Comments on: The Greatest Ethical Consideration Of Our Time

Question: The Greatest Ethical Consideration Of Our Time

twine42 — Thu, 07 Oct 2004 07:44:01 -0800

Why must the toilet seat be left down?
[more inside - if you'll pardon the phrase]

Okay... I can understand why anyone would like the idea of the lid being put down, but why is there always an argument about the damned seat?

The only answer I've ever got is that the toilet ceramic is cold if you sit on it. Excuse me? Men get nagged because you might not be observant enough to notice the toilet is part missing?

Am I missing something, or is this a random bit of gender bias?

By: Shane

Shane — Thu, 07 Oct 2004 07:53:27 -0800

Why must the toilet seat be left down?

So my cat Jackie doesn't drink from the toilet.

Otherwise, I see no reason for it to be left down, unless some people consider it more aestethically pleasing. (Because they're anal retentive and dislike the idea of toilets in general? Or maybe, more practically, because the toilet bowl is stained brown and green, hasn't been cleaned for years, and is disgusting and smelly?)

By: gramcracker

gramcracker — Thu, 07 Oct 2004 07:55:46 -0800

It's not just that the porcelain is cold, or that you can fall in, but it's that it's usually covered with urine from men who miss the toilet. (And if you get up at night and don't have the lights on, you can think the seat's down when it's not really.)

I don't know if it's so much of "gender bias" as "courtesy."

By: twine42

twine42 — Thu, 07 Oct 2004 08:02:20 -0800

Shane, surely it's the lid that stops that, not the seat?

Gram, but if men have to switch the light on to pee, why shouldn't women?

I'm not saying we should rebel or that it's not a curtesy to do it, but in this country you'd almost think it was a hanging offense...

By: Eamon

Eamon — Thu, 07 Oct 2004 08:07:44 -0800

If you're worried about your partner nagging you about the lid, insist on the lid being down. Now everyone has to do the same amount of work before and after using the toilet, regardless of sex.

By: languagehat

languagehat — Thu, 07 Oct 2004 08:07:49 -0800

"Foreplay begins with putting the toilet seat down without being asked!"

The male in the house usually scores no points with the female for picking efficiency over kindness. (Note: this page contains a computer simulation and statistical analysis!)

Of course, if a man lives alone, he can do as he darn well pleases. And, if a woman wants to live alone, she can make this a big issue.

Me, I leave it down, logic or no logic. I like keeping my wife happy in whatever ways I can think of.

I'm sure we've discussed this burning issue before, but I can't find where.

By: WolfDaddy

WolfDaddy — Thu, 07 Oct 2004 08:11:06 -0800

but it's that it's usually covered with urine from men who miss the toilet

This is why the mnemonic "If you sprinkle when you tinkle, be neat and wipe the seat" should be taught in all homes, or perhaps health class.

Of course, seeing the state of most bachelorette domiciles, I wouldn't use the toilet there seat up OR down. Most girls alone are MUCH messier than most boys alone.

By: Keith Talent

Keith Talent — Thu, 07 Oct 2004 08:11:50 -0800

I get the courtesy part, but by the same token, shouldn't a women leave the seat up for for her husband/BF?

By: dame

dame — Thu, 07 Oct 2004 08:13:15 -0800

Because boys sometimes need it down and girls always need it down (and generally use it more), so it must be down more often than up, especially if you live at my house where there are four girls and one boy.

Because it's less annoying to do it yourself than listen to us bitch about it.

Becuase toliet-seat-up is a poor aesthetic.

By: callmejay

callmejay — Thu, 07 Oct 2004 08:15:08 -0800

A curious thing about women is that they are known to sometimes sit without looking. It's bizarre, but it really happens. I think it's because they've been coddled by their fathers and brothers and that we need to put an end to this horrible cycle or we'll raise still another generation of women who don't look before they sit.

By: Stan Chin

Stan Chin — Thu, 07 Oct 2004 08:15:18 -0800

This is a secret: But leaving the toilet seat down presents a challenge to most men for the honor of their accuracy. I suggest all women take note of this.

By: Shane

Shane — Thu, 07 Oct 2004 08:25:55 -0800

Shane, surely it's the lid that stops that, not the seat?

Oh, hell yeah! I misread your question as the opposite of what it says. In that case, what grahamcracker said. Women in the night stand more to lose than men. Seat's up and a woman doesn't notice, she falls right in; seats down and a man doesn't notice, he just pees on the seat. Courtesy.

