I do not want the gift of your pain
December 2, 2008 1:24 PM Subscribe
How can I learn to forgive and forget?
I get the concept of forgiving and forgetting intellectually. You forgive someone, and then forget about it.
How do I do that on an emotional level?
I'm not talking about any specific situation here, but just generally. I guess I'm looking for a general rule(s) that I can apply to an appropriate situation. I realise that we're all human, that we all make mistakes, and that some people are hurting too, etc. I get that, intellectually. What's missing, so to speak, is the emotional aspect; the actual forgiving.
How do I actually forgive, and then forget?
Personal experiences welcome.
I get the concept of forgiving and forgetting intellectually. You forgive someone, and then forget about it.
How do I do that on an emotional level?
I'm not talking about any specific situation here, but just generally. I guess I'm looking for a general rule(s) that I can apply to an appropriate situation. I realise that we're all human, that we all make mistakes, and that some people are hurting too, etc. I get that, intellectually. What's missing, so to speak, is the emotional aspect; the actual forgiving.
How do I actually forgive, and then forget?
Personal experiences welcome.
I found that forgiving comes from knowing that whatever people do, it's not about you, it's about them.
The forgetting part, that's another thing altogether.
posted by HopperFan at 1:34 PM on December 2, 2008 [1 favorite]
The forgetting part, that's another thing altogether.
posted by HopperFan at 1:34 PM on December 2, 2008 [1 favorite]
Best answer: That's a really, really personal thing. Sometimes forgiving isn't about a shiny, happy, puppy-dog "it's allllll better now" kind of thing, sometimes it's just about you deciding that dwelling on what happened just isn't doing you or the other person any favors and is actively hurting you, so you're just going to drop it and move on.
A book that I strongly, strongly recommend, that would provide a large number of opinions on this topic, is Simon Wiesenthal's The Sunflower. The first half of the book is Wiesenthal's account of an incident that happened to him when he was on the work crew at a concentration camp -- they had been sent to do some kind of grounds work at a hospital, when suddenly a nurse pulled him aside and brought him to the room of a terminally wounded Nazi soldier. The soldier had heard that a crew from one of the camps had been there and had asked that one of the workers be brought to him -- he explained to Wiesenthal that he was about to die, he said, and that he had been raised Catholic and believed in the idea of asking forgiveness. But because his sins were against the Jewish people, he went on, he wanted to confess to and be forgiven by a Jew. He then told Wiesenthal about his atrocities, and asked for forgiveness. Not knowing what else to do, Wiesenthal just sat silent a moment and then left.
In the camp that night he discussed the incident with a few others; some said that he should have forgiven him, as an act of charity towards a dying man. Others said no way, he didn't deserve forgiveness; and still others said he hadn't even had the right to extend forgiveness in the first place. The story ends with Wiesenthal's asking the readers "okay, what would YOU have done?"
...The second half of the book, though, is a series of essays from different religious, political, and social leaders, giving their answers to that question -- everyone from Primo Levi to The Dalai Lama to Archbishop Desmond Tutu. There are a staggering range of opinions in there about what forgiveness is, who is obligated to give it, who is obligated to request it, when it is and isn't appropriate, etc, etc., etc. I am willing to almost guarantee that no matter what your current perspective, you will encounter at least two perspectives that will make you blink and think, "....Huh. I never thought of it that way before."
...I was in New York City on 9/11, and I read this book extensively throughout the following few weeks. It helped me to get to a place where I can honestly say that I have forgiven the perpetrators -- this doesn't mean that I don't think they shouldn't be held accountable. But...oh, just read it. You'll sort of get what I mean.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 1:36 PM on December 2, 2008 [16 favorites]
A book that I strongly, strongly recommend, that would provide a large number of opinions on this topic, is Simon Wiesenthal's The Sunflower. The first half of the book is Wiesenthal's account of an incident that happened to him when he was on the work crew at a concentration camp -- they had been sent to do some kind of grounds work at a hospital, when suddenly a nurse pulled him aside and brought him to the room of a terminally wounded Nazi soldier. The soldier had heard that a crew from one of the camps had been there and had asked that one of the workers be brought to him -- he explained to Wiesenthal that he was about to die, he said, and that he had been raised Catholic and believed in the idea of asking forgiveness. But because his sins were against the Jewish people, he went on, he wanted to confess to and be forgiven by a Jew. He then told Wiesenthal about his atrocities, and asked for forgiveness. Not knowing what else to do, Wiesenthal just sat silent a moment and then left.
In the camp that night he discussed the incident with a few others; some said that he should have forgiven him, as an act of charity towards a dying man. Others said no way, he didn't deserve forgiveness; and still others said he hadn't even had the right to extend forgiveness in the first place. The story ends with Wiesenthal's asking the readers "okay, what would YOU have done?"
...The second half of the book, though, is a series of essays from different religious, political, and social leaders, giving their answers to that question -- everyone from Primo Levi to The Dalai Lama to Archbishop Desmond Tutu. There are a staggering range of opinions in there about what forgiveness is, who is obligated to give it, who is obligated to request it, when it is and isn't appropriate, etc, etc., etc. I am willing to almost guarantee that no matter what your current perspective, you will encounter at least two perspectives that will make you blink and think, "....Huh. I never thought of it that way before."
...I was in New York City on 9/11, and I read this book extensively throughout the following few weeks. It helped me to get to a place where I can honestly say that I have forgiven the perpetrators -- this doesn't mean that I don't think they shouldn't be held accountable. But...oh, just read it. You'll sort of get what I mean.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 1:36 PM on December 2, 2008 [16 favorites]
Revenge.
