MRes? MSc? MPhil? WTF?

December 29, 2008 10:50 PM

Canadian interested in UK graduate schools, but thoroughly confused by the different conventions used across the Atlantic! Please hope me!

I have a BSc in cognitive science from a Canadian university and would like to pursue graduate studies in a related field at a UK university; ultimately, I am interested having a career in research, either in academia or industry. The graduate application process is big and scary, though, and I am further intimidated by the different terminology that is used across the Atlantic.

1. From what I've read, graduate studies for both Master's and Ph.D. fit under the umbrella term of "postgraduate"; is this correct?

2. What is the typical graduate study track in the UK? In Canada, students generally complete a Bachelor's, then a Master's, then a Ph.D.; is this similar to what is typically done in the UK? I wanted to check, because I heard that in the US, students typically do not get the intermediary Master's.

3. Assuming that I need a Master's degree, which of the following is the most appropriate for continuing to a Ph.D: MRes, MSc, and MPhil? What is the distinction between them? Are some of these degrees perceived to be more prestigious than others?

4. I did pretty well on both the general and subject GRE, scoring 750 or higher on all sections. If possible, I would like to include this information somewhere on my application as the graduating average from my Bachelor's was okay, but not great (A-). Is this a good idea? If so, where would I be able to include such information? I am guessing that UK schools don't generally care about GRE scores.

Bonus. If you have recommendations for good cognitive science programs or some general tips for a Canadian expat in the UK, please send them my way!

After some Googling, I have a rough idea of what I should do (i.e., look at postgraduate research programs), but it would be great to get some clear answers from people and confirm that I am looking in the right direction. I don't really have people I can ask about this sort of thing, so I look towards the wisdom of the hivemind. Thanks in advance!

posted by tickingclock to education (5 comments total)

1. Yes.

2. That's the standard track in my experience. Often students getting AHRC/ESRC funding (in the social sciences) are required to get a research master's degree before proceeding to the PhD. I imagine it's similar in the natural sciences.

3. The names for degrees differ across universities and across disciplines. MPhils are generally research degrees, but at Cambridge (and maybe Oxford?) they can also be given for taught degrees. I imagine all of those could be appropriate. MScs are often taught degrees (and thus perhaps less relevant to you), but they can also be by research. Individual course description pages should say whether a degree is "taught" or "by research".

The best thing to do may be to look for a PhD program that fits your interests and then work backwards from there--see what type of master's they offer.

4. I think your grade average will probably be fine--UK universities don't have nearly the same grade inflation as the US (and Canada?). My impression is that you're right that UK universities generally don't care about GRE scores...they also may not know how to interpret them. Still, if you can find a place on the form to list it (perhaps as "750 out of a possible 800" or "9xth percentile"), it couldn't hurt.

They will be very interested in knowing how you intend to fund yourself. Bear in mind that most UK government funding bodies are only open to EEA citizens/residents (and even Europeans may need to have resided in the UK for some time before being eligible) and that UK universities, even the really prestigious ones, simply don't have as much money as US universities, so they aren't as generous in handing out stipends. Lab sciences do pull in grant money, though, so you may be more fortunate than other North Americans I've known who came over and starved their way through a year or two of an arts PhD on way too little funding.

One place you might want to check for seeing which departments you should approach (apart from the standard advice of looking for researchers who interest you and who you would like to work with) is the most recent RAE, a government report which ranks, if some dubiously, academic departments in terms research output. I think this page gives results relevant to you. These are, I think, the same, but the Guardian has a nicer interface if you want to browse other subject categories. Looks like Cambridge is best in "psychiatry/neuroscience/clinical psychology". If you want to go there, you really should apply for a Gates scholarship--but you are probably too late for that funding stream if you want to start next fall.
posted by col_pogo at 11:54 PM on December 29, 2008

1. From what I've read, graduate studies for both Master's and Ph.D. fit under the umbrella term of "postgraduate"; is this correct?

Yes that's true

2. What is the typical graduate study track in the UK? In Canada, students generally complete a Bachelor's, then a Master's, then a Ph.D.; is this similar to what is typically done in the UK? I wanted to check, because I heard that in the US, students typically do not get the intermediary Master's.

Some have masters, some don't. I work in a research lab with PhD students from across the globe (no Canadians though!). Some came straight from undergraduate, and some did masters. If you know what you want to do, and are qualified, and feel like you have the requisite breadth, go for it. I didn't (after my BSc in cognitive science, I did a taught masters in Philosophy, before switching tack and entering AI for my PhD).