By: Shane

Shane — Thu, 07 Oct 2004 08:28:48 -0800

Now that I understand the question, why do you like the lid down?

By: waldo

waldo — Thu, 07 Oct 2004 08:37:59 -0800

It's amazing to me that there are so many women that hurl themselves ass-first at a toilet, without taking the time to even look at it. On a half dozen occasions in my life, I've heard a shriek emanate from various bathrooms in homes as some female has just fallen butt-first into the toilet for this very reason. It's amazing to me that this would ever happen to anybody.

To answer your question, Shane (not that I'm the one to whom you addressed it), I leave the lid down to prevent spray upon flushing. That's a whole different topic, but suffice it to say I don't want toilet water splashing about my bathroom.

By: majcher

majcher — Thu, 07 Oct 2004 08:45:52 -0800

The lid stays down in our house because even a freshly bleached, sparkling clean toilet is kind of gross.

Of course, you'll note that nobody ever complains about sitting on a closed lid in the dark without looking and spraying pee everywhere. This is because some people - who just happen to be women - are completely mad when it comes to toilet seat positions. There is no good real life reason - it's just one of those things that people get all worked up over, because that's what people do. For me, if someone's crazy enough to threaten breaking off a relationship because they can't practice basic survival skills, then I don't really feel strongly obligated to help them pass on their defective genetic material, there. Others may disagree.

By: Avogadro

Avogadro — Thu, 07 Oct 2004 08:47:49 -0800

Folks, it's really simple:

If the lid is always down, then everyone knows what to do:

Fellas: lift the lid and the seat to piss, or lid alone to crap
Ladies: lift only the lid at all times

All other permutations can be neglected.

By: i_cola

i_cola — Thu, 07 Oct 2004 08:47:59 -0800

At home, down.

In public unisex toilets, up. [Saves future visitors from being caught out by all those guys who pee & spray without bothering to lift the seat.]

By: JoanArkham

JoanArkham — Thu, 07 Oct 2004 08:49:20 -0800

#1 Because I don't want to look at your pee-stains.

#2 Because I might need to pee in the middle of the night while drunk.

In my house we have solved the problem by using seperate bathrooms. I'll never go back...

By: adampsyche

adampsyche — Thu, 07 Oct 2004 08:52:40 -0800

Because it's less annoying to do it yourself than listen to us bitch about it.

Ok, I'm convinced.

By: jonmc

jonmc — Thu, 07 Oct 2004 08:53:25 -0800

especially if you live at my house where there are four girls and one boy.

Does Mr. Roper know about this?

By: duckstab

duckstab — Thu, 07 Oct 2004 08:55:06 -0800

I leave the lid down because there's a lid there. If the thing wasn't supposed to be covered, it wouldn't have a lid.

By: headspace

headspace — Thu, 07 Oct 2004 09:00:20 -0800

I don't care about the seat, I just want the lid down. I didn't buy the color-coordinated fuzzy toilet cover for my *heath*, ya know!

By: Secret Life of Gravy

Secret Life of Gravy — Thu, 07 Oct 2004 09:03:44 -0800

It's amazing to me that there are so many women that hurl themselves ass-first at a toilet, without taking the time to even look at it

Most toilets are all one color. Lid up, toilet seat up and they blend together. If you (meaning of course ME) have lived all your life in your single mother's house and then in your own single apartment, you get used to taking the toilet for granted. It is just there, ready and waiting. There is no need to examine it.

So you (still ME) visit your boyfriend's apartment a few times and trying to impress he has always made sure the toilet is in Ready for Squatting Mode. You spend the night for the first time. At 3:00 am, having drunk more than usual, you make a sleepy foray into the bathroom where the nightlight provides (you think!) enough light to get the job done.

UUUUUUUGGGGGGHHHHHH. Cold dose of nasty reality!

By: benzo8

benzo8 — Thu, 07 Oct 2004 09:04:20 -0800

I'm amazed that this is even an issue anywhere outside of sitcoms. It's simple:

Arrive at toilet. Put lid/seat combination in whatever configuration you need it to be in, based on whatever configuration your find it in. Do what you need to do. Flush.

That said, in my past, I've known girls bitch about it, but, like so many other poor excuses to bitch, I've learned that this just means the girl's a sour, demanding bint who wants to change me, rather than love me for who I am. It's a sympton of a disease that the girl can cure after I've dumped her...

