What city in N. California?

March 10, 2009 10:41 PM

Where should I live in Northern California? (details inside)

I've just been offered a 12-month contract in San Carlos, CA that I'm really keen on. I'm quite completely unfamiliar with the West Coast, so my question for the hive mind is: where should I live?

The options I'm looking at now, based on being a commutable distance from the office, are:
- San Carlos
- San Mateo
- Redwood City
- Belmont
- Hillsdale
(I'm generally leaning towards the more northerly cities because I would love, love to be near San Francisco, but if the southerly ones are much better for other reasons it's a trade off I'm willing to make.)

I'm eager to hear about anything you know about these cities - what the environment and community are like, whether there's a downtown and what that's like, what renting prospects are like, whether the commute to San Carlos is really as feasible as I think, anything. Would you recommend (or de-recommend) one over another? Would you recommend a city not on the list? Even if you aren't familiar with the cities mentioned, what are things that I should be taking note of/looking for in my search?

I've done alot of internet searching but it's mostly resulted in reading city census data which has been informative but a little cold. Now I'd love to hear what people who have been to these places think of them!

Other potentially relevant notes:
- This is my first job out of college (so any general advice for a first-time renter/car owner is also very, very welcome)
- I will most likely be buying a car though I don't really enjoy driving so any anecdotes relating to Californian public transport is also welcome
- I like to go out as much as the next person in their 20s but I don't need a really thumping night life; I'm more into the cafe/restaurant/bookshop type of scene (the occassional pleasant bar would be nice though)
- I would love to be able to take yoga, dance and/or language classes, so if you happen to know if those are particularly available in one of the places mentioned, that's a plus
- I haven't decided if I'll live alone or with roommates, so advice on both situations is welcome

Thanks very much in advance!

posted by skaye to travel & transportation (21 comments total)

redwood city's got great mexican food, if you're into that sort of thing. that's pretty much my only data point to offer, though - good luck!
posted by ewingpatriarch at 11:07 PM on March 10

I'm amazed more people haven't jumped on this question. Very important! It seems like you're constraining your choices quite a bit by geography - I don't know what kind of commute you'd be comfortable with, or what transit options your new company provides, but if you were to want to take mass transit to this location from San Francisco, you could connect from Bart to Caltrain. Bikes are (more or less) doable on Caltrain if walking or buses aren't an option from Caltrain to your office. I personally commute further than this every day to Santa Clara from Oakland (and skate to make up the change from station to office). Driving is also feasible.

There are a lot of great neighborhoods in San Francisco that might meet your needs. It sounds like you've done a lot of research but you should really come and see the city for yourself before making a decision. Check out Noe Valley, Hayes Valley, the Richmond, North Beach, and SOMA at a minimum. All of these places are near enough to Bart or bus lines to get you to Caltrain if that's the route you decide to take.

There is, of course, a VERY ACTIVE dance scene in San Francisco, and a lot of the dance studios offer Yoga or similar training. There are of course many businesses offering this, but I feel like I should mention my friend's dance studio. She's great, and you should drop by there even if you don't think it's for you for the long term.

The southerly cities are not much better for other reasons. The South Bay in general has a lot less to offer than Oakland or San Francisco. Redwood City and other places you list are largely suburban, commuter areas; pretty with hills and trees but very, very thin on pedestrian culture. You should come see the cities out here, spend a week and get to know the area.

Unfortunately, commuting to San Carlos, it's not reasonable to suggest you consider Oakland unless you're willing to drive 30 miles each way (and cross a bridge). Otherwise I'd suggest Oakland in a flash. But still, consider SF. Bay Area cities have a lot going on completely unrelated to thumping night life.
posted by doteatop at 11:13 PM on March 10

If you choose to live on the Peninsula, there will be no thumping nightlife for you, so I'm glad you won't miss it.

All of these are cute little cities. I'd say Redwood City is probably the "grittiest" of your cities if such a thing exists on the Peninsula - rent and home prices are lower, and there is much more of a Latino presence than in, say, Belmont. I'd say due to the small local markets and such, the cost of living might be lower in Redwood City. I really love Redwood City, actually, and if I could pick any of your cities I'd pick that one - but it's mostly because it reminds me of neighborhoods near where I grew up and so it makes me feel at home.

My aunt lives in a very nice neighborhood in Belmont, but I can't really speak for places other than her neighborhood. Along El Camino there are some cute shops and such, but El Camino isn't really a nice street to walk along.

