don't doubt that she's hella attractive and charismatic, she's no good for you based on what you wrote. Dealbreaker, dealbroke.
posted by klangklangston at 6:31 PM on March 11, 2009 [1 favorite]
I mean, I'm sorry dude, but she's actin' like a narcissist and while I don't doubt that she's hella attractive and charismatic, she's no good for you based on what you wrote. Dealbreaker, dealbroke.
posted by klangklangston at 6:31 PM on March 11, 2009 [1 favorite]
While I am not going to denigrade the lady in question, as we do not know her nor do we know more than your POV on this (which is rightfully hurt at this point):
You do not want an open relationship. She does. This is definitely a deal breaker! You need to step back, and think long and hard about sacrifices you are and are not willing to make in life, and act on this. Almost certainly, this sort of relationship is not a sacrifice you are willing to make. That is ok. You will move on.
posted by shownomercy at 6:34 PM on March 11, 2009 [1 favorite]
You do not want an open relationship. She does. This is definitely a deal breaker! You need to step back, and think long and hard about sacrifices you are and are not willing to make in life, and act on this. Almost certainly, this sort of relationship is not a sacrifice you are willing to make. That is ok. You will move on.
posted by shownomercy at 6:34 PM on March 11, 2009 [1 favorite]
I can imagine spending the rest of my life with her (if we can break the destructive pattern, of course).
But you can't break the destructive pattern. So unless you can imagine putting up with this situation exactly the way it is for the rest of your life, you need to end things with her now.
posted by orange swan at 6:56 PM on March 11, 2009 [2 favorites]
But you can't break the destructive pattern. So unless you can imagine putting up with this situation exactly the way it is for the rest of your life, you need to end things with her now.
posted by orange swan at 6:56 PM on March 11, 2009 [2 favorites]
She has a child. You like this child. Your relationship with this child's mother is doubtless causing lots of upheaval and drama in this child's life.
You know you have incompatible goals and that she doesn't shy away from hurting you. If not to protect yourself, stop this pattern to protect her child from its effects on the stability of their home.
posted by heatherann at 7:30 PM on March 11, 2009
You know you have incompatible goals and that she doesn't shy away from hurting you. If not to protect yourself, stop this pattern to protect her child from its effects on the stability of their home.
posted by heatherann at 7:30 PM on March 11, 2009
The frustrating thing is that this is literally the only serious mismatch we have
It's a pretty big one, though, huh?
"dealbreakers" isn't just a clever-sounding name... it means that it, you know...BREAKS the DEAL.
posted by Green Eyed Monster at 7:46 PM on March 11, 2009
It's a pretty big one, though, huh?
"dealbreakers" isn't just a clever-sounding name... it means that it, you know...BREAKS the DEAL.
posted by Green Eyed Monster at 7:46 PM on March 11, 2009
I think you should ask yourself what is really important to you. Is this girl so much your soul mate in your head that you are willing to continue to go through this turmoil? Probably not. So, what is the solution to the turmoil? Couples therapy where you are both ready and willing. If one or both of you is not ready or not willing, it's not going to work.
You probably also need to realize that you should address the (to me) obvious reality that she is using you. This is a woman that is afraid of relationships, maybe because of her experiences in past ones, but she wants stability (i.e., someone like you). Of course, stability is not what she is used to, and so she isn't going to treat relationships in a stable manner. But she keeps coming back to you, because deep down she is aware that stability is not only what she wants, but needs. She probably also realizes that someone who wants monogamy and is stable will be a very good father figure for her child.
She is using you to have some stability in her life, but she is also very afraid of what getting what she wants will represent in the future. Statements like "...I'll get bored with you and feel trapped, because that's what happens with me" seem almost internal, too, as if what she's really saying there is "I'm afraid you'll get bored of me, so I'm beating you to it." I think understanding her relationship and desire for stability will give you a much better picture of your relationship with her.
Now, I think I would dump this girl. HOWEVER, you love her, and (barring mental illness which may cause erratic behavior) you may want to be the knight to her (and the child) in this. The knight for her would be someone who picked her up and got her some help if she's willing to get it, because this is severely damaging behavior for her and for her child. I totally believe in "once a cheater, always a cheater," unless someone's done lots of therapy individually and as a couple. Is she worth the time and money? You need to decide that. She may or may not be.
The ideal scenario in this would be that she wants help for this and that her desire for stability wins out over all the other confusion. It would be a good thing for you, in the long run. It would be a great thing for her. And you would likely be giving a child a much better life.
Ideal scenarios don't always happen, though, either because something goes wrong or we just decide they'd ultimately be too difficult to attain. Consider your options, but break up with her if she doesn't want therapy. Also, I think I'd avoid being friends with someone who behaves in such a self-damaging manner, because she's likely to always be calling you when something goes wrong.
posted by metalheart at 7:55 PM on March 11, 2009
You probably also need to realize that you should address the (to me) obvious reality that she is using you. This is a woman that is afraid of relationships, maybe because of her experiences in past ones, but she wants stability (i.e., someone like you). Of course, stability is not what she is used to, and so she isn't going to treat relationships in a stable manner. But she keeps coming back to you, because deep down she is aware that stability is not only what she wants, but needs. She probably also realizes that someone who wants monogamy and is stable will be a very good father figure for her child.
