I'm looking for Utopia.

December 16, 2008 4:12 AM

Where is the perfect place to live? For me, of course. Details inside.

I am 32yrs old, grew in the NYC suburbs (Westchester) and am now living in Helsinki, Finland with my significant other as this is where she comes from.

We are not happy enough living here. We have great friends, and she has a lovely family but Finland is not the place for us. We both agree we were happier in NY. However, I am not ready to head home just yet.

So we're looking for a new place to call home. I just started a job that is not dependent on my location. Basically I can live anywhere in the world, as long as it is near a major international airport as travel is a large part of it.

What I'm looking for is Utopia. The greatest place to live. I know there is no such thing, but I have some things I am looking for. Here goes.

Weather:

4 seasons. I need four seasons. Snow in the winter, and beaches in the summer. Flowers in the spring and foliage in the autumn.

Topography:

Needs to be near the sea, not in the middle of a body of land. Colorado is out as is Switzerland. (two places I enjoy, minus this factor)

Needs to be near mountains. For hiking, biking and skiing. Being more than a two hour drive to good skiing is a problem. Lots of room for my dogs to enjoy nature.

Needs to be green. Not dry and arid, but bountiful. South of Spain near Granada is a wonderful place, just too dry and sandy for me.


Location:

Needs to be near a major international airport as per my job. Close to a major city, but with the ability to have a home with a yard for my pups.


People:

Need to friendly and open. Warm and accepting. Fun loving and wanting to live life. Dog friendly as well.


It would be easiest to be within the EU or North America since that is where we have our residencies and citizenship. But other nations are certainly acceptable as long as there is a way to gain residency.

If we do head back to the states, I would most likely just return to NY or the New England area. I am in love with San Fransisco, but its a bit too far from Europe which I would have to travel to on a regular basis.


All recommendations, anecdotes and anything you feel like sharing is greatly appreciated. Just trying to get some outside perspectives of places I should be checking out.

And I will be watching this for the remainder of the day, so feel free to throw in some Qs.

Cheers.

posted by wile e to grab bag (45 comments total)

I was quite vague in my criterion above, because I am looking for a wide variety of responses. So please feel free to add things that don't exactly fit above, if you still feel it is a wonderful place to live.
posted by wile e at 4:19 AM on December 16, 2008

Actually, that seemed fairly specific to me. Can you give us some ideas of things you'd be willing to give up if something else balanced it out (in other words, put them in order of "must haves"). I kept thinking of places, but then your next criterion cancelled it.
posted by nax at 4:31 AM on December 16, 2008 [1 favorite]

New Zealand. Has everything you want except proximity.
posted by billysumday at 4:32 AM on December 16, 2008

the research triangle in north carolina (raleigh/durham/chapel hill) or atlanta, georgia. in either case you are about 6 hours frm the beach, 4 hours from the appalachian mountains, and can live close to a major airport in a house with a yard. also, both areas attract college educated professionals who will help a european feel welcome (in fact the triangle is home to a ton of universities). also in north carolina is charlotte, which also has a major airport, although folks i know complain that it's basically turning into a company town for the banking industry and has no culture. dunno if this is true or not. you will get four seasons in either place, although winters are going to be much more mild than they are in finland or even new york.

alternatively, the shenandoah valley in virginia may give you what you want: gorgeous mountain scenery and relative proximity to airports in washington and baltimore.
posted by thinkingwoman at 4:39 AM on December 16, 2008

You want to be near skiing so that means central-ish Europe. But you also want to be near a beach?