The public transit is the envy of all California - that is to say, it's embarrassing. Your choices in these areas are Caltrain, the shuttles that connect to Caltrain, or myriad local buses. If your office has a Caltrain shuttle, great! You can live anywhere near the Caltrain corridor and get to work without having a car. That's what I do. However, a few times a month Caltrain will experience some kind of minor malfunction and the whole system will grind to a screeching halt, leaving you with no recourse and poor communication about what went wrong and whether you will ever get to work. This is where you need a car or a really understanding manager who lets you work from home a lot. I want to say Hillsdale is the best city if you're planning to depend on Caltrain since I think a lot of bullets stop there, but you should check.

Yoga will likely be available in any of these places. Dance too. Language I haven't really investigated.

Many sane people live in the city and commute to the Peninsula because the Peninsula is kind of a really large suburb with the occasional Main-Street-USA-style downtown plunked down in the midst. I live near one of those downtowns, so I can walk to a restaurant on the weekend if I want. But I'm married and I'm a part-time student, so my life outside of work consists of more work and occasionally hanging out with my husband. I would not like living on the Peninsula if I were a young, single person with many free hours outside of work.

You might want to see if you can get this question rephrased to read "...in the Bay Area" because when I think N. California, I think north of here.
posted by crinklebat at 11:26 PM on March 10

Live in San Francisco. There are 2 Caltrains every hour in the morning from the city that stop at San Carlos (once an hour if you get on at 22nd st). Everything you want on nights/weekends is WAY WAY better in the city than everywhere else you've mentioned. Outside of SF and San Jose, Silicon Valley is one big suburb.

(plus, Mexican food is "great" in RWC? Name 3 places.)

However, in the city you will almost certainly live with roommates. That's OK though, everyone does here.
posted by rkent at 11:27 PM on March 10

Seconding the suggestion to take a look-see. Failing that, take a virtual satellite-image based look-see.

The SF bay area is probably the most friendly metro area in California for non-drivers, but that isn't saying much. Want my advice? Buy a used convertible. If you're a motorcycle person, that's a good option but they happen to scare the piss out of me.

The outlying suburban communities are going to offer less in terms of immediately accessible stuff--like yoga studios. On the other hand, if you've been conditioned to identify living at a distance from/absence of a lot of commercial activity with 'the good life' (as I have for better or for worse) than the allure of the suburbs is real.

If it were me, I'd probably take an instrumental approach to this. Is this an explicitly temporary situation, with a definite ending or is it indefinite? If the former, I might try and do something "different" than I'm used to--knowing that it's time limited. If it's an indefinite set-up I'd probably select the setting that seemed the most comfortable and familiar.
posted by snuffleupagus at 11:30 PM on March 10

- I would love to be able to take yoga, dance and/or language classes, so if you happen to know if those are particularly available in one of the places mentioned, that's a plus

Hahaha.. it's California, you'll find yoga studios all up and down the Peninsula, so I wouldn't worry about that.

Out of the cities you listed, San Mateo is the biggest and they have the largest downtown, but it still doesn't compare to a proper city. If this is your first year here, see if your company has a shuttle to-and-from the CalTrain station. If they do, take doteatop's advice and look into living in the city and commuting out to work just so you'll have a life outside of work. Surburban life on the Peninsula is pretty quiet.

Also, other crucial lil' tidbit is finding out which cities have a Trader Joe's.
posted by hobbes at 11:31 PM on March 10

a few times a month Caltrain will experience some kind of minor malfunction and the whole system will grind to a screeching halt

More like once every 2 months, I'd estimate. It does happen, but it's not like it's going to nail you every week or something. I've been taking Caltrain during commute hours for about a year now and I think a failure/accident has really fubar'd my commute maybe 3 times. Plus a few other minor delays.
posted by rkent at 11:32 PM on March 10

I live in Redwood Shores (near Oracle) right across 101 from San Carlos. If you really want to live in the city you can do the Caltrain thing ... it stops smack in the middle of San Carlos and San Carlos is small enough that you could probably bike to wherever your office is.

If you decide to live on the Peninsula and really hate traffic then I'd stay in the areas you mentioned ... there are a handful of traffic bottlenecks on 101 that will drive you nuts if you hit them at the wrong time (i.e., 101/92 interchange, 101 near Woodside road).

I love where we live but then I'm 40 and have kid. As a 20 year old I'm not sure how much you'll like it. There are certainly pockets of nice interesting areas (downtown Laurel St. in San Carlos, downtown Burlingame, University Ave in Palo Alto) but it's definitely suburban ... and it's not SF.

