Pregnancy and academic employment
March 1, 2009 1:46 PM Subscribe
I was recently offered a prestigious postdoc. Yay! I'm pregnant and due a few weeks after the postdoc starts. Yay! Except these two things seem not to be working together very well. What to do?
Because I will be giving birth a few weeks after the postdoc starts, I wrote to the department telling them I happily accept the position, but asked them whether it would be possible to defer the appointment by a year because of my pregnancy. I received a rather (to me) startling response, which I am reproducing below:
My congratulations to you for being pregnant with your first child. That must be very exciting for you. However, it does present problems for us. Please be assured that the committee was very enthusiastic about your proposal and other work and decided to award you a fellowship. It's just that you would be unable to fulfill the requirements of the fellowship if you tried to be a fellow next fall. Let me elaborate.
First, this is a residential fellowship that does require you to be in City X for 4 out of 5 days of the week. The second requirement of the fellowship is attendance at the weekly colloquia, having read the paper and ready to discuss it. Fellows are permitted to miss only one Friday each semester. Re: deferment of the fellowship. We are not able to permit you to defer the fellowship for a year, but, because you have done so well in this pool (and it was our largest pool of candidates ever), we would strongly advise you to reapply.
Finally, permit me to talk to you as a mother and grandmother. You can't even imagine how motherhood is going to change your life in wonderful ways. You can't know now how much time you will want to spend with your new baby, how hard it will be to be separated, even for brief times, in the first few months. I have known many first-time mothers who have wanted to combine motherhood and scholarship and fully believed, before giving birth, that they could "do it all." It really isn't possible in the beginning and it shouldn't be. I can't tell you not to accept this fellowship, but I can suggest that you wait and try again when your baby is a bit older. I'd be happy to talk more with you if you want to call me here in my office.
An important piece of information not mentioned in this letter is that the university in question has a maternity leave policy in place for postdocs, so it would be my right to take paid maternity leave (as much as they obviously don't want me to). Also, unlike a postdoc in the sciences, this position has fellows work independently on their own solo research projects, with a colloquium/seminar with invited speakers once a week.
So, how do I deal with this situation? The way I see it the options are:
1. Back down, decline, and reapply next year, thus letting them effectively discriminate at will.
2. Take the position, go on maternity leave, and antagonize them, thus negating the benefits (mentorship, recommendations, contacts) of getting a postdoc in the first place while at the same time making my own life as a new mother quite difficult.
Has anyone dealt with a similar situation? What to do?
Because I will be giving birth a few weeks after the postdoc starts, I wrote to the department telling them I happily accept the position, but asked them whether it would be possible to defer the appointment by a year because of my pregnancy. I received a rather (to me) startling response, which I am reproducing below:
My congratulations to you for being pregnant with your first child. That must be very exciting for you. However, it does present problems for us. Please be assured that the committee was very enthusiastic about your proposal and other work and decided to award you a fellowship. It's just that you would be unable to fulfill the requirements of the fellowship if you tried to be a fellow next fall. Let me elaborate.
First, this is a residential fellowship that does require you to be in City X for 4 out of 5 days of the week. The second requirement of the fellowship is attendance at the weekly colloquia, having read the paper and ready to discuss it. Fellows are permitted to miss only one Friday each semester. Re: deferment of the fellowship. We are not able to permit you to defer the fellowship for a year, but, because you have done so well in this pool (and it was our largest pool of candidates ever), we would strongly advise you to reapply.
Finally, permit me to talk to you as a mother and grandmother. You can't even imagine how motherhood is going to change your life in wonderful ways. You can't know now how much time you will want to spend with your new baby, how hard it will be to be separated, even for brief times, in the first few months. I have known many first-time mothers who have wanted to combine motherhood and scholarship and fully believed, before giving birth, that they could "do it all." It really isn't possible in the beginning and it shouldn't be. I can't tell you not to accept this fellowship, but I can suggest that you wait and try again when your baby is a bit older. I'd be happy to talk more with you if you want to call me here in my office.
An important piece of information not mentioned in this letter is that the university in question has a maternity leave policy in place for postdocs, so it would be my right to take paid maternity leave (as much as they obviously don't want me to). Also, unlike a postdoc in the sciences, this position has fellows work independently on their own solo research projects, with a colloquium/seminar with invited speakers once a week.
So, how do I deal with this situation? The way I see it the options are:
1. Back down, decline, and reapply next year, thus letting them effectively discriminate at will.
2. Take the position, go on maternity leave, and antagonize them, thus negating the benefits (mentorship, recommendations, contacts) of getting a postdoc in the first place while at the same time making my own life as a new mother quite difficult.
