RelationshipFilter: How do you tell a new boyfriend that you think his apartment is dirty
November 26, 2008 11:12 AM Subscribe
How do you complain about something in a way that's not a put down?
I have been dating this guy for a month. Overall things are going well, but I have been to his apartment and think it needs a clean. I'm no neat freak, and on the whole the apartment is tidy enough, but it's pretty grubby and needs a good clean. But how do you bring this up with a new partner without them feeling judged as a lesser human being? One friend suggested I try to make light of it, like a clean apartment is my own psychosis, and this is more about my own preference than about a problem he has. Suggestions?
I have been dating this guy for a month. Overall things are going well, but I have been to his apartment and think it needs a clean. I'm no neat freak, and on the whole the apartment is tidy enough, but it's pretty grubby and needs a good clean. But how do you bring this up with a new partner without them feeling judged as a lesser human being? One friend suggested I try to make light of it, like a clean apartment is my own psychosis, and this is more about my own preference than about a problem he has. Suggestions?
Are you trying to get him to clean his place more often, or are you just trying to get it clean (and are thus willing to do it yourself)?
The former seems to require a full conversation and, maybe, the idea that you can change him---dangerous territory, which I assume is why you asked the question. I can't think of a kind, straightforward version of, "your place is gross, can we please clean it?" but maybe someone else here can.
You might be able to successfully pull off the latter, piece by piece. One time when you're over, do the dishes and wipe down the sink. Clean the tub real quick before you shower. Clean the stove before you make dinner. Basically, take 5-10 minutes to do a small chore when you get the chance and don't really make a big thing of it. Assuming he notices, hopefully he'll a) appreciate it and/or b) participate. Don't do this if you're going to resent the time it takes though; only do this if you just want stuff to be cleaner.
Be sure not to overstep your bounds and organize any of his personal stuff unless you're sure he really doesn't care. I'd stick to things that are in plain sight.
posted by juliplease at 11:27 AM on November 26, 2008 [3 favorites]
The former seems to require a full conversation and, maybe, the idea that you can change him---dangerous territory, which I assume is why you asked the question. I can't think of a kind, straightforward version of, "your place is gross, can we please clean it?" but maybe someone else here can.
You might be able to successfully pull off the latter, piece by piece. One time when you're over, do the dishes and wipe down the sink. Clean the tub real quick before you shower. Clean the stove before you make dinner. Basically, take 5-10 minutes to do a small chore when you get the chance and don't really make a big thing of it. Assuming he notices, hopefully he'll a) appreciate it and/or b) participate. Don't do this if you're going to resent the time it takes though; only do this if you just want stuff to be cleaner.
Be sure not to overstep your bounds and organize any of his personal stuff unless you're sure he really doesn't care. I'd stick to things that are in plain sight.
posted by juliplease at 11:27 AM on November 26, 2008 [3 favorites]
If you've been dating for a month, this may not be any of your business, unless it's actually affecting your actions - like, you don't want to go over there because it's so gross. If that's the case, then just tell him that if you're going to spend the night, the shower needs to be cleaner, and you're happy to make a project of it this weekend.
If not - if it is just sort of a general moral judgment about acceptable standards of cleanliness - then bringing it up would ensure that you'd never get invited back, if you were dating me. Proceed with caution.
posted by restless_nomad at 11:30 AM on November 26, 2008 [2 favorites]
If not - if it is just sort of a general moral judgment about acceptable standards of cleanliness - then bringing it up would ensure that you'd never get invited back, if you were dating me. Proceed with caution.
posted by restless_nomad at 11:30 AM on November 26, 2008 [2 favorites]
Oh. Yeah. I really, really would not bring this up to him if you don't want to freak the guy out. You aren't living there. It's his problem, and if he doesn't think it's a problem, then it's not yours either.
If, however, you must mention this to him - like if you're afraid for your own health or the health of mankind as you know it - lightly teasing him is probably the best way. Emphasis on lightly.
posted by katillathehun at 11:38 AM on November 26, 2008 [1 favorite]
If, however, you must mention this to him - like if you're afraid for your own health or the health of mankind as you know it - lightly teasing him is probably the best way. Emphasis on lightly.
posted by katillathehun at 11:38 AM on November 26, 2008 [1 favorite]
Nthing amtho, you need to be clear with yourself as to exactly why his place being a tip is a problem to you. If you suffer from asthma or allergies or something, where a clean house makes a difference to your ability to breathe, then by all means bring it up. If it's simply because your ew-meter is pinging, that's more difficult.
I'd stay far, far away from the suggestion that you do the cleaning yourself. It's your boyfriend's place, and he has a right to keep it in the condition he sees fit. Ask yourself how you'd feel if someone came in to your place and rearranged the contents of your cupboards because it didn't suit them.
In sum, unless there's a legitimate health reason driving your desire to see your boyfriend's apartment more tidy, I'm afraid the answer is "suck it up".
posted by LN at 11:40 AM on November 26, 2008
I'd stay far, far away from the suggestion that you do the cleaning yourself. It's your boyfriend's place, and he has a right to keep it in the condition he sees fit. Ask yourself how you'd feel if someone came in to your place and rearranged the contents of your cupboards because it didn't suit them.
