Stuck On An Ambiguous Barrel
December 16, 2008 6:34 AM Subscribe
How do I say "no, unless..." to my boss's boss?
A tiny bit of background: The company I work for is medium sized (several hundreds, maybe a couple thousand employees) but broken down into autonomous groups. It's a research place, so we have some of the positives of economies of scale but also some of the positives of small tech startups. My own group is about 100 people in 4 layers from "CEO" (group leader) to "staff" (software worker bees like myself). Actually, while my official level is "software bee" I'm the only software person working on a fairly large, fairly high profile project. So I'm a bee, but not a monkey.
I'm also a contractor. The place has great benefits (both financial and social, such as being able to use on-campus stuff) but only for regular employees. When I was hired, 4.5 years ago, I was told that sometimes people get "converted" to a regular employee and though I was never promised anything I did hold out hope. Occasionally I made noises to my boss (B) who brought it up with his superiors (he has no power to make those decisions).
About a year ago I decided to bring it up with the next level myself. (Our small size made this not a faux pas (I think).) My boss's boss (BB) was very...."encouraging" isn't quite the right word because it connotes that he encouraged me when it was really the things he did that made me feel encouraged. For instance, when I emailed him he wanted to talk right away and didn't put me off. He needed some information and set a date only a few days in the future for me to provide it, which I did. I walked away from that experience feeling like my "conversion" was imminent.
6 months later, I asked again what was up with it. He told me not to lose hope, it wasn't a dead request.
Today, I got instructions from BB to do a 15 minute presentation in front of the 100 person group. My first instinct is to say "Sure I'll do this extra work that I really, really hate...once I get the full benefits that any regular employee gets." But I don't want to burn bridges by starting a fight. And BB is a genuinely nice guy who may even have my interests in mind by doing this.
The reason it might be in my best interests to give the presentation: I told B this morning that "I don't think it's fair to ask me to do extra work when I'm not getting full, let alone extra, benefits." According to B, giving occasional briefings is something the company considers regular staff should be able to do. So perhaps BB is standing me up in front of everyone to bolster his case that I should be "converted". Then again, B told me this same thing last time I was asked to give a talk. BB has never said anything like this, at least that I remember.
So basically, the question is this: How do I break the news to BB that I am angry and frustrated without being angry and frustrated? I don't want blow this up into an "I'll quit if you don't convert me" thing. I just want to express the fact that I feel like I'm being taken advantage of, but without implying that HE is taking advantage of me, if you see the distinction.
A tiny bit of background: The company I work for is medium sized (several hundreds, maybe a couple thousand employees) but broken down into autonomous groups. It's a research place, so we have some of the positives of economies of scale but also some of the positives of small tech startups. My own group is about 100 people in 4 layers from "CEO" (group leader) to "staff" (software worker bees like myself). Actually, while my official level is "software bee" I'm the only software person working on a fairly large, fairly high profile project. So I'm a bee, but not a monkey.
I'm also a contractor. The place has great benefits (both financial and social, such as being able to use on-campus stuff) but only for regular employees. When I was hired, 4.5 years ago, I was told that sometimes people get "converted" to a regular employee and though I was never promised anything I did hold out hope. Occasionally I made noises to my boss (B) who brought it up with his superiors (he has no power to make those decisions).
About a year ago I decided to bring it up with the next level myself. (Our small size made this not a faux pas (I think).) My boss's boss (BB) was very...."encouraging" isn't quite the right word because it connotes that he encouraged me when it was really the things he did that made me feel encouraged. For instance, when I emailed him he wanted to talk right away and didn't put me off. He needed some information and set a date only a few days in the future for me to provide it, which I did. I walked away from that experience feeling like my "conversion" was imminent.
6 months later, I asked again what was up with it. He told me not to lose hope, it wasn't a dead request.
Today, I got instructions from BB to do a 15 minute presentation in front of the 100 person group. My first instinct is to say "Sure I'll do this extra work that I really, really hate...once I get the full benefits that any regular employee gets." But I don't want to burn bridges by starting a fight. And BB is a genuinely nice guy who may even have my interests in mind by doing this.
