Brussels or Cape Town?

January 15, 2009 6:06 PM

I'm going to study abroad for four months this coming fall and I just cannot decide!

Very soon I will need to start the process of applying for studying abroad. My parents and I have narrowed down all the schools offered to two: Universite Catholique de Louvain in Brussels, Belgium or University of Cape Town in Cape Town, South Africa.

I've done the whole pro/ con list thing but I need more input and more opinions. You guys will probably bring up things I haven't even thought about. Tell me about your study abroad experiences and which city you would rather live in.

This is just such a once-in-a-lifetime chance and I really want to pick the right place. Thanks so much.

posted by jay.eye.elle.elle. to travel & transportation (25 comments total)

As much as I love Belgium for its cycling and beer, I'd have to go with South Africa, simply because it's far more different of a place from the US than Belgium is. In my own experience, going to Ireland and France opened my eyes; going to India and Egypt blew my mind. People need that, I believe, and far more than going to eat moules frites and have a Chimay.
posted by The Michael The at 6:19 PM on January 15

First of all, you lucky freak! I would choose Brussels because of the inter-Europe travel options.
posted by lottie at 6:19 PM on January 15

South Africa will expose you to more nature. Brussels will expose you to more culture. I spent a year living in Germany and was afforded the surprice chance to attend the Pope's funeral--I'll never forget it. Unless Africa or nature have some particular significance for you, I wouldn't think twice about Belgium.
posted by jefficator at 6:31 PM on January 15

I agree with The Michael The, a big part of study abroad (the part that not everybody gets but that I think is essential) is being out of your element.

Personally, what came to mind is that if I didnt visit Europe during study abroad, I would probably make it a point to visit there later in life.
Although lottie has a point, I dont think you miss out on anything if you dont or cant travel to other countries during a study abroad term. There will be PLENTY of new and wonderful things right around the corner wherever you are.
posted by nzydarkxj at 6:36 PM on January 15

How's your French? The main argument for Belgium, it seems to me, is that it would give you a chance to do real language immersion. If you made an effort not to hang out with other English-speakers, you could really improve your French, assuming that it's decent to start out with. The drawback is that if your French isn't very good or if you're lazy about it, you could easily hang out entirely with other English-speakers. Not only would your French not improve very much, but you wouldn't have much meaningful interaction with Belgian people. You would spend four months having an extensive tourist experience, without ever having much to do with Belgian culture. Many, many study abroad students do that, and it seems to me to be a wasted experience. If you aren't willing to make an effort to speak French most of the time, therefore, I'd go to South Africa. You'll still have to make an effort to hang out with locals rather than other study-abroad students, but there will be fewer language barriers to stop you from meeting South African students.

Brussels will expose you to more culture.

Brussels will expose you to different culture, not more culture.
posted by craichead at 6:45 PM on January 15 [1 favorite has favorites]

Congratulations on your decision to study abroad. Both destinations sound like good options--neither has a U.S. State Department Travel Alert or Travel Warning. I don't know what pros and cons you have already weighed, but here are a few brief pieces of advice.

If you haven't already, talk an advisor at your university's study abroad center or international office.

Make sure you consider your academic goals in making your decision. Specifically, look at how easy will it be to transfer credits back to your home institution. Is one university offering classes that will fit better into your major?

Regardless of where you decide to go, make sure that you receive an adequate pre-departure orientation. For my students who study in Italy, they take my 1-credit class the semester before they study abroad. I know not all institutions offer classes as pre-departure orientation, but your home institution should offer some sort of pre-departure orientation, even if it is general.

Finally, you might be interested in this online pre-departure orientation course from the University of the Pacific.

Best of luck to you and safe travels!
posted by snugglebunny at 7:07 PM on January 15

I'm going to respectfully disagree with numerous people and insist that a period of time in Europe should be foundational to the completion of your education. If you don't understand where *you* come from, then truly understanding *why* people are different from you will not be a significantly distinct experience from noting *that* people are different from you.

South Africa is an outpost at the tip of the world. You can take a safari. You can learn about apartheid, the Boer wars, Cecil Rhodes, colonialism, and Zulu art and history. But you won't be forced to confront the origins of precisely the lingering problems you encounter in Africa unless you firmly grasp their origins in Europe.

If you just want to drink, sleep with exciting new people, photograph yourself in front of castles, and work on your French, go to Belgium.

If you want to be slightly more interesting and always have a photo of you, a tribesman, a Jeep, and an elephant next to a hand-carved giraffe on your desk, then participate in a variant of orientalism and visit South Africa.

