An American in Montreal
January 22, 2009 7:31 AM Subscribe
miss nax, an American, is interested in going to university in Montreal starting with online courses this year, and matriculating FT in fall 2010. She's asked me to help investigate (she's living in China right now, making some of the research challenging.)
What are some of the issues she'll encounter? Her French is rudimentary, but she's working on it, and will be living in France for several months next year-- can she get a job (for instance, teaching figure skating which is her current profession) without strong French language skills? Is there financial aid for foreigners? What are some questions she/we need to be asking? We live in Chicago, so the distance is not an issue.
What are some of the issues she'll encounter? Her French is rudimentary, but she's working on it, and will be living in France for several months next year-- can she get a job (for instance, teaching figure skating which is her current profession) without strong French language skills? Is there financial aid for foreigners? What are some questions she/we need to be asking? We live in Chicago, so the distance is not an issue.
Americans can get US student loans to go to school at Concordia or McGill. Scholarships are likely to be pretty difficult to come by. On the other hand, even for international students, both schools are cheap relative to their American counterparts and Montreal is still a relatively cheap place to live (especially in USD).
Off-campus jobs are going to be very difficult to come by with rudimentary French.
posted by ssg at 8:47 AM on January 22, 2009
Off-campus jobs are going to be very difficult to come by with rudimentary French.
posted by ssg at 8:47 AM on January 22, 2009
I should think that in this city, you can find a job teaching figure skating in English. Some neighbourhoods are unilingual (eg, Westmount seems 90% English), and rinks there will doubtlesss have such classes.
Financial aid is available for international students, of dependant on certain details.
I can't see any major "issues" she faces. There are thousands of non-French speaking students in Montreal, for better or for worse. Can you be more specific with your questions?
posted by Marquis at 9:28 AM on January 22, 2009
Financial aid is available for international students, of dependant on certain details.
I can't see any major "issues" she faces. There are thousands of non-French speaking students in Montreal, for better or for worse. Can you be more specific with your questions?
posted by Marquis at 9:28 AM on January 22, 2009
I have to disagree with iona somewhat. If she were moving to Quebec city, not being fluent in French would make it virtually impossible to find work. Montreal on the other hand has a huge English speaking population, and if she's looking to find work as a figure skating instructor (as opposed to in food service or retail) the lack of French fluency likely won't be that much of an issue.
The Financial Aid question is a bit trickier. Generally a precondition for granting a Student Visa is being able to show that you can afford to pay for both your tuition and cost of living for the duration of the visa. If she were able to arrange financing in the U.S. that would likely count, but AFAIK she won't be able to come to Canada and apply for Government student aid as a temporary resident (if she were looking to immigrate or coming as a refugee it would be a different story). Also, I believe you have to have an offer of acceptance from a University before you can apply for a visa, so that should be her first step (it might be a good idea to contact whichever university she's considering - I assume McGill - and get some advice from someone there)
Here's the website for Citizenship and Immigration Canada pertaining to student visas, and here's a forum about Canadian Immigration I found on google that looks pretty solid. If you get really confused, you might want to shoot an email to an immigration lawyer or immigration based non-profit in montreal, if you ask nicely they will probably give you some free advice and information. One last thing to watch out for is that there are likely some special rules that apply only in Quebec, so make sure you look at studying in Quebec specifically, as opposed to in Canada generally.
posted by mizike at 9:30 AM on January 22, 2009
The Financial Aid question is a bit trickier. Generally a precondition for granting a Student Visa is being able to show that you can afford to pay for both your tuition and cost of living for the duration of the visa. If she were able to arrange financing in the U.S. that would likely count, but AFAIK she won't be able to come to Canada and apply for Government student aid as a temporary resident (if she were looking to immigrate or coming as a refugee it would be a different story). Also, I believe you have to have an offer of acceptance from a University before you can apply for a visa, so that should be her first step (it might be a good idea to contact whichever university she's considering - I assume McGill - and get some advice from someone there)
Here's the website for Citizenship and Immigration Canada pertaining to student visas, and here's a forum about Canadian Immigration I found on google that looks pretty solid. If you get really confused, you might want to shoot an email to an immigration lawyer or immigration based non-profit in montreal, if you ask nicely they will probably give you some free advice and information. One last thing to watch out for is that there are likely some special rules that apply only in Quebec, so make sure you look at studying in Quebec specifically, as opposed to in Canada generally.
posted by mizike at 9:30 AM on January 22, 2009
Response by poster: I would love to be more specific with my questions, if I had a clue where to start. One way to look at it is, how different will this be from just going to school in a different part of the US, visa considerations aside? Will it just seem like any out of state uni?
posted by nax at 9:33 AM on January 22, 2009
posted by nax at 9:33 AM on January 22, 2009
My understanding is that off-campus jobs are pretty difficult but not impossible to come by without at least proficiency in French. However, there is a large enough anglophone community that she might well be able to earn money giving english-only private lessons in something highly specialized - like teaching figure skating. Another thing to consider is that, if she goes to McGill, there are plenty of opportunities to get English-only on-campus jobs. Not ideal, but it is an option.
posted by googly at 9:33 AM on January 22, 2009
posted by googly at 9:33 AM on January 22, 2009
I'm in the opposite situation (Canadian going to school in the US) but here's my thoughts.
