I knew hardwood floors can be expensive, but this expensive?
February 4, 2009 1:45 AM Subscribe
What's a relatively reasonable amount to expect to pay to repair a hardwood floor in an office? I know, how long is a piece of string, etc. but this seems just a bit out of whack to me...
Long story short, we used to rent a very small (150 sq ft) office in downtown Vancouver near Gastown, but moved on to bigger and better quarters recently. The building is old and the office has hardwood floors which were apparently recently "discovered" under the rug that had been there for decades. The building was undergoing some upgrades when we moved in and it seems tearing out the carpet and spiffing up the hardwood beneath was all the rage at the time of our move-in. I noticed the day we moved in that these floors were pretty fragile, as just getting down on my hands and knees to run a bit of CAT5 cable I was getting a few splinters here and there despite the floor being freshly refurbished, so we went out and got some mats for our chairs to prevent wholesale destruction. However, despite our best intentions a couple of years later there are a few spots where our chairs sat that have what I would consider minor damage, as in about a millimeter or so of wood is worn/splintered away in spots.
The property management company is telling us that we're looking at $1500 to repair this. The total affected area that is damaged is less than 10 square feet, so this seems to me to be more than a little high. They're saying the entire suite will have to be sanded down and then resealed/varnished to do it properly. Again though we're talking a total "suite" size of 150 square feet, so even if they did have to go all scorched earth on it, would it really be $1500 worth of work to use a floor sander on 150 square feet and then apply varnish/sealant? Also are they correct that the whole floor has to be done to effect repair, or are they just trying to squeeze a few extra bucks out of a former tenant when it seems they're having trouble renting the (growing) list of vacant suites out?
Long story short, we used to rent a very small (150 sq ft) office in downtown Vancouver near Gastown, but moved on to bigger and better quarters recently. The building is old and the office has hardwood floors which were apparently recently "discovered" under the rug that had been there for decades. The building was undergoing some upgrades when we moved in and it seems tearing out the carpet and spiffing up the hardwood beneath was all the rage at the time of our move-in. I noticed the day we moved in that these floors were pretty fragile, as just getting down on my hands and knees to run a bit of CAT5 cable I was getting a few splinters here and there despite the floor being freshly refurbished, so we went out and got some mats for our chairs to prevent wholesale destruction. However, despite our best intentions a couple of years later there are a few spots where our chairs sat that have what I would consider minor damage, as in about a millimeter or so of wood is worn/splintered away in spots.
The property management company is telling us that we're looking at $1500 to repair this. The total affected area that is damaged is less than 10 square feet, so this seems to me to be more than a little high. They're saying the entire suite will have to be sanded down and then resealed/varnished to do it properly. Again though we're talking a total "suite" size of 150 square feet, so even if they did have to go all scorched earth on it, would it really be $1500 worth of work to use a floor sander on 150 square feet and then apply varnish/sealant? Also are they correct that the whole floor has to be done to effect repair, or are they just trying to squeeze a few extra bucks out of a former tenant when it seems they're having trouble renting the (growing) list of vacant suites out?
I Assume it is just normal wear, and the repairs are the responsibility of the property owner. If you did not misuse or damage the floor on purpose, you are (probably) not obliged to pay. Spilling coffee or moving your chair is normal use. Take a close look at your contract!
That said, $1500 sounds a bit steep to me. I'd say it can be done in 8 hours, and some materials. I live in Holland, where I would not pay more than €600. I am not a repairman.
posted by Psychnic at 2:30 AM on February 4, 2009
That said, $1500 sounds a bit steep to me. I'd say it can be done in 8 hours, and some materials. I live in Holland, where I would not pay more than €600. I am not a repairman.
posted by Psychnic at 2:30 AM on February 4, 2009
I don't think it is unreasonable to get the whole lot sanded/refinished if nearly 10% is damaged. I can't think of a way to do anything else on multiple square feet of marking.
$1500 aussie dollars got our whole apartment professionally done a few years ago, so a few more quotes seem in order, but I would guess you won't get a price less than half that, it does take a few days what with sanding, patching, polyurethane coats drying etc.
Perhaps you could argue the whole lot was already in marginal condition, so you should only be up for 50% of the total cost? It isn't your responsibility to bring it back to a condition better than it was when you moved in. This goes doubly if they were not adequately finished when you moved in, which I would expect was the case if you could get a splinter.
posted by bystander at 2:41 AM on February 4, 2009
$1500 aussie dollars got our whole apartment professionally done a few years ago, so a few more quotes seem in order, but I would guess you won't get a price less than half that, it does take a few days what with sanding, patching, polyurethane coats drying etc.
Perhaps you could argue the whole lot was already in marginal condition, so you should only be up for 50% of the total cost? It isn't your responsibility to bring it back to a condition better than it was when you moved in. This goes doubly if they were not adequately finished when you moved in, which I would expect was the case if you could get a splinter.
posted by bystander at 2:41 AM on February 4, 2009
It sounds like a normal wear and tear situation to me, if this was an apartment you almost certainly wouldn't have to pay for it, I don't know if the situation differs for office space but I can't imagine it does. Check your contract and state laws.
posted by missmagenta at 4:43 AM on February 4, 2009
posted by missmagenta at 4:43 AM on February 4, 2009
Actually, that sounds about right. Psychnic's eight hour estimate sounds far too low to me. If anything, it's likely to take three days, plus the cost of materials. One day for prepping and sanding, one day for varnishing, one day for sealing, and maybe even another day for putting it all back together. Two guys, at least twenty-four hours of work each, and materials... $1500 is actually a deal as far as I can tell.
