Do I legally have to set up direct debit accounts with everyone?
December 16, 2008 5:47 AM Subscribe
I have moved over to the UK from Australia a year ago and have some questions about bill paying practise, tv licensing and direct debit.
The system I would use in Australia- I recieve a bill in the mail for each service, on the back of the bill there was a Bpay number, I could log into my bank account and pay each bill one at a time, I did this at the end of each month. It seemed like a good system, I could keep track of everything.
I am having an argument with tv licensing, I have one month payment to make before I leave the country- they want me to set up direct debit for this one month and then ring up and cancel at the end of the month- aparently this is my only option.
Direct debit just seems like bad financial practice to me. You have to trust the company to take out the correct amount of money. If there are any disputes about payment you will always be fighting to get money back from them. I have to remember to cancel services that I am no longer using. Should I not legally be able to pay them the money that I owe them without giving them my bank account details?
The system I would use in Australia- I recieve a bill in the mail for each service, on the back of the bill there was a Bpay number, I could log into my bank account and pay each bill one at a time, I did this at the end of each month. It seemed like a good system, I could keep track of everything.
I am having an argument with tv licensing, I have one month payment to make before I leave the country- they want me to set up direct debit for this one month and then ring up and cancel at the end of the month- aparently this is my only option.
Direct debit just seems like bad financial practice to me. You have to trust the company to take out the correct amount of money. If there are any disputes about payment you will always be fighting to get money back from them. I have to remember to cancel services that I am no longer using. Should I not legally be able to pay them the money that I owe them without giving them my bank account details?
Can you not just pre-pay the bill by whatever scheme you're using now? I routinely overpay my credit card bills by a few dollars, which is meaningless on the one I use all the time, and sometimes means I carry a credit for months on the one I use only rarely. If the fee is the same every month, just double pay it now.
posted by jacquilynne at 6:17 AM on December 16, 2008
posted by jacquilynne at 6:17 AM on December 16, 2008
There are lots of ways to pay for a TV licence, unfortunately, they are very unhelpful about whether you can switch to a different payment scheme part way through a year. Here's relevant part of their web page. I would go with Mandal's approach and be stubborn "I don't have a UK bank account any more, how else can I pay?"
Are you in this position because your last year's licence has just expired, and you need to renew it? You buy the licence for a year, whether you need it for a year or not, you can't buy a licence for just a month. If this is the case, it would be why they want you to set up the ongoing direct debit, to pay for the whole thing.
posted by Helga-woo at 6:18 AM on December 16, 2008
Are you in this position because your last year's licence has just expired, and you need to renew it? You buy the licence for a year, whether you need it for a year or not, you can't buy a licence for just a month. If this is the case, it would be why they want you to set up the ongoing direct debit, to pay for the whole thing.
posted by Helga-woo at 6:18 AM on December 16, 2008
Yes, the Cash Payment scheme is your way forward here.
These are links to the licensing authority's website:
Cash Payment Plan
Paypoint (You've probably noticed already, but lots of small shops and post offices have "paypoint" signs which indicate that you can pay some utility bills there.)
Both pages say that you can opt to pay by cash weekly, fortnightly or monthly. It's worth pointing out that the TV licensing company (which is not a part of the BBC, it's a contracted firm) are evil and nightmarishly beaurocratic. Get as much as you can in writing, or consider recording your phone converastions with them.
For the record, though, Direct Debit is actually pretty safe. From what I remember it's like a credit card transaction: if you dispute a DD payment before a certain deadline the bank should refund you, then the bank works to extract money from whoever overcharged you. Importantly, I haven't tried this myself so don't know how easy this is in practice.
posted by metaBugs at 6:24 AM on December 16, 2008
These are links to the licensing authority's website:
Cash Payment Plan
Paypoint (You've probably noticed already, but lots of small shops and post offices have "paypoint" signs which indicate that you can pay some utility bills there.)
Both pages say that you can opt to pay by cash weekly, fortnightly or monthly. It's worth pointing out that the TV licensing company (which is not a part of the BBC, it's a contracted firm) are evil and nightmarishly beaurocratic. Get as much as you can in writing, or consider recording your phone converastions with them.