The reason it might be in my best interests to give the presentation: I told B this morning that "I don't think it's fair to ask me to do extra work when I'm not getting full, let alone extra, benefits." According to B, giving occasional briefings is something the company considers regular staff should be able to do. So perhaps BB is standing me up in front of everyone to bolster his case that I should be "converted". Then again, B told me this same thing last time I was asked to give a talk. BB has never said anything like this, at least that I remember.
So basically, the question is this: How do I break the news to BB that I am angry and frustrated without being angry and frustrated? I don't want blow this up into an "I'll quit if you don't convert me" thing. I just want to express the fact that I feel like I'm being taken advantage of, but without implying that HE is taking advantage of me, if you see the distinction.
(In other words, treat him as if he's on your side whether he really is or not. It's sort of irrelevant to how you should treat him anyway. But then talk to him and follow up always on the assumption he's on your side and see where that goes. You'll know soon enough if you're wanted without needing to provoke a standoff.)
posted by rokusan at 6:55 AM on December 16, 2008
posted by rokusan at 6:55 AM on December 16, 2008
Seriously, I am surprised that anybody would be confrontational with their boss when they are a contractor in this economy. Now is the time to eat bitterness, not to be insubordinate (which is what disobeying a boss's order or placing conditions on it really is).
The thing to do is document from the audience how awesome your presentation was, and bring this situation up in your next annual review, when it's called for.
posted by By The Grace of God at 6:59 AM on December 16, 2008 [1 favorite]
The thing to do is document from the audience how awesome your presentation was, and bring this situation up in your next annual review, when it's called for.
posted by By The Grace of God at 6:59 AM on December 16, 2008 [1 favorite]
Well one thing you have to keep in mind is that almost every job has that "Other duties as assigned" section of the job description which basically curtails your ability to say "I don't have to do that." I don't think it's in your best interest to try and use a request by your BB as leverage. They have the right to relieve you of employment at will regardless of circumstances and it's not exactly the greatest economy to be playing with fire in that area.
That being said, the BB sounds like the kind of person you truly could vent to. As long as it's not venting AT him I don't see why you couldn't say "Look, I'm happy to step up to the plate when you all need me and do things like this presentation, but it's frustrating to be asked to do the responsibilities of a full time employee without the benefits of one. Where does my request stand and what can I hope to find out in the short term." If you're feeling particular pressure and you think he's going to blow it off, you might throw in a "I really enjoy working here and find this environment to be a lovely place to work, but at this point if I don't see a future that involves full benefits for my position I might have to start considering the possibility that this isn't the place for me." It's not a full on "I'll quit I tell ya!" but it does say "Take me seriously." Just keep in mind that you truly do have to be ready to walk away if they say no. If you're not, well you have no leverage to make any demands and therefore can't really expect much of them.
posted by genial at 7:00 AM on December 16, 2008
That being said, the BB sounds like the kind of person you truly could vent to. As long as it's not venting AT him I don't see why you couldn't say "Look, I'm happy to step up to the plate when you all need me and do things like this presentation, but it's frustrating to be asked to do the responsibilities of a full time employee without the benefits of one. Where does my request stand and what can I hope to find out in the short term." If you're feeling particular pressure and you think he's going to blow it off, you might throw in a "I really enjoy working here and find this environment to be a lovely place to work, but at this point if I don't see a future that involves full benefits for my position I might have to start considering the possibility that this isn't the place for me." It's not a full on "I'll quit I tell ya!" but it does say "Take me seriously." Just keep in mind that you truly do have to be ready to walk away if they say no. If you're not, well you have no leverage to make any demands and therefore can't really expect much of them.
posted by genial at 7:00 AM on December 16, 2008
I agrtee that the presentation would be the wrong issue to make pivotal - BB may well see it as an opportunity for you, even if not directly related to your conversion. No harm in asking about the prospects for conversion in a non-angry way just after discussing the presentation. I'd try to do the presentation cheerfully and then ask again.