In sum, unless there's a legitimate health reason driving your desire to see your boyfriend's apartment more tidy, I'm afraid the answer is "suck it up".
posted by LN at 11:40 AM on November 26, 2008
I'd recommend not cleaning or picking up or doing anything along those lines. It's his apartment and his life. You are not his maid.
If you need to say something, use very specific language to point out one thing that has caused a problem for you ("I slipped and almost fell in the shower" because the shower has a coat of slime). Otherwise, view his grubbiness as a clue to his preferred lifestyle and file it away for future reference if you start thinking of him in the long term.
posted by PatoPata at 11:42 AM on November 26, 2008 [5 favorites]
If you need to say something, use very specific language to point out one thing that has caused a problem for you ("I slipped and almost fell in the shower" because the shower has a coat of slime). Otherwise, view his grubbiness as a clue to his preferred lifestyle and file it away for future reference if you start thinking of him in the long term.
posted by PatoPata at 11:42 AM on November 26, 2008 [5 favorites]
Maybe for christmas or birthday or whatever, in addition to some other presents, you give him a gift certificate for a house cleaning service under the pretense that everyone loves a clean house but no one wants to clean it?
Could get him addicted to the service, which is probably the only way you're going to get what you want because him magically changing how clean he keeps his house probably ain't gonna happen.
posted by milarepa at 11:42 AM on November 26, 2008 [2 favorites]
Could get him addicted to the service, which is probably the only way you're going to get what you want because him magically changing how clean he keeps his house probably ain't gonna happen.
posted by milarepa at 11:42 AM on November 26, 2008 [2 favorites]
What about getting him to come to your place more? He may figure out that the reason you don't go to his place more often is because it's a pig sty. Then again...you may have to outright tell him "let's hang at my place until you can tidy yours up."
posted by LightMayo at 11:50 AM on November 26, 2008
posted by LightMayo at 11:50 AM on November 26, 2008
But how do you bring this up with a new partner without them feeling judged as a lesser human being?
Why do you need to bring it up?
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 11:57 AM on November 26, 2008 [3 favorites]
Why do you need to bring it up?
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 11:57 AM on November 26, 2008 [3 favorites]
Can you walk through the apartment? Is it free of pests like rats and cockroaches? Can you eat and sleep in the apartment without gagging at the sight of something? If the answer to these is yes, leave him alone. It's his place.
If the answer to any of these is no, then start hanging out somewhere else. My husband was an absolute slob when we met (I couldn't answer yes to the first and third question above). He was really super busy, so that was part of the sloppiness, but mostly he was just used to it.
Basically, I told him that it was difficult for me to enjoy sex when the room was so messy and there was garbage underfoot (true). Then I offered to help clean. That worked.
posted by desjardins at 12:01 PM on November 26, 2008 [2 favorites]
If the answer to any of these is no, then start hanging out somewhere else. My husband was an absolute slob when we met (I couldn't answer yes to the first and third question above). He was really super busy, so that was part of the sloppiness, but mostly he was just used to it.
Basically, I told him that it was difficult for me to enjoy sex when the room was so messy and there was garbage underfoot (true). Then I offered to help clean. That worked.
posted by desjardins at 12:01 PM on November 26, 2008 [2 favorites]
I cannot believe people are freaking out about this. How is she a neat freak if she says that the place is clean but grubby? I'm NOT a neat freak, and there's crap all over my living room, but you could eat off my floor, and my bathroom and kitchen are scrubbed within an inch of their life.
There's a big difference between clutter and dirt. she's talking about dirt. Which is a concern if she's spending any time there. I had a good female friend who just didn't see dirt. She would offer to let me spend the weekends at her place in the guest room, which had about six inches of dust hanging off of the ceiling fan. I saw it once and knew there was no way I could sleep there.
I'm not sure how that makes me a "neat freak". That was just plain nasty. I didn't ask her to clean it, but I did politely refuse to stay over.
If she's dating someone, which means she's potentially thinking about taking off her clothes and spending the night, grubby IS her concern, and she's entitled to set some standards about the environment in which she's willing to get naked. I don't know, in my circle of life it's perfectly acceptable to tell a guy that his apartment is pretty grubby if he's expecting me to go up there and hang out for any length of time. It's a reasonable request.
If I'm hearing you right, You're not asking him to change something about himself, you're asking him to scrub the toilet, wipe up the urine splashes around the floor, and make sure there's toilet paper around. How this becomes a discussion in which he'll then be entitled to ask her to change something about her that he doesn't like, I do not for the life of me understand.
It may not be "a chosen lifestyle". It may just be that it's been like that because they don't care much or they can't be bothered. I've seen many a single guy become Merry Maids once they started getting laid on a regular basis and they realized that girls do not like when the bathroom sink has a layer of grime on it.
Do not offer to clean. Do not offer to help him clean. Do not get him a maid service, for the love of god. Do not "make it a project". When I have guests, I run a vacuum, I make sure there aren't any dirty dishes in the sink, I pick up the shoe collection cluttering the hallway, I close the door on the spare bedroom that's got crap in it. And if someone was staying over, I would make double sure there were no crumbs in the couch, that there were clean sheets available, that the bathroom was clean enough to show my mom.
