How to minimize damage leaving a toxic job?
November 25, 2008 7:51 PM Subscribe
I (Mrs. Crapmatic) accepted a job 7 months ago, thinking it was a great opportunity. It has turned out to be a toxic situation. I am miserable and want to quit, but I am afraid I will be scapegoated and end up with a (very much undeserved) bad reference. Can you please help me figure out the best exit strategy?
I am the project manager of an utterly atrocious piece of software that desperately needs to be rebuilt from the ground up. This is a government job, with all the attendant wankery (of which I was blissfully unaware until now). My immediate supervisor is the original author of the software I now manage, which earned him an award some years ago, now prominently displayed on his desk. The bulk of the rest of our large organization hates having to use this software, and I am ashamed to have my name connected with it. I'm sure when it was initially released it was fine for its purpose, but it has evolved into something that is so full of holes and so poorly put together that it almost never works. I have been instructed not to use the word "bug" when documenting changes, and to generally spin this thing as good, even though everyone knows it's a mess. I would love to fix it, and have the skills to do so, but due to the organizational constraints that's not going to happen.
To make matters worse, my supervisor has the office's top manager wrapped around his finger, and is the most extreme control freak micromanager I've ever encountered in my 22 years of work experience. I have regularly overheard him putting down the rest of us to the manager when we aren't there to defend ourselves.
An example:
Manager: "Person X says this is coming along well and will probably be ready to ship on December 15th." My supervisor: :LOUD, scornful laugh: "Well, blah blah blah..." ...bunch of run-on irrelevant garbage about why it will actually be later, and how he is so much better at estimating these things than anyone else because he knows everything. Manager tunes out but buys into this. In truth it would be on time if he would not interfere constantly.
Another example:
My supervisor (to manager): "Yeah, I've been trying to coach Person X and Person Y on how to collaborate, you know, how to email and talk to these people, but they just aren't there yet. The HQ people only want to talk to me. I'm trying to coach them, though." Total BS. He literally tells us not to contact people, to let him do it. He expects us to run every email I send by him first. This guy is younger than I am, and he talks at people non-stop for 20 minutes at a time, not stopping even when they roll their eyes or try to interrupt, and he's telling the manager I don't know how to talk to people?
The guy isn't even technically my supervisor, he just acts like it. Unfortunately he's the only one with the technical knowledge of the labyrinthine software that can help me with support problems, so it's impossible for me to divorce myself from him. He treats me like an idiot, immediately and reflexively shooting down every idea or suggestion I come up with. No exaggeration.
I know for a fact that the majority of my co-workers feel equally mistreated and angry, but none of them seem to have the nerve to do much about it. I have had a conversation with one of the lower level managers, and sent a very direct email to them as well, detailing the problems I'm having and stating that because I have to spend 50% of my time placating him and he will not let me act on my own I am unable to do a good job and demonstrate my abilities to them. Not much came of that. The top manager did reach out to me a little, but didn't directly address the problem, which continues. My "supervisor" has been there 10 years, and has manipulated the management into thinking he is indispensable. In fact, despite his expertise, his constant interference with various projects causes the rest of the office's work to suffer a great deal.
I have had only great references and comments on my work in the past. I am 100% certain this is not my fault, and if I could figure out a way to fix the root problem I would. But I do not think that's going to happen. I want to cut my losses and quit. I feel that the longer I stay there, the worse my reputation will suffer by association with such poor quality work. But I am afraid that if I simply resign, then my "supervisor" will scapegoat me when there is backlash against how bad the software is, when it's actually a result of years of his poor design before I got there. I feel that he wanted to hire me specifically to have someone else to dump all this on. The management is not very involved, and they get most of their information from my supervisor. I don't want a bad reference. I'm in a small field. Should I appeal to the head manager again and tell him to talk to other people one on one for corroboration? Should I simply resign and hope for the best? What's the best way for me to get out of this situation with the least damage to my reputation? I hope some supervisor types out there can give me some advice. I'm at my wits end. Thanks in advance.