She is using you to have some stability in her life, but she is also very afraid of what getting what she wants will represent in the future. Statements like "...I'll get bored with you and feel trapped, because that's what happens with me" seem almost internal, too, as if what she's really saying there is "I'm afraid you'll get bored of me, so I'm beating you to it." I think understanding her relationship and desire for stability will give you a much better picture of your relationship with her.
Now, I think I would dump this girl. HOWEVER, you love her, and (barring mental illness which may cause erratic behavior) you may want to be the knight to her (and the child) in this. The knight for her would be someone who picked her up and got her some help if she's willing to get it, because this is severely damaging behavior for her and for her child. I totally believe in "once a cheater, always a cheater," unless someone's done lots of therapy individually and as a couple. Is she worth the time and money? You need to decide that. She may or may not be.
The ideal scenario in this would be that she wants help for this and that her desire for stability wins out over all the other confusion. It would be a good thing for you, in the long run. It would be a great thing for her. And you would likely be giving a child a much better life.
Ideal scenarios don't always happen, though, either because something goes wrong or we just decide they'd ultimately be too difficult to attain. Consider your options, but break up with her if she doesn't want therapy. Also, I think I'd avoid being friends with someone who behaves in such a self-damaging manner, because she's likely to always be calling you when something goes wrong.
posted by metalheart at 7:55 PM on March 11, 2009
A good partner who wants an open relationship talks to you *before* they are sexual with someone else, not come to you afterwards when the choices you are left with are dump her and feel like an asshole or forgive her and feel like an asshole.
This has nothing to do with polyamory. Don't try to convince yourself that someone showing fundamental disrespect for you is having a difference of opinion.
posted by Ironmouth at 8:02 PM on March 11, 2009
This has nothing to do with polyamory. Don't try to convince yourself that someone showing fundamental disrespect for you is having a difference of opinion.
posted by Ironmouth at 8:02 PM on March 11, 2009
I'm with Ironmouth and koeselitz.
Also, this doesn't sound healthy at all for you. If you're going to therapy to be less possessive, you need someone who deserves your trust as you get ready to experiment with trusting people, not someone who will confirm your suspicions that people are untrustworthy. (I'm assuming this jealousy was pre-existing, not something she instilled.)
Also, a pop psych take says the chemistry here might be so hot because of (not in spite of) your differences here. (There are some past comments about how intense chemistry is sometimes a danger sign, like one from Ironmouth here, and ones from me here and here.) I'd get away from this person and focus on your own self and your desire to build a trusting and trustworthy relationship.
posted by salvia at 8:03 PM on March 11, 2009
Also, this doesn't sound healthy at all for you. If you're going to therapy to be less possessive, you need someone who deserves your trust as you get ready to experiment with trusting people, not someone who will confirm your suspicions that people are untrustworthy. (I'm assuming this jealousy was pre-existing, not something she instilled.)
Also, a pop psych take says the chemistry here might be so hot because of (not in spite of) your differences here. (There are some past comments about how intense chemistry is sometimes a danger sign, like one from Ironmouth here, and ones from me here and here.) I'd get away from this person and focus on your own self and your desire to build a trusting and trustworthy relationship.
posted by salvia at 8:03 PM on March 11, 2009
Have differing views on monogamy killed our relationship?
Yes.
Should I compromise on monogamy?
No.
Can I help her compromise?
Probably not (even if she says otherwise).
posted by faeuboulanger at 9:01 PM on March 11, 2009
Yes.
Should I compromise on monogamy?
No.
Can I help her compromise?
Probably not (even if she says otherwise).
posted by faeuboulanger at 9:01 PM on March 11, 2009
Don't compromise, especially with someone who is so disrespectful of you and knows that she can get away with it.
posted by so much modern time at 3:24 AM on March 12, 2009 [2 favorites]
posted by so much modern time at 3:24 AM on March 12, 2009 [2 favorites]
Becoming a parent does not automatically make a person a mature adult. She sounds confused. Break up with her - she needs to understand that its ok to set your own boundaries. Tell her that you love her but it just doesn't work for you - no blame or judgement. Its sad but that's life and it's ok for things not to work out. Either she'll decide that actually it's worth compromising in some ways to be with you, or she'll understand that she also needs to take responsibility for her desires by finding someone like-minded, not by demanding that you change.
Be easy with yourself and take some time to let go.
posted by freya_lamb at 3:34 AM on March 12, 2009
Be easy with yourself and take some time to let go.
posted by freya_lamb at 3:34 AM on March 12, 2009
Run! Run as a fast as you can. This sounds like a horrible train wreck of a relationship. How many times does she need to cheat on you before that sinks in?
Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind is a great film. Still, staying in this relationship because that movie is good seems stupid.
posted by chunking express at 8:04 AM on March 12, 2009
Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind is a great film. Still, staying in this relationship because that movie is good seems stupid.
posted by chunking express at 8:04 AM on March 12, 2009
Don't base your life goals on art. Art is the best thing on earth for displaying human frailty and triumph, but not for modeling it. I say this as someone who based his entire conception on what long term relationships should be like on Say Anything, which covers essentially the first chapter in the book of a life. Whenever I meet actually real successful couples, they are in natural agreement in what they want out of a relationship, either unified or cooperative.
Is it possible that you only THINK everything about you two works perfectly because "that one thing" sucks so hard? Either way, cut off all contact with her and the next person you date try not to be harsh with her small foibles--she may not be "perfect" like this one, but she's unlikely to screw random dudes without your permission.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 9:58 AM on March 12, 2009 [2 favorites]
Is it possible that you only THINK everything about you two works perfectly because "that one thing" sucks so hard? Either way, cut off all contact with her and the next person you date try not to be harsh with her small foibles--she may not be "perfect" like this one, but she's unlikely to screw random dudes without your permission.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 9:58 AM on March 12, 2009 [2 favorites]
If you don't dump her and she gives you a lifelong STD, you're going to have a hell of a time finding a nice, monogamous girl to marry and have children with later. And you're going to hate yourself for believing you can't do better once this girl's pheromones wear off and you get a little distance from it.
LOVE IS NOT ENOUGH. EVER. Mutual respect and trust are part of that package deal; what would you say if your parents treated each other this way? Have a little self-respect, for god's sake. You're not going to die alone if you dump this girl. Have a little faith!
posted by Unicorn on the cob at 10:32 AM on March 12, 2009 [2 favorites]
LOVE IS NOT ENOUGH. EVER. Mutual respect and trust are part of that package deal; what would you say if your parents treated each other this way? Have a little self-respect, for god's sake. You're not going to die alone if you dump this girl. Have a little faith!
posted by Unicorn on the cob at 10:32 AM on March 12, 2009 [2 favorites]
Do not read through this thread and only agree with the ones that reinforce the aswer you think you want to hear--the ones that say there is hope for this relationship, or that the relationship is doomed.
Instead, respect the hive-mind, count up how many people say "Give her a chance" and how many say "DTMFA", and go with the majority.
DTMFA
posted by Hogshead at 10:53 AM on March 12, 2009 [1 favorite]
Instead, respect the hive-mind, count up how many people say "Give her a chance" and how many say "DTMFA", and go with the majority.
DTMFA
posted by Hogshead at 10:53 AM on March 12, 2009 [1 favorite]
Q: Should I compromise on monogamy?
A: I am definitely not in the market for an open relationship.
Do you really not see that you have already answered your own question?
posted by agentwills at 2:25 PM on March 13, 2009
A: I am definitely not in the market for an open relationship.
Do you really not see that you have already answered your own question?
posted by agentwills at 2:25 PM on March 13, 2009
Late, but...
She doesn't seem to be capable of monogamy at the moment. She doesn't seem to be capable of polyamory at the moment. Both boil down to: she isn't trustworthy, and doesn't respect boundaries.
Thing is, she actually seems to be getting off on breaking your trust. I'm wondering if she not-so-secretly likes making you jealous.
I think she might have what for you, Dan Savage would call 'a kink too far'.
That kink? The female counterpart to the cuckold fetish.
Give her the heads up, and tell her that there are sites, guys out there who would be happy to play the jealous partner with her little play-acting, but that that is NOT something you will do.
posted by Elysum at 3:54 AM on April 1, 2009
She doesn't seem to be capable of monogamy at the moment. She doesn't seem to be capable of polyamory at the moment. Both boil down to: she isn't trustworthy, and doesn't respect boundaries.
Thing is, she actually seems to be getting off on breaking your trust. I'm wondering if she not-so-secretly likes making you jealous.
I think she might have what for you, Dan Savage would call 'a kink too far'.
That kink? The female counterpart to the cuckold fetish.
Give her the heads up, and tell her that there are sites, guys out there who would be happy to play the jealous partner with her little play-acting, but that that is NOT something you will do.
posted by Elysum at 3:54 AM on April 1, 2009
Wow, this must really hit home for a lot of us as look at all the comments. Anyway, It is so refreshing to see the genders reversed for once. Maybe that is just a stereotype on my part. I am dealing with this myself. Except one difference is my guy lies to me about it. This is heartwrenching when you feel so compatible with someone yet they will not stay monogomous. I wonder about sex addiction?
posted by bananaskin at 5:29 PM on April 4, 2009
posted by bananaskin at 5:29 PM on April 4, 2009
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by mikeh at 1:38 PM on March 11, 2009 [9 favorites]