Why should I pay when I had to teach myself

February 9, 2009 7:27 AM

If I paid for a class to help me pass a test but I received real assistance towards passing the test, can I contest paying for that class?

My wife attended the teacher education program through the University of La Verne, at one of their satellite campuses near our home. Ideally, she would have continued on to get her masters through this program, but her experiences with the teaching program made her (and her classmates) decide it wasn't worth it.

My wife took one class in particular to pass a test (I've forgotten the name, sorry) that would allow her to be a high school teacher. The professor of the class treated her class as more of a hindrance to her weekend plans than her job (the teacher lived a couple hours away, and the class was on the weekends). The professor's job was to prepare her students for this test, but she wouldn't give specific feedback in some cases, because she was also a grader for these test, and could end up grading on of her students. When my wife asked the head of the local program, she was told that there wasn't a conflict of interest, and the professor should be giving specific feedback. When my wife and other students complained higher up the chain, they were told the professor was a good person, and "don't worry, you'll all get A's."

My wife and some of her classmates studied and worked together to make sense of the study material. They ended up passing, and she is now teaching. She hasn't paid the remainder of her tuition yet, and one of her class-mates was looking into how to challenge paying for some classes. I figured I could tap the hive-mind for some insight.

Notes: I won't name any names beyond the University, because I don't wish to lay much blame on anyone beyond the University. My wife and her classmates had enough experiences with La Verne that they aren't shy about their feelings. If calling out the university is bad form, I'll accept post deletion. My wife and I will pay some of the tuition, and all if need be. The tuition pay-back will be a temporary financial strain, but that's not the issue. She feels that she and her friends taught each-other the material, but still payed the professor to come and have a weekend get-away in our town, and the administration treated the students like children.

posted by filthy light thief to education (6 comments total)

IAAP, although IANYWP. (Thank goodness.)

1) How far up the chain did your wife & her fellow students complain? Department chair, dean, provost, president? Did they do so in writing?

2) To play devil's advocate: everyone passed the course and passed the test, thanks to a study group. They're going to have to convince the relevant administrator(s) that the $ should be refunded even though they achieved the desired outcome. IOW, it would be much easier to prove negligence if somebody (or multiple somebodies) had failed the course and/or exam. There will have to be a more specific complaint than, well, "wasn't specific."
posted by thomas j wise at 7:50 AM on February 9

Unfortunately, provided the university does in fact certify you with a grade on an official transcript, the "quality" of your education is not an actionable issue. The only way of dealing with that is voting with your feet.

When you think about it, this is really the only position the courts can take, as what constitutes a "good" education is not a justiciable legal issue, i.e. it isn't an issue for which the courts can fashion an administrable definition. What exactly would make education "good enough" to avoid getting sued? This is particularly problematic given the wide range of institutional quality in the US. If institution A doesn't provide as "good" an education as institution B, why wouldn't institution always be liable? Would every school that isn't an Ivy be liable? If not, why not, and where do you draw the line? Wouldn't this simply adjudicate marginal schools out of existence? Given that the people that go there usually couldn't get in anywhere better, wouldn't we be denying them a useful social good?

No, the only way the courts can deal with this is through enforcing the certification of grades and accreditation procedures.

Ideally, the bad reviews your wife and her classmates give their instructor will convince the university to look for someone else, but honestly, test-prep courses like this one are basically pure money for the school, especially at one as far down the academic ladder as La Verne.

You're just gonna have to pay.
posted by valkyryn at 7:54 AM on February 9

So she kept going to the lessons, but wants her money back? It's a bit late for that!
posted by devnull at 7:59 AM on February 9

The fact that she and others needed a study group is not a reliable indication of a bad class or a poor instructor. Studying and study groups a normal part of the education process. She may have had a dud class, but the evidence you've provided doesn't substantiate that.

Pay for the class.
posted by 26.2 at 8:03 AM on February 9

There are crappy professors. No way around that. She finished the class and passed the test. So the class objectives were met. Even if she had failed the test and/or the class, that would hardly be grounds for not having to pay tuition. If that were the case, I know a lot of people who would fail classes just so they could get the college experience but not have to pay for it.

Best case outcome is most likely that they get a new person to teach the class. The school will argue the points outlined above, and probably even that they provided you with your study group by having the class in the first place.
posted by theichibun at 9:01 AM on February 9

Thanks, good points. My wife was pretty angry during the class, but her anger has simmered to a general annoyance at the whole experience. We'll register our thoughts at appropriate locations, and probably just move on with life.

thomas j wise - She has a series of emails with higher-ups, but I'm not sure how far it went. I'll ask her.

theichibun - sadly, much of the program seems content with just passing students. Maybe that's a problem with this satellite school, where most of the profs have to travel a few hours once or twice a week to teach here, or maybe it's system-wide. Either way, not much hope for that.
posted by filthy light thief at 9:09 AM on February 9