I am the project manager of an utterly atrocious piece of software that desperately needs to be rebuilt from the ground up. This is a government job, with all the attendant wankery (of which I was blissfully unaware until now). My immediate supervisor is the original author of the software I now manage, which earned him an award some years ago, now prominently displayed on his desk. The bulk of the rest of our large organization hates having to use this software, and I am ashamed to have my name connected with it. I'm sure when it was initially released it was fine for its purpose, but it has evolved into something that is so full of holes and so poorly put together that it almost never works. I have been instructed not to use the word "bug" when documenting changes, and to generally spin this thing as good, even though everyone knows it's a mess. I would love to fix it, and have the skills to do so, but due to the organizational constraints that's not going to happen.
To make matters worse, my supervisor has the office's top manager wrapped around his finger, and is the most extreme control freak micromanager I've ever encountered in my 22 years of work experience. I have regularly overheard him putting down the rest of us to the manager when we aren't there to defend ourselves.
An example:
Manager: "Person X says this is coming along well and will probably be ready to ship on December 15th." My supervisor: :LOUD, scornful laugh: "Well, blah blah blah..." ...bunch of run-on irrelevant garbage about why it will actually be later, and how he is so much better at estimating these things than anyone else because he knows everything. Manager tunes out but buys into this. In truth it would be on time if he would not interfere constantly.
Another example:
My supervisor (to manager): "Yeah, I've been trying to coach Person X and Person Y on how to collaborate, you know, how to email and talk to these people, but they just aren't there yet. The HQ people only want to talk to me. I'm trying to coach them, though." Total BS. He literally tells us not to contact people, to let him do it. He expects us to run every email I send by him first. This guy is younger than I am, and he talks at people non-stop for 20 minutes at a time, not stopping even when they roll their eyes or try to interrupt, and he's telling the manager I don't know how to talk to people?
The guy isn't even technically my supervisor, he just acts like it. Unfortunately he's the only one with the technical knowledge of the labyrinthine software that can help me with support problems, so it's impossible for me to divorce myself from him. He treats me like an idiot, immediately and reflexively shooting down every idea or suggestion I come up with. No exaggeration.
I know for a fact that the majority of my co-workers feel equally mistreated and angry, but none of them seem to have the nerve to do much about it. I have had a conversation with one of the lower level managers, and sent a very direct email to them as well, detailing the problems I'm having and stating that because I have to spend 50% of my time placating him and he will not let me act on my own I am unable to do a good job and demonstrate my abilities to them. Not much came of that. The top manager did reach out to me a little, but didn't directly address the problem, which continues. My "supervisor" has been there 10 years, and has manipulated the management into thinking he is indispensable. In fact, despite his expertise, his constant interference with various projects causes the rest of the office's work to suffer a great deal.
I have had only great references and comments on my work in the past. I am 100% certain this is not my fault, and if I could figure out a way to fix the root problem I would. But I do not think that's going to happen. I want to cut my losses and quit. I feel that the longer I stay there, the worse my reputation will suffer by association with such poor quality work. But I am afraid that if I simply resign, then my "supervisor" will scapegoat me when there is backlash against how bad the software is, when it's actually a result of years of his poor design before I got there. I feel that he wanted to hire me specifically to have someone else to dump all this on. The management is not very involved, and they get most of their information from my supervisor. I don't want a bad reference. I'm in a small field. Should I appeal to the head manager again and tell him to talk to other people one on one for corroboration? Should I simply resign and hope for the best? What's the best way for me to get out of this situation with the least damage to my reputation? I hope some supervisor types out there can give me some advice. I'm at my wits end. Thanks in advance.
Just quit and if anyone asks you why tell them as honestly as you feel like. I'm guessing that most everyone already knows the guys an idiot and you can't worry about the other 10%. He's probably got enough ex-hires out there that you can form your own support group.
posted by fshgrl at 8:34 PM on November 25, 2008
posted by fshgrl at 8:34 PM on November 25, 2008
if the situation is unfixable, the best way out is to resign, respectfully, offering two weeks notice.