Those things are easier to achieve in someplace like California where the mountains are near the ocean. Tougher in Europe. Western France near the Atlantic, for example, has no mountains to spaek of. Here's a topographic map of Europe. Offhand, it looks like perhaps near the France/Spain border? (Barcelona?) Or southern France (Aix-en-Provence?) or Northwest Italy (Tuscany is too "dry" for you though...)
posted by vacapinta at 4:41 AM on December 16, 2008

Northern Italy? Southern France? They are close to mountains and close to water and well-connected to airports and such. Not sure about the snow, though.
posted by mustcatchmooseandsquirrel at 4:42 AM on December 16, 2008

RE: New Zealand - the only major international airport within 2 hours from a skifield would be near Christchurch...and therefore you're basically talking about a conservative farm country.
posted by dydecker at 4:42 AM on December 16, 2008

Yeah I was quite specific in the topographical aspect. But the combination of sea and mountains is what I grew up in and feels the most natural to me. I suppose the mountains are most important, so the sea could relate to a large body of water. Living here in Helsinki has really made me realize my need for mountains.

Southern France is heavily populated and a quite rich area in both attitude and cost of living.

I don't know much about the North Eastern part of Italy.

If I will be on the east coast of the states, it will most likely be NY/New England area as my family is there and it basically covers what I want in a place to live.

New Zealand is an interesting option but quite a bit away from it all.
posted by wile e at 4:51 AM on December 16, 2008

You already ruled out SF/Bay area, but since I basically agree with you on many of these criteria on what utopia would be, I'd suggest Portland, Oregon.

Seasons, topography, if Portland doesn't have the flight that Seattle or SFO would, the people are friendly...

Or maybe Vancouver?

Wish I had a non-US suggestion, but I guess I don't know Europe well enough (hah!) or at least any better than you do, if you've been living in Helsinki.
posted by polexa at 4:56 AM on December 16, 2008 [2 favorites]

How about Annecy? Mountains, body of water, short train ride to several large airports, varied climate.
posted by mustcatchmooseandsquirrel at 4:59 AM on December 16, 2008

Maine fits the bill 100%, but I wouldn't it recommend to someone who has the option of anywhere.
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 5:09 AM on December 16, 2008 [1 favorite]

What about somewhere near Lake Constance? It's about as big a lake as you'll find in Europe, it's close to the mountains and easy access to several airports, depending on where exactly around the lake you live. For intra-European travel, it's certainly well placed.

Or, from a more partisan perspective, Scotland. For example, around Loch Lomondside you can be within easy reach of the Clyde estuary, the Argyll forest and Trossach hills and Glasgow (inc airport), not to mention the Loch itself. Drawbacks: good skiing is not always guaranteed, most international flights from Glasgow are via London or Amsterdam. Pluses: Uk currently in a house price crash.
posted by Jakey at 5:11 AM on December 16, 2008

Boston. Lots of places to have a yard in the surrounding area and the airport is downtown -- incredibly close to houses with yards in Cambridge. Spring is short but the other three seasons fit your bill nicely. Don't believe the news about people not being friendly.

Oddly enough, DC also springs to mind. Skiing is in WVa, beaches on the eastern shore. The winter is maybe a bit too mild for your taste and the summers can be brutal. (But why stay in summer when you can go to Finland?) Spring and fall are gorgeous. Biggest downside? Traffic.
posted by Dick Paris at 5:30 AM on December 16, 2008

I've never lived there, but people seem to love Portsmouth, NH for most of the reasons you mention. It's a cute little city in its own right, only about an hour from Boston, on the water, and about 2-3 hours form most of the skiing in NH and VT. I was riding the lift once with a guy who couldn't stop raving about how it's one of the only places that gives you a lot of benefits of a city while still maintaining the small town vibe -- friendly people, really safe, etc.
posted by rachelv at 5:39 AM on December 16, 2008

We both agree we were happier in NYC

What made you happier in NYC?

I was going to suggest Seattle, but Seattle just doesn't compare with NYC.

Another consideration - if you just started a travel-based job, it may not matter where you live. Pick a place that is reasonably comfortable, and land at various other cities for your weekends.
posted by b1tr0t at 5:56 AM on December 16, 2008

My first thought was the Boston area, because, well that's where I am and it covers most of what you want. The "warm and friendly" part I suppose depends on a lot of things. I know someone who moved here from the South and lives in a north of the city suburb and thinks we're all rude and then I know someone who moved here from a mid-Atlantic state and lives in Boston proper and was just gushing about how friendly everyone is here. So I guess it's all relative and perhaps differs by neighborhood.