Just kidding.
But really, I've found it's only possible to forgive a person for a slight if you make him really understand what he's done, and allow him to explain to you his position. I'm talking about very big things here--not someone having a bad day and snapping at you over the phone. It's laborious, and the person who wronged you may not want to participate, but a long conversation about everything that happened and how you feel about everything that happened can be cathartic and eye-opening. I'm of the belief that communication and complete honesty can only help, not hinder, a situation--though I'm sure many people disagree. In fact, I know they do, because having these conversations has been like pulling very deeply rooted teeth. But sometimes teeth need to be pulled. This reply is becoming too dental. Good luck.
posted by millipede at 1:39 PM on December 2, 2008 [1 favorite]
Just kidding.
But really, I've found it's only possible to forgive a person for a slight if you make him really understand what he's done, and allow him to explain to you his position. I'm talking about very big things here--not someone having a bad day and snapping at you over the phone. It's laborious, and the person who wronged you may not want to participate, but a long conversation about everything that happened and how you feel about everything that happened can be cathartic and eye-opening. I'm of the belief that communication and complete honesty can only help, not hinder, a situation--though I'm sure many people disagree. In fact, I know they do, because having these conversations has been like pulling very deeply rooted teeth. But sometimes teeth need to be pulled. This reply is becoming too dental. Good luck.
posted by millipede at 1:39 PM on December 2, 2008 [1 favorite]
I sometimes forgive, but I never forget. I think it's vitally important to remember another person's actions as there are always lessons to be learned.
posted by scarello at 1:40 PM on December 2, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by scarello at 1:40 PM on December 2, 2008 [1 favorite]
Forgiveness is something you do for yourself, not for someone else. Don't consider whether a person deserves forgiveness, or whether your hurt is justified. You just need to allow yourself to let the problem become part of your past. Hanging onto a grudge is an unhealthy way to be treating yourself. You don't even need to call it 'forgiveness' - do what wfrgms says and move on, if that's an easier way to look at it.
posted by le morte de bea arthur at 1:40 PM on December 2, 2008 [3 favorites]
posted by le morte de bea arthur at 1:40 PM on December 2, 2008 [3 favorites]
Best answer: Hoooboy. You asked this on quite a relevant day for me.
What took me a long time to figure out is that forgiveness, contrary to what I had thought previously, is more about me than the other person(s) involved. Forgiving is acknowledging that a horrible situation happened and putting it somewhere emotionally where it lies in peace. That is, sometimes you simply cannot decide for this to happen. Sometimes it falls there and sometimes it doesn't. What I've noticed is what Sonic says above: time either helps you...or it doesn't. By that I mean that sometimes after something hurts you for a prolonged, prolonged period, you exhaust yourself and have to make a decision: am I gonna keep up this fight? Or am I gonna lay down to it, not accepting it as the 'right thing' but merely accepting that it happened and I'm powerless to change it?
I am a runner, so I tend to think to think of forgiveness as a running analogy: have I run this course as long and as well and as intensely as I can? Am I tired? Have I had my fill? Or do I still feel jostling in my heart, as if there's more to do? And somehow I just know. I can feel internally when I'm not at peace and I venture to guess that most people do. This requires not permitting yourself to compartmentalize.
Opposite of you, it's the forgetting part that comes harder to me. I don't forget and that's kinda because I don't want to; in fact, I think it's a detriment to forget. I hang onto those experiences because I guaran-goddamn-tee ya another will come along and I want to have that prior negative experience in my arsenal. I - and I can't believe I'm writing this sentence - find that as I get older, life becomes more and more, hmm, repetitive for lack of a better word. I see the same situations over and over, or at least variations on them. So I fall back on my prior experiences to guide me.
But forgetting: if you wish to do it, I feel it simply means that you have consciously decided not to draw on that experience again. You consciously decide to prevent it from impacting your future behavior/reactions.
An example: my dad is an abusive asshole and it went on for years and years and years. And one day, I got tired. One day I accepted that he is defective and no matter how hard I try, he is an asshole. There is no discussion, intervention, or event that is going to change his assholeness. He will never apologize for what he's done and will never, ever see anything as his fault. So I stopped. And I forgave him for being a gigantic, self-centered asshole and I pity him. And a bizarre form of peace has filled me since and he doesn't bother me anymore. He is no longer a part of my life whatsoever.
The scene that often comes to mind for me is Nettie in The Color Purple. She raises her hand to her abusive husband and says, "Everything you've done to me, I've already done to you." What that means to me is that everything my dad did to me - beatings, insults, humiliations - I've acted out against him in retaliation a thousand times in my mind and contemplated doing it for real. But in the end, I didn't do it for real, because I'm not an asshole and I take great pride in being different from him. He tried his best, but he never broke me. He baited me to stoop to his level, but I never did.
To me, forgiveness is that type of generosity of spirit that doesn't involve selling yourself short or stifling your emotions. Rather, it's a pure sensation of knowing the other person cannot help or change who they are and you've accepted that.
posted by December at 1:51 PM on December 2, 2008 [10 favorites]
What took me a long time to figure out is that forgiveness, contrary to what I had thought previously, is more about me than the other person(s) involved. Forgiving is acknowledging that a horrible situation happened and putting it somewhere emotionally where it lies in peace. That is, sometimes you simply cannot decide for this to happen. Sometimes it falls there and sometimes it doesn't. What I've noticed is what Sonic says above: time either helps you...or it doesn't. By that I mean that sometimes after something hurts you for a prolonged, prolonged period, you exhaust yourself and have to make a decision: am I gonna keep up this fight? Or am I gonna lay down to it, not accepting it as the 'right thing' but merely accepting that it happened and I'm powerless to change it?