But if you want to *learn* something, go to Brussels with a Eurail pass and don't make friends with anyone whose native tongue is English. Don't just take pictures of the castles, either. Investigate why they were built. Then you'll enter a story that forks into Africa...which you can visit when you've begun to see through your western veil.

And take note...everyone whose telling you to go to Africa went there after they went to Europe...which I highly suggest you do.
posted by jefficator at 7:08 PM on January 15

Which school has more courses that are going to transfer to your major?
posted by k8t at 7:23 PM on January 15

It's my strong belief that no first world person's education has even begun until they leave the world commonly thought of as the "West." By all means, go to South Africa.

I might get slammed for saying this, but when I finally got around to visiting Europe, it struck me as not so different from Boston or New York. Or, hell, Texas, my beloved home state. You eat with a fork, sleep in a bed, sit in a chair, and if you know one Indo-European language you can figure out what is going on around you, more or less anywhere in Europe.

(In some ways Europe was even less interesting than Texas, where one may encounter South Asian, Vietnamese, Arabic, Spanish, Mandarin, or Korean speaking suburbs next to one another, and German, Czech, or Belgian small towns with native speakers still alive and well. But I digress).

There is a big wide beautiful world beyond European "civilization." Africa (or Asia) exposes you to ways of living and thinking that have never even occurred to you. Of course, you'd have to seek out those "othering" experiences in South Africa. But you will be a better-educated, well-rounded, well-informed adult for having done so. So consider South Africa now, and Europe later, when you can put European cultures and histories in a challenging, thought-provoking perspective.

I'm writing as one who desperately wanted to study abroad in France but ended up in Japan by chance. And I can honestly say I've never regretted looking beyond (past?) Western Europe. Eurocentric pals/colleagues in my cohort have a much narrower view of "culture" and "history" than those who pushed themselves beyond their comfort zone.
posted by vincele at 7:41 PM on January 15

Regardless of where you go:

1. Don't sleep with the natives. (Never a good idea even if he's really hot).


2. Learn the language before you depart.


3. Try to integrate yourself or you're wasting your parents' money.


4. Realize it's for a finite time and if you get lonely or homesick the whole thing will be over before you know it.


5. Make sure you understand how the country's healthcare system works, and that you are not only covered, but also know what to do if you get sick or hurt.


6. Same for their legal system. Know how it works before you get caned for pissing in the street. (Don't piss in the street.)


7. Learn the customs before you do something dumb.


8. Don't beat yourself up for making an ass out of yourself. Think of how idiotic foreigners are in your country. Congratulations, you're now like one of those people. Hope you've treated such people well in the past and hope there's such a thing as karma.


9. Challenge your comfort zone, but stay true to yourself, and don't do anything you're truly uncomfortable doing.


10. Have fun.

I have to admit I got a lot of the above from listening to snugglebunny talk about her work.
posted by cjorgensen at 7:56 PM on January 15

One less combative note: Most of the people advising you have worked with Study Abroad since before the internet was as big as it is now. There was a time when you had to seek out English newspapers and televisions programs. You're clearly net-savvy because you're here. Try not to read nytimes.com while you're wherever you go. That's my biggest regret.
posted by jefficator at 8:01 PM on January 15

I haven't been to either place. I've lived in Europe (Spain) and I spent a month in Africa (Ghana). I don't speak French or Afrikaans. I don't know more than a basic history of either nation. I'm glad I lived in Spain; I'm glad I visited Ghana. It's only four months, which (as you shall soon discover) will fly by. I was initially only going to spend four months in Spain but I ended up spending 10. Lesson: life is short, you're young, SPEND FOUR MONTHS IN BELGIUM AND THEN FOUR MONTHS IN SOUTH AFRICA. Best of both worlds and heck, when are you going to get these chances again?

And if you can only pick one, I say South Africa. And I cheerfully disagree with Jefficator - Africa is not just safaris and jeeps. I have a couple of friends who are doing master's programs in South Africa and both love the cosmopolitanism of Johannesburg as a hip, exciting big city. Both also go hiking, but neither has come across a safari adventure as romanticized in many a film.

Just my extremely ill-informed two cents! Good luck! And cjorgensen has given you a good list!
posted by cachondeo45 at 8:11 PM on January 15

I honestly think in this decision there is no wrong decision to make. I will say this, though:

People who I know that have visited South Africa were amazed because of what they saw there. People who I know that have visited Belgium were amazed because of the travels they took to other places by train. Do you want to be seeing one location or taking a lot of weekend trips?

Further, I'd like to add that I think it's easier to visit Europe later in life than to visit Africa later in life.