I'd also recommend Portland, Maine. On the sea, super close to skiing, etc, 4 seasons, and from folks I know who live(d) there, a very welcoming open community. It's more affordable than Boston, so you could definitely find a house with a yard for your dogs and still be in the city and within walking distance to the water--things that'd be hard to get in Boston. It's not all that different from how rachelv describes Portsmouth.
posted by jdl at 6:13 AM on December 16, 2008

portland, oregon. seriously hands down. perhaps seattle would intrigue you as well. even san francisco would be cool because snow and the other two seasons would be close by.

I'd say a roadtrip is in order.
posted by krautland at 6:13 AM on December 16, 2008

Go visit the Vancouver - Seattle - Portland corridor. See what you think.

But yeah, if you're looking for "NYC with mountains", it doesn't exist.
posted by qxntpqbbbqxl at 6:16 AM on December 16, 2008

I say go back to NY as it already meets the criteria you list.
You'll probably find you are more "ready to go back" than you imagine, and will take to it like a fish back in water.
posted by softsantear at 6:18 AM on December 16, 2008

Sorry if I was misleading with the NYC. I lived in the suburbs of NYC, not the city itself. But was only 30mins to the city for "action". I prefer the smaller city to living in the big one. Helsinki size wise, is perfect. Big enough to have things to do, but not so encumbering that you get lost every time you venture somewhere new.

But Helsinki is a tough place to feel at home in, for a foreigner. The people here are nice yes, but it takes a lot to find that out. Smiling and saying hello to strangers doesn't exist. I walk my dog on a beautiful sunny day, and return in a bad mood because everyone I tried greeting or speaking with just flat out ignored me. Not rudeness, just not a part of their culture. But something that I want to be a part of mine.
posted by wile e at 6:25 AM on December 16, 2008

It might help if you clarified what was wrong with Scandanavia, because topographically and seasonally it has exactly what you are saying you want (mountains, ocean, airports, seasons, etc). So clarifying your dislikes (eg "too expensive"; "their English is too fluent"; etc) could probably allow you to get much more focused answers.
posted by Forktine at 6:34 AM on December 16, 2008

I haven't spent much time in Sweden or Norway, so I can't rule out those countries. However Sweden is quite flat as well and Norway is, well the most expensive country in EU. So my dollar won't stretch too far.

So my problems with Helsinki, Finland (and not problems, I like it here, just looking for something better) are:

Winters are very dark and depressing.
summer is sometimes non-existent.
Rains a lot, very little snow.
Flat, no mountains.
People are not warm and friendly to strangers. A lot of wonderful people here, I meet new ones everyday. But my example from above makes it a tough society for me to live in.

There are many plus's here, but I don't want to go off topic.
posted by wile e at 6:40 AM on December 16, 2008

Some Canadian options:

Vancouver would be my suggestion. The city itself rarely gets snow, which is tremendously convenient, since it doesn't deal with it well on the few occasions that it does, but you don't have to go far to find lots of snow -- Whistler is just a couple hours away, and there's snow long before you get there. It's a big, multi-cultural city with great food and culture. It's practically in the ocean, and some parts of it are basically a rainforest.

It has a large International airport, with great flights to Asia-Pacific, but less great flights to the East Coast of the US or Europe, so depending on whether you want to minimize your flying time, that could be a factor. Those flights still exist, they're just more expensive and less frequent, so you might find yourself changing planes more often than you'd expect if you were in New York.

Toronto isn't coastal (though it does have beaches on the lake) and the skiing around here sucks. You can drive to Blue Mountain in less than 2 hours, but my understanding is that it's not stellar skiing. It's got more distinct seasons (hot summers, snowy winters, beautiful foliage in the fall) and much better flying time to Europe. Housing is cheaper than Vancouver and you're more likely to be able to get land with your house while staying near the city since it isn't backed up by the mountains.