I am a runner, so I tend to think to think of forgiveness as a running analogy: have I run this course as long and as well and as intensely as I can? Am I tired? Have I had my fill? Or do I still feel jostling in my heart, as if there's more to do? And somehow I just know. I can feel internally when I'm not at peace and I venture to guess that most people do. This requires not permitting yourself to compartmentalize.
Opposite of you, it's the forgetting part that comes harder to me. I don't forget and that's kinda because I don't want to; in fact, I think it's a detriment to forget. I hang onto those experiences because I guaran-goddamn-tee ya another will come along and I want to have that prior negative experience in my arsenal. I - and I can't believe I'm writing this sentence - find that as I get older, life becomes more and more, hmm, repetitive for lack of a better word. I see the same situations over and over, or at least variations on them. So I fall back on my prior experiences to guide me.
But forgetting: if you wish to do it, I feel it simply means that you have consciously decided not to draw on that experience again. You consciously decide to prevent it from impacting your future behavior/reactions.
An example: my dad is an abusive asshole and it went on for years and years and years. And one day, I got tired. One day I accepted that he is defective and no matter how hard I try, he is an asshole. There is no discussion, intervention, or event that is going to change his assholeness. He will never apologize for what he's done and will never, ever see anything as his fault. So I stopped. And I forgave him for being a gigantic, self-centered asshole and I pity him. And a bizarre form of peace has filled me since and he doesn't bother me anymore. He is no longer a part of my life whatsoever.
The scene that often comes to mind for me is Nettie in The Color Purple. She raises her hand to her abusive husband and says, "Everything you've done to me, I've already done to you." What that means to me is that everything my dad did to me - beatings, insults, humiliations - I've acted out against him in retaliation a thousand times in my mind and contemplated doing it for real. But in the end, I didn't do it for real, because I'm not an asshole and I take great pride in being different from him. He tried his best, but he never broke me. He baited me to stoop to his level, but I never did.
To me, forgiveness is that type of generosity of spirit that doesn't involve selling yourself short or stifling your emotions. Rather, it's a pure sensation of knowing the other person cannot help or change who they are and you've accepted that.
posted by December at 1:51 PM on December 2, 2008 [10 favorites]
Full Disclosure: I'm a Christian.
I've successfully buried a lot of hatchets from my pre-Christian days (37 years as an atheist, 3 years as a Christian). There were lots of situations where I had treated people in a manner that I would consider unforgivable. Once I worked up the guts to offer a genuine apology, and an appropriate amount of time had passed for them to see that I wasn't reverting to form, they forgave me. It's been a pretty awesome experience.
When I'm dealing with trying to forgive someone for a serious hurt, I spend some time marveling at the amount of forgiveness that I have -received-. It puts my mind in a much better/more humble place.
<ChristianStuff>Scripture tells me "As you have freely received, freely give," and the Lord's Prayer includes "forgive us our sins, as we forgive those who sin against us". If God can forgive me for my daily and constant rebellion, then I can certainly make a genuine effort to forgive my fellow man.</ChristianStuff>
posted by DWRoelands at 1:58 PM on December 2, 2008 [1 favorite]
I've successfully buried a lot of hatchets from my pre-Christian days (37 years as an atheist, 3 years as a Christian). There were lots of situations where I had treated people in a manner that I would consider unforgivable. Once I worked up the guts to offer a genuine apology, and an appropriate amount of time had passed for them to see that I wasn't reverting to form, they forgave me. It's been a pretty awesome experience.
When I'm dealing with trying to forgive someone for a serious hurt, I spend some time marveling at the amount of forgiveness that I have -received-. It puts my mind in a much better/more humble place.
<ChristianStuff>Scripture tells me "As you have freely received, freely give," and the Lord's Prayer includes "forgive us our sins, as we forgive those who sin against us". If God can forgive me for my daily and constant rebellion, then I can certainly make a genuine effort to forgive my fellow man.</ChristianStuff>
posted by DWRoelands at 1:58 PM on December 2, 2008 [1 favorite]
wfrgms' answer basically sums up my feelings on the whole forgiveness issue.
Most of life's hurtful/harmful situations (especially traumatic ones) are more complicated than a simple "forgive and forget" can solve. Some things just can't be forgiven and some things just can't be forgotten, and no one should be made to feel like an emotional failure if they choose not to do so.
The good news is, most people are perfectly capable of moving on and thriving (and learning or growing, if applicable) without getting caught up in the semantic psychobabble of what forgiveness means.
posted by amyms at 2:09 PM on December 2, 2008
Most of life's hurtful/harmful situations (especially traumatic ones) are more complicated than a simple "forgive and forget" can solve. Some things just can't be forgiven and some things just can't be forgotten, and no one should be made to feel like an emotional failure if they choose not to do so.
The good news is, most people are perfectly capable of moving on and thriving (and learning or growing, if applicable) without getting caught up in the semantic psychobabble of what forgiveness means.
posted by amyms at 2:09 PM on December 2, 2008
Best answer: I'm really slow to forgive. I wish I were better at it. What it takes for me is to just make a conscious decision to let go. It's really exhausting to be angry when you think about it. So, just decide not to carry that weight anymore, and then give yourself time for it to actually happen. It also helps to find more positive things to focus on. It's so much easier to forgive someone when you're happy and healthy.