Student visa/funding: I had to show that a) got into the school and b) that I had the money to go to school. Admittedly, because Canada and the US have an agreement, it's much easier to arrange than if I was from another country (i.e. no pre-entry interview).
a) I had to apply and be accepted into the program (and provide proof at the border)
b) In my case, I had a scholarship and a tuition waver for grad school. Canadian universities don't usually give tuition wavers for grad school (some exceptions U, of A. and U. of T., I think) and I don't know what sort of proof you have to show without school-based funding.
Working: I can't work off campus because my regular student visa doesn't cover this. I believe (and check the governments' websites) that as a student you are not allowed to work off campus without changing your status.
Also, Canadian universities are way cheaper than US ones, even if you include the out-of-province tuition.
posted by hydrobatidae at 10:50 AM on January 22, 2009
Student visa/funding: I had to show that a) got into the school and b) that I had the money to go to school. Admittedly, because Canada and the US have an agreement, it's much easier to arrange than if I was from another country (i.e. no pre-entry interview).
a) I had to apply and be accepted into the program (and provide proof at the border)
b) In my case, I had a scholarship and a tuition waver for grad school. Canadian universities don't usually give tuition wavers for grad school (some exceptions U, of A. and U. of T., I think) and I don't know what sort of proof you have to show without school-based funding.
Working: I can't work off campus because my regular student visa doesn't cover this. I believe (and check the governments' websites) that as a student you are not allowed to work off campus without changing your status.
Also, Canadian universities are way cheaper than US ones, even if you include the out-of-province tuition.
posted by hydrobatidae at 10:50 AM on January 22, 2009
I went to McGill, and almost all of my friends were American, many of them monolingual English-speakers. I agree that there are lots of decent and lucrative on-campus jobs where one would never be expected to speak French. The law has recently changed to allow international students to work off-campus as well, though I understand that the work permits are rather expensive.
Socially, as well, especially for students at English-speaking schools, it's quite easy to exist in an entirely anglophone social world.
Even so you, you'd have to be pretty oblivious not to feel the tensions in Montreal that attend people who don't speak French very, very fluently. I grew up speaking French as a second language, and while I've been living in Montreal I've always worked jobs where I've had to speak some French, and people can be very nasty to people who don't speak French as a first language, even if they're fairly fluent and obviously trying their best. Of course, I've also had a lot of experience with francophones being totally kind and patient with me as we negotiate in French or English or Franglais, but just a word of warning.
Either of you are very welcome to email me if you have more questions about English universities in Montreal, especially McGill, or about working on or off campus, since I've done both.
posted by ITheCosmos at 10:54 AM on January 22, 2009
Socially, as well, especially for students at English-speaking schools, it's quite easy to exist in an entirely anglophone social world.
Even so you, you'd have to be pretty oblivious not to feel the tensions in Montreal that attend people who don't speak French very, very fluently. I grew up speaking French as a second language, and while I've been living in Montreal I've always worked jobs where I've had to speak some French, and people can be very nasty to people who don't speak French as a first language, even if they're fairly fluent and obviously trying their best. Of course, I've also had a lot of experience with francophones being totally kind and patient with me as we negotiate in French or English or Franglais, but just a word of warning.
Either of you are very welcome to email me if you have more questions about English universities in Montreal, especially McGill, or about working on or off campus, since I've done both.
posted by ITheCosmos at 10:54 AM on January 22, 2009
1. If she's going to be living in France first, her French is likely to be much better than she will give herself credit for, and good enough for most service jobs.
1a. It is, as people have mentioned, very easy to live entirely in English in Montreal, especially as a student in an English university.
1b. It is also a dumb idea to do that. If you want to live entirely in English, there are many lovely cities where that is easy.
2. Most people are sympathetic to people who seem to be learning French. There are lots of jerks, yes, and the vast majority of jerkitude comes out in language issues here, but no one will stone you if you cannot think of a word.
3. A lot of this depends on why she wants to come to Montreal, what she intends to study, and which school she intends to study it at.
posted by jeather at 12:17 PM on January 22, 2009
1a. It is, as people have mentioned, very easy to live entirely in English in Montreal, especially as a student in an English university.
1b. It is also a dumb idea to do that. If you want to live entirely in English, there are many lovely cities where that is easy.
2. Most people are sympathetic to people who seem to be learning French. There are lots of jerks, yes, and the vast majority of jerkitude comes out in language issues here, but no one will stone you if you cannot think of a word.
3. A lot of this depends on why she wants to come to Montreal, what she intends to study, and which school she intends to study it at.
posted by jeather at 12:17 PM on January 22, 2009
Response by poster: Thanks for all this everyone; she's added a couple of American universities to her list, and committed to improving her French through conversation and on-line study.
posted by nax at 12:34 PM on February 21, 2009
posted by nax at 12:34 PM on February 21, 2009
This thread is closed to new comments.
I understand from friends at McGill that without strong french, this could be difficult. It depends what kind of job she's looking for though - working in the food or service industries in central Montreal will probably be difficult because you need to be pretty bilingual, and most of the local francophones speak better english than your wife (probably) speaks french, so they will tend to have an advantage. Figure skating may be different, but I would guess that she would need at least some french.
Financial aid will probably depend on what uni she's planning to attend.
posted by iona at 8:13 AM on January 22, 2009