Help me figure out TV connections

January 15, 2009 8:37 PM

I want to buy a new TV, and I don't want to change my current Directv/Tivo system. The DirecTIVO box only has s-video and standard video outputs, the TV only has HDMI and 'component' inputs. Can I connect the two without getting a worse picture than I currently get with s-video to a 12 year old tube set?

I only watch TV, and only through Tivo. I fully understand that I will not get HD, and I'm fine with that (my goals are to get a bigger picture and more space in my living room). My first question is whether I can actually connect a single RCA video output (from tivo) to one of the three jacks marked as 'component' on the TV and 'progressive' in the literature. The three jacks are colored green blue and yellow (I think), but the yellow one has a line around it and the word 'video', which makes me think the set will recognize it as a standard video signal (and not one third of a 'component' input). True? My second question is how the picture- when connected in the way I've described- will compare with my current picture. I currently send s-video to a low end 35" tube set. Are they both 480p? For what it's worth, the new set would be a 720p plasma.

posted by carterk to technology (12 comments total)

The salesman I just talked to told me that s-video provides no improvement in signal over a standard (single plug) RCA video input. I'm pretty sure that's wrong, which is why I'm ignoring everything else he told me.

Oh, and I know I could get a new satellite receiver from DirecTV, but their new models do not include Tivo. Tivo is god. I will watch no TV without Tivo. DirecTV and Tivo have announced they'll offer a new unit sometime late this year, and I just need to get by until then. Thanks MeFi!
posted by carterk at 8:42 PM on January 15

What model TV?

Agreed, DirecTV/Tivo is the best.
posted by Marky at 8:53 PM on January 15

component is not equal to s-video, it's worse. composite (single yellow plug) < s-video (YC) < component (YUC).
Generally component is green-blue-RED, so if it's a yellow with the word video, that may imply a composite input. You won't hurt anything plugging that in, (video output on TiVO to that input).

Oh, and salesmen suck. Monster cable FTW! (ugh!).

Good luck!

If you want to get the nicest signal possible, you may try upconverting S-video to component, this thread here: avsforum they are going on about it. I've personally never used something like that.
posted by defcom1 at 9:03 PM on January 15

The single RCA video jack is called composite. I haven't heard of the component (your three separate jacks) having one that doubles as a composite input but it seems at least plausible. Best thing to do would be to look up the manual for the model.

S-video is better than composite (but not as good as component or HDMI). It separates the chroma and luma signals. If the set doesn't have S-video but does have composite you can use a very cheap adapter to convert. Going composite to S-video is a more involved (and more expensive) process FWIW.

If your Tivo isn't HD then it will be sending a 480P signal to the new set. It will likely look better than the old but still won't look as nice as HD. It may not even be as big a change as you expect or hope.

Budget allowing, I'd recommend finding a 1080P set if you can. It won't help today but will allow you to get the best HD picture in the future, should you ever move to HD Tivo or Blu-Ray or whatever. If you've got no plans to ever upgrade to HD equipment then it's not necessary.
posted by 6550 at 9:06 PM on January 15

You can get an S-video to HDMI converter but they're not cheap. Similarly you may find and S-video to component converter.

In googling, I also found an S-video to component adapter cable, but I'd steer a wide berth of that thing, because it's not possible to separate the chroma signals that easily.

Really, those are the only two inputs on the TV?
posted by intermod at 9:10 PM on January 15

The old TV is a Magnavox, the new one would be a Samsung PN50A400.

So I was definitely looking at a component input (3 jacks), but it looked like a single composite rca inserted into the specified jack (yellow circle with the word 'video') would be recognized. Do such 'dual purpose' inputs exist?
posted by carterk at 9:14 PM on January 15

S-video isn't much better than composite video (single video connection, usually colored yellow).

Component video consists of three inputs -- red, green and blue (also denoted Y, Pb, Pr). You can't connect composite to one of the three component inputs. I think it would be the rare TV that doesn't have a composite video connection though, so double check that.

You won't see an improvement in picture quality. In fact, I have seen some HD TVs render standard definition content quite poorly.

Your TV is only going to look as good as your source material -- if you're not going to watch any HD material, I'd stick with the tube TV till you upgrade.
posted by Ultra Laser at 9:16 PM on January 15

The manual does not show that it has either the facilities for standard RCA (composite) video or S-Video. None of the component jacks are yellow -- they're the red/green/blue component jacks that will not accept standard RCA composite video.

In addition, this is a really big TV. The signal coming out of the TiVo is interlaced 480-line analog video -- 480i, not 480p. This means each frame of video is only the equivalent of 240p. The Samsung needs to take each two frames of video to get a full 480 lines and blow them up -- like making a small image larger in Photoshop -- to get to 720p. In addition, you're taking that 240 line per frame image and blowing it up to 50". You'll be able to see every pixel and compression artifact.

The Samsungs are wonderful TVs. But there's only so much it can do with SD. Your old TV, by only being able to show so much information and having a smaller screen was hiding how bad your TiVo looks. The Samsung will do a good job of displaying the image, but you'll soon realize just how crappy standard-definition TiVos look on a big high-resolution TV.

Given the lack of SD support, and how bad SD looks blown up to 50" on a high-resolution display, I'd recommend only buying that TV if you wanted to go with DVD or HD sources.
posted by eschatfische at 9:33 PM on January 15

The manual does not show that it has either the facilities for standard RCA (composite) video or S-Video. None of the component jacks are yellow -- they're the red/green/blue component jacks that will not accept standard RCA composite video.

I take that back! Under the "camcorder" section, the manual does say you can connect RCA composite video to the green jack of the component jacks. I'll be darned -- I should have read further.

My statement about the signal coming out of the TiVo -- which is the same resolution whether RCA or S-Video -- still stands. It won't look that hot, and will reveal lots of flaws in the image. But it does look like it'll technically work.
posted by eschatfische at 9:37 PM on January 15

Eschatfische, you rock. Thanks so much.
posted by carterk at 10:44 PM on January 15

Composite versus s-video: yeah, it's the same information. But it makes a significant difference in shaprness and saturation.

Given the lack of SD support, and how bad SD looks blown up to 50" on a high-resolution display, I'd recommend only buying that TV if you wanted to go with DVD or HD sources.

Actually, if you plug a giant TV directly into an antenna and receive broadcast analog sdtv, it looks pretty damn good. A few years ago, I got rid of cable and hooked up a decent antenna. I was SHOCKED at how much quality I was losing on the cable signal. The difference was almost as big as the difference between regular and HDTV.

Same thing with DVD- they are just SD, 480 lines. But the lack of signal loss from the master to your TV makes it seem like you are getting way more.

The bigger reason SDTV looks bad on big TVs is because compression is ugly, and SDTV on cable and satellite is compressed severely. (And now most of the so-called HD channels are compressed so much that they look like crap too. I can say a signal is a million lines by a million lines, but if I then compress it into an 8mbps stream, it's going to be a trillion pixels of ugly.)
posted by gjc at 4:14 AM on January 16

component is not equal to s-video, it's worse.

Minor (but relevant) point of correction: component is superior to s-video.
posted by ellF at 4:38 AM on January 16