No, the other left!
January 15, 2009 7:20 PM Subscribe
Need to overcome problems with opposites like right/left, before/after, above/below.
My friend is hoping to overcome his maddening behaviour of making mistakes with opposites, not just left and right. It seems to be a problem with the words, whether written or spoken. He just flips them often. We've practised with body left/right hand, direction, and things in the environment, but I wonder if there are some good tips or even learning resources that would help with this. He actually probably missed out on a job because of confusing something/nothing in a written instruction, so he now realizes he has to get a grip on this thing. He even sometimes makes up an opposite where none exists, by adding or removing a negative prefix. He's not mentally or linguistically weak; in fact he's very good in more than one language and with complex abstract subjects in computing. Just lousy with basic opposites. Your suggestions appreciated.
My friend is hoping to overcome his maddening behaviour of making mistakes with opposites, not just left and right. It seems to be a problem with the words, whether written or spoken. He just flips them often. We've practised with body left/right hand, direction, and things in the environment, but I wonder if there are some good tips or even learning resources that would help with this. He actually probably missed out on a job because of confusing something/nothing in a written instruction, so he now realizes he has to get a grip on this thing. He even sometimes makes up an opposite where none exists, by adding or removing a negative prefix. He's not mentally or linguistically weak; in fact he's very good in more than one language and with complex abstract subjects in computing. Just lousy with basic opposites. Your suggestions appreciated.
Response by poster: Junipero, he reads a tremendous amount and writes well on a keyboard. He will transpose two letters in a word if writing by hand, but not on a keyboard. He was a leftie made to use the right hand as a child, and for that reason he's struggles a bit in writing by hand. He's also lousy at hearing a word spelled and writing it down, or spelling it out himself, again, although he writes quite well.
posted by Listener at 7:57 PM on January 15, 2009
posted by Listener at 7:57 PM on January 15, 2009
I'm the same way sometimes. It's an issue of truly "listening", I think... training yourself to actually listen what someone is saying as they say it. This is contrasted with being mentally overactive and constantly predicting what someone is going to say milliseconds before they say it. I put this in the same category as cutting someone off to say I agree with them and then developing their argument before they've said more than five words. Or replying to an email within ten seconds of reading based on a scan of 50-60% of the key words, then realizing my sketch was far from complete. Or replying to this by reading the 80% of the lead and scanning 20% of the explanation.
This is a skill, that when applied methodically in certain contexts, is extremely powerful and useful. In day-to-day life, though, that superfast 90% accuracy rate can be a drag.
A leading ADD scientist once said he tells children about their ADD like this: "Here's the good news: you have a Ferrari engine for a brain! It's faster than all the other kids' brains at school! Here's the bad news: you have Kia brakes."
posted by trinarian at 8:03 PM on January 15, 2009 [2 favorites]
This is a skill, that when applied methodically in certain contexts, is extremely powerful and useful. In day-to-day life, though, that superfast 90% accuracy rate can be a drag.
A leading ADD scientist once said he tells children about their ADD like this: "Here's the good news: you have a Ferrari engine for a brain! It's faster than all the other kids' brains at school! Here's the bad news: you have Kia brakes."
posted by trinarian at 8:03 PM on January 15, 2009 [2 favorites]
I agree with trinarian, although being highly ADHD myself, I only read the first couple of sentences. Listener, I do not think it is insignificant that your friend was a leftie forced to be a rightie...my father was a victim of this odd intolerance as well, but he has never had any language manifestations as a result. not fitting in, however, is another story...
I agree that it is a "listening" issue, which sounds somewhat insensitive and along the lines of telling a depressed person to "get over it", but I do NOT mean it in that way. When I was diagnosed with ADHD I realized that I had to train myself to change my habits. I describe it as having to "concentrate on concentrating". It has been a lifelong struggle, but since i have harnessed it, it has not been so bad. It just takes training.
posted by junipero at 8:17 PM on January 15, 2009
I agree that it is a "listening" issue, which sounds somewhat insensitive and along the lines of telling a depressed person to "get over it", but I do NOT mean it in that way. When I was diagnosed with ADHD I realized that I had to train myself to change my habits. I describe it as having to "concentrate on concentrating". It has been a lifelong struggle, but since i have harnessed it, it has not been so bad. It just takes training.
posted by junipero at 8:17 PM on January 15, 2009
Response by poster: We can all improve listening, and maybe just trying to do that will help. On the something/nothing problem, he was consciously trying not to make those errors, and it was reading, not listening. I just hope there are some good practice routines out there, as he does improve on various things with repetition.
posted by Listener at 9:26 PM on January 15, 2009
posted by Listener at 9:26 PM on January 15, 2009
I do this too and it is infuriating—I'm especially bad at east/west for some reason, but never mix north/south, and I still, at 27, mentally picture which one my hands would make an L before I'm certain of which direction is left or right. (I'm just glad I speak a language with a ready-to-hand mnemonic device in it.) The east/west is a terrible problem to have when giving directions in Manhattan, especially since I always reverse it, no matter how many times I remind myself, and have more than once sent out-of-towners street after street in the wrong direction when trying to give them directions to meet me somewhere. I also consistently spell certain words wrong: I like to put a d on the end of soul, for example. Sould. What?
