Comments on: Help me thread the needle.

Question: Help me thread the needle.

Powerful Religious Baby — Sun, 11 Jan 2009 17:02:45 -0800

Over the past year or two, I've noticed an increasing use of the phrase "thread the needle" in news stories and blog entries. The problem is, I don't know exactly what "thread the needle" means, and it appears in a variety of contexts that don't appear entirely consistent with each other.

Lee Huang and Robert Litan use it interchangeably with the phrase "walk a fine line." Timothy Noah, similarly, thinks it means "to skillfully navigate a difficult problem." (Many people seems to be using it interchangeably with "threading one's way"--a figurative action that differs slightly, in my mind, from the figurative action of "threading a needle.") David Welna, however, thinks it means "to get something started," and Andrew Sullivan seems to think it means "to aid understanding." This dude thinks it means "broach the subject." (I'm almost certainly misreading a few of these examples, but I think that's due to the fact that the phrase is often used in a vague or nebulous way.)

It's mentioned often in connection with politics, particularly Barack Obama. Is there any consensus about the use of this phrase, or are people hearing it, instinctively filling in their own definition, and applying it however they see fit? I'm interested.

By: craven_morhead

craven_morhead — Sun, 11 Jan 2009 17:12:20 -0800

Colloquially, #1 and #2 fit my understanding of the term.

By: citron

citron — Sun, 11 Jan 2009 17:13:23 -0800

If the origin is professional sports: if the quarterback completes a pass to a slot receiver running across the field while two or three defenders are converging, with a very, very small window in which to get the football to the receiver or else the pass is either broken up or picked off.. that is "threading the needle." takes a very skillful player to accomplish this. Ergo.. navigating a very difficult situation with a very small margin of error where.. an error is potentially disastrous.

By: troy

troy — Sun, 11 Jan 2009 17:15:56 -0800

^ yes, I came here to say what citron said

By: Powerful Religious Baby

Powerful Religious Baby — Sun, 11 Jan 2009 17:16:36 -0800

I did note a few sporty mentions; it has a similar hockey meaning as well.

By: niles

niles — Sun, 11 Jan 2009 17:26:18 -0800

Yeah, what citron said. My dad always calls it threading the needle when he makes a left hand turn through traffic that he probably should have waited on.

By: Robert Angelo

Robert Angelo — Sun, 11 Jan 2009 18:02:02 -0800

Have you never threaded a needle? It's hard to do unless you do it with one of these. So yes, #1 and #2, and what citron said.

By: Powerful Religious Baby

Powerful Religious Baby — Sun, 11 Jan 2009 18:08:43 -0800

I have, yes, and that definition makes complete sense to me. However, it doesn't seem to be the only definition people are using. I'm more interested in the usages that seem to imply "getting something started" or "finding a way to begin" because those make a lot of idiomatic sense to me as well.

By: rokusan

rokusan — Sun, 11 Jan 2009 18:15:33 -0800

I am pretty sure it does not originate in professional sports :)

#1 and especially #2 are the usual way I read it.

Sullivan's meaning is also real, at least in that it's out there and has been for many many years, but it is a different use that seems far less common. (You need to thread the needle as the first step in getting something done.)

By: rokusan

rokusan — Sun, 11 Jan 2009 18:18:37 -0800

Likely origin of Sully's use, a British children's game where everyone takes a turn.

By: troy

troy — Sun, 11 Jan 2009 18:22:16 -0800

David Welna, however, thinks it means "to get something started,"

actually I read that as successfully navigate the dangerous waters of the issue, very akin to making the pass between Scylla and Charybidis.

By: troy

troy — Sun, 11 Jan 2009 18:25:35 -0800

ie wut citron said, again

By: Powerful Religious Baby

Powerful Religious Baby — Sun, 11 Jan 2009 18:36:29 -0800

A note about that game is actually included in the dictionary definitions of "thread," yeah, and of course one of the definitions of "thread" is "to navigate through or among obstacles." "Thread the needle" is an empty entry on all the online dictionaries I've checked. Should "thread" and "thread the needle" be considered semantically indistinguishable? I feel that they're not, but I may be alone in that.

Any cites for earlier uses of Sullivan's meaning--as I read it, that is?

By: Muirwylde

Muirwylde — Sun, 11 Jan 2009 18:45:01 -0800

'Successfully navigate a treacherous, challenging or difficult passage' would be my sense of it...whether it be challenging political waters, timing a difficult space shot, evading defenders on a drive to the basketball hoop or sailing a boat through a treacherous tidal channel. The original metaphor requires skill, timing, practice and a bit of luck all with the added dimension of limited room for error. The pure sense of the metaphor is further obscured by misapplication by media sorts who lack a precise grasp of the English language.

By: Powerful Religious Baby

Powerful Religious Baby — Sun, 11 Jan 2009 19:48:15 -0800

misapplication by media sorts who lack a precise grasp of the English language

I don't know, I LIKE the unconventional usage. "Threading the needle" as a euphemism for "finding a way into a project or a problem" makes a lot of intuitive sense to me, and it shares enough overlap with the definition "making a way through a challenging passage" that it's tempting to think that's how the unconventional usage might have evolved, as a kind of associative embroidery on the concept of difficult navigation.

By: yath

yath — Sun, 11 Jan 2009 21:22:17 -0800

In your examples paragraph, only Andrew Sullivan uses the term unconventionally. I've never heard it used in the sense of beginning something. David Welna is referring to the fact that the path to a resolution to the policy of "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" is fraught with peril.

By: Powerful Religious Baby

Powerful Religious Baby — Sun, 11 Jan 2009 22:39:28 -0800

Here's another weird usage: Wal-Mart lately has demonstrated the kind of thread-the-needle consistency that General Electric used to demonstrate; the retailer has backed its guidance each of the last four quarters. That one doesn't fit in any of my categories.

Here's another "get things started" or "be of help" example: I think this is a case where if we will just take a moment, we can actually do something that is great for these companies because we have a big stick. These companies cannot get financing any place except from the federal government. And so we have an opportunity to sort of thread the needle in a very simple way and cause these companies to be successful.