(ObsDisc: Been with the same girl five years and she can handle a toilet on her own real well thanks.)

By: SpaceCadet

SpaceCadet — Thu, 07 Oct 2004 09:07:23 -0800

Do people piss in the dark? Do they purposely close their eyes when they go to the toilet?

To me it seems rather simple: look at the toilet. If the seat is down and you don't want it to be down, there is a hinge on it. This hinge allows the seat to go up. If the seat is already up and you want it to be down, there is a hinge on it. This hinge allows the seat to go down. Sometimes it will be down and you want it to be down - in this situation, you don't have to do anything. Sometimes it will be up and you want it to be up - in this situation you don't have to do anything.

I am giving this advice away freely.

and.....on preview.....seems this advice has already been given away freely by benzo8 :-)

By: jessamyn

jessamyn — Thu, 07 Oct 2004 09:08:36 -0800

there are so many women that hurl themselves ass-first at a toilet...
you'll note that nobody ever complains about sitting on a closed lid in the dark without looking and spraying pee everywhere...

Hey that's me! If it's my house and it's dark, there is no reason to expect the seat to be other than when I left it. It comes from having lived alone for too long, I think. In fact, I've been really creeped out on rare occasions when I've come home to find the seat UP even though I lived alone [repairmen, apparently]. If it's a house that I share with other people, as I do now, then we agree on whatever we think is reasonable and try to stick to it. There's no morally right or wrong way to do this, in my opinion, but people feel strongly about it and it's relative to households. It would never occur to me to expect someone to leave the seat any particular way in their own house. And, of course, no matter what the rules are in our house, my Dad and his Dad will always leave the seat up regardless. We have one set of friends who have a little note in the bathroom requesting that everyone [setters and pointers] please sit while they pee to keep the bathroom more clean and I think that is going a bit over the line.

By: dame

dame — Thu, 07 Oct 2004 09:10:59 -0800

It's amazing to me that there are so many women that hurl themselves ass-first at a toilet, without taking the time to even look at it.

Are you kidding? Do you look carefully at your kitchen chair every time you sit down? Have you never sat on the couch and accidently put your ass on something you didn't expect to be there?

I look at new toilets, but when I'm in the bathroom at my house, where I must have been a thousand times before, I'm pretty habituated to my environment. I'm thinking about other stuff. Hell, I've sat down on the lid far more often than I've almost fallen in.

Yeah, if you live in a house where the seat is often up, not looking is dumb. But when your toilet seat is pretty much always down, it isn't stupid to assume it will be. (Which, by the way, is why it is far more important to put it back down in a girlie house—that's just laying a trap.)

By: benzo8

benzo8 — Thu, 07 Oct 2004 09:15:22 -0800

Note for stalkers at Jessamyn's place: Put the loo seat back where you found it.

By: terrapin

terrapin — Thu, 07 Oct 2004 09:19:35 -0800

Silly question that has no definitve answer.

By: biffa

biffa — Thu, 07 Oct 2004 09:24:37 -0800

MeFite brothers; if you were the liberals so many of you claim to be you would sit down to see to all of your business to best show your solidarity with your other-gendered comrades. And it would avoid all this bickering.

Following i_cola: When will then start installing spring loaded seats in men's public lavs? It would save so much trouble for those who arrive after seat pissing fools.

By: ROU_Xenophobe

ROU_Xenophobe — Thu, 07 Oct 2004 09:31:23 -0800

Lid down for flushing. Helps keep the Aerosol of Poo to a minimum.

Beyond that, lid up, seat down.

Simple reason: the toilet should *always* be ready to receive a Crap Of Great Urgency. That second or two putting the seat down can be the difference between blessed relief and Serious Unpleasantness, and it poses no serious impediment to an urgent whizz.

Nothing to do with being nice to women. Sitting without looking is about as sharp as a sack of wet mice.

By: dame

dame — Thu, 07 Oct 2004 09:40:36 -0800

Note to benzo8: What if there were a girl who you were totally in love with and who accepted you as you were but for the little issue of the toilet seat?

By: soyjoy

soyjoy — Thu, 07 Oct 2004 09:42:23 -0800

It is a silly issue, I'll grant you, but men who want to actually argue that the lid should be left up are even sillier.

First of all, there's the simple statistical-average issue, as dame alluded to. Both men and women need the seat down. Only men ever "need" it up (see below). Having the default be up rather than down is off-balance in favor of men (shocking!)