Though again, bystander is also probably correct: exactly why are you being charged for this? Your landlord is generally responsible for repairs of this sort.
posted by valkyryn at 5:23 AM on February 4, 2009
Though again, bystander is also probably correct: exactly why are you being charged for this? Your landlord is generally responsible for repairs of this sort.
posted by valkyryn at 5:23 AM on February 4, 2009
Unless your chairs have sawblades for casters I can't see hardwood splintering on normal chair sliding. If you are on your hands on a hardwood floor you won't be getting splinters unless the previous refinish job was very poorly done or if the floor was beyond repair. It sounds like the property management company is using you to pay for an entirely new floor to replace the decrepit floor that is in there. Considering they can probably raise your rents to do the same thing, maybe you should pay them and be done with it. Unless of course they jack up the rents anyway.
posted by JJ86 at 5:52 AM on February 4, 2009
posted by JJ86 at 5:52 AM on February 4, 2009
Best answer: I had a 220 sq ft of flooring sanded and three coats of poly put on last year. There was no stain/varnish (because it was a white pine floor that I wanted to keep light). The floor was about 100 years old, hadn't been refinished in about 15 years, ans had some areas that seem to be like what you describe. If it really is a millimeter of damage, then the wood won't have to be replaced... it can just be sanded. The cost for me in NYC was $500, and it took one day. I had to call around to find a company that would handle the job because it was so small. Some of the large companies had a $1000 minimum. So yeah, the price seem very steep.
posted by kimdog at 6:49 AM on February 4, 2009
posted by kimdog at 6:49 AM on February 4, 2009
I'm with valkyryn. It can be done in a day if the remedy is throwing down some click-together laminate flooring.
But if the remedy is stripping and refinishing it'll be several days--and this is not a job that can be done during normal business hours if other people are working in the building. Sanding the floor is loud and extremely dusty. Water-based polyurethane is less stinky than oil-based but is still very smelly, and several coats are required.
If I were trying to do refinish a floor in a building where other people worked M-F, I think the schedule would run something like:
First weekend: Sand Saturday, clean up sawdust inside and outside room on Sunday (remember that the walls in the room will need to be washed to keep sawdust from falling into the new finish)
Second weekend: put down 3-4 coats poly on Saturday, air out all Sunday
Third weekend: put down 3-4 more coats poly Saturday, air out all Sunday
After hours the following week: replace baseboards.
So, it's not just labor and materials, it's lost rent too.
Looking at that prospect, if I were the landlord, I'd seriously consider laying down some floating flooring instead. But if Real Wood Floors are part of the aesthetics of the building, or putting some floating flooring on top will look super-cheesy compared to the rest of the building and the hallway, well, I might just charge an arm and a leg to the outgoing tenant. And be VERY CLEAR with the subsequent tenant about how to protect the floor.
posted by Sublimity at 6:53 AM on February 4, 2009
But if the remedy is stripping and refinishing it'll be several days--and this is not a job that can be done during normal business hours if other people are working in the building. Sanding the floor is loud and extremely dusty. Water-based polyurethane is less stinky than oil-based but is still very smelly, and several coats are required.
If I were trying to do refinish a floor in a building where other people worked M-F, I think the schedule would run something like:
First weekend: Sand Saturday, clean up sawdust inside and outside room on Sunday (remember that the walls in the room will need to be washed to keep sawdust from falling into the new finish)
Second weekend: put down 3-4 coats poly on Saturday, air out all Sunday
Third weekend: put down 3-4 more coats poly Saturday, air out all Sunday
After hours the following week: replace baseboards.
So, it's not just labor and materials, it's lost rent too.
Looking at that prospect, if I were the landlord, I'd seriously consider laying down some floating flooring instead. But if Real Wood Floors are part of the aesthetics of the building, or putting some floating flooring on top will look super-cheesy compared to the rest of the building and the hallway, well, I might just charge an arm and a leg to the outgoing tenant. And be VERY CLEAR with the subsequent tenant about how to protect the floor.
posted by Sublimity at 6:53 AM on February 4, 2009
the $1500 may be a little high but the question is whether you are liable at all:
If the wood is splintering it sounds like the floor itself is
a) probably not a true hardwood, maybe douglas fir
b) was suffering from being old before you moved in. softwood floors can dry out and get splintery and weak.
c) possibly at the end of it's life; you can only refinish a wood floor so many times before you start to sand through to the tongue of the tongue-and-groove...
bottom line: if it is normal use, i don't see how you are liable unless you violated special terms in the lease about care of the floor.
posted by geos at 8:21 AM on February 4, 2009
If the wood is splintering it sounds like the floor itself is
a) probably not a true hardwood, maybe douglas fir
b) was suffering from being old before you moved in. softwood floors can dry out and get splintery and weak.
c) possibly at the end of it's life; you can only refinish a wood floor so many times before you start to sand through to the tongue of the tongue-and-groove...
bottom line: if it is normal use, i don't see how you are liable unless you violated special terms in the lease about care of the floor.
posted by geos at 8:21 AM on February 4, 2009
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posted by singingfish at 2:01 AM on February 4, 2009