It's called BASIC COURTESY, not some kind of lifestyle change.
You can decline invitations to hang out there, and if he asks you why, you can say, "You know, when I used the bathroom the last time I was there, I didn't feel comfortable," which is true and not a judgement. Hopefully he'll get a clue from that. If you really like this guy, and things move forward, you can get more specific the next time he asks why you don't want to spend the night. Generally, that will achieve the desired result.
(Of course I am assuming that we're talking about normal stuff in a young single guy's apartment and you're not actually obsessing about a layer of dust on the molding above the closet door.)
posted by micawber at 12:07 PM on November 26, 2008 [7 favorites]
There's a big difference between clutter and dirt. she's talking about dirt. Which is a concern if she's spending any time there. I had a good female friend who just didn't see dirt. She would offer to let me spend the weekends at her place in the guest room, which had about six inches of dust hanging off of the ceiling fan. I saw it once and knew there was no way I could sleep there.
I'm not sure how that makes me a "neat freak". That was just plain nasty. I didn't ask her to clean it, but I did politely refuse to stay over.
If she's dating someone, which means she's potentially thinking about taking off her clothes and spending the night, grubby IS her concern, and she's entitled to set some standards about the environment in which she's willing to get naked. I don't know, in my circle of life it's perfectly acceptable to tell a guy that his apartment is pretty grubby if he's expecting me to go up there and hang out for any length of time. It's a reasonable request.
If I'm hearing you right, You're not asking him to change something about himself, you're asking him to scrub the toilet, wipe up the urine splashes around the floor, and make sure there's toilet paper around. How this becomes a discussion in which he'll then be entitled to ask her to change something about her that he doesn't like, I do not for the life of me understand.
It may not be "a chosen lifestyle". It may just be that it's been like that because they don't care much or they can't be bothered. I've seen many a single guy become Merry Maids once they started getting laid on a regular basis and they realized that girls do not like when the bathroom sink has a layer of grime on it.
Do not offer to clean. Do not offer to help him clean. Do not get him a maid service, for the love of god. Do not "make it a project". When I have guests, I run a vacuum, I make sure there aren't any dirty dishes in the sink, I pick up the shoe collection cluttering the hallway, I close the door on the spare bedroom that's got crap in it. And if someone was staying over, I would make double sure there were no crumbs in the couch, that there were clean sheets available, that the bathroom was clean enough to show my mom.
It's called BASIC COURTESY, not some kind of lifestyle change.
You can decline invitations to hang out there, and if he asks you why, you can say, "You know, when I used the bathroom the last time I was there, I didn't feel comfortable," which is true and not a judgement. Hopefully he'll get a clue from that. If you really like this guy, and things move forward, you can get more specific the next time he asks why you don't want to spend the night. Generally, that will achieve the desired result.
(Of course I am assuming that we're talking about normal stuff in a young single guy's apartment and you're not actually obsessing about a layer of dust on the molding above the closet door.)
posted by micawber at 12:07 PM on November 26, 2008 [7 favorites]
needs a good clean
No, you may want it cleaner, but the apartment itself does not intrinsically need a good clean. Apartments are inanimate and don't have needs, and neither party, you or the boyfriend, need it to be cleaner in a sense of real suffering or dying if it doesn't get cleaned. I don't mean to be pedantic about your word choice, but I do think it's an important distinction, because once you realize this is about your own wants, you can stop seeing it as a value judgement and more of a difference in opinion.
You may have been raised to believe that cleanliness is next to godliness or whatever, but not everyone else shares that belief. Some people believe a little grubbiness doesn't matter. Others believe it actually helps build up people's immune systems. Whatever. My point is that there is no right or wrong here.
My own personal opinion is that this is his apartment and you don't, one month in, get to have a say in how he keeps his apartment. If you do try to have a say, no matter how you put it, I think you're going to come across as controlling and picky. If I were you, I'd try to use this as a way of practicing tolerance and living with differences. Certainly you'll discover a lot more of them if the relationship progresses, and the best way forward is deciding whether you can accept those differences or not - rather than trying to change the guy's behavior each time to whatever you would prefer it to be.
posted by hazyjane at 12:11 PM on November 26, 2008 [3 favorites]
No, you may want it cleaner, but the apartment itself does not intrinsically need a good clean. Apartments are inanimate and don't have needs, and neither party, you or the boyfriend, need it to be cleaner in a sense of real suffering or dying if it doesn't get cleaned. I don't mean to be pedantic about your word choice, but I do think it's an important distinction, because once you realize this is about your own wants, you can stop seeing it as a value judgement and more of a difference in opinion.
You may have been raised to believe that cleanliness is next to godliness or whatever, but not everyone else shares that belief. Some people believe a little grubbiness doesn't matter. Others believe it actually helps build up people's immune systems. Whatever. My point is that there is no right or wrong here.
