I promise to be a better father.

December 29, 2008 4:35 PM

FamilyFilter: My family’s problems over the past 20+ years culminated into one huge fight over Christmas. I need to know where to go from here.

This may not be the venue for a problem of this magnitude, and let me start off by saying I know you are not a psychiatrist or a doctor. I’m just lost right now and feel like I don’t quite understand what I should do. I may seek professional counseling in the coming weeks. I’ll get to what happened this Christmas in a bit, but first let me set you up with some family history:

I am a very sensitive male in my mid-twenties who grew up in the Midwest. I’m married and live over 2,000 miles from my family now. My parents are still married (more on that later) and I have four siblings. I am the fourth child, so the birth order goes as follows (from oldest to youngest): Sister 1, Sister 2, Brother 1, Me, Brother 2. I mention birth order because I feel like a lot of my frustration arises out of me being the middle of three boys. My father’s side of the family has a history of severe mental illness (manic depression), and it is my opinion that my dad has had some form of mental illness throughout my entire life. This is affecting our family and may result in my parents getting divorced soon (overheard my Mom telling this to my sister this Christmas). My dad always appears to be depressed and only has negative things to say. He’s emotionally abused my Mom for as long as I can remember and it has significantly affected my personality. I’m ridden with social anxiety and have noticeable anger management problems – I’m also very self conscious. I don’t take any medication. Growing up, my biggest enemy in our family was my older brother (Brother 1). I don’t recall a single day from my childhood where he didn’t either beat me up or emotionally abuse me. Occasionally he was punished by my father, but most of the time it was he and I who were pitted against each other to see who was the “stronger” son. The beatings stopped when he left for college, but the emotional abuse continued at each and every family gathering to this day. For the record, he’s told my wife that he’s regretted the way he’s treated me over the course of my life (not that it makes it any less painful to remember) and he wishes he was a better brother.

After I moved away, I continued to come home to see my family, because I truly love spending time with my younger brother, mother, and grandparents, and a part of me wants to give everyone a second chance at having a happy family. I don’t want to be the only sibling that doesn’t come home for Christmas, etc. and I’ve been willing to go through the abuse to be able to spend time with the family members that I enjoy being around.

Now on to this Christmas. I recently stopped eating meat, and never once brought it up on my own over the course of this vacation. In my opinion, it is a controversial issue because I come from a family of hunters who live in the Midwest and obviously love meat. I tried my best to avoid talking about this subject because I have social anxiety (even around family) and just don’t like debating in anything other than a one-on-one setting. At each and every meal this Christmas, my brother or Dad brought up the issue and I tried to politely say “Can we talk about this later?” because I wanted to enjoy dinner with people that I loved. They couldn’t leave the issue alone and I felt as if I was being attacked. Later on in the evening, I confronted my older brother about the way he treated me at dinner (this was after he ‘attacked’ me at three separate meals). His excuse was he was only trying to make conversation. Words were exchanged for about five minutes (between me, Sister 2, Mom, Brother 1, Brother 2), and it ended with Brother 1 saying he never wanted to talk to me again. My dad didn’t know about the argument until the next day when he found a handwritten note from Brother 1 who took off in the night. The note basically said that he didn’t want to come home next Christmas and that he felt like he wasn’t a part of the family.

I’m frustrated because I have sympathy for my brother because he’s endured emotional and physical abuse from my dad, which is probably why he’s done it to me. I feel like my dad and my brother are poisons who suck the life out of me. My relationship with my dad turned me to a very serious drug problem about three years ago (bordering on suicidal). Now that I’m living on my own, I’m clean – but I still have to drink heavily around family, which worries me.

Basically, I just want some guidance on what I should do. Should I just cut off ties with all of my family? I only make it back to the Midwest about once a year (for 4-5 days) and, other than that, I don’t see any family members. I would feel so incredibly guilty if I had to tell my dad or brother that I didn’t want them in my life anymore because family is so important to me – but I also can’t take the pain anymore.

Like I said, counseling is in my near future, but I just need some immediate advice on the subject so I can sleep at night. I haven’t even touched the surface of our family’s problems, so if you have questions, don’t hesitate to ask.