Is there some background issue that they haven't told you about? Have they never had a 'software bee' on the regular staff? Does it have pay or management implications they don't want to address? Are they worried they'd have to offer conversion to other people less desirable than you but who've been around a long time? You might not be able to anything about it, but if there are issues of that kind lurking in the background it might help to get them in the open. I'd ask straight out, in a non-confrontational way.
Can you get other decent jobs easily? If you had a reasonable offer from a rival employer in your hand, you'd be in a position to inject more urgency into these discussions, even if you have no real plan to leave. You still wouldn't approach it in an angry way, more asking for advice because you don't really want to take this offer but the terms are attractive, blah. Of course there's the small risk that BB says 'Gosh, DU, I'd love to keep you, but in all honesty you ought to take that offer in your own interest'.
If nothing else, I'd ask about the conversion as regularly as is reasonable until they either sort it out or give you a definite 'no'.
posted by Phanx at 7:02 AM on December 16, 2008
Is there some background issue that they haven't told you about? Have they never had a 'software bee' on the regular staff? Does it have pay or management implications they don't want to address? Are they worried they'd have to offer conversion to other people less desirable than you but who've been around a long time? You might not be able to anything about it, but if there are issues of that kind lurking in the background it might help to get them in the open. I'd ask straight out, in a non-confrontational way.
Can you get other decent jobs easily? If you had a reasonable offer from a rival employer in your hand, you'd be in a position to inject more urgency into these discussions, even if you have no real plan to leave. You still wouldn't approach it in an angry way, more asking for advice because you don't really want to take this offer but the terms are attractive, blah. Of course there's the small risk that BB says 'Gosh, DU, I'd love to keep you, but in all honesty you ought to take that offer in your own interest'.
If nothing else, I'd ask about the conversion as regularly as is reasonable until they either sort it out or give you a definite 'no'.
posted by Phanx at 7:02 AM on December 16, 2008
I got instructions from BB to do a 15 minute presentation in front of the 100 person group.
I'm not sure if it's different where you work, but where I work as a software developer this would not be seen as a big enough deal to be worth renegotiating someone's contract. Having to do a random presentation, or go on a random business trip is pretty much par for the course. If it was a permanent change of responsibilities or job description things would be different, but it sounds like this is just a one-off presentation.
Do you have an annual performance review? That's normally the time when you can play hardball. If you have a list of above and beyond tasks that you've done over the year, you can use that as leverage to request things like a guaranteed transition from contractor to normal employee.
posted by burnmp3s at 7:04 AM on December 16, 2008
I'm not sure if it's different where you work, but where I work as a software developer this would not be seen as a big enough deal to be worth renegotiating someone's contract. Having to do a random presentation, or go on a random business trip is pretty much par for the course. If it was a permanent change of responsibilities or job description things would be different, but it sounds like this is just a one-off presentation.
Do you have an annual performance review? That's normally the time when you can play hardball. If you have a list of above and beyond tasks that you've done over the year, you can use that as leverage to request things like a guaranteed transition from contractor to normal employee.
posted by burnmp3s at 7:04 AM on December 16, 2008
Response by poster: Well exactly--the reason I'm posting this question is because I know being confrontational would be bad, not just with the job situation as it is, but in general.
It isn't so much that I want to use this as leverage (although I now realize that's what my "first instinct" sounded like). It's that I want to point out that I'm being expected to go above and beyond (what a contractor is expected to do, anyway) but I'm not getting the same treatment myself.
"Look, I'm happy to step up to the plate when you all need me and do things like this presentation, but it's frustrating to be asked to do the responsibilities of a full time employee without the benefits of one. Where does my request stand and what can I hope to find out in the short term."