3. Assuming that I need a Master's degree, which of the following is the most appropriate for continuing to a Ph.D: MRes, MSc, and MPhil? What is the distinction between them? Are some of these degrees perceived to be more prestigious than others?

In my institution, MRes is 100% research - no taught component; MSc will be 60-70% taught with the rest being a research project; MPhil is basically only awarded to people who've been doing a PhD but not made the standard. (It's like a failed PhD - you've spent 3-4 years researching so you've got something, but even with an extra year you're not going to get it up to PhD level, so they award you an MPhil).

4. I did pretty well on both the general and subject GRE, scoring 750 or higher on all sections. If possible, I would like to include this information somewhere on my application as the graduating average from my Bachelor's was okay, but not great (A-). Is this a good idea? If so, where would I be able to include such information? I am guessing that UK schools don't generally care about GRE scores.

PG Admissions tutors will be interested in anything that shows that you are
a) Able to speak good English
b) Have research potential
c) Able to fund yourself
They deal with people from all over the world, so if you're going to include this sort of information don't assume that people know what a GRE is!

Bonus. If you have recommendations for good cognitive science programs or some general tips for a Canadian expat in the UK, please send them my way!

Do you want to be Cognitive with a Psych, Neuro or AI bent? (It's probably easier to get funding for the latter.)

If you have your own project in mind, approach someone in the field who you'd like to work with. If you don't have a project in mind, check out jobs.ac.uk, who currently have 596 vacancies for PhD studentships. Some scholarships are only available to Europeans, as col_pogo says above, but don't let that put you off applying. We've got a couple of people from outside of Europe on those scholarships in our group - they were the best applicants, so the department pays the difference between EU & International fees (which is the main difference between EU and International scholarships).
posted by handee at 1:37 AM on December 30, 2008

2. What is the typical graduate study track in the UK? In Canada, students generally complete a Bachelor's, then a Master's, then a Ph.D.; is this similar to what is typically done in the UK? I wanted to check, because I heard that in the US, students typically do not get the intermediary Master's.

3. Assuming that I need a Master's degree, which of the following is the most appropriate for continuing to a Ph.D: MRes, MSc, and MPhil? What is the distinction between them? Are some of these degrees perceived to be more prestigious than others?

This will depend on your subject, your department, and your university. The Classics department at my undergraduate university (UK), for example, recommends an MPhil -> DPhil route for people doing Ancient History, and a MSt -> DPhil route for Language & Literature. In that instance, neither Master's is more prestigious than the other, it's just the preference of the people running the graduate programmes.

I would recommend contacting the departments to which you plan to apply to find what programmes they recommend for you.
posted by iona at 5:50 AM on December 30, 2008

4. I did pretty well on both the general and subject GRE,[...] If possible, I would like to include this information somewhere on my application[...] Is this a good idea? If so, where would I be able to include such information? I am guessing that UK schools don't generally care about GRE scores.

Some time ago I was talking to the girl who processes international masters degree applications in my department. Not only are there differing qualifications worldwide, but also different institutions have different academic standards.

Essentially the section of the application form for 'existing qualifications' is fairly free-form - there are boxes labelled 'name of qualification', 'name of course', 'name of institution', 'date of graduation', etc and you can type whatever you want into those boxes. When the girl gets your form she looks at what you've entered, and anything she doesn't recognise she can refer to the university's central bureaucracy, who have people whose job it is to check into unknown qualifications and institutions, and determine how good the qualifications are.

Judging from how often GREs come up in Ask MeFi I gather they are very common in the US and standard across the country. So even if the girl processing your application hasn't seen the qualification, the university bureaucrats whose job it is to know these things almost certainly will have.

Of course, some masters degrees run at a profit for the institution, so accepting you and failing you if you aren't capable, is just as good as refusing you admission on the grounds of your inability.
posted by Mike1024 at 7:33 AM on December 30, 2008

Do you want to be Cognitive with a Psych, Neuro or AI bent? (It's probably easier to get funding for the latter.)

My background is primarily in just the regular psych stuff. I'd like to get into more computational things in the future, but am not sure of how, exactly.

Thanks so much for the answers, everyone!
posted by tickingclock at 11:03 PM on December 30, 2008