Another city I don't know a ton about but which might be a possibility is Halifax. It's coastal. The skiing looks to be a little on the lame side -- the biggest nearby ski hill offers about 800 feet of vertical drop -- but it does exist. There are direct flights to Europe from there, though I'm not sure how many.
posted by jacquilynne at 6:52 AM on December 16, 2008

In that case, I think you should take a couple of weekend trips to Italy, Southern France, and the Adriatic coastline (eg Croatia) wrapping down towards Greece. Culturally, those areas may be much more to your liking, though of course there are compromises everywhere. Make a bunch of fast weekend trips, find a place that speaks to you, and give it a try. It's not like you are making a lifetime commitment here -- just an experiment to see if you like it.
posted by Forktine at 7:00 AM on December 16, 2008

Nthing the suggestions for North Carolina or Portland. Also, and I hate to say this but, what about New Jersey? I mean, it really sounds like, climate wise, you want to be in the tri-state area, protestations about not wanting to go home notwithstanding. (NJ, of course, has dog friendly suburbs, beaches, mountains, and seasons).
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 7:30 AM on December 16, 2008

Monocle did a piece a while back on the world's 20 most livable cities, which ranks according to some of the characteristics you list. I think you need to be a subscriber to view, but it could be worth ordering the back issue for more ideas.
posted by clark at 7:31 AM on December 16, 2008

Another vote for Vancouver. That's my own piece of utopia. It has it's problems, but I love it.
posted by arcticseal at 8:06 AM on December 16, 2008

I would suggest somewhere in southern New Hampshire. Manchester, my hometown, is about 45 minutes away from the ocean, roughly as far from the mountains, plenty of greenery, has an airport, and is less than an hour away from Boston, which has more of a big-city vibe, and has a really huge airport. It has everything you're looking for. Also, I assume you'd be renting, rather than buying a place? In that case, it would be good for you financially, as property taxes are high, but income taxes are zero.

The only thing about Manch Vegas itself is that I've heard some people find it a little grubby and provincial. I disagree, but if you think it seems a trifle crappy, you could instead look into Portsmouth New Hampshire, which is a lovely little seacoast city with a slightly artsier vibe.
posted by Greg Nog at 8:24 AM on December 16, 2008

Maine fits the bill, but things are so far gone that unless you're a tourist or rich, there's nothing to do but get pregnant at 18, do meth, and drive up and down the road.
I'm exaggerating, but only a little bit.

Austria's a match, except for the ocean. You might want to check out Italy's South Tyrol.
posted by dunkadunc at 8:35 AM on December 16, 2008

Brooklyn with a car. It's only an hour and a half to the Catskills.

If you don't care for the expense of NYC proper (and I don't blame you), there are towns near NYC you might like. New Paltz is a slightly hippie-ish college town. If you want to be closer to the mountains, Kingston and Saugerties are both beautiful little towns on the Hudson. Woodstock, Bearsville and Phonecia are lovely towns in the mountains themselves.
posted by abirae at 8:42 AM on December 16, 2008

Other than the ocean thing, Montreal might fit the bill. Great city, great people, best skiing in the northeast not far away, full four seasons ( though summer is a bit short, and winter is a bit long, but it is REALLY nice in the summer, which makes up for its brevity). And a relatively cheap cost of living...
posted by Grither at 8:54 AM on December 16, 2008

Well... Chile matches quite well, besides not being the EU or USA. The main problem would be, I think, the language and the lack of snow in winter unless you go to the mountains.