My own personal opinion is that this is his apartment and you don't, one month in, get to have a say in how he keeps his apartment. If you do try to have a say, no matter how you put it, I think you're going to come across as controlling and picky. If I were you, I'd try to use this as a way of practicing tolerance and living with differences. Certainly you'll discover a lot more of them if the relationship progresses, and the best way forward is deciding whether you can accept those differences or not - rather than trying to change the guy's behavior each time to whatever you would prefer it to be.
posted by hazyjane at 12:11 PM on November 26, 2008 [3 favorites]
I'm not sure how that makes me a "neat freak".
It's not about you.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 12:18 PM on November 26, 2008 [6 favorites]
It's not about you.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 12:18 PM on November 26, 2008 [6 favorites]
be prepared for him to ask you to change something about yourself.
Or...figure out something you'd like him to do for you (or help you do) that would take half a day's work (or whatever). Put up some shelves, chop firewood, clear out your attic/basement, wash your car, etc. Then you can offer him a straight trade. Or just ask him to do it, and when he's done insist that you must show your gratitude by giving his place a spring cleaning. If he says "well, I'd rather you _______" you can say "I'm so happy with the new shelves I'm going to clean your house AND _________"
posted by K.P. at 12:22 PM on November 26, 2008 [1 favorite]
Or...figure out something you'd like him to do for you (or help you do) that would take half a day's work (or whatever). Put up some shelves, chop firewood, clear out your attic/basement, wash your car, etc. Then you can offer him a straight trade. Or just ask him to do it, and when he's done insist that you must show your gratitude by giving his place a spring cleaning. If he says "well, I'd rather you _______" you can say "I'm so happy with the new shelves I'm going to clean your house AND _________"
posted by K.P. at 12:22 PM on November 26, 2008 [1 favorite]
You've been dating him a month, and already want to change him?
You were invited to his home as a guest. As a host, he tries to keep things presentable. As a guest, you do not criticize his home. If a guest criticizes a host about their housekeeping skills, they usually find themselves not invited over anymore.
posted by Houstonian at 12:31 PM on November 26, 2008 [3 favorites]
You were invited to his home as a guest. As a host, he tries to keep things presentable. As a guest, you do not criticize his home. If a guest criticizes a host about their housekeeping skills, they usually find themselves not invited over anymore.
posted by Houstonian at 12:31 PM on November 26, 2008 [3 favorites]
"Okay, look. I like things a bit cleaner than you do, I think. You should know, I'd be more comfortable in your house if it were cleaner, like mine is. I can live with everything as it is, of course, but I thought it would be okay to let you know that preference of mine. When I'm over, I keep wanting to do it myself, but that seems totally weird! Okay, I confessed!"
Then see what he says. Be ready to clean together or never bring it up again, depending on his response.
posted by Ambrosia Voyeur at 12:55 PM on November 26, 2008 [3 favorites]
Then see what he says. Be ready to clean together or never bring it up again, depending on his response.
posted by Ambrosia Voyeur at 12:55 PM on November 26, 2008 [3 favorites]
I have a friend whose apartment is pretty grimy and I'm able to tease her about it only because she thinks I'm a major neat freak. I don't mind hanging out there, but I wouldn't want to sleep there.
She was dating a friend of mine who admitted to me later that one of the reasons he ended the relationship was because her place was so gross and he hated spending time there. I had no idea he felt this way and we had a good time talking about all our favorite gross-out spots in the apartment. But, I also felt sad that he couldn't have just said something to her and maybe salvaged the relationship.
posted by jrichards at 1:05 PM on November 26, 2008 [2 favorites]
She was dating a friend of mine who admitted to me later that one of the reasons he ended the relationship was because her place was so gross and he hated spending time there. I had no idea he felt this way and we had a good time talking about all our favorite gross-out spots in the apartment. But, I also felt sad that he couldn't have just said something to her and maybe salvaged the relationship.
posted by jrichards at 1:05 PM on November 26, 2008 [2 favorites]
"Dude, this place is a sty." This works much better around my place than the guilt of watching my girlfriend clean, even if she says she "just likes to do it."
posted by rhizome at 1:07 PM on November 26, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by rhizome at 1:07 PM on November 26, 2008 [1 favorite]
and if he doesn't think it's a problem, then it's not yours either.
once you realize this is about your own wants, you can stop seeing it as a value judgement and more of a difference in opinion.
Ridiculous.
It is a value judgement. A correct one. And there's no opinion about filth.
Tell him to clean it, ASAP. You're not "changing his behavior". It's common courtesy.
posted by Zambrano at 1:21 PM on November 26, 2008
once you realize this is about your own wants, you can stop seeing it as a value judgement and more of a difference in opinion.
Ridiculous.
It is a value judgement. A correct one. And there's no opinion about filth.
Tell him to clean it, ASAP. You're not "changing his behavior". It's common courtesy.
posted by Zambrano at 1:21 PM on November 26, 2008
Thirding that she's not in any way in the wrong here. If he wants a girl to sleep over at any point in the future, he's going to -scrub-. Dirt is not a lifestyle choice, it's disgusting, and there's nothing to be accepting about when it comes to living in grubby apartments. He may feel fine living in such conditions, but part of being a good date/boyfriend is realizing that most people prefer cleanliness, especially if they're going to be staying for more than a few hours.