The only dancing I know about is in Redwood City (Lindy Hop ... google 'Redwood City Swing'). Bookstores and Cafes are plentiful. Check out 'Town' restaurant on Laurel in San Carlos for a surprisingly hip dinner/drinks scene.

One thing you absolutely won't hate about this area is the weather. The motto of RWC is "Weather best by government test". It's a lame-ass motto but it's absolutely no lie. If you live in SF you do run the risk of not seeing the sun for 6 months a year (the cliches are no lie depending on which block you live on). If you go further south down the Peninsula the summers get hotter ... where we are is like this primo middle ground ... just like the baby bear's porridge ... not too hot ... not too cold.

Depending on which parts of the country you're coming from rents might piss you off ... still, it's not as bad as SF. There are plenty of apartment complexes in the area that make looking for places a lot easier than having to look at a zillion individual places in the city. Look at Craig's list for help on that.

Anyway, whatever you decide you'll love it when you get here. The Bay's not too far on one side, an an hour or so drive on 92 an you can be at the ocean in Half Moon Bay. SF is accessible from here and SFO airport is 10 minutes away. Not to mention our amazing back yard that is Northern California.

Good luck.
posted by mcschmidt00 at 11:46 PM on March 10

rkent may be right that major Caltrain problems don't happen as often as I think. However, selection bias will kick in and you will become absolutely sure that when Caltrain chooses to break down, it's always on a day when you really needed to be in on time. It doesn't help that some shuttles have a rule that they wait (some tiny number) minutes for a late train and otherwise the shuttle will peace out with three people on it who came up on the northbound. So Caltrain might be fifteen minutes late, but due to the shuttle, you could end up being an hour late or more since most of them don't come more than 3 or 4 times in a morning. Just...keep it in mind, is all I'm saying.

And, YES, be near Trader Joe's.
posted by crinklebat at 12:08 AM on March 11

It's hard to trust Caltrain when they do shit like cancel weekend service for two solid years.
posted by ryanrs at 12:56 AM on March 11

As some of the other people have mentioned, the cities you listed are mostly commuter suburb-ish cities with some tech industry growth. While I haven't lived in any of them, the time I've spent there has suggested that there isn't a whole lot to do outside of the odd event here or there. It's probably more active than cities in the South Bay, but that isn't saying a lot. That said, as a 20-something coming out of college, I wouldn't consider the South or East Bays, either. I've spent considerable time in the Fremont/Union City area, and I can say that while it's a nice, quiet place, there is really not a whole lot to do. From what I hear, Redwood City, etc. is much of the same. Rent

If you're looking for nice bookstores, dancing, etc., you're really going to be spending a lot of time in the city of San Francisco itself. The outlying areas are really hit or miss for what they offer; SF is truly the hub of the Bay Area. The next closest thing is Berkeley, but that's pretty far out of the way for you. There is a lot of public transportation to and from SF; BART and Caltrains will definitely do the trick. You can commute by car, too, but traffic can get clogged up in a hurry. Rent is more expensive in the city, but with some luck, not by a lot. The whole Bay is pretty pricey.

A lot of my friends are into Lindy, and from what I gather there's a pretty big scene around the Bay Area.

My recommendation is the same as what's already been said; come out here and take a look if you can. You'll quickly know whether or not the surrounding suburbs are too quiet.
posted by HonorShadow at 1:14 AM on March 11

Seconding doteatop and others.

Plenty of Google and Yahoo employees and plenty of Stanford professors and graduate students (for example) live in SF and have a longer commute than you would have to San Carlos. (I can't comment on the ongoing Caltrain dispute in this thread, though.) If you want to be close to the city (and you do), I would just live there.

Silicon Valley (as has been previously noted) is mostly boring and suburban, as well as not being any more affordable than the city. From the outside at least, I think most of the suburbs in Silicon Valley seem more similar than different. At the risk of parody, each seems to have this little farcical "downtown" strip which is like one of those new shopping malls that are outdoors (apparently called "lifestyle centers") that seem to be popping up everywhere (San Jose even has one). If you ever need a Starbucks, Cold Stone Creamery, sandwich shop or a quaint bakery though...
posted by pbh at 1:34 AM on March 11

Redwood city isn't bad. However I ended up going to the city for all social stuff as a 20 something, but then I din't check. But there was a great japanese place right by whipple and el camino real.

Actually there's a great afghan place in San Carlos, in a little shopping center on the east side of el camino real.

Belmont... I lived in Belmont, up in the hills, renting a room. A quiet town, but there's a small university in town, so there might be some college type things going on.