It's also important to avoid impossible goals. You can forgive someone, but it doesn't mean that whatever happened will stop hurting or that you have to turn a blind eye to that person's wrongdoings.
For example, I went through a very bad breakup with a very bad boyfriend several years ago. I thought I would never forgive him, and I smiled a little every time I heard that his life wasn't going so well. Eventually I got tired of having that sitting in my heart all the time, so I wrote him an email and told him I forgave him, even though I wasn't totally feeling it yet. He was grateful to hear it, and I started to feel better right away. But I don't have to like him. He's still an asshole, and his emails go right to the trash bin. I'm just not harboring the anger anymore.
posted by katillathehun at 2:23 PM on December 2, 2008 [2 favorites]
It's also important to avoid impossible goals. You can forgive someone, but it doesn't mean that whatever happened will stop hurting or that you have to turn a blind eye to that person's wrongdoings.
For example, I went through a very bad breakup with a very bad boyfriend several years ago. I thought I would never forgive him, and I smiled a little every time I heard that his life wasn't going so well. Eventually I got tired of having that sitting in my heart all the time, so I wrote him an email and told him I forgave him, even though I wasn't totally feeling it yet. He was grateful to hear it, and I started to feel better right away. But I don't have to like him. He's still an asshole, and his emails go right to the trash bin. I'm just not harboring the anger anymore.
posted by katillathehun at 2:23 PM on December 2, 2008 [2 favorites]
You can forgive but you will never forget. Depending on the level of attachment with the person whose previous actions you are trying to forgive and forget you will find out just how much has been forgiven and forgot when the times get tough.
It is a nice idea in theory but hard to implement in reality.
posted by pianomover at 2:29 PM on December 2, 2008
It is a nice idea in theory but hard to implement in reality.
posted by pianomover at 2:29 PM on December 2, 2008
It's much more difficult than it sounds, given how people just throw the phrase around as if it's something a person can just do whenever they want.
A philosophy/literature professor I had in college said in class one time that forgiveness may not actually exist, because if an act is forgivable, it doesn't require forgiveness. The things you really need or want to forgive or be forgiven for are things that are unforgivable, and therefore by definition impossible to forgive. (She said it much better than I am). I'm not completely sure I agree, but it stuck with me and it's something I've ruminated on since then, especially in moments where I've felt wronged by someone.
On the other hand, when it comes to things that are or at least should be forgivable, DWRoelands's answer makes some sense to me, despite the fact that I am and probably will always be an atheist. When something gets to me, something that helps me move on internally is to consider the things that I sometimes do that probably get to other people.
Time can do it, but there's no guarantee. Sometimes a friend has hurt me, and then things aren't right with us for a while. Then eventually we meet again, and time has passed, and new things have happened, and...it just doesn't matter anymore. That's not really an answer, except to just go on with life and don't be cruel in return.
Then there are times when you just have to allow yourself to be angry for a little while. To know, OK, I'm not going to allow myself to dwell on this forever, but just for right now, GRRRRRR!!! Sometimes trying to deny yourself that moment of anger just delays forgiveness rather than quickening it.
The thing is, and I've thought about this a lot...I'm not so sure that it's at all a conscious choice. I'm not sure it isn't, either. But I haven't fully figured it out yet.
posted by lampoil at 2:31 PM on December 2, 2008
A philosophy/literature professor I had in college said in class one time that forgiveness may not actually exist, because if an act is forgivable, it doesn't require forgiveness. The things you really need or want to forgive or be forgiven for are things that are unforgivable, and therefore by definition impossible to forgive. (She said it much better than I am). I'm not completely sure I agree, but it stuck with me and it's something I've ruminated on since then, especially in moments where I've felt wronged by someone.
On the other hand, when it comes to things that are or at least should be forgivable, DWRoelands's answer makes some sense to me, despite the fact that I am and probably will always be an atheist. When something gets to me, something that helps me move on internally is to consider the things that I sometimes do that probably get to other people.
Time can do it, but there's no guarantee. Sometimes a friend has hurt me, and then things aren't right with us for a while. Then eventually we meet again, and time has passed, and new things have happened, and...it just doesn't matter anymore. That's not really an answer, except to just go on with life and don't be cruel in return.
Then there are times when you just have to allow yourself to be angry for a little while. To know, OK, I'm not going to allow myself to dwell on this forever, but just for right now, GRRRRRR!!! Sometimes trying to deny yourself that moment of anger just delays forgiveness rather than quickening it.
The thing is, and I've thought about this a lot...I'm not so sure that it's at all a conscious choice. I'm not sure it isn't, either. But I haven't fully figured it out yet.
posted by lampoil at 2:31 PM on December 2, 2008
I agree with those who have said it takes time, it varies from person to person, and I don't think it's something you can make happen by force of will--but at some point you'll find yourself saying, "I'm tired of being angry, I don't want to be sad anymore: fuck it."
posted by Restless Day at 2:43 PM on December 2, 2008
posted by Restless Day at 2:43 PM on December 2, 2008
Best answer: "I can forgive, but I cannot forget," is only another way of saying, "I will not forgive." Forgiveness ought to be like a canceled note -- torn in two, and burned up, so that it never can be shown against one. -- Henry Ward Beecher, American clergyman (1813 - 1887)
I believe that actively working on forgetting what other people have done to diminish you is an essential part of forgiveness that effectively validates it (full disclosure: I too am a Christian).