For the record, though, Direct Debit is actually pretty safe. From what I remember it's like a credit card transaction: if you dispute a DD payment before a certain deadline the bank should refund you, then the bank works to extract money from whoever overcharged you. Importantly, I haven't tried this myself so don't know how easy this is in practice.
posted by metaBugs at 6:24 AM on December 16, 2008
TV licenses last a year, you can't get a TV license for just 1 month, therefore they have no way for you to pay for just one month.
If you're going back to Australia, I wouldn't bother. Just tell them that you no longer need a TV License.
posted by missmagenta at 6:39 AM on December 16, 2008
If you're going back to Australia, I wouldn't bother. Just tell them that you no longer need a TV License.
posted by missmagenta at 6:39 AM on December 16, 2008
I should've previewed. Helga-woo is correct that you can't just buy a license for one month, you need to get one for the year. You can, however, get a refund for every quarter of the year that you don't need the license.
TV License Refund FAQs.
Honestly, in your position I'd be tempted not to bother. If your license has run out and you just need one for another month I think it will be a lot of time and effort to pay the annual license then claim your money back each quarter. Can you survive without watching broadcast TV for that month? Remember that the license is only required if you're watching TV shows as they're broadcast - using your TV to watch DVDs and play game consoles don't require one, neither does watching TV shows using the BBC's iPlayer unless you're watching something that's simultaneously being broadcast on TV.
In a totally unrelated note that obviously shouldn't inform your behaviour, when they thought I didn't have a license (long, annoying story) I found that the licensing company are big on threatening letters but didn't actually send someone round to check until three months later. Even then, that person has no right to enter your house without your invitation. If it's obvious from outside the house that you're using a TV to watch broadcast television, they can then go away and get a warrant to enter your house for the next time they visit, but by that time you'll be comfortably on a different continent.
posted by metaBugs at 6:55 AM on December 16, 2008
TV License Refund FAQs.
Honestly, in your position I'd be tempted not to bother. If your license has run out and you just need one for another month I think it will be a lot of time and effort to pay the annual license then claim your money back each quarter. Can you survive without watching broadcast TV for that month? Remember that the license is only required if you're watching TV shows as they're broadcast - using your TV to watch DVDs and play game consoles don't require one, neither does watching TV shows using the BBC's iPlayer unless you're watching something that's simultaneously being broadcast on TV.
In a totally unrelated note that obviously shouldn't inform your behaviour, when they thought I didn't have a license (long, annoying story) I found that the licensing company are big on threatening letters but didn't actually send someone round to check until three months later. Even then, that person has no right to enter your house without your invitation. If it's obvious from outside the house that you're using a TV to watch broadcast television, they can then go away and get a warrant to enter your house for the next time they visit, but by that time you'll be comfortably on a different continent.
posted by metaBugs at 6:55 AM on December 16, 2008
If you're leaving the country, just don't pay. I wouldn't trust them not to mess up and neglect to cancel your payments beyond the required single month. And if you get rid of your TV for that month, you don't have to pay at all in perfect legality.
posted by idiomatika at 7:09 AM on December 16, 2008
posted by idiomatika at 7:09 AM on December 16, 2008
Direct debits do have a guarantee for just such a reason; if you dispute the charge within 6 years, or cancel the direct debit prior to the money going out, the bank will always refund your money, and the bank deals with getting the money back from the company that made the charge. I've had to deal with a couple of companies billing me the day after a direct debit had been cancelled, and my bank (barclays) automatically refunded me without me even having to complain. Neither bothered to chase me up afterwards for money I didn't owe, which was a pleasant surprise.
If you look on the back of most bills, they have a direct payment option via a bank account number and reference number, so you can make one-off payments via online or telephone banking (this is usually the BACS system). Most of the high-street banks also have a bill-payment part of their online banking with standard billing companies (gas, electric, water, council tax etc) accounts already setup, so you just need the company name and reference number off the bill to make the payment.
