HTML Job Title

October 31, 2004 9:04 AM

Random question : How would you describe people who create HTML? We're not programmers. We aren't really coders. How would you describe us?

(Apart from stereotypically skinny and semi-gothic or resembling comic shop guy from Simpsons!)

It's largely academic to me now as I normally work in PHP which lets me call myself a coder, but I'm writing a Cv and it's bugging me. The phrase "[...] leading team of 4 HTML writers." really doesn't scan properly no matter what word I finish the sentance with...

posted by twine42 to Work & Money (25 answers total)

are you not a designer?
maybe in big places there's a separate designer, but when i've worked on this kind of thing it's been in small teams and i write the code, they do the (visual) design.
posted by andrew cooke at 9:13 AM on October 31, 2004

Response by poster: I'm not a designer, although I can do it. I do the PHP and the HTML.

I suppose my problem is with the concept that HTMl is a markup language, so I feel we should almost be a group of "HTML cyberspace typesetters". 'coders' feels like entirely the wrong word for us.
posted by twine42 at 9:33 AM on October 31, 2004

HTML is code. It's not a programming language, but it's a computer language, and thus code.
posted by kindall at 9:34 AM on October 31, 2004

i do PHP and HTML and I call myself a web developer.

I develop pages, apps, etc for the web => web developer.

I've also seen job titles that describe HTML monkey as web producers.
posted by Stynxno at 9:40 AM on October 31, 2004

My friend's job title is Content Developer. But she doesn't write the content, she makes it work on the web. So she is an HTML writer, and that's what she calls herself most of the time.
posted by sageleaf at 9:42 AM on October 31, 2004

I've generally referred to those roles around HTML and all the detail work around getting a site to work right (sizing and formatting graphics, browser compatibility, etc.) as the "production team"--seems to describe that seam between the more conceptual level of "design" and the more tech/engineering level of "development" pretty well.
posted by LairBob at 9:50 AM on October 31, 2004

i'm curious - i don't know any php, but i do know java. in those terms i'd say that if you write jsp pages using custom tags you're not programming, but if you write the code that implements the custom tags you are programming. how does that translate to php?

how about something with the word "layout" or "presentation"? you're working on the presentation layer, so "presentation engineer" would be appropriate (not that i've ever heard it).

html isn't turing complete (but javascript is, and xsl is, just). in my book you're not a programmer unless you work with a turing complete language (php certainly is, but i'm not sure how much you really code in it - hence my first question). web developer, to me, means you can make a pretty complicated site without help (you know sql, for example).

on preview - production sounds good.
posted by andrew cooke at 9:58 AM on October 31, 2004

web UI developer.
posted by Hackworth at 10:34 AM on October 31, 2004

Response by poster: UI developer? Nah... that's the job of the graphics designers. Our job is to beat them around the head with single button mice until they design a version that can be recreated in HTML. ;)

"turing complete"? I've never met that phrase before... time for some googling...
posted by twine42 at 11:07 AM on October 31, 2004

With PHP, if you want to stay sane, you separate the code from the HTML markup with a templating system ... at least, that's my experience with it. So you really do some heavy duty coding, although a lot of time the bulk of it is just manipulating variables, since half of the stuff you need to do is abstracted already.

I typically call HTML coders/designers webmonkeys, although probably not on a resume. ;)
posted by SpecialK at 11:15 AM on October 31, 2004

turing complete just means you can do anything in it (well, anything that you can using any other language, or maths). so it needs loops, some way of managing variables (more correctly, "state"), etc.

SpecialK - thanks, sounds the same as the custom tags distinction (which is template-related).
posted by andrew cooke at 11:26 AM on October 31, 2004

webmaster, or webwizard
posted by SpaceCadet at 11:31 AM on October 31, 2004

What kindall said. HTML is code. You are not creating algorithms, you are not using a language that is remotely Turing-complete, but you are encoding document structure and content into a form that will be parsed, interpreted, and rendered by another program. Calling it code may be the most precise term you can use.

Developer works for me too, tho'.
posted by weston at 12:13 PM on October 31, 2004

I vote for Web Developer, if you write markup by hand, know sql, deal with any scripting, server configuration, etc. If you use DreamWeaver or the like, then you're a web designer.
posted by maniactown at 1:07 PM on October 31, 2004

i'm confused. do people using "coding" to mean something other than "programming"? to me they've always been synonyms (i'm not arguing about whether html "is code" or not, but asking what the verb "coding" means in everyday use).
posted by andrew cooke at 1:47 PM on October 31, 2004

"Website builders."

Maniactown, I always assume "developer" includes some scripting. If someone just does HTML/XHTML hand-coding, I call them site builders because that is essentially what they are doing. If they do design as well I add that to the description. ;)
posted by litlnemo at 1:51 PM on October 31, 2004

I work in advertising. In my field, the people who come up with a vague idea, and possibly scrawl it on a napkin (if they have time between drinks) are called Art Directors or Creative Directors. The folks who then create the finished art are Production Artists, or more generally, Commercial Artists.

So I'm going to call you a Network Artist.
posted by ba at 1:51 PM on October 31, 2004

graphic designers are designers, developers are developers. if it's not backend, it's UI. UI development does not require design skills, but the job of a designer and developer can overlap. good web design, however, does require knowledge of how UI code works in general, at least, in order to avoid unusable websites.

at the companies I've worked at where there are seperate design and development teams, the designers are called production artists and the non-backend developers are called UI developers.
posted by Hackworth at 2:27 PM on October 31, 2004

I've been doing this for about ten years, and have always called myself a web developer. I have recently started a new job at a creative agency where I'm still a web developer, but am also leading that section of my company, and also working on a big chunk of project management too (ugh..)

Anyway, they decided to call me the "Production Director", which is not too bad, however all of my friends ask me what movies am I making nowadays :(

On the other hand, after doing this for ten years, I'm starting of think of calling myself just "crazy".
posted by punkrockrat at 6:40 PM on October 31, 2004

I think a label like "Web Developer" or related terms such as "Web Builder" are a close fit but not quite exact. They imply that you are involved in the creative processes that contribute to the design of a web site or application. The lone act of writing HTML is a production task that implies the content and structure of the end-product has already been laid out and handed to you for implementation. Therefore, writing HTML is best described as "coding" as has been said already.
posted by tomorama at 8:18 PM on October 31, 2004

Just say "I make shit work."
posted by spilon at 9:50 PM on October 31, 2004

How would you describe people who create HTML?

Poor.

At least that's why I got out of the biz. When it was first starting out, we called ourselves coders. Then, in the mid-90s, when you could get paid $100/hr for HTML (wistful sigh) we all started making sure that HTML or Web Page appeared in all our conversations, resumes and business cards.

Ten years later, HTML just seems sad--once exclusive, now pervasive; once exotic, now mundane; once a lucrative aspiration, now a rent-paying fall-back. So it goes.
posted by squirrel at 11:05 PM on October 31, 2004

Poor.

*sigh* So, so true.
posted by litlnemo at 12:23 AM on November 1, 2004

developer.
posted by xammerboy at 10:10 AM on November 1, 2004

The terms used in my workplace are "content author" or "content developer". This distinguishes them from the "web developers," who primarily write software rather than markup.
posted by majick at 11:59 AM on November 1, 2004