I am always a little puzzled by the term "bad reference." You said you have stellar past references, so simply don't list anyone from this job as a reference. If a prospective new company does call them anyway, it will only be to verify dates of employment. I have left plenty of jobs under less than ideal circumstances, and it has never been an issue when seeking new employment. Because when asked for references, I only list people who I 100% know will say great things about me.
And lastly, just a personal note: I know stress is unavoidable, but please try not to worry about this so much. You are in a shitty situation with shitty people, and the only good thing you can do is leave. it's not you, it's them. It's only a job, there are millions of others. Life is just too short to be around people like this longer than you have to. Leaving financial considerations aside, you will absolutely 100% guaranteed be happier when you extricate yourself from this job. And cliched as it is, that is what really matters.
posted by drjimmy11 at 8:41 PM on November 25, 2008
I am always a little puzzled by the term "bad reference." You said you have stellar past references, so simply don't list anyone from this job as a reference. If a prospective new company does call them anyway, it will only be to verify dates of employment. I have left plenty of jobs under less than ideal circumstances, and it has never been an issue when seeking new employment. Because when asked for references, I only list people who I 100% know will say great things about me.
And lastly, just a personal note: I know stress is unavoidable, but please try not to worry about this so much. You are in a shitty situation with shitty people, and the only good thing you can do is leave. it's not you, it's them. It's only a job, there are millions of others. Life is just too short to be around people like this longer than you have to. Leaving financial considerations aside, you will absolutely 100% guaranteed be happier when you extricate yourself from this job. And cliched as it is, that is what really matters.
posted by drjimmy11 at 8:41 PM on November 25, 2008
Best answer: I was in a very similar situation once, as the Lead Programmer to a new start-up website run by awful, incompetent, actually abusive people. One of the bosses was routinely high on drugs on the job, and was completely computer-illiterate to boot (i.e. could not even read his e-mail without his assistant's help!), despite presenting himself and his shiny new site to the press as the paradigm of new media. I actually helped organize my mistreated co-workers into making official complaints to the company's HR department. It didn't help. This was in the entertainment field, not in government, but you get the picture that the same sort of wankery was going on.
My advice? Do not be afraid to quit a bad job. I did, also after being there seven months, and I have never ever regretted it. Don't be scared; find a new job, give your two weeks' notice, and don't look back.
posted by Asparagirl at 8:44 PM on November 25, 2008 [1 favorite]
My advice? Do not be afraid to quit a bad job. I did, also after being there seven months, and I have never ever regretted it. Don't be scared; find a new job, give your two weeks' notice, and don't look back.
posted by Asparagirl at 8:44 PM on November 25, 2008 [1 favorite]
my "supervisor" will scapegoat me when there is backlash against how bad the software is
I think this is a key phrase. Scapegoat you to whom? The only people who will listen to this jackass are the ones who are spineless or clueless enough to still work for or with him.
That might sound harsh, but what I'm trying to say is, when you have a job it's easy to start feeling like the company is the world. I have fallen into that trap myself. The truth is, he is a pathetic dictator of a shitty little corporate banana republic. There is a huge world out there full of people who could not possibly give less of a shit what this guy thinks.
posted by drjimmy11 at 8:47 PM on November 25, 2008 [1 favorite]
I think this is a key phrase. Scapegoat you to whom? The only people who will listen to this jackass are the ones who are spineless or clueless enough to still work for or with him.
That might sound harsh, but what I'm trying to say is, when you have a job it's easy to start feeling like the company is the world. I have fallen into that trap myself. The truth is, he is a pathetic dictator of a shitty little corporate banana republic. There is a huge world out there full of people who could not possibly give less of a shit what this guy thinks.
posted by drjimmy11 at 8:47 PM on November 25, 2008 [1 favorite]
So, if you continue to work there, you will be miserable and still be blamed and ridiculed behind your back. If you quit, you will no longer be miserable but you will still be blamed and ridiculed behind your back.