You can pay the TV licence via online bill payments, but since it's an annual licence, you have to pay the whole thing up front, and then claim back the full unused months which would be a right pain in the arse.
The cash payment plan may also work, but you need a payment card for that - and the payment system is rather screwy. when you start, you actually pay for the first 12 months licence over 6 months by making double payments (once a week), and then the next 6 months you pay fortnightly, which is actually going towards your next licence after that. So if you start now with cash payments, you'd end up paying two months worth, with 4 weekly cash payments, and then have to claim that back. Even if you only pay two weeks worth (to cover a month) they'll chase you for the 2nd two weeks payments, even though you won't actually owe it in the end!
Unfortunately, yes, TV licensing IS this evil. Their basic approach is to make it so painful not to just pay the whole thing in advance, or by direct debit, so that everybody pays regardless of circumstances. Plus the whole threats of court, they even more unpleasant than dealing with ISPs.
Personally, since they're so unhelpful, I'd tell them I'd disconnected my aerial and I don't need a licence any more as you're only using your tv for a games console. By the time they've worked through the letters threatening to send an inspector round, you'll be out of the country. Though obviously the legal approach is to set up a monthly direct debit, then cancel it (if you cancel it in writing to your bank, they can't block it), or pay a year in advance and claim the 11 months back.
posted by ArkhanJG at 7:11 AM on December 16, 2008
If you look on the back of most bills, they have a direct payment option via a bank account number and reference number, so you can make one-off payments via online or telephone banking (this is usually the BACS system). Most of the high-street banks also have a bill-payment part of their online banking with standard billing companies (gas, electric, water, council tax etc) accounts already setup, so you just need the company name and reference number off the bill to make the payment.
You can pay the TV licence via online bill payments, but since it's an annual licence, you have to pay the whole thing up front, and then claim back the full unused months which would be a right pain in the arse.
The cash payment plan may also work, but you need a payment card for that - and the payment system is rather screwy. when you start, you actually pay for the first 12 months licence over 6 months by making double payments (once a week), and then the next 6 months you pay fortnightly, which is actually going towards your next licence after that. So if you start now with cash payments, you'd end up paying two months worth, with 4 weekly cash payments, and then have to claim that back. Even if you only pay two weeks worth (to cover a month) they'll chase you for the 2nd two weeks payments, even though you won't actually owe it in the end!
Unfortunately, yes, TV licensing IS this evil. Their basic approach is to make it so painful not to just pay the whole thing in advance, or by direct debit, so that everybody pays regardless of circumstances. Plus the whole threats of court, they even more unpleasant than dealing with ISPs.
Personally, since they're so unhelpful, I'd tell them I'd disconnected my aerial and I don't need a licence any more as you're only using your tv for a games console. By the time they've worked through the letters threatening to send an inspector round, you'll be out of the country. Though obviously the legal approach is to set up a monthly direct debit, then cancel it (if you cancel it in writing to your bank, they can't block it), or pay a year in advance and claim the 11 months back.
posted by ArkhanJG at 7:11 AM on December 16, 2008
Of course. if you don't actually have a tv-tuner capable of receiving broadcast TV (i.e. no TV or aerial disconnected) you really don't have to pay, though it's always a lot of fun convincing TV Licencing script readers of that.
posted by ArkhanJG at 7:12 AM on December 16, 2008
posted by ArkhanJG at 7:12 AM on December 16, 2008
ah, metaBugs is correct, you can only claim back complete quarters now - you used to be able to claim back any unused full month. Cheap bastards.
posted by ArkhanJG at 7:24 AM on December 16, 2008
posted by ArkhanJG at 7:24 AM on December 16, 2008
Response by poster: Thanks everyone, just to clarify a few things-
Yes I paid for a yearly license but it has expired so this is a renewal.
I would be happy to not watch tv for the month, the lady I spoke to on the phone seemed dubious of this. She also seemed sceptical that I would be leaving in a month..
I just rang up again, spoke to someone else and just asked to cancel and they said fine and theyd send an inspector. This just seems easier, from what everyones saying deciding to actually pay it would just be a pain in the ass.