A shorter version of this is basically what I said to B. Although I brought up fairness rather than frustration. Maybe I should do it your way instead to avoid accusations.
posted by DU at 7:06 AM on December 16, 2008
It isn't so much that I want to use this as leverage (although I now realize that's what my "first instinct" sounded like). It's that I want to point out that I'm being expected to go above and beyond (what a contractor is expected to do, anyway) but I'm not getting the same treatment myself.
"Look, I'm happy to step up to the plate when you all need me and do things like this presentation, but it's frustrating to be asked to do the responsibilities of a full time employee without the benefits of one. Where does my request stand and what can I hope to find out in the short term."
A shorter version of this is basically what I said to B. Although I brought up fairness rather than frustration. Maybe I should do it your way instead to avoid accusations.
posted by DU at 7:06 AM on December 16, 2008
By the way, if you do what genial does the thing to do is HAVE A JOB OFFER IN HAND.
posted by By The Grace of God at 7:09 AM on December 16, 2008
posted by By The Grace of God at 7:09 AM on December 16, 2008
Please listen to rokusan.
Best case, this presentation is a shot to get what you want. Worst case, you're somehow being taken advantage of (I'm not sure how a presentation is a big enough imposition to go to your BB, but I get that you are frustrated in general), but if you don't have another job in hand why would you want to mess up this one?
I say do the presentation, kick ass, and if you don't get converted then talk to BB like rokusan said. In the meantime, decide if this is where you want to work, if nothing changes. If it is not, then start looking, but do a good job and remain a good employee while you look.
posted by KAS at 7:16 AM on December 16, 2008
Best case, this presentation is a shot to get what you want. Worst case, you're somehow being taken advantage of (I'm not sure how a presentation is a big enough imposition to go to your BB, but I get that you are frustrated in general), but if you don't have another job in hand why would you want to mess up this one?
I say do the presentation, kick ass, and if you don't get converted then talk to BB like rokusan said. In the meantime, decide if this is where you want to work, if nothing changes. If it is not, then start looking, but do a good job and remain a good employee while you look.
posted by KAS at 7:16 AM on December 16, 2008
A 15 minute presentation with adequate time for preparation? I'd expect that of most staff. Certainly, I'd expect it of someone with several years of experience with the firm.
If someone on my team sent me a "no unless we renegotiate my terms" email, I'd be looking for a replacement. Honestly, why would I hire someone who tanks work whenever they pout. As an employee I'm stuck with you; as a contractor it much easier to hand you a box.
It sounds to me as though you haven't done your research. What are the current guidelines for contractor conversion? In this economy, many companies are not converting. You were told "sometimes" people get converted. How often? At what point in their tenure? What made those candidates attractive? What is the maximum contractor duration? Many companies have limits on how long contractors can stay. We either need to convert you or send you packing.
posted by 26.2 at 7:18 AM on December 16, 2008 [1 favorite]
If someone on my team sent me a "no unless we renegotiate my terms" email, I'd be looking for a replacement. Honestly, why would I hire someone who tanks work whenever they pout. As an employee I'm stuck with you; as a contractor it much easier to hand you a box.
It sounds to me as though you haven't done your research. What are the current guidelines for contractor conversion? In this economy, many companies are not converting. You were told "sometimes" people get converted. How often? At what point in their tenure? What made those candidates attractive? What is the maximum contractor duration? Many companies have limits on how long contractors can stay. We either need to convert you or send you packing.
posted by 26.2 at 7:18 AM on December 16, 2008 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: ...no unless we renegotiate my terms...
...not be seen as a big enough deal to be worth renegotiating someone's contract...
I definitely wrote this AskMe wrong. I did not mean to imply that the thought of conversion never entered my head until this OMGIMPOSITIONAL thing came along and then I DEMAND RECOMPENSE.
I'm just saying that I feel like I'm being led down the garden path. "Sure sure, your conversion is in the works...could you do this presentation? *a year passes* We're definitely working on that conversion....could you do another presentation?" Not that my presentations are so awesome that they'd be worth a conspiracy to eke one more of them out of me.