Tease him lightly, joke about it, bring it up directly if he doesn't take hints, but don't feel like you have to put up with his mess.
posted by Bakuun at 1:36 PM on November 26, 2008 [2 favorites]
Tease him lightly, joke about it, bring it up directly if he doesn't take hints, but don't feel like you have to put up with his mess.
posted by Bakuun at 1:36 PM on November 26, 2008 [2 favorites]
And there's no opinion about filth.
Of course there is. In her opinion, his apartment is dirty, we have only her assessment of how dirty the apartment is. We don't have photographs or even verbal descriptions of why she thinks it's grubby. Clearly, in his opinion the apartment was 'new girlfriend clean' and really, as bachelor pads go, thats probably as clean as its going to get. (excepting maybe a visit from his mum).
Some people are neat freaks, some people are complete germophobes, some people are complete slobs and oblivious to all dirt and mess. We have no idea where the OP and her new boyfriend fall in that spectrum but everyone has their own opinion/threshold on what constitutes 'unclean' (she also didn't say it was filthy, just 'pretty grubby')
At the end of the day, its his apartment, you don't get a say in how he keeps it, only in whether you want to stay there. But honestly, unless its unsanitary, I wouldn't mention it, particularly so early in the relationship.
You don't mention what in particular bothers you about the apartment but it could be nothing to do with his cleaning skills, some rented places are pretty grubby to start with (and irrevocably so without real professional deep cleaning and a new paint job)
posted by missmagenta at 2:09 PM on November 26, 2008
Of course there is. In her opinion, his apartment is dirty, we have only her assessment of how dirty the apartment is. We don't have photographs or even verbal descriptions of why she thinks it's grubby. Clearly, in his opinion the apartment was 'new girlfriend clean' and really, as bachelor pads go, thats probably as clean as its going to get. (excepting maybe a visit from his mum).
Some people are neat freaks, some people are complete germophobes, some people are complete slobs and oblivious to all dirt and mess. We have no idea where the OP and her new boyfriend fall in that spectrum but everyone has their own opinion/threshold on what constitutes 'unclean' (she also didn't say it was filthy, just 'pretty grubby')
At the end of the day, its his apartment, you don't get a say in how he keeps it, only in whether you want to stay there. But honestly, unless its unsanitary, I wouldn't mention it, particularly so early in the relationship.
You don't mention what in particular bothers you about the apartment but it could be nothing to do with his cleaning skills, some rented places are pretty grubby to start with (and irrevocably so without real professional deep cleaning and a new paint job)
posted by missmagenta at 2:09 PM on November 26, 2008
Response by poster: The apartment is reasonably tidy. It's well, grimy, like it's not been mopped, wiped for a very, very long time, if at all in the years he's lived there. So not just floating dust bunnies here and there and dusty bookshelves, that's not bad, but like dirt and build-up in corners and along edges. I don't need spotless all the time, but I would feel more comfortable if it was reasonably free of grit and grime...
posted by Muffy at 2:29 PM on November 26, 2008
posted by Muffy at 2:29 PM on November 26, 2008
Someone mentioned splashes of urine on the floor - that's something you should comment on. "Corners and edges," on the other hand, are not worth bringing up this early unless you want to risk looking picky and judgmental.
posted by cranberrymonger at 2:52 PM on November 26, 2008
posted by cranberrymonger at 2:52 PM on November 26, 2008
I love coming to see you "but I would feel more comfortable [here] if it was reasonably free of grit and grime..."
job done?
posted by patricio at 2:53 PM on November 26, 2008
job done?
posted by patricio at 2:53 PM on November 26, 2008
I think the best answer to this issue is that you are having a problem with the cleanliness, not him. So you can deal with it.
Therefore, I think you should ask him if he would mind if you cleaned up a bit while you were there. He doesn't need to feel bad, you'd just relax better if you could wipe down the counter, pick up the garbage from the table, etc.
That alone may encourage him to clean, but the key point is that you can fix this yourself. I have a very good married couple who have done this exact thing. The wife is much less tolerant for dirt, so she very early in the relationship took over all of the cleaning. She gets her clean house, her husband is not nagged to clean it.. it all works out well.
Some might say it's not a fair division of labor, but each person is getting what they want.
posted by ceberon at 3:04 PM on November 26, 2008 [1 favorite]
Therefore, I think you should ask him if he would mind if you cleaned up a bit while you were there. He doesn't need to feel bad, you'd just relax better if you could wipe down the counter, pick up the garbage from the table, etc.
That alone may encourage him to clean, but the key point is that you can fix this yourself. I have a very good married couple who have done this exact thing. The wife is much less tolerant for dirt, so she very early in the relationship took over all of the cleaning. She gets her clean house, her husband is not nagged to clean it.. it all works out well.
Some might say it's not a fair division of labor, but each person is getting what they want.
posted by ceberon at 3:04 PM on November 26, 2008 [1 favorite]
I have to admit that I'm a female member of the kind of dirty club. Not like, half eaten food in my bedroom dirty. But I don't often dust my TV, for instance, and that's often covered. And my sink in my bathroom isn't clean, in anybody's estimation. I don't clean my toilet as often unless there's somebody coming over, and even then only if I remember. But it is my apartment and henceforth I live there how I choose to live.