(I'm not even mildly ADD, or dyslexic—the worst concentration/reading problem I have is a mild to moderate internet addiction.)
So I suggest the hand letter thing; but what's worked for me with the cardinal directions is to inculcate a habit of always checking myself, since I can't seem to fix the original wobbliness. This seems as though it would work generally—at first, you try to make a habit of noticing that you're in a situation where you usually make a mistake, then that becomes automatic after a while, so when you're in that situation you realize "oh, this is one of those places I mess up!" and start to auto-correct before that thought even quite makes it to consciousness. It's a little more active than just practicing situations or fretting, and more generalizable, I think. It's almost the same as just knowing you have the problem, so this may not seem like much of a suggestion, and it has not fixed the east/west mixups—but it has fixed my directions and spelling considerably. It's like making a little space between you and what you're saying, so that you can catch yourself.
Though if he never feels secure in the proper application of them, that's different—I know which way east and west are, I just can't seem to access that knowledge when I'm just talking, or until I picture a map of where I am. But from your anecdote it seems like he does know the difference, but mixed them up. Sounds like nervousness might be a problem, too, so even though junipero was joking I think it would be good if he could be amused by it rather than frustrated.
posted by felix grundy at 10:44 PM on January 15, 2009 [1 favorite]
(I'm not even mildly ADD, or dyslexic—the worst concentration/reading problem I have is a mild to moderate internet addiction.)
So I suggest the hand letter thing; but what's worked for me with the cardinal directions is to inculcate a habit of always checking myself, since I can't seem to fix the original wobbliness. This seems as though it would work generally—at first, you try to make a habit of noticing that you're in a situation where you usually make a mistake, then that becomes automatic after a while, so when you're in that situation you realize "oh, this is one of those places I mess up!" and start to auto-correct before that thought even quite makes it to consciousness. It's a little more active than just practicing situations or fretting, and more generalizable, I think. It's almost the same as just knowing you have the problem, so this may not seem like much of a suggestion, and it has not fixed the east/west mixups—but it has fixed my directions and spelling considerably. It's like making a little space between you and what you're saying, so that you can catch yourself.
Though if he never feels secure in the proper application of them, that's different—I know which way east and west are, I just can't seem to access that knowledge when I'm just talking, or until I picture a map of where I am. But from your anecdote it seems like he does know the difference, but mixed them up. Sounds like nervousness might be a problem, too, so even though junipero was joking I think it would be good if he could be amused by it rather than frustrated.
posted by felix grundy at 10:44 PM on January 15, 2009 [1 favorite]
Sounds like it could be a form of dyslexia or learning disability, and I would look into dyslexia resources. Symptoms of dyslexia , here is an excerpt:
Most dyslexic children and adults have significant directionality confusion.
* Left-Right confusion:
o Even adults have to use whatever tricks their mother or teacher taught them to tell left from right. It never becomes rapid and automatic.
o A common saying in household with dyslexic people is, "It's on the left. The other left."
o That's why they are b-d confused. One points to the left and one points to the right.
o They will often start math problems on the wrong side, or want to carry a number the wrong way.
* Up-Down confusion:
o Some children with dyslexia are also up-down confused. They confuse b-p or d-q, n-u, and m-w.
* Confusion about directionality words:
o First-last, before-after, next-previous, over-under
o Yesterday-tomorrow (directionality in time)
* North, South, East, West confusion:
o Adults with dyslexia get lost a lot when driving around, even in cities where they've lived for many years
* Often have difficulty reading or understanding maps.
Disclosure: I have a mild learning disability, with left-right confusion, problems with spatial relations, directions, had terrible trouble learning things like tying shoes, telling time, etc.. There are all kinds and degrees of dyslexia and learning disabilities. I *still* can't tell my left from my right without seriously concentrating.
posted by gudrun at 11:25 PM on January 15, 2009
Most dyslexic children and adults have significant directionality confusion.
* Left-Right confusion:
o Even adults have to use whatever tricks their mother or teacher taught them to tell left from right. It never becomes rapid and automatic.
o A common saying in household with dyslexic people is, "It's on the left. The other left."
o That's why they are b-d confused. One points to the left and one points to the right.
o They will often start math problems on the wrong side, or want to carry a number the wrong way.
* Up-Down confusion:
o Some children with dyslexia are also up-down confused. They confuse b-p or d-q, n-u, and m-w.
* Confusion about directionality words:
o First-last, before-after, next-previous, over-under
o Yesterday-tomorrow (directionality in time)
* North, South, East, West confusion:
o Adults with dyslexia get lost a lot when driving around, even in cities where they've lived for many years
* Often have difficulty reading or understanding maps.