Thanks in advance!

posted by anonymous to human relations (20 comments total)

The only comment I would make is that it is very common for people to fall back into the family systems they grew up in when they return to their families. This applies both to you and your brothers, who may have changed substantially and simply left because he had to get out.

In your shoes I would think about avoiding the family gatherings but going out of my way to meet with family members one on one. They don't need to be cut out of your life, but the family system definitely does.

Counseling will definitely help you sort this out, although in my case it took about 4 years including one during which I had no contact with my mother (at her request, as she felt I "wasn't the son she had raised.")

Life is good now, and while I still avoid family gatherings like the plague I continue to have good relations with all 6 members of my immediate family.
posted by tkolar at 4:57 PM on December 29, 2008

First of all, hugs.

Second of all, it sounds like you have been trying your damn hardest to be the grown-up in this situation -- if it helps to hear this, it sounds like you've been trying to handle everything remarkably well (I mean, you didn't do anything untoward or didn't overreact or anything like that).

The fact that you are even considering your father's and brother's emotional state is a huge, huge advantage for you -- lots of people go into therapy thinking "My brother abused me because I'm worthless" and it takes them a while just to get to the point you're at already, which is being aware that "my brother abused me because he was hurting himself".

I don't see why you should have to cut the rest of your family out just because you're having difficulty with your father and your brother. And from the sounds of it -- to be utterly cold about this, for which I apologize -- if your brother is staying away for a while, it may not be something you have to worry about anyway. But do know that nothing YOU did drove your oldest brother away, he just has his own crap to deal with, and this is how he is dealing with it right now. All you can do for him is be willing to leave the door open, if he wants to walk through it and repair things with you.

This doesn't mean be a doormat -- what you've been doing for the time being, telling him "I don't want to discuss this" if he gets to acting up, and politely but firmly telling him that if he continues treating you like that, that you will get up and leave the room, is spot-on.

Your therapist will come up with more targeted coping stuff, but for the time being, it sounds to me like you've been doing better than you think you are. And I say that even knowing that you had some drug issues (not that I make light of that by any means, but the fact that you came out of that and your head is so clear -- because you show a lot of awareness about your father and brother's state -- is remarkable).

I can't say what you will ultimately decide to do, but I can definitely tell you that you certainly seem strong enough to cope with whatever it is you decide. Good luck.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 4:57 PM on December 29, 2008

Get some counseling.

It's ok to spend less time around people who drive you crazy, even if they're family. The holidays are stressful anyway, maybe coming to visit at another would work better. Yeah, you may not be able to see everyone, but that's fine.

Get some counseling.

Are any family members computer savy? Try doing email with them, or letters if they're not computer savvy. Hell, just sending out a letter four times a year telling everyone how you're doing can help.

While what you're facing is a big deal, it's something others have gone through and survived ok. Take a breather for a bit until you build up your emotional and mental strength and gain an identity outside of your family.

Finally, get some counseling.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 5:04 PM on December 29, 2008

Sorry to hear you are going through this, I know it must be incredibly difficult, family matters often are. Seeing how similar things transpired in my family (I have twice as many siblings as you so the drama is multiplied), I think a lot of time away from your dad and Brother 1 are warranted. You probably need to cut contact with them. I truly believe that you teach people how to treat you, either directly or indirectly. Ultimately, it's not about them, it's about you and your reaction to them.

I had a very toxic (poisonous) relationship with a relative for several years and when it got to the point where I couldn't take it anymore, I shut that shit down. I decided that I was not going to engage in the bullshit anymore. I knew that this person was going to continue to behave the way that they wanted, trying to change them was a straight waste of my time. Changing their behavior is their problem, not yours. Spend time with the family members you enjoy and who truly enrich your life. There is this myth that says you have to put up with assholes in your life just because they're family. Don't believe that crap. Sometimes there are people in your life that really don't need to be.
posted by SoulOnIce at 5:07 PM on December 29, 2008

make a list - different list for each family member and then one list for the family as a whole - on the lists write what you like and don't like about your relationship with these people (again, one on one, not as dad+brother or mother+sister). under that write a list of expectations, things you need from these people to be ok with your relationship. what are you willing to put up with? what are deal breakers? after you do each individual person, do a master list for the whole family - again, what you like about family gatherings, what you don't like - and then at the end expectations for what a family gathering/involvement would look like.