I'm thinking of a "normal" relationship type equivalent. You ask your friend for a favor a few times, but he's never able to do it. Then he asks you to help him move. You do it. You ask for a couple more favors--unavailable. Then he's moving again. What do you do? I think I would at least bring up the fact that this seems to be a one-way friendship.
posted by DU at 7:30 AM on December 16, 2008
...not be seen as a big enough deal to be worth renegotiating someone's contract...
I definitely wrote this AskMe wrong. I did not mean to imply that the thought of conversion never entered my head until this OMGIMPOSITIONAL thing came along and then I DEMAND RECOMPENSE.
I'm just saying that I feel like I'm being led down the garden path. "Sure sure, your conversion is in the works...could you do this presentation? *a year passes* We're definitely working on that conversion....could you do another presentation?" Not that my presentations are so awesome that they'd be worth a conspiracy to eke one more of them out of me.
I'm thinking of a "normal" relationship type equivalent. You ask your friend for a favor a few times, but he's never able to do it. Then he asks you to help him move. You do it. You ask for a couple more favors--unavailable. Then he's moving again. What do you do? I think I would at least bring up the fact that this seems to be a one-way friendship.
posted by DU at 7:30 AM on December 16, 2008
BB may well see it as an opportunity for you
I agree wholeheartedly, and even if it does not lead to conversion, it's still the kind of work that you would be expected to do in future opportunities. I think the defacto rule is typically expanded responsibilities before expanded benefits.
posted by mrmojoflying at 7:32 AM on December 16, 2008
I agree wholeheartedly, and even if it does not lead to conversion, it's still the kind of work that you would be expected to do in future opportunities. I think the defacto rule is typically expanded responsibilities before expanded benefits.
posted by mrmojoflying at 7:32 AM on December 16, 2008
Response by poster: (I was going to remark on the don't-rock-the-boat-unreciprocated-employer-requests-are-always-reasonable tone of many of these responses, but actually that viewpoint is helpful since it's probably also what my coworkers and bosses are also thinking.)
posted by DU at 7:33 AM on December 16, 2008
posted by DU at 7:33 AM on December 16, 2008
Reciprocation is important, but it's also important to realize the tensions your employer is probably under, which is maximizing your productivity while at the same time providing you with the opportunities you need to grow as an employee. Advocate for yourself, but do so in a way that recognizes and respects this tension.
posted by mrmojoflying at 7:36 AM on December 16, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by mrmojoflying at 7:36 AM on December 16, 2008 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: s/many/a few/
I'm all stressed out by a) this issue and b) really, really hating public speaking.
posted by DU at 7:38 AM on December 16, 2008
I'm all stressed out by a) this issue and b) really, really hating public speaking.
posted by DU at 7:38 AM on December 16, 2008
I'm thinking of a "normal" relationship type equivalent. You ask your friend for a favor a few times, but he's never able to do it. Then he asks you to help him move. You do it. You ask for a couple more favors--unavailable. Then he's moving again. What do you do? I think I would at least bring up the fact that this seems to be a one-way friendship.
This isn't one-way, though. Their reciprocation is that they're paying you. The pay might not be what you consider a 1:1 ratio between money and job expectations, but they're paying you nonetheless.
I've been in a similar situation (not with the exact same job type, though) and done what many people are saying here: I kick ass as what they ask me to do then bring up how successful I was at the task afterwards and ask if it could have had any effect on clearing the logjam that seems to be blocking my conversion.
posted by sjuhawk31 at 7:46 AM on December 16, 2008
This isn't one-way, though. Their reciprocation is that they're paying you. The pay might not be what you consider a 1:1 ratio between money and job expectations, but they're paying you nonetheless.