Has anyone dealt with a similar situation? What to do?
This post was deleted for the following reason: poster's request. -- jessamyn
Are you sure that postdocs are eligible for maternity leave before they even begin their assignment? The maternity leave may or may not apply to your situation if you are not already a postdoc with this university.
As a working mother, believe me, I can understand your disappointment and predicament. On the other hand, as an ex-manager, I also would have a difficult time having an applicant to whom I extended a job offer request that I put the position on hold for them for a year for any reason before I have ever worked with them.
posted by jeanmari at 2:06 PM on March 1, 2009
As a working mother, believe me, I can understand your disappointment and predicament. On the other hand, as an ex-manager, I also would have a difficult time having an applicant to whom I extended a job offer request that I put the position on hold for them for a year for any reason before I have ever worked with them.
posted by jeanmari at 2:06 PM on March 1, 2009
Yeah,usually maternity leave policies only kick in if you've been on the payroll for a certain length of time. Check up on that before you make any decisions.
posted by otherwordlyglow at 2:08 PM on March 1, 2009
posted by otherwordlyglow at 2:08 PM on March 1, 2009
I think you pretty much answered the question; from the wording of the letter; they want you; but not in these conditions. I'd personnaly prefer a delayed prestigious postdoc and a satisfying year with the baby than trying to argue with potential future peers and leave a bad impression. I am in a PhD program and just had a baby, and it is quite a challenge on a daily basis. I was able to manage it directly with professors without resorting to taking a leave, but I wouldn't see myself imposing them a policy after agreeing to particular conditions; after all academic jobs are so rare (especially I the humanities) that it's not worth getting in such a bad situation.
I realize that not being able to take advantage of the maternity leave is indeed a form of discrimination, but if you weight the advantages and the disadvantages of each solution ( especially if they specifically told you what they expect and urged you to reapply), it's worth thinking about it twice. And a postdoc isn't exactly like a job, they'll have postdoc students every year and it is to their advantage to get the best ones every year.
posted by ddaavviidd at 2:10 PM on March 1, 2009
I realize that not being able to take advantage of the maternity leave is indeed a form of discrimination, but if you weight the advantages and the disadvantages of each solution ( especially if they specifically told you what they expect and urged you to reapply), it's worth thinking about it twice. And a postdoc isn't exactly like a job, they'll have postdoc students every year and it is to their advantage to get the best ones every year.
posted by ddaavviidd at 2:10 PM on March 1, 2009
Lame. That response is especially annoying because you don't want to be away for the first few months...hence the request for a deferral.
I would try to talk to the department head (if that's not who wrote the above message) to get a different opinion. Has the department done deferrals under any other circumstances? What have they done in the past with maternity leave and how did it work out? Do you have a plan for childcare and returning to a normal schedule if you do take the maternity leave option?
Also, while it will be hard, having a child during a postdoc is not the worst timing, especially if you won't be teaching and you'll be making your own research schedule. I've seen people do it before. It's hard, but it's possible if you're already a naturally focused and organized person.
Good luck!
posted by Alison at 2:18 PM on March 1, 2009
I would try to talk to the department head (if that's not who wrote the above message) to get a different opinion. Has the department done deferrals under any other circumstances? What have they done in the past with maternity leave and how did it work out? Do you have a plan for childcare and returning to a normal schedule if you do take the maternity leave option?
Also, while it will be hard, having a child during a postdoc is not the worst timing, especially if you won't be teaching and you'll be making your own research schedule. I've seen people do it before. It's hard, but it's possible if you're already a naturally focused and organized person.
Good luck!
posted by Alison at 2:18 PM on March 1, 2009
Call her and talk about deferring. Sometimes these things happen after multiple conversations with multiple people. Find out the reasons why she won't consider deferral, and try to address them. If you were really #1 now, why won't they let you defer for one year? I wouldn't consider it case closed yet. A number of friends have had deferral requests finally granted.
posted by barnone at 2:20 PM on March 1, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by barnone at 2:20 PM on March 1, 2009 [1 favorite]
I would first independently verify that the maternity leave policy would apply to your specific situation.
Then I would talk honestly to the department about how good your chances would be at being accepted again next year. If you get a decent feeling, I would reapply and just enjoy this first year with your little one. (Congratulations.)
posted by meerkatty at 2:21 PM on March 1, 2009
Then I would talk honestly to the department about how good your chances would be at being accepted again next year. If you get a decent feeling, I would reapply and just enjoy this first year with your little one. (Congratulations.)
posted by meerkatty at 2:21 PM on March 1, 2009
Does the reference to City X mean you don't live there already, and aren't planning on moving there - just want to commute? And what, you can't read ONE paper a week and attend a seminar once a week with a baby? People do way more than that.