when you have your lists, put them away for a week - then decide if what is on those lists is true. from there you can start deciding if what you have in front of you and what you want are actually ideas that can exist together. remember, you can only affect or change yourself. you can't make someone feel or act differently than they are. so, on your lists, what are things you can change and what do you have no power over? are the things you have no power over things that make it so you can't be happy at family dinner?

my dad gave me a piece of advice once - you have to realize that people give love in the way that they are able and that it is then up to you if you can accept love in that way. sometimes you can't. sometimes realizing that you can't control it all makes you better able to deal. whatever the answer is, it isn't a wrong or right one - it just is.

also - i've been a vegetarian for 8 or 9 years. my father and brother constantly make jokes about what i do and don't eat. they describe meat in great detail and how tasty it is. this bothered me for my first year or two of not eating meat - after that, the comments roll off my back. so what if they want to make an issue of it? i just respond in kind "mmm! early heart attacks and impotence, SIGN ME UP!!" (but! only when they start it - don't become a preachy vegetarian - i even hate those guys!)

everyone has family stuff to get over - some of us have more. from a personal place, i suggest you reframe your relationships with these people 1 on 1, not as a family unit.
posted by nadawi at 5:12 PM on December 29, 2008

Wow, you do have a very thorny path to walk. My condolences. While it seems very heavy and burdensome to have such problems, bear in mind that few, if any, families are as idylic as they appear to outsiders and so your predicament is not that unusual.

Besides seeing a therapist, I would offer two pieces of advice.

First, don't give up on your family: your mother, your sisters, anyone else that you have a good relationship with and that are important to you. Those relationships are worth fighting for.

Second, remember you cannot control anybody but yourself. Those people who are toxic to you-- your father and your brother-- cannot be given scripts to act out. They are who they are. You must change your reaction to them. Recognize that they are troubled people who have difficulties interacting and go from there. Spend the least amount of time possible with them. Listen to them but do not argue with them. Let their criticism and anger wash over you like water off a duck's back. A good way to diffuse an intense situation is to parrot back to them the words they use. Remain calm and low key so as not to add fuel for the fire, while recognizing their emotional state.

Brother: You are an idiot for not eating meat.
You: You think I am an idiot for not eating meat? (Said in a curious, not combative tone.)
Brother: I think you are a little gay boy, too
You: So you think I am gay for not eating meat?
Brother: I'm ashamed you are related to me.
You: You are ashamed of me. I'm sorry for that.
Brother: Well....You doink.

It is also a good idea to let the other person get in the last word, so that they feel they have "won."

Practice this a few times with your friends before trying it out on the difficult people. The main thing to remember is that they are toxic people, you cannot change them, you can only change your reaction to them. Good Luck.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:12 PM on December 29, 2008

My relationship with my dad turned me to a very serious drug problem about three years ago (bordering on suicidal). Now that I’m living on my own, I’m clean – but I still have to drink heavily around family, which worries me.

Check out an NA/AA/Al-Anon meeting. If not for your substance of choice then for all the other bullshit you're dealing with. You needn't speak to anyone and chances are nobody will even look at you. I'd be willing to bet a limb you'll hear someone at the meeting talk about something frighteningly similar to you're going through.