Thanks for everyones advice, all of it is good, lets me know what my options are.
posted by phyle at 8:02 AM on December 16, 2008
Yes I paid for a yearly license but it has expired so this is a renewal.
I would be happy to not watch tv for the month, the lady I spoke to on the phone seemed dubious of this. She also seemed sceptical that I would be leaving in a month..
I just rang up again, spoke to someone else and just asked to cancel and they said fine and theyd send an inspector. This just seems easier, from what everyones saying deciding to actually pay it would just be a pain in the ass.
Thanks for everyones advice, all of it is good, lets me know what my options are.
posted by phyle at 8:02 AM on December 16, 2008
Nthing everyone who said don't pay it if you're leaving the country - TV licensing are evil, arrogant, interfering, domineering, bureaucratic sadists and the less you have to do wiith them the better. We haven't had a TV in the entire five years we've lived togther but we still regularly get threatening letters that assume that we must barely be able to resist the cornucopia of televisual delights on offer, despite having let the inspector in to see our non-existent TV at every address we have lived at...
ok, deep breath, rant over...
posted by Chairboy at 8:14 AM on December 16, 2008
ok, deep breath, rant over...
posted by Chairboy at 8:14 AM on December 16, 2008
I used to work for TVL Field Ops (in my defence, it was my first job and I didn't know any better).
The chance of an Enquiry Officer coming round in the next month is slim, but if one should turn up on your doorstep remember that they have absolutely no powers. They can ask questions and ask to snoop around your house for a TV set, but if you refuse there's nothing they can do. As a last resort they can make a search warrant application through their Courts Liason Manager, but this will take several months to get anywhere, and since the police have to be involved in its service tends only to be granted if the constabulary already have a hankering to nose around that address. In my experience, the EOs were often frustrated policeman types who relished the rare opportunity to come over all Sweeney and push their way into someone's house with the proper coppers.
I would recommend that, in the very unlikely event that an EO does turn up asking to speak to Mr.Phyle, simply say 'he's left the country', give a false name, say you've just moved in and you're already sorting out the license. Or you can just say nothing and shut the door. By the time anything comes of it you'll be long gone. And licensing is based solely on the address - once you've left you can forget all about it, as there's no chance that you'll be pursued as an individual for £10 of unpaid fees when/if you return to the UK.
And I second Chairboy's opinion that TVL is a deeply unpleasant organisation. It was bad enough when I worked there, when the scheme was administered by a department of the Post Office. It has since been outsourced to Capita, one of those delightful corporations that feasts on public sector contracts, who naturally run it as a profit making exercise. Please don't give them a penny you don't have to.
posted by boosh at 8:59 AM on December 16, 2008 [2 favorites]
The chance of an Enquiry Officer coming round in the next month is slim, but if one should turn up on your doorstep remember that they have absolutely no powers. They can ask questions and ask to snoop around your house for a TV set, but if you refuse there's nothing they can do. As a last resort they can make a search warrant application through their Courts Liason Manager, but this will take several months to get anywhere, and since the police have to be involved in its service tends only to be granted if the constabulary already have a hankering to nose around that address. In my experience, the EOs were often frustrated policeman types who relished the rare opportunity to come over all Sweeney and push their way into someone's house with the proper coppers.
I would recommend that, in the very unlikely event that an EO does turn up asking to speak to Mr.Phyle, simply say 'he's left the country', give a false name, say you've just moved in and you're already sorting out the license. Or you can just say nothing and shut the door. By the time anything comes of it you'll be long gone. And licensing is based solely on the address - once you've left you can forget all about it, as there's no chance that you'll be pursued as an individual for £10 of unpaid fees when/if you return to the UK.
And I second Chairboy's opinion that TVL is a deeply unpleasant organisation. It was bad enough when I worked there, when the scheme was administered by a department of the Post Office. It has since been outsourced to Capita, one of those delightful corporations that feasts on public sector contracts, who naturally run it as a profit making exercise. Please don't give them a penny you don't have to.
posted by boosh at 8:59 AM on December 16, 2008 [2 favorites]
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by mandal at 6:04 AM on December 16, 2008