Regardless, bon voyage!
posted by piratebowling at 8:37 PM on January 15 [2 favorites has favorites]

Congratulations on studying abroad, it changed my life. I studied a full school year in England and, although English was spoken, it was very different from my upbringing in the US. I'm really glad I stayed for the year and I suggest you to think seriously about going anywhere for more than 4 months. It's harder (in my experience) to become friends with people in Europe than in the US and just when you're making friends or feeling at home you'll have to leave. Everyone I know who studied abroad for 1 semester wished they did the whole year.

If it was me I would want to go to Europe. I would like the easy travel around Europe and access to so many museums. I'm not sure what you're interests are so think about it.

You need to see how credits transfer, how your program syncs and if it will set you back with graduation. I had the choice of 6 schools in England and I choose the one with the best program that let me stay up datecwith my home program. One semester isn't such a big deal though.

South Africa would be cool too and a total different experience. But don't let people tell you that you'll never go otherwise. My study abroad was the first time I was out of North America and despite studying in Europe I've managed to explore tons of places including Africa, South America, Asia and Central Asia so it's possible. And if you want to immerse yourself you could always travel, join Peace Corps or work for a NGO. Mefi mail me if you need any more encouragement to travel.
posted by Bunglegirl at 9:27 PM on January 15

Another factor to consider is the season. If you're going in fall it will be spring in South Africa. Jefficator makes a good point regarding nature/culture. If you enjoy nature I would choose Cape Town - there are some beautiful places to visit nearby as well as in other parts of South Africa. I was just talking yesterday with a friend about visiting Namaqualand in bloom next spring as I've never been.

(I'm South African so I may be a little biased)
posted by Gomez_in_the_South at 10:14 PM on January 15

If you studied French, or ever want to learn, then you should choose Belgium, period. If not, both places are interesting, but Europe is well Europe, one of the world economic superpowers, while Africa will only ever impact your life by your own choice, choices like this one. So decide for yourself based upon what floats your boat.
posted by jeffburdges at 11:02 PM on January 15

This is just such a once-in-a-lifetime chance

Cape Town. Look, Belgium is cool, I give you that. And if you're studying, say, Flemish Renaissance painting, or modern binational states, or the European Union, then no question: Belgium. But South Africa has undergone so much recent change - and is changing so fast - that I think you'd be remiss to skip it. The expense of getting down there might prevent you from making this trip again soon - and the relatively low cost of living down there too! - are both reasons to give extra points to Cape Town.

And I have to agree with the commentators above regarding the value of life outside the developed world; my first trip abroad was to China, and when I heard that there were more cranes in Shanghai alone than in all of the US and Canada, and struggled to breath in scary Beijing pollution, and watched a street stall owner turn a live chicken into a plate of food in five minutes flat, I was hooked. Europe is awesome - I live here now after growing up in suburban southern California - but my year in Indonesia, and the summer I spent in Ghana, were truly the best times in my life, because they were so challenging. Full-on teary-eyed I-wanna-go-hooooooome challenging. Those moments passed, and in between I got malaria, climbed a few volcanos, found my dream career, dealt with a bunch of diseases, ate everything, and made some truly amazing friends.

The pace of life, the energy and spirit of the people, and the sheer intensity of everything would make going to class a relaxing experience. And South Africa is, surely, a much easier place to live than any of the places I've been. Cape Town.
posted by mdonley at 1:23 AM on January 16

South Africa right now is dangerous, in parts (only noting if you plan to travel around). If you are comfortable with that, and you have big city smarts, go there. It would be an incredible eye opener.

I have spent many a weekend in Brussels while I lived in the Netherlands. Yes, it's in Europe, and that's fantastic, and it's so easy to see other places, but Brussels is not the best city in Belgium let alone the best city in that part of Europe for cultural diversity, outdoor activities and the like. I actually much prefer Antwerp.

But besides that, Brussels would be easy to move to later in life. There's plenty of jobs there courtesy of the EU. But could you have the chance to go to Cape Town to live later in life? Less likely. Go there.

mdonley: I went to Shanghai last year, after visiting many other places, and was mesmerised. I studied Chinese history in my first year of university and I cannot wait to go back.
posted by wingless_angel at 2:46 AM on January 16

I think I have a unique perspective here in that ... I am her father.

I just wanted to say thanks to all of you (Especially those that suggested I foot the bill for a YEAR overseas. Yeah, thanks a lot. Thanks a ton) It's comforting to see that much of the conflicting opinions mirror much of the conflicted thoughts we've had over both these choices.