I've been in a similar situation (not with the exact same job type, though) and done what many people are saying here: I kick ass as what they ask me to do then bring up how successful I was at the task afterwards and ask if it could have had any effect on clearing the logjam that seems to be blocking my conversion.
posted by sjuhawk31 at 7:46 AM on December 16, 2008
4.5 years and you're still a contractor? The other aspects of your situation make it sound like you might be an employee whether they want you to be or not. If you're happy overall, don't rock the boat, but you might consider whether or not you would be better off at a place that treats employees like employees and gives them benefits, lets them use the gym, etc.
posted by iknowizbirfmark at 8:08 AM on December 16, 2008
posted by iknowizbirfmark at 8:08 AM on December 16, 2008
Consider it an audition. Show how staff-like you are.
The worst case scenario is that yes, they are talking advantage of you, but you have a steady job until you find one that suits you better.
posted by desuetude at 8:17 AM on December 16, 2008 [1 favorite]
The worst case scenario is that yes, they are talking advantage of you, but you have a steady job until you find one that suits you better.
posted by desuetude at 8:17 AM on December 16, 2008 [1 favorite]
The way to change your job status is to show the boss' boss why it would benefit him & the company to have you on board full time.
posted by Mom at 8:35 AM on December 16, 2008
posted by Mom at 8:35 AM on December 16, 2008
Response by poster: In case there's anyone out there biting their fingernails that I'm about to doom my kids to starvation: BB just stopped by and I didn't even mention conversion. I also complimented him on his help reviewing my presentation last time (which was genuinely helpful, but it still felt a little obsequious, if that word means what I think it means).
posted by DU at 9:07 AM on December 16, 2008
posted by DU at 9:07 AM on December 16, 2008
you have been brought in to do a job, you have proven yourself able at it, you have gotten more responsibility, now you're being tasked with doing a special project. this is a time to outswiss the swiss. shine! make this their best presentation ever. go to lengths they didn't expect. impress the living hell out of them.
if everything goes right you should be approached with kind comments, be it from your boss or bosses boss. every manager knows it's wise to give feedback. that is your moment to strike. when the right person approached you with positive feedback smile, say thank you and mention that you are putting everything into this because you really like working here and would love to become a permanent employee. you could phrase the last part differently as well, because you hope your effort will lead to growth opportunities with them or whatever sounds good to you. just don't outright tell them what to do in order to make you happy, don't ask are you going to make me permanent now? you already did that once.
the reason I suggest you act this way is that you do not know why they haven't made you a permanent employee already. perhaps there is a budget shortfall or a hiring freeze or someone else is ahead of you in line or they need to have you do things first in order to be able to check requirements for a full-time position off a list. you don't know everything about the managerial decisions of a company, you never do. what you do know is that they are happy with your work, that they know what you want and that for some unknown reason they haven't been able to comply thus far. a threat wouldn't change whatever the reason is but positive performance may give them the ammo they need in order to justify making this happen.
never forget that the people you work for and with value their dignity. nobody likes to be pushed into a corner, which is why threats never really work in the long run. everyone likes someone who makes them look and feel good. that's what you're doing by outdoing your peers with this presentation. a smart manager will want as many employees with the ability to make them look good on their team as possible, which makes this the best way for you to go.
unless of course you have nekkid pictures of your bosses boss with a mountain goat and lots of KY. that's the corporate equivalent of a royal flush.
posted by krautland at 9:41 AM on December 16, 2008
if everything goes right you should be approached with kind comments, be it from your boss or bosses boss. every manager knows it's wise to give feedback. that is your moment to strike. when the right person approached you with positive feedback smile, say thank you and mention that you are putting everything into this because you really like working here and would love to become a permanent employee. you could phrase the last part differently as well, because you hope your effort will lead to growth opportunities with them or whatever sounds good to you. just don't outright tell them what to do in order to make you happy, don't ask are you going to make me permanent now? you already did that once.
the reason I suggest you act this way is that you do not know why they haven't made you a permanent employee already. perhaps there is a budget shortfall or a hiring freeze or someone else is ahead of you in line or they need to have you do things first in order to be able to check requirements for a full-time position off a list. you don't know everything about the managerial decisions of a company, you never do. what you do know is that they are happy with your work, that they know what you want and that for some unknown reason they haven't been able to comply thus far. a threat wouldn't change whatever the reason is but positive performance may give them the ammo they need in order to justify making this happen.