Everything else matches if you live in the central valley. Two hours to the west, beaches. Two hours to the east, mountains/snow (in winter). Seasons are very clearly defined, although in winter we get rain instead of snow.
posted by Memo at 9:00 AM on December 16, 2008

Another vote for checking out Croatia/ the Adriatics. And Vancouver sounds like it might work too.
posted by fshgrl at 9:28 AM on December 16, 2008

You really sound like you're describing New England, particularly Massachusetts, in terms of weather, topography, and location (and people, depending on your perspective, but if you're a New England native it would probably be friendly enough for you). You've mentioned you have family in the area. Is there a particular reason you aren't just moving back to New England, or are you just seeking ideas to see if there's somewhere you're not thinking of?
posted by min at 9:30 AM on December 16, 2008

You're describing Turin and vicinity- like Moncalieri or Settimo Torinese- to a tee.
posted by Zambrano at 9:47 AM on December 16, 2008

The PacNW is awesome! (I'm a transplanted Californian, been here 16 years.)

* 4 seasons, all of them mild; ocean (or Puget Sound, which is ocean-like), mountains, green everywhere. Seattle has the most major airport in the area.

* A very outdoorsy dog-friendly culture, but beware of the "Seattle Freeze." (Friendly, but hard to get past surface friendliness. It may be an artifact of Scandinavian immigrants; also, YMMV.)

* Yes, our winters can be dark & depressing, and we tend more towards rain than snow. (OTOH, today in Olympia WA it's 21F and sunny, with snow in the forecast for tomorrow.) And people drive like idiots in the snow, which is why I ride the bus. But I've never seen a more amazing summer: weeks of loooong sunny mild days. (Don't tell anybody I told you; it's the NW's best secret.) Portland tends to be both warmer & more wintry than Seattle IME, because it's more inland.

* Housing in the city proper in Seattle and Portland is crazy crazy crazy expensive, but finally dropping some IIRC. If your job doesn't require a regular commute, just occasional long-distance trips, there's lots of nice towns within an hour or two of either city, generally with lower housing costs.
posted by epersonae at 11:02 AM on December 16, 2008

Another vote to check out the Pacific Northwest. I think Portland, Seattle, and Vancouver are all jewels in their own ways. Each has an international airport (with direct SAS flights to Seattle), four seasons, water/mountains and (I think, anyway) very friendly people. The cities also have a diverse economic base. In terms of cost . . . it's gonna be cheaper than Finland.
posted by donovan at 11:22 AM on December 16, 2008

Actually, I'm seconding Zambrano's suggestion of the Piemonte region. It's a beautiful part of Italy, peaceful but full of great food and near to so many things.

I dont think you'll find the people that much friendlier than Finland though. To be honest, I think you're looking for a casual friendliness and chattiness with strangers that I've found, as an American living in Europe, to be a stereotypical American thing.
posted by vacapinta at 11:50 AM on December 16, 2008

Another vote for Vancouver, and I guess the Pacific Northwest in general.
posted by tickingclock at 11:52 AM on December 16, 2008

I'm only saying this because a few people have suggested New Zealand, but Sydney, Australia has everything you need, beaches, snowfields in winter just a few hours away. We have four seasons here too, sometimes all in the one day! The Blue Mountains are great for hiking all year round, but they don't really get much snow. The Snowy Mountains (very original name, Australia has a lot of these...The Great Sandy Desert anyone) have pretty good ski season in winter and a a couple of hours drive away, or a quick flight. People here are very friendly and laid-back. And the exchange rate would also work in your favour.

Travel to and from Europe is a bitch, 20+ hours in the air, but you can break it up with a nice stop over in South East Asia.
posted by robotot at 1:38 PM on December 16, 2008 [1 favorite]

It really does sound like you're describing New England pretty accurately. Just come back to Boston! There's a major airport, 4 seasons of the year, and since we're right on the ocean, we don't get the horrible snowfall that afflicts other parts of New England. I live in Cambridge, and I somehow missed the memo that a horrible ice storm had hit pretty much the rest of MA and NH, because we just got light rain.

People will say that NE Americans are gruff, but it's just not true. We're just straight-forward and honest. I've always found "polite to everyone" to translate to "truly polite to no one," and you never know when "bless your heart" really means "kiss my grits."