I'd choose the latter.
posted by spec80 at 8:50 PM on November 25, 2008
I'd choose the latter.
posted by spec80 at 8:50 PM on November 25, 2008
Best answer: Oh, ow. I was in an uber-dysfunctional workplace with a psycho supervisor a few years ago. And she actively tried to scapegoat people who left. I remember one guy resigning and her trying to talk him out of it by threatening to tell people he left because he wasn't a team player. Etc etc dramarama. He called her bluff and said he had enough excellent references to do without her, resigned, told everyone what she'd done and lived happily ever after.
When it was my turn to resign soon after, I just kept it completely neutral, didn't give a specific reason for going, and made sure to put lots of positive stuff in my resignation letter. And absolutely refused to be drawn on my reasons for leaving, despite extensive probing from psycho lady. I just kept saying ''I've learned so much. I'll really miss everyone. It's just time for me to move on'' over and over.
Then, in between resigning and actually departing, I lined up two senior colleagues with job titles comparable to my crazee-lady supervisor. I asked would they mind being my referees if I listed them as ''acting supervisor'' which was a role they'd held a couple of times. I didn't have to explain to them why I'd prefer prospective employers to call them to her. No prospective employer ever asked why I'd listed them, but if they had I would've said something along the lines of my chosen referees were closer, in the same office, worked directly with me on a number of projects while the psycho lady was based in another state.
I too lived happily ever after and in hindsight can't believe how long I stayed in that hell-hole. FWIW it took me a long time to get over the stress and anxiety of working in such a toxic environment. If I had my time over, I would've left after two months, not two years.
To sum up: there is always a way out. Work out what it is and take it, ASAP.
posted by t0astie at 10:44 PM on November 25, 2008 [5 favorites]
When it was my turn to resign soon after, I just kept it completely neutral, didn't give a specific reason for going, and made sure to put lots of positive stuff in my resignation letter. And absolutely refused to be drawn on my reasons for leaving, despite extensive probing from psycho lady. I just kept saying ''I've learned so much. I'll really miss everyone. It's just time for me to move on'' over and over.
Then, in between resigning and actually departing, I lined up two senior colleagues with job titles comparable to my crazee-lady supervisor. I asked would they mind being my referees if I listed them as ''acting supervisor'' which was a role they'd held a couple of times. I didn't have to explain to them why I'd prefer prospective employers to call them to her. No prospective employer ever asked why I'd listed them, but if they had I would've said something along the lines of my chosen referees were closer, in the same office, worked directly with me on a number of projects while the psycho lady was based in another state.
I too lived happily ever after and in hindsight can't believe how long I stayed in that hell-hole. FWIW it took me a long time to get over the stress and anxiety of working in such a toxic environment. If I had my time over, I would've left after two months, not two years.
To sum up: there is always a way out. Work out what it is and take it, ASAP.
posted by t0astie at 10:44 PM on November 25, 2008 [5 favorites]
I am always a little puzzled by the term "bad reference." You said you have stellar past references, so simply don't list anyone from this job as a reference.
I often wonder about just how important "references" are. I've never needed them in my job search. Maybe references aren't so important in Japan, or maybe it's because I have got my past three positions through networking and setting things up before leaving a workplace.
I generally don't apply to organizations where I don't know the senior decision maker or hiring manager (ie, I don't apply to ads in the career section).
Anyway, this strategy won't help you much. However, you can resign gracefully, by giving a month's notice.
If a future potential employer asks you why, be positive, talk about lessons learned, and do not talk about personalities.
posted by KokuRyu at 10:51 PM on November 25, 2008
I often wonder about just how important "references" are. I've never needed them in my job search. Maybe references aren't so important in Japan, or maybe it's because I have got my past three positions through networking and setting things up before leaving a workplace.
I generally don't apply to organizations where I don't know the senior decision maker or hiring manager (ie, I don't apply to ads in the career section).
Anyway, this strategy won't help you much. However, you can resign gracefully, by giving a month's notice.