Keep it really simple and give more time to time.
posted by ezekieldas at 5:34 PM on December 29, 2008

stop going at holidays. i know this is hard and it will cause friction. a therapist will help you manage your reactions to that friction. you say you can't tell your father not to come - i suggest you either have to reframe your relationship with him so you don't desire to disinvite him, tell him you don't want him around, or keep going like you have been. it seems the third option is getting harder and harder for you. that leaves you with the first two.

who's feelings are you sparing? your mother's? your father's? or are you avoiding confrontation because that's what you've been trained to do by growing up in an abusive home? if it's your mother's - well, some blame of where you all are now rests on her shoulders - she chose security and "love" over the well being of her children. she's made that bed and now she needs to lay in it. an acceptable consequence of the choice she made to stay with him and allow him to emotionally abuse the entire family is that you don't want to keep feeding into that game. if it's your father's, well - that's taking on burdens that aren't yours to take. he made his choices in not receiving help for a mental illness and taking it out on his family instead. if he's made to feel bad for that, then so be it. if it's you avoiding confrontation...well, you seem smart enough to look at that objectively and realize that avoiding confrontation builds up and makes you act out in ways that aren't attractive to you.

abuse is a cycle - for those that don't get help (and even for some of those that do) - those who are abused grow up to abuse (like your brother) or accept abusive relationships in their adult life (like you). it's hard to break the cycle when everyone around you is satisfied to wallow in it. these times ahead of you are tough. no magic words will take that away.
posted by nadawi at 5:44 PM on December 29, 2008

I support all the "get thee to a therapist" comments, but one model of change I find useful is the "readiness/willingness" scales.

You have two Likert scales from 1-10.

Scale one is Readiness.
1 equals "not ready to change" and 10 equals "totally ready, right this minute to make a change."

Scale two is Willingness.
1 equals "not wanting to change" and 10 equals "totally willing, right this minute to make a change."

The theory goes that these two scales must both have high values to make lasting, successful changes. For example, if you're a 5 on "readiness" but a 1 on "willingness" to go to counseling, take some more time until you're, say, 8 and 8.

It sounds like you have some big decisions to make. Don't get frustrated if everything doesn't smooth out perfectly even after you've made what feels like a cathartic choice. Good luck.
posted by ShadePlant at 5:44 PM on December 29, 2008

My solution for a similarly toxic family situation was to move very far away and then stay that way for (at least) a couple of years. You've got one part of that taken care of already, making it easier to do the second part, if that sounds tempting.

Missing out on the rest of your family members seems harsh, but you have other options. Obviously, invite the ones you want to see to come to you. I paid for my niece to come stay with me for a week one summer, and another time for an old friend to have a long weekend.

If that's impossible, just visit the ones you can get along with, perhaps even one-on-one. I did this for my first non-funeral-related visit back and it worked like a charm...until I caved and visited one of the troublemakers after being pressured by someone else. Which means I'd caution you to be aware of that possibility and make a plan for avoiding or giving in should it come up. It was nice to be able to see a hand-picked list of people and places as a non-holiday vacation, too. Even with the bad moment, it still shines as a fabulous and love-filled trip.

And if that's not doable, you can always use a combination of letter-writing, phone calls, shared photo album, messaging, webcams, emails, and all that to bridge the distance and keep connections strong.

As to an actual solution...there's a lot of really good advice in here. I'd personally take something from each comment to build a complete approach capable of getting me through in the long-term and building a better me in the process. This is a damned complicated kettle of fish with a variety of possible approaches, so eating away at it from as many sides of possible seems like the best way to really solve it.
posted by batmonkey at 5:48 PM on December 29, 2008

> My wife suggested us staying at a hotel instead of at my parent's house with the other siblings

This is not a terrible idea. Depending on how power dynamics work in your family, you can make this one of those "it's not you, it's me" things and have a ready excuse and then you can not only limit the sheer number of hours you spend right up next to your family, but you also have a ready out if something suddenly goes south.

I am sorry about your holiday experience, I am glad you and your wife are able to talk about it.

> part of me wants to give everyone a second chance at having a happy family

This is not your responsibility. One fo the thigns that makes holidays so tough for many people especially those of us in the "raised by wolves" caetgory is that there's some uttainable "happy holiday" that people seem to think they're working towards. It seems like you did a really good job trying to defuse the situation with your brother hassling you in an adult fashion. It's not your faut or your responsibility that he's decided to target you for further abuse.

I don't think you need to cut anyone out of your life, but you need to figure out how you can have them in your life on something more like your terms. Think about how you WOULD like to have them in your life. Maybe for your Mom it's more one-on-one phone calls and fewer visits involving your Dad. Maybe you and your brother can try email or even something really remote but still interactive like online scrabble or something that you both share an interest in that isn't a tinderbox like family get togethers.