never forget that the people you work for and with value their dignity. nobody likes to be pushed into a corner, which is why threats never really work in the long run. everyone likes someone who makes them look and feel good. that's what you're doing by outdoing your peers with this presentation. a smart manager will want as many employees with the ability to make them look good on their team as possible, which makes this the best way for you to go.
unless of course you have nekkid pictures of your bosses boss with a mountain goat and lots of KY. that's the corporate equivalent of a royal flush.
posted by krautland at 9:41 AM on December 16, 2008
4.5 years is a long time, but do the presentation. If you want to be in a negotiating position, start looking for jobs *after* the presentation. Send another hint at conversion at this time and if nobody responds, then you skate.
posted by rhizome at 9:41 AM on December 16, 2008
posted by rhizome at 9:41 AM on December 16, 2008
on hating public speaking: write down your speech on cue cards. short sentences. avoid the comma and the word but*. film yourself and watch the tape. look for what sounded good, where you rushed. make star and plus sign notes for where to pause and where to look up at your audience. stand still. do three video runs in your living room and you will nail it. it's just a matter of preparation.
*that's something I took from bloomberg. they banned the use of the word but in order to not have confusing arguments that required any interpretation in their stories. npr's on the media had a story on it last week that I'm sure you can find online.
posted by krautland at 9:47 AM on December 16, 2008
*that's something I took from bloomberg. they banned the use of the word but in order to not have confusing arguments that required any interpretation in their stories. npr's on the media had a story on it last week that I'm sure you can find online.
posted by krautland at 9:47 AM on December 16, 2008
Can you try to have a little conference with him before? Put him on your side - 'thanks for passing me the opportunity to do this presentation - what's the best way to handle it so that it'll increase my visibility/chances for conversion?'
posted by Salamandrous at 9:57 AM on December 16, 2008
posted by Salamandrous at 9:57 AM on December 16, 2008
it doesn't sound to me like you're a contractor anymore, according to the IRS' definition of same. isn't there an issue here entirely apart from whether or not you want to talk in front of people? isn't the law being broken?
/canadian who used to work in the US and doesn't know much
posted by klanawa at 11:27 AM on December 16, 2008
/canadian who used to work in the US and doesn't know much
posted by klanawa at 11:27 AM on December 16, 2008
I have a different perspective. For what it's worth, I've worked as a consultant/contractor, and I've worked as an employee. In many places, the contractors have the same mindset as you -- they feel they are employees-without-benefits. And companies encourage this mindset -- all the dedication to their company, for 30% less!
Here's my take: You are a contractor. That means, you work for yourself. Your company is not your company, it is your client. You do have great benefits -- whichever ones you purchase for yourself as your favorite employee of your one-person company! You don't do timesheets -- you send invoices. You pay both halves of your FICA, you do your own withholding and pay taxes quarterly. You deduct home office expenses from your taxes. You perhaps juggle more than one client, or have the option to sub-contract work to others. You look after your company's best interests (that's not them, that's you!)
Think of it that way for a minute. Have you been adjusting your pay up over these past years, to include increases in expenses? Did you correctly value your time to include your benefits? Are there benefits you would like to offer yourself, that you did not offer yourself before (gym membership, dental insurance, work from your office instead of theirs)?
Now look at your contract. It is probably based on time, given how you've been working. How many months are left on that contract? When that date comes, that is the time to renegotiate your agreement, to include all the fabulous things your wonderful boss (that's you!) will offer you now. Submit the new contract for approval or to amend the previous one, and see what happens.
Honestly, I don't think they will hire you -- it's cheaper to say, "oh yes, we're looking into that" and putting you off year after year. And, regardless of the company, someone must have the authority to make hiring decisions -- and for 4 years they've not made this one. So, my advice is to turn this to your advantage. You have few advantages if you accept the "contractor = employee without insurance" paradigm. But, as a contractor, you do not have to accept that idea -- you can be a true contractor.