Second, men standing up splash pee, whether or not it's always in the bowl (yeah, right - or even always on the porcelain), far more and far further than women. Yet I'm willing to bet that in these couples the man does not clean the toilet more often than the woman. So if not, the tiny inconvenience of a man remembering to leave the seat down is at least a small counterbalance to this.

Third, I have to ask, why do men at home in their own bathroom need to pee standing up? I don't. (On preview, maybe biffa doesn't either, or maybe that was just sarcasm.) Really - What's the advantage? The time - the .3 milliseconds it takes you to pull your pants down instead of just fishing your dick out through your fly? Or is it perhaps, something a little more serious - the image?

At any rate, since my son and I don't do the stand-up thing at home (public restrooms are a different matter, as previously indicated), this is simply not an issue in our house, and I'm always amused at those for whom it is.

By: squealy

squealy — Thu, 07 Oct 2004 09:53:06 -0800

The lid should stay down because otherwise money will flow out of the house. Or so an ex-gf told me.

By: robocop is bleeding

robocop is bleeding — Thu, 07 Oct 2004 10:19:06 -0800

Because I paid for this toilet seat, Mr. Green!

By: Guy Smiley

Guy Smiley — Thu, 07 Oct 2004 10:33:46 -0800

The lid should be kept down, to keep toothbrushes and such from accidentally falling in the toilet.

By: caution live frogs

caution live frogs — Thu, 07 Oct 2004 10:37:44 -0800

wait - am i the only one who pees in the dark? it's not that hard. you just get close enough that you can feel the edge of the bowl with your calves, then you know where to aim. no more or less messy than peeing in the light - but why flip the light on, blind yourself and probably the cat that followed you in there ('cause the cat has to see what everyone is doing, all of the time) and then, once completed and flushed, flip the light off again, only to end up night-blind and thus find yourself stepping on or tripping over the cat on the way back to bed?

(sounds like a good way to get a fall-induced head injury to me. or at the least a nice claw mark on the ankle, thanks to the offended cat.)

By: TimeFactor

TimeFactor — Thu, 07 Oct 2004 10:41:15 -0800

Feng Shui says keep the lid down. Plus, we're all equal with the lid down.

By: wackybrit

wackybrit — Thu, 07 Oct 2004 10:46:35 -0800

Are you kidding? Do you look carefully at your kitchen chair every time you sit down? Have you never sat on the couch and accidently put your ass on something you didn't expect to be there?

Perhaps I'm just anal retentive, but there's a massive difference. I always wipe the seat on the toilet first just incase, whereas I don't wipe the couch or the kitchen chair when I sit on that.

By: majcher

majcher — Thu, 07 Oct 2004 10:47:43 -0800

As an aside, my aunt and uncle solved this problem nicely when they built their new house: when she wasn't paying attention, he installed a urinal in the bathroom. Now the girls in the house just complain about the smell, instead.

By: plinth

plinth — Thu, 07 Oct 2004 10:55:34 -0800

I reiterate: if you're a guy and you're not in a hurry, why bother standing up?

By: biffa

biffa — Thu, 07 Oct 2004 11:04:33 -0800

Actually soyjoy, I have no problem with peeing sitting down and often do so, (but made my post into a political statement as I am aware there is a Swedish political movement who favour men to be seated). I have known men for whom this was a major issue. I used to live in a shared house where the seat would not stay up, requiring one handed holding or offering the temptation to leave the seat down and aim for the hole. An arsehole in the house would plump for option 2 whenever drunk and left his piss over the seat for all to deal with, when it was pointed out that he could just sit down he was massively affronted, he just couldn't deal with the concept. I'm sure there are plenty of others with the same gender stereotype hangups.

caution live frogs: Its easy to pee in the dark if you sit down to do so.

By: biffa

biffa — Thu, 07 Oct 2004 11:06:58 -0800

plinth: I knew we'd talked about this before but couldnt find the damn thing. I can't resist a good ablution related conversation.

By: soyjoy

soyjoy — Thu, 07 Oct 2004 11:08:59 -0800

the cat that followed you in there ('cause the cat has to see what everyone is doing, all of the time

Ooh! Ooh! Another reason for sitting down - men who live with cats in the house, can you tell me you've never had that incident where you're standing and peeing and the cat comes in with the need to rub against your legs, with its tail sticking up, steadily approaching intersecting with the stream, and you have to do a crazy dance to try to avoid the tail but hit the bowl, and fail at one or the other? Come on. It happened to me more than once before I started sitting down. (On preview: Oh yeah, the falling seat is another twist on this scenario)

Also, what plinth said on that other thread, except for the bizarre last phrase.

