3-2 College Programs

December 2, 2008 1:37 PM

College Filter: Has anyone ever participated in a 3-2 degree program at a college/university? Daughter is thinking about attending a small liberal arts all girl school and taking classes in and majoring in engineering at a large techie school. The whole college experience will be 5 years and she will have a B.S. degree from both schools. Students in the 3-2 program normally spend three years at college and two years attending an engineering school.
posted by sandra194 to education (8 comments total)

What degree will she be getting at the small liberal arts school?

It depends on what she wants to do really. If she is interested in engineering then I think the second degree from a liberal arts program won't gain her anything.
posted by chrisalbon at 2:15 PM on December 2, 2008

If this small women's liberal arts college is in the Atlanta suburbs and has the initials ASC, I'm one of their proud alumnae. Two of my close friends did the 3-2 program, getting her BA in math and economics, and then getting the BS in engineering at Tech. Both got a fantastic mix of the small liberal arts environment and the big university experience, and have been incredibly successful in her (engineering) career. One of them absolutely loved the mix of educational environments. The other really loved the liberal arts environment and was sad to leave it, but was thrilled with the education she got in her final two years as it pertained to her career goals. Both of them felt that the introductory and intermediate mathematics preparation they had at the small liberal arts school was fantastic prep for their advanced math and engineering at the tech school.

Regardless of whether I'm guessing correctly about the location, there are a number of great things to be said for this kind of program, in general. First and foremost, your daughter will start college in a nurturing environment full of very motivated women. At my school, the 'go away from home and go wild' phenotype was almost completely unseen. 'Slackers' at this school were not what anyone in the real world would call a slacker. After a few nurturing years, when she's a bit more mature (not that I question your daughter's no-doubt incredible maturity, of course), your daughter will move into the fend-for-yourself large university experience. Second, I think that some of the benefits of the single-sex environment for women going into math and engineering fields cannot be oversold. Women are often overlooked in these fields, and the gender breakdown is still very uneven, and for young women the quiet discouragement from participating in those fields can be very, very effective at keeping them out. Third, a liberal arts education is amazingly powerful for developing the kinds of (written, oral) communication skills that are so incredibly valuable in the workplace. These skills are not the focus of a 4-year engineering program, generally speaking. But by going to a large Tech for the last two years, she'll have a rigorous education in the advanced math and engineering courses she'll need to be taken seriously on the job market.

If I've guessed your daughter's program of interest, and you'd like to hear more about the particulars, please feel free to MeMail me. I can talk about my school all day long...
posted by amelioration at 2:21 PM on December 2, 2008

I went to a women's college that did not have this track, but otherwise, my experience assessment is the same as amelioration's. Slacking meant a 3.0. One wouldn't even admit to grades below that. I found that when I taught in a big state school, the attitudes of female students dismayed me, as I often had to really work them to get them to participate at the same rate that I experienced even in mixed-gender classes at my women's college (and our partner co-ed.) Having the women's college first is definitely a bonus to becoming an active learner in upper level courses. I'm not familiar with the 3-2 program, but it sounds like a very appealing blend of learning. The five-year length is not unusual for engineering programs, either, even at one school, so I wouldn't be concerned about that.

Also, please, it's a women's college, not a girl's school.
posted by cobaltnine at 2:42 PM on December 2, 2008

If she wants a women's liberal arts college with an engineering program, Smith College has one. It's a 4 year degree.
posted by LobsterMitten at 3:55 PM on December 2, 2008

I recently graduated from a large university with a B.S. in engineering, and I really wish something like this had been an option for me. I agree with Cobaltnine about the five-year length - most of my fellow students in engineering programs took longer than four years to graduate. I got done in four years but found it really stressful and difficult, not a particularly positive experience in hindsight.

On one hand, five years is fine and the program sounds great - there's a good chance your daughter would want to take four and a half or five years even at a regular engineering school. But on the other hand, I am curious about how the 2-year technical portion is achieved. There is no way I could have fit all my engineering courses into just two years. So your daughter might want to take a careful look at the curriculum to make sure there is a good balance across all five years and that expectations for the last two years are reasonable.
posted by beandip at 4:16 PM on December 2, 2008

All the 3-2 students I worked with in engineering school were much more well-rounded than us engineering-only dorks. I really regret not having done something like a 3-2 program; I feel like I just got a lot of training in school, rather than an education, since they were trying to cram so much engineering into so little time. in 3-2 programs, you have an extra year to actually *learn* about something more in the world.

(in case you couldn't tell, I'm a bit jaded about my engineering education.)
posted by notsnot at 7:35 PM on December 2, 2008

I did what I assume is an equivalent program in Canada, in my case for fine arts.

I have a 4 year Bachelor of Arts university degree and a 2 year conservatory fine-arts college diploma, earned concurrently at a joint program in 4 years. Several of my friends did this with a different arts specialization at the same university & college.

First off, it was fun. Although it was busy & required a lot more time management than a normal single-stream education, the program itself was a good experience, and I liked being able to pick&choose (within limits, of course) from the course calendars of both schools.

As for the outcome:
Since graduating, I have observed the careers of, and worked pretty closely with, alumni of both of these joint programs, as well as other artists of equal age & calibre who went to different schools. So I feel pretty qualified to talk about both programs and their relative merits, for what it's worth.

In my experience, the joint program alumni are better rounded than single-stream alumni. "Jointies" are more generally literate than other fine artists from conservatory programs, and their sensibilities and work are more artistically refined than most graduates of more academic arts programs. The mind-meld of studio work and theory worked very well in this regard, and students from the joint program therefore have a broad knowledge of the subject and its practice. They tend to do extremely well in academic settings (I know many who went on to excel at graduate degrees studying the history & practice of their art form). Joint-program alumni tend to be practical, versatile jacks-of-all-trades, and as such they make excellent teachers, and versatile, flexible, and adaptable freelance artists.

The con is that in comparison to people who attended fine arts conservatories, the joint-program grads undeniably tend to have weaker fine arts skills. They're just not as strong and not as disciplined when it comes to the art. This may be because of selection before the program began (maybe if people who are interested in, and deemed suitable for, a joint program, are inherently less singlemindedly disciplined). Or it could be an outcome because the program was weaker on studio skills, I can't tell. But either way, I notice it pretty strongly. Jointies make worse painters than single streamies, and if that isn't a nonsense sentence I don't know what is.

Hopefully that makes some sense and has some worth for you as a parallel to your situation. Seeing how it was the case with alumni from both the joint programs I'm familiar with- despite their having been taught by entirely different faculties- I would venture to guess that what I've described would be a common outcome for the alumni of many joint programs.
posted by pseudostrabismus at 8:23 PM on December 2, 2008

I considered doing such a program (although not all-girls since I'm not female) and rejected the idea. I'm not sure what the advantage is. If she really wants to be an engineer, why bother getting a liberal arts degree? It's not really something that's going to help you much in the end. In fact, I'd argue it'd hurt you because you'll have a compressed and non-diverse engineering experience. Similarly, if she's not interested in becoming an engineer, why bother going to engineering school? If she's waffling, she should go to a school with maximum flexibility - ie, not a liberal arts school.

It's certainly fun to consider such an opportunity. However, I'm reminded of the number of people I've seen with art/engineering double majors and then quickly post-graduation abandoned one or the other. It's an uncommon person that actually can utilize such a dissimilar educational experience.
posted by saeculorum at 9:07 PM on December 2, 2008