I would say that my concern hinges on getting some return for the money. I qualify that by saying I'm in full agreement that not all returns are monetary in nature. I'd be curious to hear more, from people who've had the experience, the answer to this question: Did you find the rewards of the experience itself (ie. "Boy, that really changed me as a person forever) to be more valuable as the more practical rewards (ie. "Boy, that helped me in a career that brought me joy for decades.")? Or vice versa?

To me, that seems to be the pivot point of the decision. My daughter might differ. But then again, she's smarter than me.
posted by lpsguy at 10:18 AM on January 16

I studied abroad in Europe, so to answer this:

Did you find the rewards of the experience itself (ie. "Boy, that really changed me as a person forever) to be more valuable as the more practical rewards (ie. "Boy, that helped me in a career that brought me joy for decades.")?

I would say yes, definitely the former. My study abroad experience didn't have any impact at all on my current career (which I hope will bring me joy for decades), but it absolutely transformed me as a person and made a huge impact on my life and worldview at the time.

I'm not going to address the initial question (Where should I go?) because that's an intensely personal decision, and I don't think anyone here is qualified to make it for you. Many good points have been brought up on both sides. You could always potentially apply to both programs to buy yourself some time, but ultimately I think you'll find that neither choice is wrong. Just pick one based on whichever reasons ring true to you, and don't look back or regret it.
posted by booknerd at 12:03 PM on January 16

My study abroad experience was definitely helpful from a career standpoint, but I'm not sure that my experience is relevant to the average person. I will say, though, that I think it's hard to separate the personal development aspect from the career development stuff. Studying abroad made me more flexible and self-reliant, and those things helped me in my career. I think that employers tend to assume that a person who has studied abroad has those qualities of flexibility and independence and will be more culturally sensitive than someone who hasn't. In a globalized economy, having international experience can be a big asset.
posted by craichead at 12:34 PM on January 16

Did you find the rewards of the experience itself (ie. "Boy, that really changed me as a person forever) to be more valuable as the more practical rewards (ie. "Boy, that helped me in a career that brought me joy for decades.")?

Definitely. It was all about how it changed me as a person (self reliance, problem solving, open mindedness etc.). In fact, the program I attended in the UK was much worse than my program back home and did have some catching up to do. They were very behind in the technology I needed to learn. I was also behind in my general requirements because of the way their schools are structured (art students only take art, no English, history etc.). I did still graduate in 4 years though, so no more cost to my parents! I'm not sure that it affected my career at all other than making me more confidant. That's really going to depend on your daughter's career choice.

If neither program is great for your daughter's major or doesn't have something special that is that much better than her American program or the other foreign program you'll just have to go with your gut on which looks more interesting to her.

Sorry for suggesting a full term, my American University had a deal where we paid our normal tuition so it was just a bit more for living costs since food etc. is more expensive in England. However, I think that a year investment will have a far greater ROI in character building than a few months. I would suspect that daily expenses in Belgium will be more expensive than South Africa but that shouldn't factor too highly into her decision.
posted by Bunglegirl at 1:37 PM on January 16

South Africa right now is dangerous, in parts

Not much more so than a lot of big American cities (Jo'burg would be on a par with Baltimore, if my friend's experience in the latter and my own fleeting visit to the former is anything to go by). And besides, Cape Town has a different vibe to the rest of South Africa; it's definitely more chilled.

However, the decision might just boil down to transportation: if you go to South Africa, you will need a car. In contrast, getting around Belgium (and Europe) sans-automobile is much easier.
posted by macdara at 4:41 PM on January 16

lpsguy,

I remember the moment my perspective on everything changed instantaneously. I stood in the Piazza de San Marco and looked up at the Doge's Palace, where a bas relief of a man knelt before a winged lion.

That man was the ruler of Venice. The winged lion represented St. Luke. Ostensibly the sculpture was art. But it was simultaneously religious, political and philosophical argument.

Whence does power come in the United States? Our constitution says it comes from the people. And in Venice? This sculpture was the equivalent to our founding documents. The apostolic representative bestoyed his temporal authority on the rule of the most Serene Republic. Sure custom dictated election among the noble, etc. etc. But the sense of what legitimated that election was literally carved in stone.

Such realizations occured over and over and over again. Things I thought I knew I encountered in the flesh, and I learned Western history--I mean LEARNED it--in fresh moments of insight.

I honestly cannot believe that this is being debated. Study the root of Western civilization before you look at another, similar, post-colonial branch.
posted by jefficator at 5:37 PM on January 16 [2 favorites has favorites]

Guys... I'M GOING TO CAPE TOWN!

Thank you all so much; endlessly helpful.
posted by jay.eye.elle.elle. at 4:28 PM on February 15