Disclosure: I have a mild learning disability, with left-right confusion, problems with spatial relations, directions, had terrible trouble learning things like tying shoes, telling time, etc.. There are all kinds and degrees of dyslexia and learning disabilities. I *still* can't tell my left from my right without seriously concentrating.
posted by gudrun at 11:25 PM on January 15, 2009
On preview, here are tests you can do for left-right confusion.
posted by gudrun at 11:38 PM on January 15, 2009
posted by gudrun at 11:38 PM on January 15, 2009
Same thing here. I have the problem with left and right (though not so often that it becomes a real problem), but, infuriatingly, also with words that are not abstract at all, like black and white. Or people will ask me a question (e.g. "is this a petrol or a diesel car?") and I will answer "diesel" even though I meant to say "petrol". And then I go "No! Petrol!". It makes me look like an idiot.
Only happens when talking. Never when writing/typing. I am actually an editor with a very good typo radar. I've been told it's a sign of dyslexia too, but I find this a bit at odds with my better-than-average ability to process written letters, words and numbers.
posted by Skyanth at 5:24 AM on January 16, 2009
Only happens when talking. Never when writing/typing. I am actually an editor with a very good typo radar. I've been told it's a sign of dyslexia too, but I find this a bit at odds with my better-than-average ability to process written letters, words and numbers.
posted by Skyanth at 5:24 AM on January 16, 2009
He's likely dyslexic. It can manifest in uneven ways as you've described, and the symptoms fit exactly. Thousands of adults have gone their entire lives without their dyslexia being noticed or addressed. The symptoms you've described are classic enough that, when I was a teacher, I referred kids who exhibited them for LD testing and supportive assistance.
posted by Miko at 7:23 AM on January 16, 2009
posted by Miko at 7:23 AM on January 16, 2009
Response by poster: >but, infuriatingly, also with words that are not abstract at all, like black and white. Or people will ask me a question (e.g. "is this a petrol or a diesel car?") and I will answer "diesel" even though I meant to say "petrol". And then I go "No! Petrol!". It makes me look like an idiot.
Yes, that is what he does, too, but without self-correction.
I didn't see helpful dyslexia resources for him to practice with, which is what I'm looking for. He's not a child, so all the stuff about children in classrooms, which dyslexia talk seems to focus on, is irrelevant. He was always great in classrooms, except for his handwriting. I guess he'll have to code a practice program himself, with my help in design.
posted by Listener at 8:55 AM on January 16, 2009
Yes, that is what he does, too, but without self-correction.
I didn't see helpful dyslexia resources for him to practice with, which is what I'm looking for. He's not a child, so all the stuff about children in classrooms, which dyslexia talk seems to focus on, is irrelevant. He was always great in classrooms, except for his handwriting. I guess he'll have to code a practice program himself, with my help in design.
posted by Listener at 8:55 AM on January 16, 2009
Google dyslexia + adults.
Resources and Websites for Adults with Dyslexia
10 Areas of Coping Skills for Adults with Dyslexia
Promise for helping adults with dyslexia
Adults with dyslexia can improve with phonics-based instruction
Support groups and workshops for adults with dyslexia (NY area)
Book - Dyslexia in Adults: A Practical Guide for Working and Learning
etc.
posted by Miko at 10:23 AM on January 16, 2009
Resources and Websites for Adults with Dyslexia
10 Areas of Coping Skills for Adults with Dyslexia
Promise for helping adults with dyslexia
Adults with dyslexia can improve with phonics-based instruction
Support groups and workshops for adults with dyslexia (NY area)
Book - Dyslexia in Adults: A Practical Guide for Working and Learning
etc.
posted by Miko at 10:23 AM on January 16, 2009
I had trouble in the second grade learning the difference between left and right. I nailed it down when I noticed that my left shoulder was toward the classroom window. I would look at the window and know that the shoulder on that side was my left one. Whenever I needed to find right or left, I would close my eyes and imagine how the classroom looked.
For right, I would pick up a pencil, which I did with my right hand.
posted by KRS at 10:27 AM on January 16, 2009
For right, I would pick up a pencil, which I did with my right hand.
posted by KRS at 10:27 AM on January 16, 2009
Occupational therapy can be helpful for kids with similar problems; I presume it would work for adults, as well.
posted by The corpse in the library at 1:54 PM on January 16, 2009
posted by The corpse in the library at 1:54 PM on January 16, 2009
Response by poster: Update: he got a second chance at the job and got the job. He made those reversal errors, but other people did even worse, apparently. So he will keep working on it, and thanks for the term "dyslexia" which just goes to show that one word can mean many things.
posted by Listener at 3:02 PM on February 9, 2009
posted by Listener at 3:02 PM on February 9, 2009
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Just kidding...I couldn't help myself, but I feel that I'm allowed since I am slightly dyslexic.
Does he have a history of dyslexia? Does he ever (when he is writing) leave off the first letter of a word, or switch the first letters of two words that are next to each other/
I ask because I have noticed myself doing this sort of thing more often lately, although I have never had a problem with opposites and the actual meaning of a word. Any other learning differences? Does he read well/often? And it sounds like he misinterprets meanings as opposites as well?
I have some people I can ask about this which is why I have so many questions.
posted by junipero at 7:28 PM on January 15, 2009