And I'd also look at your drinking. If you're trying to stay clean from drugs, I would be concerned [as you seem to be] about heavy drinking at family events. Just dropping in at an AA meeting might be a good way to ground yourself in not beating yourself up about htis but also moving forward in a more effective way.

And lastly, forgive yourself. It's not your fault your brother is having trouble. You're not responsible for holding the family together. Holidays are hard for everyone and people manifest that in different ways. Go back to your home with your wife and get a little together time and decompress and debrief. See how she feels, have a little open discussion about how you think it might be nice to do things next year [you can go on a holidaytime vacation someplace nice without having to cut any family members out, you're allowed time to yourself] and then put it away for a bit and see how you feel about it next month. Again, I'm sorry, bad families are no fun, but every step you take to make your own family not another bad family is work worth doing, in my opinion. Good luck.
posted by jessamyn at 6:58 PM on December 29, 2008

If you want to spend time with your mother without directly uninviting your father, make plans that he won't want to share. In my family, this is easy. I say, "Who wants to see Puppet Show and then eat at Vegetarian Restaurant?" There's usually something specific to do with one or two family members.
Also- you said you like to spend time with your younger brother especially. Could he sort of be a coping accomplice? For example, when the awfulness is starting up you two are suddenly elsewhere laughing about the funny thing that happened that time.
Another thing that I find helpful is that I sort of rehearse the awful bits. If I know that there's a good chance something I don't want to discuss will be discussed, I think about it. I don't necessarily craft some awesome zinger response, but I don't feel blindsided. I know that some people need to pick at my scabs and they are going to do it.
I think it's a good idea to try to take your family in small bites. It's a big group and you are overwhelmed. You need small chunks of time with small groups of people. And therapy.
Best of luck.
posted by classa at 7:31 PM on December 29, 2008

Excuse me, but where the hell is your wife in all of this? If anyone spoke to my husband in an abusive way in front of me, I'd be on my feet saying "I'm so sorry, we need to leave now; enjoy your dinner." To avoid hitting them with a turkey, you understand.

Regardless, it sounds like you walk into that house and become 14 years old, snapping right back into your family dynamic. Let's look at your family dinner:

You have stopped eating meat. That's fine, but it's noticeable. It's therefore a natural conversation topic at the dinner table, but you describe this as "an issue." You say you want to "talk about it later" but you actually don't; you don't want to talk about it all, and then get resentful and defensive when it's predictably brought up at the next meal again.

Do you see any particularly good coping or management strategies there? Because to be honest, I don't. I see someone who is setting themselves up to be a victim because that is what they are used to.

You're ascribing all of these problems to your family, but quite honestly, I think a huge amount of this is about your social anxiety. That's you; that isn't them. Since you can only fix you and you can never fix them, I suggest getting your ass into therapy. Work with your therapist on different strategies - since your parents visit, you have plenty of opportunities to try them out and get feedback.
posted by DarlingBri at 8:37 PM on December 29, 2008

If I were you, I would try to visit your family at a different time of the year (and maybe for a shorter period), and, for example, have your younger brother visit you during the year. Have your mom and dad (if they stay together) visit you. Your dad will obviously remain difficult, but it will be much easier dealing with your family in discrete chunks, and not always on the old turf. Pretty much everyone is tense during the holidays and it seems like a completely miserable no-win situation for you. You can't change your family's dynamic on your own, and you can't be steel to their hurtful actions no matter how much you'd like to bear with it for the larger goal of family togetherness.

You have your wife, and therefore, your own family now. You two should spend your Christmases together, blissfully alone, building your own home traditions and creating a happy, soothing holiday. Stay in touch with all your brothers and sisters via email and phone, invite them independently (except your mom and dad, because it would be cruel to tell your dad not to come) to spend time with you, go visit there when the atmosphere is less fraught. But don't submit yourself to another one of these miserable Christmas visits. Life is too short. You can turn around the whole holiday paradigm together with your wife, beginning now and be able to provide your own kids (if/when you have any) to a totally different experience.