Yes, a first child is really hard and they're being asses about not letting you defer (see above for pushing them on this), and with this language of mothering from the program chair. But if you don't have any other offers lined up, and this is otherwise an awesome postdoc for you, and conversations with the head of the department/program AND dean don't lead to granting you a deferral, just take it. A baby and postdoc are not the worst things to manage. A baby and full-time adjuncting is awful. A newborn and a 3/3 or 3/4 load is ridiculous. A newborn and even a 2/2 load is hard. But a postdoc with residency and seminar requirements really aren't all that bad, in fact, you'll have it better than probably 98% of working mothers out there in the US. Kids and academia (especially for women on the tenure-track) are really, really frustrating... but this isn't the worst scenario to imagine.
Congrats on both, by the way.
posted by barnone at 2:28 PM on March 1, 2009
Yes, a first child is really hard and they're being asses about not letting you defer (see above for pushing them on this), and with this language of mothering from the program chair. But if you don't have any other offers lined up, and this is otherwise an awesome postdoc for you, and conversations with the head of the department/program AND dean don't lead to granting you a deferral, just take it. A baby and postdoc are not the worst things to manage. A baby and full-time adjuncting is awful. A newborn and a 3/3 or 3/4 load is ridiculous. A newborn and even a 2/2 load is hard. But a postdoc with residency and seminar requirements really aren't all that bad, in fact, you'll have it better than probably 98% of working mothers out there in the US. Kids and academia (especially for women on the tenure-track) are really, really frustrating... but this isn't the worst scenario to imagine.
Congrats on both, by the way.
posted by barnone at 2:28 PM on March 1, 2009
I really sympathize with you. Sometimes, it seems impossible to combine my career ambitions in academia with my hopes for a family life. However, I'm also really surprised that you didn't consider this problem earlier. Most postdoc applications that I've seen have deadlines in late fall/winter. Presumably, you knew that you were pregnant when you applied, and you knew approximately when the appointment would start. Did you plan to try to defer at the time you made your application?
I'm truly not trying to be snarky here, but I understand completely why they don't want to bring you on at exactly the same time that you're becoming a new mother. They probably have hundreds of other well-qualified applicants who would be able to take advantage of the appointment immediately. I'm sure it is their hope that the recipient of this position would be able to concentrate entirely on the work that the award is designed to fund. I think you'll agree that giving birth at exactly the time that you're supposed to begin your appointment is probably going to be a significant distraction. How long is the postdoc fellowship? One year? Two? More? If it's the former, the new baby would probably obliterate about half of the time you're there.
Honestly, I agree with you; this isn't fair. In my opinion, academia in general is not fair to women who want to have families. However, if I was in your position, I would do exactly what the women you emailed you suggested. If you're competitive enough to take top billing in this prestigious postdoc, and they're inviting you to apply again, chances are that you'll find another position next year. Even if it's not at this awesome place. Again, I'm really sorry that you're in this position. It must be really hard to think about letting this opportunity go. I think, in the long run, it's probably the right decision though.
posted by theantikitty at 2:36 PM on March 1, 2009
I'm truly not trying to be snarky here, but I understand completely why they don't want to bring you on at exactly the same time that you're becoming a new mother. They probably have hundreds of other well-qualified applicants who would be able to take advantage of the appointment immediately. I'm sure it is their hope that the recipient of this position would be able to concentrate entirely on the work that the award is designed to fund. I think you'll agree that giving birth at exactly the time that you're supposed to begin your appointment is probably going to be a significant distraction. How long is the postdoc fellowship? One year? Two? More? If it's the former, the new baby would probably obliterate about half of the time you're there.
Honestly, I agree with you; this isn't fair. In my opinion, academia in general is not fair to women who want to have families. However, if I was in your position, I would do exactly what the women you emailed you suggested. If you're competitive enough to take top billing in this prestigious postdoc, and they're inviting you to apply again, chances are that you'll find another position next year. Even if it's not at this awesome place. Again, I'm really sorry that you're in this position. It must be really hard to think about letting this opportunity go. I think, in the long run, it's probably the right decision though.
posted by theantikitty at 2:36 PM on March 1, 2009
All these people suggesting she let it go without a fight or conversation...what is she supposed to do? Have you seen the number of job freezes and cancellations? It's like a Ph.D. bloodbath out there right now. Next year WILL BE WORSE.
I mean, if she has another job lined up, can stay in grad school under their healthcare and teach enough to make ends meet (again with the baby problem), or a partner to support her while taking a year off, then fine, letting it go is a great idea.