By: norm

norm — Thu, 07 Oct 2004 11:22:37 -0800

clearly, the solution is to urinate in the sink.

By: shepd

shepd — Thu, 07 Oct 2004 11:25:03 -0800

Uhm, the real answer is to leave not just the seat down, but the cover down too.

Now ladies and men both have to do the same amount of work because neither can use the toilet until the cover is lifted.

One rule, out of courtesy: Don't put fluffy covers on the toilet seat cover unless you're willing to install some velcro. It's a pain in the ass at night to hold the covers up and your dick in the middle of the night.

By: MrMoonPie

MrMoonPie — Thu, 07 Oct 2004 11:27:56 -0800

My favorite entry from the previous thread:

Do women just rush into the bathroom blind, reading a book or something, and plop their naked ass down without bothering to glance what they're about to sit and piss on? What if someone is already sitting on the toilet? Presumably, if they can see that, they can see a lid and/or seat, right? Anyone ever sat down to take a nice crap and had your woman rush in with her nose in a book, sit down on you and start peeing?

By: Civil_Disobedient

Civil_Disobedient — Thu, 07 Oct 2004 11:34:21 -0800

Up, always up! We men have to take the responsibility of teaching these simple women how to use their eyes.

But actually, lid and seat always down. Why? Because that way things don't fall into the toilet. Duh.

By: dame

dame — Thu, 07 Oct 2004 12:01:23 -0800

Wait, we're dumb for not looking in our own bathrooms but you can't keep things from falling into your toliet?

Must stop procrastinating.

By: waldo

waldo — Thu, 07 Oct 2004 12:10:29 -0800

Do you look carefully at your kitchen chair every time you sit down?

Well, no, but I do look at it. I'd notice if, say, the seat was missing. I'll put it this way: I, as a man, leave the seat up at all times, because I live alone. And yet I have never fallen ass-first into the toilet.

By: Sangre Azul

Sangre Azul — Thu, 07 Oct 2004 12:20:10 -0800

Everything down for me, otherwise the cats will play in the toilet.

Peeing in the dark is bewildering to me. Because here in Florida, you never do anything alone in the dark, thanks to our creepy-crawly contingency. (No matter how clean your house is, it only takes one palmetto bug or wolf spider skittering across your bare feet to make you reach for the lights every time.)

By: jessamyn

jessamyn — Thu, 07 Oct 2004 12:30:29 -0800

I, as a man, leave the seat up at all times, because I live alone. And yet I have never fallen ass-first into the toilet.

but don't you turn on the lights first because you have to read your magazine? all guys I know heading crapwards into the restroom are always carrying magazines. also, you're engaged, right? check back with us in about six months and tell us if you still do leave the seat up at all times.

By: SpaceCadet

SpaceCadet — Thu, 07 Oct 2004 12:32:40 -0800

MeFite brothers; if you were the liberals so many of you claim to be you would sit down to see to all of your business to best show your solidarity with your other-gendered comrades. And it would avoid all this bickering.

Yeah, and these guys should have a "50 ways to be a cooool metrosexual" poster on the door to read while they're sitting down and pissing. These performing pandas to it all for the ladies.

By: deborah

deborah — Thu, 07 Oct 2004 12:33:29 -0800

The lid must be down. I'm against fecal matter and urine spraying up into the air I breathe and settling onto my toothbrush, drinking glass, towels, etc. Therefore, because the seat is between the lid and toilet, the seat must be down as well.

Simple, no?

By: jonmc

jonmc — Thu, 07 Oct 2004 12:37:24 -0800

Oddly, the older I get, the more likely I am, at least at home, to sit down when I take a leak. Just for the rest, I suppose.

By: SpaceCadet

SpaceCadet — Thu, 07 Oct 2004 12:46:07 -0800

Hole in the ground toliets - assume the "helicopter" breakdance position and hope for the best. We could always put the genie back in the bottle folks.

By: maudlin

maudlin — Thu, 07 Oct 2004 13:28:52 -0800

I agree with the two unisex reasons for keeping the seat and lid down when not in use and while flushing: things could fall in, and aerosolized crap can spray out.