Honestly, I envied all my friends who lived in SF. Well envied them except for the cost.

If you can live in SF, I'd recommend you do so. buy a used bike, and take caltrain.
posted by gryftir at 1:45 AM on March 11

thanks everyone for all the great answers so far! this is really very helpful.

i'm excited that so many people are recommending that i live in SF - it's a fantasy that i was sure i couldn't make come true because the commute seemed unrealistic (er, based on googlemaps). my company is a very small one so it won't have a shuttle, but i will find out if it's near a caltrain station. unfortunately from what i can tell the BART doesn't go as far as San Carlos.

so as an addendum to the question - just in case caltrain station locations make my living in SF possible, are there any neighbourhoods you'd recommend in SF for me? safety is an issue because both my parents are having heart attacks over their young one living on her own and are insisting that i live in a place with security.

(i'm still also eager to hear more about the other cities listed!)
posted by skaye at 6:53 AM on March 11

Neighborhoods in SF...that's a whole 'nother question. A lot of people will suggest the Mission since it tends to be the sunniest and has all the hipster accoutrements, but it's somewhat gritty. The Sunset is actually underrated, since the assumption is that it's always fogged in and is only full of UCSF (med) students and families, but it's not a bad intro to the City...it's just that the commute from there to the Peninsula will drive you nuts. I'd honestly recommend something like Hayes/Cole Valley...it's close to downtown, convenient to pretty much everything, and still feels neighborhoody.
posted by kittyprecious at 9:09 AM on March 11

I lived in San Carlos for a few years. It is a dull but reasonably livable suburban town. There isn't much wrong with it; nothing happens.

San Mateo is starting to develop a downtown with some potential and that is about all the news.

Nthing the recommendations for SF and Caltrain. You'll periodically get stuck, I suspect, when someone does a suicide-by-train and they close the tracks. It is possible, if you have strong legs, to live in Bernal Heights and commute via bike and Caltrain (22nd St. station). I like Bernal Heights a lot since it's not far from a lot of fun yet it isn't as unremittingly noisy and busy as e.g. the Mission. Potrero Hill is close to the 22nd St. station and it is a possibility too.
posted by jet_silver at 9:16 AM on March 11

San Carlos is not that bad of a CalTrain commute from SF. I live right SFO and it's perfect for me and my wife in our decrepitude. Were I a young vibrant individual like yourself I would be living in SF--no question about it. Probably in the Mission. You can walk to lots of great stuff, like cafes, bookstores, etc. BART and MUNI make having a car in the city unnecessary, and the city is so small, you can walk anywhere if need be.
posted by Kafkaesque at 9:20 AM on March 11

You need to sort out whether Caltrain is a feasible option for you from your office to the San Carlos station. If it is, then I would definitely look to living in the city while you're young. The other thing to consider is the "city end" - how long will it take for you to get to Caltrain, etc. I can't help with that but my understanding is that can be a major factor in how much a nightmare the commute could be. If you live in the city you might not want or need a car. But if you have a car you'll have to really factor that into your choice of where to live in the city.

I live in downtown Menlo Park (the next little one south from RWC - let's pretend Atherton doesn't exist because they would want it that way anyway) right across the street from Trader Joe's, four blocks from yoga, a few blocks from a major indy bookstore and cafe, etc. Language Pacifica is here too. It's lovely. But I'm in my mid-30s, a homebody and I can walk to my job in 20 minutes.

If I were just moving here, young, wanted nightlife and could hack an hour on the train, I'd live in the city no question. When I was 25 I moved to NYC, commuted an hour and 45 minutes EACH WAY to get to my job (I lived in Manhattan and worked on Long Island) and didn't regret it at all. I read a lot of books. I'd kill myself if I had to do it now, but my lifestyle has shifted. I think you would regret not at least trying it out while you have the energy for the additional madness.
posted by marylynn at 9:55 AM on March 11

To help keep your within-SF commute to a minimum (it sucks to be dependent on both Caltrain and MUNI), the SOMA and Mission Bay neighborhoods are right next to the 4th and King Caltrain station, and are both pretty safe. You're then easy walking distance to great bars and restaurants, nightclubs and downtown. It's a relatively "young" area, though maybe more hipster-young than inexpensive-young.

Be aware, SOMA gets more sketchy as the numbered streets get higher. 6th-10th, especially around Mission Street, can be a bit sketchy at night, though maybe OK for a guy.

There are a lot of new rental buildings and for-rent condos there, and while prices are not cheap, they are falling. Look on Craigslist and don't be shy to ask for 10-20% off the list price.