If a future potential employer asks you why, be positive, talk about lessons learned, and do not talk about personalities.
posted by KokuRyu at 10:51 PM on November 25, 2008
Color me old-fashioned but diseases always work well in such a situation. Easy exit, no complaints or legalities.
posted by watercarrier at 12:02 AM on November 26, 2008
posted by watercarrier at 12:02 AM on November 26, 2008
Find a new job, using other references. When you've got that new job lined up, let your existing manager know that you have an opportunity to take a job that you'd be crazy not to pass up, given your personal long-term goals. Give them the standard notice, help transition your knowledge to the appropriate people, and then leave. Enjoy your new job.
yeah, that's pretty much it. It's a job, not a life partner; you don't owe them anything more than the typical notice and smiles and friendliness on the way out.
posted by davejay at 12:34 AM on November 26, 2008
yeah, that's pretty much it. It's a job, not a life partner; you don't owe them anything more than the typical notice and smiles and friendliness on the way out.
posted by davejay at 12:34 AM on November 26, 2008
Oh yeah, and if you're interviewing and they want to know why you're leaving your old job, just say that your current job is lacking in opportunities that align with your long-term career goals. I
posted by davejay at 12:36 AM on November 26, 2008
posted by davejay at 12:36 AM on November 26, 2008
Most employers will never give 'a bad reference' as to do so opens them up to litigation. In many countries the most they are able to do by law is confirm your start and end date of your employment, regardless of your performance, otherwise they're taking the chance that you might sue them for torpedoing a job opportunity for you.
Quit, and be honest during your exit interview why. Then move on with your life, which is too short to stay in shitty jobs if you don't have to, and by the sound of your skills, you don't have to.
posted by Happy Dave at 12:53 AM on November 26, 2008
Quit, and be honest during your exit interview why. Then move on with your life, which is too short to stay in shitty jobs if you don't have to, and by the sound of your skills, you don't have to.
posted by Happy Dave at 12:53 AM on November 26, 2008
Don't do an exit interview - I've never heard of anything changing because of an exit interview. HR is there to run interference between you and management - to soak up the outrage/fear/distress and get you out the door with the minimum of fuss. Just work on your CV, line up referees from other jobs, and work out what your story will be for leaving this job. Oh and that story has to be as positive as possible as you can realistically make it.
posted by awfurby at 1:49 AM on November 26, 2008
posted by awfurby at 1:49 AM on November 26, 2008
Best answer: You seem to be in a position where you are able to leave this job if you so choose. I agree with others who say to simply not to list anyone there as a reference.
On the other hand since not having the job anymore does not seem to be a threat to you, why not try to improve matters with some bold moves first? Start calling bugs "bugs", communicate with people you need to communicate without this co-worker's blessing, send copious emails documenting software problems far and wide and up and down the org chart. Perhaps prepare a document "Rebuilding SoftwareX from the Ground Up: A strategy to build a first-in-class application." Every time he lies, call him a liar. Etc.
I mean, what are they going to do? Fire you and leave you with a reputation as someone who is ruthlessly honest and willing to fight for principles?
Oh wait, this is a government job? And this guy is "isn't even technically [your] supervisor"? And the manager seems very non-confrontational? You can do a lot to improve the situation for your coworkers, the government, and whatever taxpayers you are serving. It will be quite some time before they can process and paperwork you out of a job. Whenever you meet with HR/your boss, ask if you can tape record the conversation for your lawyer.
Put all your cards on the table and force this guy to put all his cards on the table. Worst case scenario, you are out of a job you don't like and at least more people have an inkling of what is going on. Best case scenario, everyone sees this guy has been bluffing.
posted by mikepop at 5:41 AM on November 26, 2008 [2 favorites]
On the other hand since not having the job anymore does not seem to be a threat to you, why not try to improve matters with some bold moves first? Start calling bugs "bugs", communicate with people you need to communicate without this co-worker's blessing, send copious emails documenting software problems far and wide and up and down the org chart. Perhaps prepare a document "Rebuilding SoftwareX from the Ground Up: A strategy to build a first-in-class application." Every time he lies, call him a liar. Etc.