What works best for me is realizing that forgiveness very necessarily means that you assume some amount of hurt or loss. Say my brother steals some money from me and blows it gambling or something. If I decide to forgive him, I take on that loss - I say its OK and I walk away with less money. I assume the loss, the debt that my brother owes me. This concept is basically germane to any type of forgiveness - you have to realize that truly forgiving will in a sense leave you unchanged, in your diminished state. You take on that expense and assume the debt that the person who harmed you was holding.
If you can really, truly get to that point, I would wonder why one would actually *want* to remember it. I'd want to not think about it any more, just like I try not to dwell on any unpleasant experience too much. I'm not saying it comes easily, and I'm not naive - that experience will join all of the others in my memory and there's nothing I can do to stop my brain from filing it away. But what I can do is, when someone says or does something that causes me to access that particular memory file, is respond by actively choosing not to open the file and read it. Its as if I pull the file, note the "FORGIVEN" stamp on the file, and put it back in the drawer. I actually say to myself in my brain "No, I said I wouldn't remember that." And then I don't blurt out that "Remember that time you..." that I'll probably forget. And I don't stew on it and let myself become bitter.
The great thing is that the more times you choose not to think about something, not to dwell on it, not to access the particular memory, is that it can begin to fade in detail. You can remember this past Thanksgiving pretty well, but where were you for Thanksgiving in 1989? That's probably not a memory you access often, so how sharp are you on the details? This is exactly what forgetting is.
Good on you for asking the question and wanting to change. It won't be easy work but it can be done.
posted by allkindsoftime at 2:48 PM on December 2, 2008
I believe that actively working on forgetting what other people have done to diminish you is an essential part of forgiveness that effectively validates it (full disclosure: I too am a Christian).
What works best for me is realizing that forgiveness very necessarily means that you assume some amount of hurt or loss. Say my brother steals some money from me and blows it gambling or something. If I decide to forgive him, I take on that loss - I say its OK and I walk away with less money. I assume the loss, the debt that my brother owes me. This concept is basically germane to any type of forgiveness - you have to realize that truly forgiving will in a sense leave you unchanged, in your diminished state. You take on that expense and assume the debt that the person who harmed you was holding.
If you can really, truly get to that point, I would wonder why one would actually *want* to remember it. I'd want to not think about it any more, just like I try not to dwell on any unpleasant experience too much. I'm not saying it comes easily, and I'm not naive - that experience will join all of the others in my memory and there's nothing I can do to stop my brain from filing it away. But what I can do is, when someone says or does something that causes me to access that particular memory file, is respond by actively choosing not to open the file and read it. Its as if I pull the file, note the "FORGIVEN" stamp on the file, and put it back in the drawer. I actually say to myself in my brain "No, I said I wouldn't remember that." And then I don't blurt out that "Remember that time you..." that I'll probably forget. And I don't stew on it and let myself become bitter.
The great thing is that the more times you choose not to think about something, not to dwell on it, not to access the particular memory, is that it can begin to fade in detail. You can remember this past Thanksgiving pretty well, but where were you for Thanksgiving in 1989? That's probably not a memory you access often, so how sharp are you on the details? This is exactly what forgetting is.
Good on you for asking the question and wanting to change. It won't be easy work but it can be done.
posted by allkindsoftime at 2:48 PM on December 2, 2008
Best answer: I'm voting with December.
And, I'm not a Christian, it's not tied into a particularly Judeo-Christian morality, it's not turn-the-other-cheek bullshit, and I wish I could do it more easily, more often.
Forgive
To excuse for a fault or an offense; pardon.
To renounce anger or resentment against.
To absolve from payment of (a debt, for example).
Last example I had of forgiving:
I got screwed over by a company. I'd rang, and emailed, and tried to get some kind of compensation from the support staff, brick wall, brick wall, brick wall. They were rude (in return, I was cutting), I was spending my mental time composing rebuttals and requests to go higher up, and mentally scoring points whenever they did start to sound embarrassed once they realised what had happened and what they were doing (and passed me onto another person, who'd also be a jerk, rinse-wash-repeat. I was starting to have to consider filing a small claim. It would, of course, take more of my time than it was worth. Or I could register a website in their name, and explain how they suck, or any of a million other stupid revenge/justice schemes that would take up too much of my time.
It... It had already taken more time than it was worth. I could have send no emails, less calls, and it still wouldn't have been worth it for the constant mental run-through of how I'd been done wrong. It was hurting me, because during the time I was dealing with it, underlying all the things I was doing, I felt stressed and upset by this petty little conflict. I don't have much money, but I don't need money as much as I need peace of mind.
I'm not going to understanding from a company, and bunches of their support staff, who are paid to stick with the screw-over line, and told not to escalate things even when there has been a problem.
That should be pretty obvious example. Thing is, some individuals are just as oblivious. You're just as unlikely to get recognition, acceptance, understanding.
So, do I just wait? Let time gradully heal the wound and in the meantime feel frustrated? Still occasionally think with annoyance about "that time I got screwed over" (and how I'm not letting that happen again?).
No.
I forgave them.
I didn't need to tell them, I just did it in my head. In my attention, in my emotions towards them.
I renounced my anger and resentment against them.
When I felt resentful, I was giving my energy to them. And it was utterly wasted.
I'm talking about my mental attention, my time, and my physical energy levels - feeling those negative emotions caused me stress, leaving me physically a little more exhausted than I was before.
So I let it go.