Consider your kitchen, where most people close cupboaad and drawers after use. I don't walk into my kitchen in the morning, open two drawers and three cupboards and leave them there until my husband or I need to close one to open another. Cupboards, drawers and toilets are designed to close when not in use to keep things tidy and to avoid accidents.

By: NortonDC

NortonDC — Thu, 07 Oct 2004 14:15:36 -0800

Having the default be up rather than down is off-balance in favor of men

That's a profoundly powerful point, soyjoy. Except that exactly zero people here are advocating up as the default seat position.

And plinth, the answer to your question is: to save knee wear for vigorous fucking instead.

By: emelenjr

emelenjr — Thu, 07 Oct 2004 15:14:16 -0800

I posted the very same question before, after getting chewed out by my mother (and then my father, defending her). My philosophy is to leave everything down, so that every person who uses the bathroom has to at least lift the seat, if not the seat and the lid. Everybody ~~poops~~ wins.

By: andrew cooke

andrew cooke — Thu, 07 Oct 2004 15:56:34 -0800

By: rushmc

rushmc — Thu, 07 Oct 2004 16:19:40 -0800

Because many women tend to be bossy and controlling?

The aesthetic answer is to keep both lid and seat closed except when in use. No one wants to see what lurks in your toilet bowl...even (especially) if it's blue.

And anyone who pees in the dark or can't otherwise distinguish between the seat and the rim of the bowl needs serious help.

the most efficient solution is to leave the toilet as you used it. then, if the next use is the same, no effort is needed. if something needs to change, only the change necessary is needed.

Also, the burden of effort falls upon the person requiring the change of status, so it's the fairest solution. However, I still go with the aesthetic solution as described above.

By: Civil_Disobedient

Civil_Disobedient — Thu, 07 Oct 2004 17:21:38 -0800

Wait, we're dumb for not looking in our own bathrooms but you can't keep things from falling into your toliet?

Now, now, I didn't say you were dumb, I said you were simple. As in, country-lass not used to electricity or light switches that enjoys playing Stevie Wonder in their spare time.

And I don't drop things into the toilet, because I don't keep anything that could potentially fall into the toilet near it. But "other person" has decided that all hairbrushes and various makeup sundry needs to go over the toilet, which is a disaster waiting to happen. Mind you, this is not an indication of insanity on her part, just her natural feminine desire to cover every horizontal space with crap. Another issue altogether.

Finally, I have a question to the more, uh, anally-retentive folk out there who keep harping on about aerolized poo. Can someone please explain how the mere contact of poo in water mixed with flushing turns the solid matter into a gaseous cloud of poo-death?

By: jonmc

jonmc — Thu, 07 Oct 2004 17:43:23 -0800

And anyone who pees in the dark or can't otherwise distinguish between the seat and the rim of the bowl needs serious help.

Add the x factor of alcohol and you'll see the possibilites, my man.

By: dame

dame — Thu, 07 Oct 2004 18:27:37 -0800

But C_D, why do you need a light to pee unless you're reading, in which case looking up from the paragraph—even to check the toilet—causes instant death? Don't you know where the toilet is? Or are you so simple as to need to inspect each toilet as though you are unfamiliar with the concept?

/tweaking

Anyway, I guess the rule really is however the bitchiest, bossiest person in your house wants it.

Must stop using toilet thread to avoid work...

By: kamylyon

kamylyon — Thu, 07 Oct 2004 19:07:35 -0800

I spent the greater part of my adult life in a male dominated environment. Not that they were dominating or anything, just that I was outnumbered for the most part.

I have 2 children, now grown, both boys. It was just always a lot easier for me to put the seat back up than it was to complain about them not putting it down. It's such a trivial thing.

Plus I have a cat, she thinks the toilet is her private fishing reserve.

Cleaning on a daily basis is just a matter of 'squirt, swish, spray, wipe and flush'.

Yeah, my toilet stays clean.

By: SpaceCadet

SpaceCadet — Fri, 08 Oct 2004 01:47:56 -0800

the most efficient solution is to leave the toilet as you used it. then, if the next use is the same, no effort is needed. if something needs to change, only the change necessary is needed. any other solution must be less efficient because you cannot predict what the next use will be and so may make a change which needs to be "undone".