And I think I would probably take it pretty personally if somebody told me, especially somebody I'd only been dating for a month, "your apartment is gross." My response would most likely be "then don't come over."
posted by dithmer at 3:11 PM on November 26, 2008 [1 favorite]
And I think I would probably take it pretty personally if somebody told me, especially somebody I'd only been dating for a month, "your apartment is gross." My response would most likely be "then don't come over."
posted by dithmer at 3:11 PM on November 26, 2008 [1 favorite]
The general rule is that it's incredibly rude to criticize someone's home when you're invited to visit - and I don't see how a month of dating trumps that rule. I think it is ok to ask people to accommodate your weird quirks - if you take responsibility for them. If you can't relax and enjoy yourself in someone else's house if it has grimy corners, than I think that qualifies as a quirk, and you should tell him that you're weird that way and offer to clean them up. It's his house, but it's your issue.
posted by moxiedoll at 3:12 PM on November 26, 2008
posted by moxiedoll at 3:12 PM on November 26, 2008
Always suggest that everything you guys do is not at his place. Maybe he never gets the hint, maybe you get tired of it and just put up with the grime, maybe he figures out that once we quit living in caves we started wiping things down occasionally since the rains don't come slopping up the foothills anymore.
Not sure why so many people suddenly had their shoulders up around their ears over your question. As a human being in a first world country taking part in an elective, adult relationship, you do get to be somewhat selective in the environment in which you get down and dirty. Some grit and grime is going to happen and, I think, is healthy for your immune system. But when things look sticky or coated or thick, then it's time to put Mr. Miyagi's training program in play and start scrubbing some stuff.
Don't clean up his place. Instead, let him be around when you're cleaning up your place so he can see the difference between "lived in" and "I'm not touching that".
If you can tell that he's a busy guy who just doesn't have the time, or a coddled guy who never learned to take care of his personal environment, maybe it would be a sweet gesture to get him a one time cleaning service. But make it part of an overall "spoil" package, so he understands this is all about helping him relax and take little things like mopping the floor off his mind, not changing him.
posted by batmonkey at 3:30 PM on November 26, 2008
Not sure why so many people suddenly had their shoulders up around their ears over your question. As a human being in a first world country taking part in an elective, adult relationship, you do get to be somewhat selective in the environment in which you get down and dirty. Some grit and grime is going to happen and, I think, is healthy for your immune system. But when things look sticky or coated or thick, then it's time to put Mr. Miyagi's training program in play and start scrubbing some stuff.
Don't clean up his place. Instead, let him be around when you're cleaning up your place so he can see the difference between "lived in" and "I'm not touching that".
If you can tell that he's a busy guy who just doesn't have the time, or a coddled guy who never learned to take care of his personal environment, maybe it would be a sweet gesture to get him a one time cleaning service. But make it part of an overall "spoil" package, so he understands this is all about helping him relax and take little things like mopping the floor off his mind, not changing him.
posted by batmonkey at 3:30 PM on November 26, 2008
If you're interested pursuing a relationship with this guy, but the cleanliness issue is a deal-breaker, just tell him, "I really like you, but I won't set foot into your apartment unless you clean it up." Maybe soften the blow by using humour and saying that "I'm a woman, after all, and we're very clean, and you can woo me, thus, oh chivalrous knight."
If he's a keeper, then he will clean his room or apartment. If he's not a keeper, then why are you wasting your time with him?
Sometimes guys just need a hint.
posted by KokuRyu at 4:09 PM on November 26, 2008 [2 favorites]
If he's a keeper, then he will clean his room or apartment. If he's not a keeper, then why are you wasting your time with him?
Sometimes guys just need a hint.
posted by KokuRyu at 4:09 PM on November 26, 2008 [2 favorites]
You need to identify specific cleanliness issues.
If, for example, one of the things that squicks you out is he has soap scum in the shower, you do it like this:
"Hey, I use Uncle Jack's Miracle Soap Scum Emulsifying Unguent for my shower at home, let's get you some!"
Stains in the carpet?
"You know what's great for carpet stains? Ultra-Whack Lavendar Carpet Exfoliant! It cleans carpets and leaves them lavendery-fresh!"
Mould?
"Spanky's Magnificent Mould Mangler is sooo good, you just spray it on and don't even have to do anything!"
Or you could spice things up with something like "Oh, did I tell you I really enjoy having sex against sliding glass doors/in kitchen sinks/on top of bookshelves? Well, I do. Except yours are a bit grimy, so let's sort that out, eh, eh?"
Etc etc, you get the picture. It's like the tired old management adage that makes you want to punch managers in the face: "Don't come to me with problems, come to me with solutions!" If you do it this way, you're helping him out, because tacitly what you're saying is "I guess you've been trying to find a solution to this problem for some time now, and here's what has worked for me, maybe you'd like to give it a shot."
posted by turgid dahlia at 5:07 PM on November 26, 2008
If, for example, one of the things that squicks you out is he has soap scum in the shower, you do it like this:
"Hey, I use Uncle Jack's Miracle Soap Scum Emulsifying Unguent for my shower at home, let's get you some!"