I used a little visualisation -
I imagined 'the company' (the collection of people involved in it, as one concept) and myself, floating in space. I imagined a little cord between us, that was all twisted up like a phone cord, that I was tightly holding onto on my end, and that I was draining energy from me. If you're doing this, just allow whatever conception you have of the cord to exist (like, it may be different sizes for different people in your life. Twisted, springy, or dirty etc).
I relaxed. I imagined relaxing my hold on the cord. I imagined sending bright light down the cord, clearing out all the grime/yucky feelings I had before. I imagined sending goodwill & compassion through the cord.
When I felt like I was done, I allowed the cord to gently unwind, and they drifed further and further away, growing smaller, and smaller, and I let go.
The cord didn't entirely disappear, just grew very thin, a hair whisp, which I guess represents to me the interconnections I have with all the people & things in my society, but they were no longer visible.
Althernately, you could just imagine letting it go, or cutting it if you want to release all contact.
It took me less than 5 minutes to do this, and once I did - I was over it.
I felt miles better than I had 5 minutes earlier. I didn't feel annoyed anymore, it was over, and my attention no longer drifted to them.
I've gone this exercise with someone I still wanted to have dealings with, after sending all the compassion down, I unwounding the twists and that involved them drifting further away, but that's what I needed (an ex-partner). The friend who suggested this visualisation just untwists it without increasing the distance.
It's just a way of getting your mind to reframe your relationship with someone/something - It's kind of a visualised, emotionally focussed version of the principle shown in this study: http://scienceblogs.com/neurophilosophy/2008/11/distorting_the_body_image_affects_perception_of_pain.php
See also Buddhist techniques for letting go of attachment (attachment is the source of all suffering - forgiveness is letting go of 'attachment'), and building compassion.
See also another more verbal method of dealing with unpleasant inter-personal feelings (aka things that require forgiveness), is using these questions and turnarounds. I am not endorsing any other books, or media from this author, I've just used the info as presented on that one page occasionally, and found it useful.
posted by Elysum at 3:26 PM on December 2, 2008 [3 favorites]
And, I'm not a Christian, it's not tied into a particularly Judeo-Christian morality, it's not turn-the-other-cheek bullshit, and I wish I could do it more easily, more often.
Forgive
To excuse for a fault or an offense; pardon.
To renounce anger or resentment against.
To absolve from payment of (a debt, for example).
Last example I had of forgiving:
I got screwed over by a company. I'd rang, and emailed, and tried to get some kind of compensation from the support staff, brick wall, brick wall, brick wall. They were rude (in return, I was cutting), I was spending my mental time composing rebuttals and requests to go higher up, and mentally scoring points whenever they did start to sound embarrassed once they realised what had happened and what they were doing (and passed me onto another person, who'd also be a jerk, rinse-wash-repeat. I was starting to have to consider filing a small claim. It would, of course, take more of my time than it was worth. Or I could register a website in their name, and explain how they suck, or any of a million other stupid revenge/justice schemes that would take up too much of my time.
It... It had already taken more time than it was worth. I could have send no emails, less calls, and it still wouldn't have been worth it for the constant mental run-through of how I'd been done wrong. It was hurting me, because during the time I was dealing with it, underlying all the things I was doing, I felt stressed and upset by this petty little conflict. I don't have much money, but I don't need money as much as I need peace of mind.
I'm not going to understanding from a company, and bunches of their support staff, who are paid to stick with the screw-over line, and told not to escalate things even when there has been a problem.
That should be pretty obvious example. Thing is, some individuals are just as oblivious. You're just as unlikely to get recognition, acceptance, understanding.
So, do I just wait? Let time gradully heal the wound and in the meantime feel frustrated? Still occasionally think with annoyance about "that time I got screwed over" (and how I'm not letting that happen again?).
No.
I forgave them.
I didn't need to tell them, I just did it in my head. In my attention, in my emotions towards them.
I renounced my anger and resentment against them.
When I felt resentful, I was giving my energy to them. And it was utterly wasted.
I'm talking about my mental attention, my time, and my physical energy levels - feeling those negative emotions caused me stress, leaving me physically a little more exhausted than I was before.
So I let it go.
I used a little visualisation -
I imagined 'the company' (the collection of people involved in it, as one concept) and myself, floating in space. I imagined a little cord between us, that was all twisted up like a phone cord, that I was tightly holding onto on my end, and that I was draining energy from me. If you're doing this, just allow whatever conception you have of the cord to exist (like, it may be different sizes for different people in your life. Twisted, springy, or dirty etc).
I relaxed. I imagined relaxing my hold on the cord. I imagined sending bright light down the cord, clearing out all the grime/yucky feelings I had before. I imagined sending goodwill & compassion through the cord.
When I felt like I was done, I allowed the cord to gently unwind, and they drifed further and further away, growing smaller, and smaller, and I let go.
The cord didn't entirely disappear, just grew very thin, a hair whisp, which I guess represents to me the interconnections I have with all the people & things in my society, but they were no longer visible.
Althernately, you could just imagine letting it go, or cutting it if you want to release all contact.
It took me less than 5 minutes to do this, and once I did - I was over it.
I felt miles better than I had 5 minutes earlier. I didn't feel annoyed anymore, it was over, and my attention no longer drifted to them.
I've gone this exercise with someone I still wanted to have dealings with, after sending all the compassion down, I unwounding the twists and that involved them drifting further away, but that's what I needed (an ex-partner). The friend who suggested this visualisation just untwists it without increasing the distance.