But if it's a matter between taking the position which was offered to her and making it work (even if they're unhappy about it initially) or just doing nothing for a year and hoping for an academic job next year, seriously, that's what you'd suggest?
Have you guys even looked for jobs in the humanities this year? It's not just hard, it's downright astonishing. A bird in the hand in this job market is like 10 in the bush. If they will not defer (after talking to deans, the chair of the program, another dean, HR office, etc.), then take the job, have the baby, get a sitter, work your ass off, be exhausted, thank your lucky stars for a healthy baby and a kick-ass job. For real.
posted by barnone at 2:47 PM on March 1, 2009 [7 favorites]
I mean, if she has another job lined up, can stay in grad school under their healthcare and teach enough to make ends meet (again with the baby problem), or a partner to support her while taking a year off, then fine, letting it go is a great idea.
But if it's a matter between taking the position which was offered to her and making it work (even if they're unhappy about it initially) or just doing nothing for a year and hoping for an academic job next year, seriously, that's what you'd suggest?
Have you guys even looked for jobs in the humanities this year? It's not just hard, it's downright astonishing. A bird in the hand in this job market is like 10 in the bush. If they will not defer (after talking to deans, the chair of the program, another dean, HR office, etc.), then take the job, have the baby, get a sitter, work your ass off, be exhausted, thank your lucky stars for a healthy baby and a kick-ass job. For real.
posted by barnone at 2:47 PM on March 1, 2009 [7 favorites]
I can see how her language is irritating but she's right. It's not a question of discrimination, it's a question of reality that some people would like to pretend ain't so. Parenting a newborn is not compatible with certain pursuits. The requirements of the postdoc you want to do are incompatible with *parenting* a newborn, not mothering one. Just cause people manage it occasionally doesn't make it a good idea.
Plus, are you are bugnuts? Are you totally missing what she is saying here? She is saying WE WANT YOU, REAPPLY. She cannot legally tell you that the position will absolutely be available, but come on, she is obviously going to move heaven and earth to get you the postdoc *when you have a year old baby, not a newborn.* AND then this person is going to have your back forever.
Realize that whoever wrote this was willing to open herself up to a discrimination suit because she wants you in the department that badly! Don't mess it up! My God, to do a postdoc year with that kind of support from another mother! ARGH DON'T MESS THIS UP! TAKE A YEAR OFF! THEN REAPPLY!
posted by daisydaisy at 3:43 PM on March 1, 2009 [2 favorites]
Plus, are you are bugnuts? Are you totally missing what she is saying here? She is saying WE WANT YOU, REAPPLY. She cannot legally tell you that the position will absolutely be available, but come on, she is obviously going to move heaven and earth to get you the postdoc *when you have a year old baby, not a newborn.* AND then this person is going to have your back forever.
Realize that whoever wrote this was willing to open herself up to a discrimination suit because she wants you in the department that badly! Don't mess it up! My God, to do a postdoc year with that kind of support from another mother! ARGH DON'T MESS THIS UP! TAKE A YEAR OFF! THEN REAPPLY!
posted by daisydaisy at 3:43 PM on March 1, 2009 [2 favorites]
I was in a somewhat similar situation years ago, although not a postdoc, I was to start a very important program right before the birth of my daughter. I thought it would work fine, I'd figure it out....only despite being in perfect physical health I ended up on bed rest for a month, and then had an unexpected difficult birth and was out of commission for six additional weeks. It was a humbling disaster. I never could catch up and was forced to drop out.
I agree. Reapply.
I started reading a blog then called BitchPhd and she talks all about what you're going through (she has a similar story to yours).
I wish you luck.
posted by KTrujillo at 4:19 PM on March 1, 2009
I agree. Reapply.
I started reading a blog then called BitchPhd and she talks all about what you're going through (she has a similar story to yours).
I wish you luck.
posted by KTrujillo at 4:19 PM on March 1, 2009
She cannot legally tell you that the position will absolutely be available, but come on, she is obviously going to move heaven and earth to get you the postdoc *when you have a year old baby, not a newborn.* AND then this person is going to have your back forever.
I disagree, if she were able or willing to move heaven and earth, then you would have the requested deferral.
You don't say what country you are in. Are you sure that you are entitled to maternity leave after such a short period at the university in question? Be sure. What if the baby is born early?
Unless you intend on taking it up with a lawyer, I would forget about whether you are "letting them effectively discriminate at will." Think about what is best for your career. Are you assured of getting an equivalent postdoc somewhere the next year? If so, do that, because you obviously will not be able to perform as well with a brand new baby1. If you aren't sure, then you should take the job and muddle through if you can.