When you submit invoices and amendments to your contract, they will see that you've switched ideas. You will either get hired, or get all the benefits you really deserve, or find a new client who will give you one of those.
posted by Houstonian at 3:06 PM on December 16, 2008 [1 favorite]
Here's my take: You are a contractor. That means, you work for yourself. Your company is not your company, it is your client. You do have great benefits -- whichever ones you purchase for yourself as your favorite employee of your one-person company! You don't do timesheets -- you send invoices. You pay both halves of your FICA, you do your own withholding and pay taxes quarterly. You deduct home office expenses from your taxes. You perhaps juggle more than one client, or have the option to sub-contract work to others. You look after your company's best interests (that's not them, that's you!)
Think of it that way for a minute. Have you been adjusting your pay up over these past years, to include increases in expenses? Did you correctly value your time to include your benefits? Are there benefits you would like to offer yourself, that you did not offer yourself before (gym membership, dental insurance, work from your office instead of theirs)?
Now look at your contract. It is probably based on time, given how you've been working. How many months are left on that contract? When that date comes, that is the time to renegotiate your agreement, to include all the fabulous things your wonderful boss (that's you!) will offer you now. Submit the new contract for approval or to amend the previous one, and see what happens.
Honestly, I don't think they will hire you -- it's cheaper to say, "oh yes, we're looking into that" and putting you off year after year. And, regardless of the company, someone must have the authority to make hiring decisions -- and for 4 years they've not made this one. So, my advice is to turn this to your advantage. You have few advantages if you accept the "contractor = employee without insurance" paradigm. But, as a contractor, you do not have to accept that idea -- you can be a true contractor.
When you submit invoices and amendments to your contract, they will see that you've switched ideas. You will either get hired, or get all the benefits you really deserve, or find a new client who will give you one of those.
posted by Houstonian at 3:06 PM on December 16, 2008 [1 favorite]
If I were you, I'd do a great job on the presentation, and then I'd address the issue of getting yourself some benefits. They're two separate things.
I've worked as a contractor for five years. What I've learned is this: unless you are ready to walk, they have you under their thumb. If you can go into BB's office and say, "I've been contacted by company X, and they have made me an offer. I'd prefer to stay here, I want to be loyal to this company, but I need benefits," things might go very differently for you.
However, they might very well say, "don't let the door hit you in the butt on the way out." And you have to be prepared for that. That's how it works.
Good luck!
posted by cleverevans at 4:36 PM on December 16, 2008
I've worked as a contractor for five years. What I've learned is this: unless you are ready to walk, they have you under their thumb. If you can go into BB's office and say, "I've been contacted by company X, and they have made me an offer. I'd prefer to stay here, I want to be loyal to this company, but I need benefits," things might go very differently for you.
However, they might very well say, "don't let the door hit you in the butt on the way out." And you have to be prepared for that. That's how it works.
Good luck!
posted by cleverevans at 4:36 PM on December 16, 2008
The secret to your giving a blockbuster of a presentation: Preparation, preparation, preparation. Write it out using the right language for the audience, edit it, read it aloud, read it aloud in front of a colleague who can give you some feedback, read it aloud some more, edit it some more. By presentation day, you'll know it so well, you'll have it so finely tuned, you'll be so comfortable with it, you'll floor them. Yay!
posted by exphysicist345 at 4:37 PM on December 16, 2008
posted by exphysicist345 at 4:37 PM on December 16, 2008
This thread is closed to new comments.
No.
That's worse than burning a bridge. You'd be burning a bridge in front of you. Don't be petty and personal when there's a chance that your request has nothing to do with the BB or his needs.
Do the thing he wants. Do a great job. But then a few days later have a chat where you say "You know, I was really glad to help you out with that presentation but I'm still only a contractor and it's kind of frustrating me. Is there any way to find out what's happening with me?"
(No if/then or threats from you, note. That's suicide.)
posted by rokusan at 6:53 AM on December 16, 2008 [2 favorites]