It's just a way of getting your mind to reframe your relationship with someone/something - It's kind of a visualised, emotionally focussed version of the principle shown in this study: http://scienceblogs.com/neurophilosophy/2008/11/distorting_the_body_image_affects_perception_of_pain.php
See also Buddhist techniques for letting go of attachment (attachment is the source of all suffering - forgiveness is letting go of 'attachment'), and building compassion.
See also another more verbal method of dealing with unpleasant inter-personal feelings (aka things that require forgiveness), is using these questions and turnarounds. I am not endorsing any other books, or media from this author, I've just used the info as presented on that one page occasionally, and found it useful.
posted by Elysum at 3:26 PM on December 2, 2008 [3 favorites]
Best answer: One of the things that I feel people get bogged down in with the idea of forgive and forget is the emotional definition of forgetting. It isn't so much that you forget that something happened and now it is completely erased from your memory, but that what happened doesn't effect you emotionally anymore.
For example, I was burned pretty badly in a friendship about two years ago. I don't feel comfortable in giving details, but it was a pretty horrific ending to a friendship that had changed my life in many ways. I didn't forgive the friend very recently, when I saw them for the first time since the horrific ending. I realized I had forgiven them because the event doesn't have the emotional weight it had a year ago or even six months ago. It hasn't been erased from my memory, but I can talk about it with other people and not feel like crying.
As far as speeding up that process so that the damage done doesn't have emotional weight anymore, I don't know how to do that. In my case, I think that I could have forgiven this person six months ago if I had seen them. It was the act of seeing through body language, words, and actions that they were rather embarrassed about how they treated me.
I've also gotten much better at forgiving other people for smaller things ever since I joined a Unitarian Universalist Chruch, where I get a little dose of how to practice non-attachment and forgiveness every Sunday. But I think any sort of activity that gets you actively thinking about other people such as volunteering, makes it easier for forgive. I find that since my world is less "why are these things happening to me?" focused, it is much easier to forgive.
posted by JustKeepSwimming at 4:12 PM on December 2, 2008
For example, I was burned pretty badly in a friendship about two years ago. I don't feel comfortable in giving details, but it was a pretty horrific ending to a friendship that had changed my life in many ways. I didn't forgive the friend very recently, when I saw them for the first time since the horrific ending. I realized I had forgiven them because the event doesn't have the emotional weight it had a year ago or even six months ago. It hasn't been erased from my memory, but I can talk about it with other people and not feel like crying.
As far as speeding up that process so that the damage done doesn't have emotional weight anymore, I don't know how to do that. In my case, I think that I could have forgiven this person six months ago if I had seen them. It was the act of seeing through body language, words, and actions that they were rather embarrassed about how they treated me.
I've also gotten much better at forgiving other people for smaller things ever since I joined a Unitarian Universalist Chruch, where I get a little dose of how to practice non-attachment and forgiveness every Sunday. But I think any sort of activity that gets you actively thinking about other people such as volunteering, makes it easier for forgive. I find that since my world is less "why are these things happening to me?" focused, it is much easier to forgive.
posted by JustKeepSwimming at 4:12 PM on December 2, 2008
Forgiveness is simply not wanting to punish someone for their actions. Forgive and forget is in my opinion usually wrong. If someone slaps your face, you can forgive them by not wanting to punish them for their action, but it would be wise to remember that that person can be violent and forgetting would just mean losing some hard earned knowledge. The best book that I know is Forgiveness is a Choice by Robert Enright.
posted by calumet43 at 5:07 PM on December 2, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by calumet43 at 5:07 PM on December 2, 2008 [1 favorite]
"The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget." - Thomas Szasz, The Second Sin (1973) "Personal Conduct"
posted by terranova at 9:07 PM on December 2, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by terranova at 9:07 PM on December 2, 2008 [1 favorite]
Best answer: I can only speak from personal experience.
For me, it's a combination of time + conscious decision. Time helps a lot, but ultimately, you have to decide that you're no longer going to be angry at this person. This can actually be very liberating. You'll find yourself thinking thoughts like, "I don't have to avoid this person anymore, because I'm not angry at them," or "I'm not going to hold a grudge against them, because it's not worth the effort."
I used to have this internal thing where I was afraid that if I forgave someone, they'd have some sort of power over me and I wouldn't be able to prevent them from screwing me over again. THIS IS FALSE. VERY VERY FALSE. You have total control over what you do and how you live your life. If anything, you now know more about the person, so they're less likely than ever to be able to screw you over.
Really, the fact is that the people in this life who will fuck you over are a bunch of pikers. Small-time emotional criminals. They'll get they're comeuppance just like anyone else. You were unlucky enough to fall into their trap, but you're a smarter animal now and better able to avoid their snares. No need to recoil at the sight of a vine hanging from a tree just because it could be a snare. Most of the time, a vine is just a vine, and life is too damned short.
posted by Afroblanco at 9:42 PM on December 2, 2008 [2 favorites]
For me, it's a combination of time + conscious decision. Time helps a lot, but ultimately, you have to decide that you're no longer going to be angry at this person. This can actually be very liberating. You'll find yourself thinking thoughts like, "I don't have to avoid this person anymore, because I'm not angry at them," or "I'm not going to hold a grudge against them, because it's not worth the effort."
I used to have this internal thing where I was afraid that if I forgave someone, they'd have some sort of power over me and I wouldn't be able to prevent them from screwing me over again. THIS IS FALSE. VERY VERY FALSE. You have total control over what you do and how you live your life. If anything, you now know more about the person, so they're less likely than ever to be able to screw you over.