Under no circumstances assume that this job is yours next year. If it were, you would already have written assurance of that. If they find someone better than you, they will take them.
1 I hope I have said this in a much less patronizing way than your faculty contact there, ugh.
posted by grouse at 4:27 PM on March 1, 2009 [1 favorite]
I disagree, if she were able or willing to move heaven and earth, then you would have the requested deferral.
You don't say what country you are in. Are you sure that you are entitled to maternity leave after such a short period at the university in question? Be sure. What if the baby is born early?
Unless you intend on taking it up with a lawyer, I would forget about whether you are "letting them effectively discriminate at will." Think about what is best for your career. Are you assured of getting an equivalent postdoc somewhere the next year? If so, do that, because you obviously will not be able to perform as well with a brand new baby1. If you aren't sure, then you should take the job and muddle through if you can.
Under no circumstances assume that this job is yours next year. If it were, you would already have written assurance of that. If they find someone better than you, they will take them.
1 I hope I have said this in a much less patronizing way than your faculty contact there, ugh.
posted by grouse at 4:27 PM on March 1, 2009 [1 favorite]
Wow. Yes, the market for PhDs is a bloodbath this year, and the postdoc market is only slightly better than the job market. All sorts of candidates who would have taken jobs are still in the postdoc pool, creating an embarrassment of riches for search committees (postdoc funding tends to be granted by external funders, so it's less subject to cutbacks).
You say you were "offered" the postdoc. Was this in writing perchance? If so, this may be a legally complex issue and you might want to press the matter above the head of the search committee, if that's who sent you that letter. (Is she also the department chair? That is the logical place to take this next if you want to press it.)
But be aware that making a case of this could poison the well in ways that could have ramifications.
Is this a public or private institution? In which state? These things might matter.
I concur that a bird in the hand is worth a fortune this year; if you can do what barnone suggests and still manage the postdoc, it's worth it. It is *very* hard to continue doing academic work immediately after having a baby. I've seen dozens of students and colleagues try it, not always with success. You need a very supportive partner.
On the other hand, being cool about it might land you this same postdoc next year.
My first reaction to that email text was *yikes!* It skirts legally dubious territory in many contexts. A search committee can revoke an offer if it learns something materially relevant to its decision after making an offer -- say, you weren't going to finish the dissertation this spring like you said. But this could also be considered discriminatory. Ideally, you should talk to a lawyer who knows employment law in the state where the school is located (there are lawyers who specialize in academic employment issues, in fact) but that may seem to be overkill both in terms of cost and in terms of real options: suing for this job, or even threatening legal action, could give you a bad reputation as a litigious colleague in the future. It's not necessarily right, but it's real. But it would help to *know* the law here.
posted by fourcheesemac at 5:06 PM on March 1, 2009 [1 favorite]
You say you were "offered" the postdoc. Was this in writing perchance? If so, this may be a legally complex issue and you might want to press the matter above the head of the search committee, if that's who sent you that letter. (Is she also the department chair? That is the logical place to take this next if you want to press it.)
But be aware that making a case of this could poison the well in ways that could have ramifications.
Is this a public or private institution? In which state? These things might matter.
I concur that a bird in the hand is worth a fortune this year; if you can do what barnone suggests and still manage the postdoc, it's worth it. It is *very* hard to continue doing academic work immediately after having a baby. I've seen dozens of students and colleagues try it, not always with success. You need a very supportive partner.
On the other hand, being cool about it might land you this same postdoc next year.
My first reaction to that email text was *yikes!* It skirts legally dubious territory in many contexts. A search committee can revoke an offer if it learns something materially relevant to its decision after making an offer -- say, you weren't going to finish the dissertation this spring like you said. But this could also be considered discriminatory. Ideally, you should talk to a lawyer who knows employment law in the state where the school is located (there are lawyers who specialize in academic employment issues, in fact) but that may seem to be overkill both in terms of cost and in terms of real options: suing for this job, or even threatening legal action, could give you a bad reputation as a litigious colleague in the future. It's not necessarily right, but it's real. But it would help to *know* the law here.
posted by fourcheesemac at 5:06 PM on March 1, 2009 [1 favorite]
This thread is closed to new comments.
Having said that, as a mother and grandmother myself, and as politically incorrect as it is, what she said about new motherhood is quite true. There is no life experience that can compare to it and if one has not gone through it before, the total upheaval of life is impossible to anticipate or even imagine.
I would take her up on her offer and call her and talk to her quite frankly about your concerns, at least. You are well within your rights to choose not to defer-and I completely understand your not wanting to accept being discriminated against-but this might be a case where practicality might trump all.
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 1:55 PM on March 1, 2009