Stains in the carpet?
"You know what's great for carpet stains? Ultra-Whack Lavendar Carpet Exfoliant! It cleans carpets and leaves them lavendery-fresh!"
Mould?
"Spanky's Magnificent Mould Mangler is sooo good, you just spray it on and don't even have to do anything!"
Or you could spice things up with something like "Oh, did I tell you I really enjoy having sex against sliding glass doors/in kitchen sinks/on top of bookshelves? Well, I do. Except yours are a bit grimy, so let's sort that out, eh, eh?"
Etc etc, you get the picture. It's like the tired old management adage that makes you want to punch managers in the face: "Don't come to me with problems, come to me with solutions!" If you do it this way, you're helping him out, because tacitly what you're saying is "I guess you've been trying to find a solution to this problem for some time now, and here's what has worked for me, maybe you'd like to give it a shot."
posted by turgid dahlia at 5:07 PM on November 26, 2008
My definition of "clean" may not meet other people's. My place is clean-ish - you're not going to catch anything from staying here - and I do make an effort to hoover and clean the bathroom if someone's coming round. But cleaning the skirting boards and dusting the coving? Hmmm, probably not.
From what you've said, it sounds like he's not an unhygenic slob, just that he has different standards from yours. If that's the case, that really is your problem not his (unless you refuse to stay at his because of it, in which case it becomes his problem as well). This is not to say that your standards are wrong, just that his aren't wrong either, and that's something you probably need to work out together. But one month in may be a bit early to be discussing compromises on cleaning!
If it's really grossing you out, invite him round to yours more often, and if he questions it, have the discussion about cleaning standards - but in the spirit of compromise (not "I have these standards and you don't meet them" - more "I like things to be super-clean, you are more relaxed about it - how do we meet in the middle?")
posted by finding.perdita at 5:28 PM on November 26, 2008 [1 favorite]
From what you've said, it sounds like he's not an unhygenic slob, just that he has different standards from yours. If that's the case, that really is your problem not his (unless you refuse to stay at his because of it, in which case it becomes his problem as well). This is not to say that your standards are wrong, just that his aren't wrong either, and that's something you probably need to work out together. But one month in may be a bit early to be discussing compromises on cleaning!
If it's really grossing you out, invite him round to yours more often, and if he questions it, have the discussion about cleaning standards - but in the spirit of compromise (not "I have these standards and you don't meet them" - more "I like things to be super-clean, you are more relaxed about it - how do we meet in the middle?")
posted by finding.perdita at 5:28 PM on November 26, 2008 [1 favorite]
Eh, just clean it yourself if it really bothers you. Figure out some chore he can do for you in return. Asking that he clean his apartment now (after only a month) would, in my book, be a huge dealbreaker.
posted by footnote at 9:33 PM on November 26, 2008
posted by footnote at 9:33 PM on November 26, 2008
Not sure how to apply it in your case, but it is possible to use humour as a non-put down kinda way.
Eg with a housemate who left (hid) half-eaten bowls of food everywhere, and uh. Had small meltdowns on another housemate leaving notes on the board, asking them to clean (conversations like that, try and have in person - notes, from observation, are taken very passive-aggressively, even if we were just likely to not be in the house at the same time). I succeeded in leaving a note, without meltdown - on finding a particularly colourful bowl of mould, I left a note on our white-board, welcoming our new housemate George! And asking that everyone be their friendly best, as he doesn't talk or move... much.
The reply was a pretty hilarious note that George had left to pursue a political career at *Sewage outlet* Bay. ;D
If you can pin something amusing down to mention, that might help - but make it non-personal, and if you talk about it like it is a problem, make sure you emphasis it's your problem.
On an alternative method - see if he'd like to throw a small party? Invite some friends round?
I know many people who only do actual cleaning cleaning (ie... anything that isn't doing the dishes), for a party. Houses are often cleaner post-party, than before pre-party prep.
Alternately, suggestion - hire a cleaner?
That's exactly what they are for. They can't clean if there's mess, but if it's tidy but grimy, paid help is your... paid help!
posted by Elysum at 9:35 PM on November 26, 2008 [2 favorites]
Eg with a housemate who left (hid) half-eaten bowls of food everywhere, and uh. Had small meltdowns on another housemate leaving notes on the board, asking them to clean (conversations like that, try and have in person - notes, from observation, are taken very passive-aggressively, even if we were just likely to not be in the house at the same time). I succeeded in leaving a note, without meltdown - on finding a particularly colourful bowl of mould, I left a note on our white-board, welcoming our new housemate George! And asking that everyone be their friendly best, as he doesn't talk or move... much.
The reply was a pretty hilarious note that George had left to pursue a political career at *Sewage outlet* Bay. ;D
If you can pin something amusing down to mention, that might help - but make it non-personal, and if you talk about it like it is a problem, make sure you emphasis it's your problem.
On an alternative method - see if he'd like to throw a small party? Invite some friends round?