Really, the fact is that the people in this life who will fuck you over are a bunch of pikers. Small-time emotional criminals. They'll get they're comeuppance just like anyone else. You were unlucky enough to fall into their trap, but you're a smarter animal now and better able to avoid their snares. No need to recoil at the sight of a vine hanging from a tree just because it could be a snare. Most of the time, a vine is just a vine, and life is too damned short.
posted by Afroblanco at 9:42 PM on December 2, 2008 [2 favorites]
1. Forgiveness is for you. You aren't going to get revenge on them by being mad at them.
1B. You wont change the other person by being mad at them. You also wont change them by forgiving them, but you will feel better.
2. Not forgiving can cause problems with anger, awkward situations, jealousy.. even physical symptoms (poor sleeping, anyone? :) )
3. In a sense, if you are still upset over what someone did, they are in control/affecting you. Forgiving them switches the power back to you
4. Forgetting is... poorly worded. it is sort of like a scar. it will always be there, a reminder of the past. What you want is to get it where it dosen't hurt, where you can look at it and be 'oh yeah, that happened, way back when.' Not the much more 'oh my god, that happened and the bleeding and screaming and hate-trauma.'
Pretty much what everybody else has already said :)
posted by Jacen at 10:57 PM on December 2, 2008
1B. You wont change the other person by being mad at them. You also wont change them by forgiving them, but you will feel better.
2. Not forgiving can cause problems with anger, awkward situations, jealousy.. even physical symptoms (poor sleeping, anyone? :) )
3. In a sense, if you are still upset over what someone did, they are in control/affecting you. Forgiving them switches the power back to you
4. Forgetting is... poorly worded. it is sort of like a scar. it will always be there, a reminder of the past. What you want is to get it where it dosen't hurt, where you can look at it and be 'oh yeah, that happened, way back when.' Not the much more 'oh my god, that happened and the bleeding and screaming and hate-trauma.'
Pretty much what everybody else has already said :)
posted by Jacen at 10:57 PM on December 2, 2008
For me, forgiveness is pretty instantaneous. I think what I do is say to myself, "that's just what they do," and then focus on what I can do about it. For example, I'd be mad about the company situation above, but then I'd shrug my shoulders and think, "whatever, of course they'd do that; they're a greedy company who has figured out sneaky ways to keep every cent. Just like every other company, pretty much. Wasn't I going to cancel my cell phone anyway? Anyway, let's go have a beer." Or "yeah, of course that client said something mean and spiteful. But I forgot to do my protective ritual before talking to her this time! Next time..." (Yes, I do have a silly protective ritual that somehow makes me feel immune to anything this person might say.) The only time I've had trouble forgiving is when there was still an opening through which hurt would arrive or when I didn't know that I could protect myself in the future. You might try reminding yourself "you never have to see them again," if that applies.
posted by salvia at 12:01 AM on December 3, 2008
posted by salvia at 12:01 AM on December 3, 2008
I'm with everyone who says it's more about putting the issue in a place where it doesn't cause you emotional harm anymore. "Forgiving" is often not exactly the right word for this, and "forgetting" is almost never the right word (at least in my experience).
posted by Nattie at 11:28 PM on December 3, 2008
posted by Nattie at 11:28 PM on December 3, 2008
Eva Kor, a holocaust survivor and Mengele experimentee made a controversial decision (documented in this film) to forgive the Nazis, who were responsible for her internment at Auschwitz where she was experimented on like a lab rat, who were responsible for the deaths of her entire family. In her words:
"At first I was adamant that I could never forgive Dr. Mengele but then I realised I had the power now, the power to forgive. It was my right to use it. No one could take it away.
...
Forgiveness is really nothing more than an act of self-healing and self-empowerment. I call it a miracle medicine. It is free, it works and has no side effects.
I believe with every fibre of my being that every human being has the right to live without the pain of the past. For most people there is a big obstacle to forgiveness because society expects revenge. It seems we need to honour our victims but I always wonder if my dead loved ones would want me to live with pain and anger until the end of my life. Some survivors do not want to let go of the pain. They call me a traitor and accuse me of talking in their name. I have never done this. Forgiveness is as personal as chemotherapy – I do it for myself."
That is how you forgive someone. By realizing that it is for your own good that you forgive. Not some moral imperative, not because we're all human and make mistakes, but the need to get on with your own life and live.
You do it for yourself.
posted by Ndwright at 10:21 PM on December 8, 2008
"At first I was adamant that I could never forgive Dr. Mengele but then I realised I had the power now, the power to forgive. It was my right to use it. No one could take it away.
...
Forgiveness is really nothing more than an act of self-healing and self-empowerment. I call it a miracle medicine. It is free, it works and has no side effects.
I believe with every fibre of my being that every human being has the right to live without the pain of the past. For most people there is a big obstacle to forgiveness because society expects revenge. It seems we need to honour our victims but I always wonder if my dead loved ones would want me to live with pain and anger until the end of my life. Some survivors do not want to let go of the pain. They call me a traitor and accuse me of talking in their name. I have never done this. Forgiveness is as personal as chemotherapy – I do it for myself."
That is how you forgive someone. By realizing that it is for your own good that you forgive. Not some moral imperative, not because we're all human and make mistakes, but the need to get on with your own life and live.
You do it for yourself.
posted by Ndwright at 10:21 PM on December 8, 2008
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posted by sonic meat machine at 1:29 PM on December 2, 2008 [2 favorites]