There's also a Caltrain station at 22nd street, but I don't know that area at all.

Welcome to the Bay Area!
posted by CruiseSavvy at 9:55 AM on March 11

When I moved to a new places, I tried to find someone who needed a roommate, and offered a 6 month commitment, or a housesit. That gives you enough time to check things out. Plus, a good roommate can help you find you way around.
posted by theora55 at 2:33 PM on March 11

I haven't read the other posts here in too much detail, so apologies for any repetition:

-The change in distance to SF between the southernmost city on that list (Redwood City) and the northernmost (San Mateo) is negligible. You're talking about a 35-minute drive to the city versus a 40-minute drive. So I wouldn't worry about that. If being closer to SF matters, consider somewhere a little farther north, like San Bruno.
-As has been pointed out, you will be able to find yoga and dance classes within a reasonable distance of any of the cities on that list, and probably language classes too.
-It should be noted that Hillsdale is not a city, just an area along the San Mateo/Belmont border.
-There are (relatively) cheap rentals abound in the Belmont/Hillsdale area, and certain parts of Redwood City. Of the cities listed, Redwood City probably has the biggest supply of houses (as opposed to apartments) for rent, if that's what you're interested in.
-Two other cities in the same region that you didn't list are Foster City and Redwood Shores, both of which are smaller suburban communities built on landfill on the edge of the bay.
-You will need a car, regardless of which of these places you live in. Well, I shouldn't say NEED, but relying on public transportation will be severely limiting. Caltrain serves a limited subsection of the peninsula, runs infrequently or not at all (especially late at night), and is kind of pricey. It also doesn't give you very good access to SF; it only stops in two neighborhoods in the southeast corner of the city: Potrero Hill (the 22nd street stop - residential area) and SoMa (the end of the line - close to the ballpark but most of the things in the city you'll want to go to will require a fair walk or a transfer from there). BART doesn't service most of the peninsula - it ends in Millbrae (two Caltrain stops north of San Mateo), and is likewise pricey and infrequent, although it gives you much better access to downtown SF than Caltrain. Most buses (Samtrans) are pretty useless.
-Redwood City has a nice, revitalized downtown area with a great library, a big movie theatre, and plenty of cafes and that sort of thing. As has been pointed out, neither it nor anywhere else on your list has a wild nightlife.
-San Carlos and Belmont are almost interchangeable, in my book. Both have modest downtowns, are fairly suburban. Nothing objectionable but probably not the best place for a young professional. The same goes for neighboring cities to the north like Burlingame and San Bruno.
-San Mateo is the largest city on your list, the most sprawling and, to my mind, the blandest, but by a small margin. It does have a nice central location.
-For any of these cities there is a difference between living on the western end (near 280 and the ocean, up in the hills) and living on the eastern end (near 101 and the bay), so keep that in mind. If it interests you, you could also consider Half Moon Bay, a smallish beach town on the other side of the hills - the commute wouldn't be as long as you think, maybe 30 minutes.
-Some people have mentioned that you shouldn't write off living in SF. I agree that there are parts of SF from which the commute wouldn't be too bad and which are not prohibitively expensive. SoMa and Potrero are two, because of closeness to Caltrain stations. Unfortunately, the safer, nicer part of SoMa is pretty expensive now. There is also the southern part of San Francisco that gets unfairly ignored by a lot of people - neighborhoods like Glen Park. That area is relatively cheap, has BART access, and is close to both major freeways. The disadvantage, of course, is that you won't be able to walk to much - you'll have to drive or take a train to get into the more vibrant parts of SF. Conversely, though, I think people exaggerate how difficult it is to spend time in the city if you live on the peninsula and own a car. It just really is not that far. If you're not driving during commuting hours, traffic is very light, and with a few neighborhoods excepted, the parking situation is fine. It's just a matter of deciding you WANT to spend time in SF. Lots of people lament about not getting into the city enough, but they're just too lazy to go.

More than anything, I would emphasize that the cities you have listed are much more the same than they are different. They are one very geographically small block, and I bet lots of SF residents couldn't arrange them on a map to save their lives. None of them is truly set apart from the group to a newcomer, so don't worry about the distinctions between cities too much - focus on finding a place you like at a price you like.

I've lived in the area for more or less my whole life, and would be happy to answer any other questions - feel free to MeFi Mail me.

Oh, and since rkent asked: Chavez Taqueria, El Grullense, and Taqueria Gonzalez are all quite good, among others.
posted by EnormousTalkingOnion at 8:28 PM on March 11