We have an answer! It observes equality amongst the sexes, it shows a mutual respect amongst the sexes, and is the most efficient method of keeping everyone happy. Now anyone who disagrees with this answer is just looking for special privileges ;-)

By: sixdifferentways

sixdifferentways — Fri, 08 Oct 2004 02:21:31 -0800

I think this is the last bastion of chivalry. For one, it saves the lady from having to actually touch the icky seat, no? Well - with her hands, I mean.
Women never need the seat up, so I think it's up to men who live with a woman to get in the habit of putting it down. It's the expected default, and I could see where there could be an unexpected not-nice surprise if she wakes up for a mid-night trip to the loo in a sleepy, half-awake state and sits right down on the cold porcelain.
Plus from a pragmatic standpoint, it's easier to get in the habit of putting it down than deal with her displeasure from not acquiring the habit.

By: melissa may

melissa may — Fri, 08 Oct 2004 02:32:28 -0800

The undefeatable rebuttal: leave the damn thing down, fellas.

By: Orb

Orb — Fri, 08 Oct 2004 02:45:04 -0800

I don't walk into my kitchen in the morning, open two drawers and three cupboards and leave them there until my husband or I need to close one to open another.

Would you be willing to come educate my husband on the proper closing of kitchen cabinets? Please?! He just rummaged in the kitchen, and as I look in there now, three cabinets and one drawer have been left open ... and they will stay that way until I close them. :D

On the topic of toilets, I prefer both lid and seat down, but as you can imagine from my previous statement ... I have learned to look before leaping, as hubby doesn't have a good track record for closing things he opens. LOL!

By: biffa

biffa — Fri, 08 Oct 2004 03:00:25 -0800

Mothers against peeing standing up.

By: SpaceCadet

SpaceCadet — Fri, 08 Oct 2004 03:35:25 -0800

I think this is the last bastion of chivalry.

There's still room for chivalry in this age of gender equality?

By: caution live frogs

caution live frogs — Fri, 08 Oct 2004 05:55:04 -0800

soyjoy, you nailed that one - my cat stays away from the toilet most days, but my wife's cat for some reason loves the bathroom. (he likes to chew on floss and drink from "his" cup of water by the sink. he's cute but damn obnoxious. i don't actually let him swallow the floss, just bite through a strand or two.)

every morning i have to dance around to avoid pissing on his tail. not so easy when i'm not fully awake yet - he likes to rub on my leg, and shoves his big, fat bottle-brush feather duster of a tail right across the toilet bowl.

anyway after 14 total years of dating + marriage, leaving the seat and lid down is second nature to me. it just seems like a courtesy to my wife, and it keeps the cats from taking an unexpected bath when they hop up on the toilet to get a better look at what we're up to at the bathroom counter.

By: andrew cooke

andrew cooke — Fri, 08 Oct 2004 06:23:47 -0800

i'm starting to wonder just how much of people's lives is controlled by their cats.

By: occhiblu

occhiblu — Fri, 08 Oct 2004 09:53:33 -0800

Reading both this thread and the past one, you see how often men claim their aim is bad. So let's assume that a male in a household pees with the seat up. He is probably going to get urine on the rim of the toilet. The seat then gets put up and down, and whatever bacteria that start growing on the rim start, at least in my mind, throwing colonies up onto the underside of the lid. So a woman who comes in and has to touch the open seat in order to put it down then has to deal with touching dried urine and germs that really were not her fault.

That's always been my objection -- I don't want to touch that seat because whatever grossness is lurking there was not caused by me. And most men I know refuse to clean the toilet (even if they'll clean the rest of the bathroom without complaint) because they know it's gross, too.

By: SpaceCadet

SpaceCadet — Fri, 08 Oct 2004 17:53:41 -0800

Can somebody please explain to me the how the notion of "chivalry/doing the right thing for the lady in the house" can sit with equality amongst the sexes? If I say "do the right thing for the man, and keep the lid up!", I will be accused of sexism. Both comments are sexist in the egalitarian's eyes. Is that not a microcosm of one sex seeking privilege over the other? All I need is one person to tell me that I'm taking this too seriously, and that will be enough to trigger me to get the hell out of my country for another couple of months, back into exotic bliss....go on....somebody...do it.....I'm just needing the push....

By: occhiblu

occhiblu — Mon, 11 Oct 2004 16:46:12 -0800

You're never going to get equality 100% of the time, so I think the best you can do is make equal sacrifices. I think this might fall into that category.

By: onlyconnect

onlyconnect — Fri, 15 Oct 2004 13:45:33 -0800

The perfect solution for the late-night toilet run-ners who either miss the bowl or worry about falling in: the Lav-Nav Nightlight!