I mean, what are they going to do? Fire you and leave you with a reputation as someone who is ruthlessly honest and willing to fight for principles?
Oh wait, this is a government job? And this guy is "isn't even technically [your] supervisor"? And the manager seems very non-confrontational? You can do a lot to improve the situation for your coworkers, the government, and whatever taxpayers you are serving. It will be quite some time before they can process and paperwork you out of a job. Whenever you meet with HR/your boss, ask if you can tape record the conversation for your lawyer.
Put all your cards on the table and force this guy to put all his cards on the table. Worst case scenario, you are out of a job you don't like and at least more people have an inkling of what is going on. Best case scenario, everyone sees this guy has been bluffing.
posted by mikepop at 5:41 AM on November 26, 2008 [2 favorites]
Another tactic is to look for another job while still at this one. You can tell prospective employers that you do not want your current employer to know you are looking for a job, and therefore cannot use them as a reference. If they ask why you are leaving, you can cite "personal reasons" or that you feel that the current position will not lead you in the direction you want your career to go. People will respect this, unless they are utter assholes in which case you don't want to work for them.
posted by nax at 10:21 AM on November 26, 2008
posted by nax at 10:21 AM on November 26, 2008
Make finding another job your second full-time job and quit as soon as possible.
Re: the bad reference, typically HR doesn't care about the software quirks, personalities, foibles, scruples and all that malarkey. They are into more pressing issues like whether you showed up, did (or didn't do) your work satisfactorially, didn't get fired and stuff like that. If you are at a 'government job' the bureaucracy will hopefully be thick enough to insulate you to where as long as you didn't do any serious bridge-burning, you will get out unscathed. If no one is building an obvious paper trail case against you, you will be totally fine.
A former co-worker and manager of mine once said something to me like: When you work at a shitty job your outlook tends to be shitty and you can't even help it, so you will tend to worry about stuff like bad references and personal attacks. When you finally quit the shitty job, it is like coming out of a dark bat-infested cave into a delightful sunlit valley. (This was said after he quit, while I was still working there.) It was absolutely true. Your stress level will plummet and you will start enjoying life again. That was seven years ago and I haven't had a shitty job since (knock on wood).
posted by ostranenie at 10:01 PM on November 26, 2008 [1 favorite]
Re: the bad reference, typically HR doesn't care about the software quirks, personalities, foibles, scruples and all that malarkey. They are into more pressing issues like whether you showed up, did (or didn't do) your work satisfactorially, didn't get fired and stuff like that. If you are at a 'government job' the bureaucracy will hopefully be thick enough to insulate you to where as long as you didn't do any serious bridge-burning, you will get out unscathed. If no one is building an obvious paper trail case against you, you will be totally fine.
A former co-worker and manager of mine once said something to me like: When you work at a shitty job your outlook tends to be shitty and you can't even help it, so you will tend to worry about stuff like bad references and personal attacks. When you finally quit the shitty job, it is like coming out of a dark bat-infested cave into a delightful sunlit valley. (This was said after he quit, while I was still working there.) It was absolutely true. Your stress level will plummet and you will start enjoying life again. That was seven years ago and I haven't had a shitty job since (knock on wood).
posted by ostranenie at 10:01 PM on November 26, 2008 [1 favorite]
Also - please don't take Senor Asshole's attacks personally. He is clearly miserable, mad at the world and taking it out on whoever is being paid to endure it.
Also, I find people in general tend to like people who treat them like dirt for some inexplicable reason, which would explain his tenure...something about mistaking arrogance for brilliance.
posted by ostranenie at 10:07 PM on November 26, 2008
Also, I find people in general tend to like people who treat them like dirt for some inexplicable reason, which would explain his tenure...something about mistaking arrogance for brilliance.
posted by ostranenie at 10:07 PM on November 26, 2008
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by turgid dahlia at 8:25 PM on November 25, 2008