That would be my strong, strong suggestion. And for building up heart and putting some balm on the fresh wounds, I would start making plans right now for next year's wonderful, relaxed, just-us-two stay-at-home Christmas. And have a beautiful New Year. You deserve it.
posted by taz at 10:53 PM on December 29, 2008

Are you suggesting that I become less socially anxious so next time I can better deal with potential criticism from my dad/brother in front of others?

I think you think you're being facetious here, but this exactly what I think she means.

Therapy will give you tools to help/change yourself, but you can't change others. You can only change your reaction to them. You will get a lot more mileage out of attempting to work toward positive change in your own life than you will out of figuring out whose to blame (ie: I believe that my social anxiety arose from...).
posted by lilnublet at 11:20 PM on December 29, 2008

For the record, he’s told my wife that he’s regretted the way he’s treated me over the course of my life (not that it makes it any less painful to remember) and he wishes he was a better brother...he found a handwritten note from Brother 1 who took off in the night. The note basically said that he didn’t want to come home next Christmas and that he felt like he wasn’t a part of the family.

It it possible this is your brother's attempt to escape the toxic family environment? An excuse that's fallen into his lap.

In your position I think I'd simply start going to my wife's family Christmases and arranging to catch up with the siblings and parent I wanted to see on other occasions, preferably informal ones.
posted by rodgerd at 11:33 PM on December 29, 2008

Also, to those suggesting that I limit my exposure to my father and older brother, I need a little more advice. How do you limit exposure over the holidays when everyone's together? (My wife suggested us staying at a hotel instead of at my parent's house with the other siblings)

Your wife is very wise.

It will make a world of difference.
posted by tkolar at 2:29 AM on December 30, 2008

Are you suggesting that I become less socially anxious so next time I can better deal with potential criticism from my dad/brother in front of others?

Yes.

Trying not to get defensive here, but I don't see how it is at all my wife's responsibility to deal with my family's problems.

Your wife is your family. She is in fact your primary family, and the two of you are your own family unit. It is, within the conventions of most marriages, part of her responsibility to help shoulder the burden of your problems. Your family of origin is one of your problems - and from your description, a severely debilitating one.

On a purely practical level, a team approach in the situations you've described can be very useful. Your family is less likely to foist an entire history of role expectations on her, and probably slightly more polite to her. As a third party to the family drama, she's ideally positioned to deflect, distract and re-direct. It's an excellent tactic.

Yes, she married into it, but I would never expect her to act so rude - especially at one of the two meals I have with my family every year.

Actually, the statement I outlined is exceedingly polite. "Rude" is the continuing abuse you feel subjected to. Again, as several people have now said, you can change nothing but your responses to this situation. Getting up and refusing to be treated as a doormat is a change of response. Sitting there and taking it to is not. That tactic hasn't worked out for you very well; try another.

Look, cutting off family contact would be the most obvious thing here except you've said you don't want to because you are close to your mother. If no contact isn't an option, something else has to change. A therapist can help you identify the changes you can make, but I'm going to guess that learning to draw healthy boundaries and act within them is one such change you'll be looking at. Getting up and politely leaving? Is a healthy boundary.
posted by DarlingBri at 2:43 AM on December 30, 2008

Should I just cut off ties with all of my family?
Yes. Get yourself well then slowly let the good people back in. Forget about going home for the holidays. Go to your wifes family instead, or stay home and start your own holiday traditions.
You don't need to go back to the madness. You can be free of it. In fact, you deserve to be free of it. Why? Why not? That kind of dysfunctional behavior repeats itself time and time again. The first step to is to stop enabling it by returning to it.
The holidays are supposed to bring people together not drive them apart. If there is so much chaos in a holiday gathering and it impacts on you so much, don't be a part of it. Send a card.
posted by a3matrix at 6:08 AM on December 30, 2008

start your own holiday traditions

Do this with your wife.

Invite your family back into your life when you have the tools to protect yourself. You can still maintain contact with your Mom and younger brother, and perhaps have them visit you from time to time.
posted by hellboundforcheddar at 6:58 AM on December 30, 2008