I know many people who only do actual cleaning cleaning (ie... anything that isn't doing the dishes), for a party. Houses are often cleaner post-party, than before pre-party prep.
Alternately, suggestion - hire a cleaner?
That's exactly what they are for. They can't clean if there's mess, but if it's tidy but grimy, paid help is your... paid help!
posted by Elysum at 9:35 PM on November 26, 2008 [2 favorites]
If I'd only been dating someone a month, I'm not sure that there would be a great way for them to tell me something like that.
posted by Nattie at 9:40 PM on November 26, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by Nattie at 9:40 PM on November 26, 2008 [1 favorite]
Hrm, maybe I'm jumping the gun here, but it sounds like if you aren't going to be ok with this now, it does not speak well of your future together.
I don't know a single person who has "turned" clean due to someone's nagging (or veiled polite nagging, for that matter.) I mean, love can move mountains, but strangely enough it can't get someone to dust furniture when they see better uses for their time. (Horrifying, I know.)
posted by uxo at 2:09 AM on November 27, 2008 [1 favorite]
I don't know a single person who has "turned" clean due to someone's nagging (or veiled polite nagging, for that matter.) I mean, love can move mountains, but strangely enough it can't get someone to dust furniture when they see better uses for their time. (Horrifying, I know.)
posted by uxo at 2:09 AM on November 27, 2008 [1 favorite]
I told my boyfriend after about a month (in a joking way) that he'd know I was really comfortable with him when I started cleaning his apartment for him. He said he couldn't wait, and then looked around and said, "But what's dirty?" It opened the conversation for what things I'd noticed that he never had--things that were corners and edges things, things that he had honestly never noticed before. If he never cleaned them, I'd have been ok with it. I'd probably have started cleaning them after six months or so. As it was, he noticed and proactively keeps things a little more to my preferences now, but if he hadn't, it wasn't a dealbreaker.
I am a neat freak. I have always wanted a cleaner place than every roommate I've ever had--I actually want a cleaner home than my MOM does. I know that about myself. I'm ok with having to do a little more work because I'm the one who wants a cleaner place. I told all my roommates that up front, and I told my boyfriend that, too. It's a part of my personality, and I don't mind that other people aren't that way, as long as they don't care if I'm a little more fixated on spotlessness. Most people love it if someone else will clean without making them feel guilty.
I'm more concerned that you're having a problem having this conversation with him than about the grime itself. Yes, it's only been a month, but you should be able to talk to him about uncomfortable things (especially if you're staying at his apartment!).
posted by peanut_mcgillicuty at 3:49 PM on November 28, 2008 [2 favorites]
I am a neat freak. I have always wanted a cleaner place than every roommate I've ever had--I actually want a cleaner home than my MOM does. I know that about myself. I'm ok with having to do a little more work because I'm the one who wants a cleaner place. I told all my roommates that up front, and I told my boyfriend that, too. It's a part of my personality, and I don't mind that other people aren't that way, as long as they don't care if I'm a little more fixated on spotlessness. Most people love it if someone else will clean without making them feel guilty.
I'm more concerned that you're having a problem having this conversation with him than about the grime itself. Yes, it's only been a month, but you should be able to talk to him about uncomfortable things (especially if you're staying at his apartment!).
posted by peanut_mcgillicuty at 3:49 PM on November 28, 2008 [2 favorites]
Best answer: Thanks for all the responses. Some good, gritty answers here and food for thought. I guess I was just surprised that he hadn't done some basic cleaning in advance of my first visit and I realize that if there are no clothes on the floor and the dishes are done then the place is clean to him. And come to think, no guy I have dated or lived with likes to clean or is compelled to clean as often as I do (which is not that often but when I make the effort I will do a good, pretty thorough job). I thought about it and while the dirty surfaces, bathroom, fridge... disturb me, and mildly gross me out, I can deal with it for now (only 6 weeks in), especially because I'm over only about once a week at the moment. As the relationship progresses and I start staying over more I will broach the subject with him, see how he feels about doing a bit more cleaning or use a cleaning service once in a while to help me feel more at home and comfortable with the place. I don't think I should do the cleaning of his place to please myself - I think keeping a place relatively clean and tidy for guests is just a common courtesy (not everyone agrees with this of course). But I would help him clean his place especially if I were to be over there more often. I do like the suggestions on how to inject a bit of humor when bringing up the subject for the first time, and also the suggestion to try to find some compromise between the different level of preferences - I'd feel pretty comfortable with these approaches.
posted by Muffy at 8:41 PM on December 1, 2008
posted by Muffy at 8:41 PM on December 1, 2008
This thread is closed to new comments.
Try to truly understand your own feelings about this, then you can begin to figure out how to present those simply and honestly. Try it.
Please don't make it seem like your own "psychosis" - women have been working for decades not to have to do this! And if his apartment is truly not that clean, then do you want to set a precedent, which could endure for years, that you are somehow "crazy" for wanting things to be clean, and that not-clean is the _true_ standard of reasonableness, and that he's just indulging you by creating a sanitary environment?
posted by amtho at 11:21 AM on November 26, 2008 [5 favorites]