If you hurry, we're having a MeFi Meetup in Cambridge tomorrow night!
posted by explosion at 1:43 PM on December 16, 2008

That really sounded like New Hampshire to me.
posted by Ruki at 3:16 PM on December 16, 2008

I was riding the lift once with a guy who couldn't stop raving about how it's one of the only places that gives you a lot of benefits of a city while still maintaining the small town vibe

Portsmouth, NH looks and feels a lot like Boston, but in a far more suburban/sanitized way. It's like if you took Boston and threw away everything built after 1900. Property in Portsmouth is very expensive--comparable to the nicer neighborhoods in Boston.
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 4:16 PM on December 16, 2008

As a native Marylander, our wonderful state has everything.. well.. if only New York City were in the middle of it.. If Washington DC is a city you could be happy living in, or one of the Maryland counties surrounding (it is not cheap, and nowhere near as cool as NYC, but there is plenty to do here).. there's the Potomac river right here, it's an hour drive to Annapolis on the Chesapeake Bay, or south to some beaches in southern MD on the bay, 2 - 2.5 hours west to the Appalachians, some ski resorts in the WV mountains are closer than that, the Shenandoah in Virginia is a couple hours' drive as well.. beaches on the oceanfront, maybe about 3 hours drive. About 4 hours drive to NYC if you don't hit bad traffic, or you could easily take the Amtrak or get a pretty cheap flight.

Montgomery County (DC suburb) has absolutely fantastic public schools too, if you think about having kids. There's also great schools in northern Virginia but.. eh I take the Maryland side of that debate. National Airport is right on the metro line which is quite convenient, there's also BWI and Dulles airports not far. Everything you hear about the bad traffic is true, though. It's horrendous. Baltimore, Maryland is friendlier and more laid-back than DC, much lower cost of living and the traffic isn't near as bad, but I'd get advice from someone who lives there on whether they'd recommend it or not.

Oh and there are definitely four seasons here and it's not as cold as New England, which from my POV had miserably bad, freezing cold weather for way too much of the year. DC can be 90 degrees and humid quite often in summer, if you don't mind that..
posted by citron at 9:05 PM on December 16, 2008

Are you sure you want to rule out Switzerland? I live in France on the Swiss border and it ticks most of your boxes:

4 seasons. I need four seasons. Snow in the winter, and beaches in the summer. Flowers in the spring and foliage in the autumn.

We have superb skiing here in the winter - the best in the world. We have sandy beaches on Lac Leman in summer, the spring flowers are beautiful and when the trees turn in Autumn, it is just a burst of oranges, reds, yellows.

Needs to be near the sea, not in the middle of a body of land. Colorado is out as is Switzerland. (two places I enjoy, minus this factor)

We're not that close to the sea, but we have Lac Leman on our doorstep which is like an inland sea. We are also only a 4 hour drive from the Italian Riviera.

Needs to be near mountains. For hiking, biking and skiing. Being more than a two hour drive to good skiing is a problem. Lots of room for my dogs to enjoy nature.

Depending where you live, the skiing can be doorstep. We live in Chatel which is right in the middle of the world's largest ski area (the Portes du Soleil) and is a 30 minute drive from the nearest sandy beach on Lac Leman.

Needs to be green. Not dry and arid, but bountiful. South of Spain near Granada is a wonderful place, just too dry and sandy for me.

Verdant & green in the spring, summer and autumn, beautiful and snowy in winter!
Location:

Needs to be near a major international airport as per my job. Close to a major city, but with the ability to have a home with a yard for my pups.

Geneva airport only 80 km away!

People: Need to friendly and open. Warm and accepting. Fun loving and wanting to live life. Dog friendly as well.

The people here are great - very open and international in their outlook. I came out here 8 years ago and I have no intention of returning back to the UK.

Hope that helps!
posted by snowmonkey at 5:29 AM on May 29