Poppa was a rolling stone, now he's a rock.

November 18, 2008 3:07 AM

A friend of mine is quite possibly a father of a nine year old girl in California. He'd laid up some with a woman who got pregnant and determined to have the child, told him to get the hell away from her, she didn't want him in her or the childs life anyways, so go buzz off, and my friend did buzz off. Nine years pass. He's very interested in that child now, he'd want to establish paternity first off -- Momma was sortof a sleaze, as he was at the time -- he wants to know if he is Daddy and if he is how does he find his daughter? Street word is that Momma had to give her up to CA social system.

So my buddy doesn't have a lot of money but he's wanting to know about that child, and if he can help her. Is he opening himself to a world of shit, is he going to walk into four hundred thousand dollars of debt, and is there any way he can find out beforehand? I know that You Are Not His Lawyer but maybe you do know a good attorney in CA who can help him with this, or maybe a non-profit social agency or ??? He opened up to me last night, and doesn't know where to turn, but he wants to know about her, he knows he may end up going to PTA meetings and he's open to that possibility, he just wants to find the way to step through this slowly and sensibly and intelligently -- where to go first, and why. I told him that I had this great resource where I can ask one question a week and get just awfully good, sound advice on anything from Apple computer operating systems to legal troubles of his sort -- was I right in that? Does anyone 'out there' in Hive Land know the Next Right Step in this proceding?

TIA.

posted by dancestoblue to human relations (16 comments total)

Expensive world of shit? Yes. Worth it? Probably. It strikes me that he won't have peace of mind until he resolves this.
posted by rotifer at 4:02 AM on November 18, 2008

He should first contact a California attorney specializing in family law in the area in California where he thinks the child may be.

Then he may want to contact California Department of Social Services. If the child is in the CA social system they will know where and will know what steps he needs to take next.

Social Services would know if there is a non profit agency in their area that can help him.

If this child is his and she is in the social service system, she really needs him. Good for him for considering stepping forward.
posted by Jandasmo at 4:22 AM on November 18, 2008 [1 favorite]

is he going to walk into four hundred thousand dollars of debt,

At least in my state (not California) if a father were to present himself nine years into the child's life, he would almost certainly be hit with an arrearage (back-due child support bill) dating back to the date the child was born. If the court sets the father's support at, say, $500 a month (which is not an unusual amount), he'd be looking at $6000 a year, times nine, which is $54,000. He would be obligated to pay toward his arrearage PLUS his current child support bill, and in my state, they are allowed to garnish up to 50% of his paycheck to satisfy these obligations.

But that's in my state, not California, so he needs to see a lawyer. But my guess is that he'd be facing something similar there.
posted by jayder at 5:50 AM on November 18, 2008

Not sure jayder's point applies in situations where the mother willfully told the father she didn;t want him involved.

Nonetheless, he should definitely contact an attorney.
posted by Brittanie at 6:36 AM on November 18, 2008

As far as I can tell being a non-lesbian non-parent Canadian, the mother or father cannot legally give up child support such as you describe Brittanie, because the support is not the parents' to give or take, it's the child's. I've heard this can be a problem with lesbians wanting a friend to father their child, is it is extremely hard to eliminate the obligation of child support even when all parties consent.
posted by Meagan at 6:45 AM on November 18, 2008 [1 favorite]

Is there any indication how long ago the child was taken in by social services? Has the Mom had her parental rights terminated (known as TPR)? If the child was taken in by social services, they will know what has happened. There are several scenarios and how he proceeds could depend on what has happened.

Let's assume the social services did take the child.
1. If TPR has not occurred, then Mom has a case plan which outlines what needs to be done for reunification. This means it would be an active case. He could present himself as a potential parent and request a DNA test for confirmation. If it is confirmed, welcome to a long interaction with social services which may lead to visitation, a background check, and more if he decides to place himself forward as a parent.

2. If the child, upon being taken into the foster care system, had another relative come forward, a kinship placement could have occurred. Depending upon what has happened with the case, the Mom may or may not have had TPR occur and the relative may or may not have been granted legal guardianship. If legal guardianship has been granted, then the child is permanently in the relative's home/family and this is not an active case. The child could be with a relative and the case could still be active. Hard to say without more information.

3. If TPR has occurred, it is entirely possible that the child has been or is in the process of being adopted. The adoptive family could be relatives (not the same as a legal guardian) or the adoptive family could be a family that fostered the child or was identified through the foster care system. (Some families only foster. Others foster and then adopt if the child becomes legally free for adoption.) If the adoption is not finalized, the case is still active. If the adoption is finalized, the case is no longer active. Regardless, the social worker will know who has the child. BTW, this process can take a couple of years.

In the scenarios where a family has been identified for the child and where the family has committed to the child, coming forward will impact more people than just the child. They may feel threatened that your friend may try to take the child from them if the DNA test is positive and he is the father. They may legally fight him on the basis of abandonment and the fact that the child does not know him. They will argue that the best interests of the child are served by them. That being said, your friend, if he is proved to be the father, may be able to establish a relationship with the family and eventually the child.

No matter what, for the child, it may be very confusing. He may have to explain why he did leave 9 years ago. He may have to explain what would prevent him from leaving again. The child will wonder "if you love me then why did you leave?"

Start with contacting a lawyer. Then contact social services. Request a DNA test. If positive, work with social services to determine the best approach to the situation. If the child is in a permanent placement, your friend should consider writing an open letter to the parents first. Explain who you are and why you're reaching out. Understand that if an adoption is finalized your friend has no real hop of overturning it. However, he can ask for an open adoption which would allow some level of contact. It may be that he will only get an annual update letter with pictures. It may be that he eventually gets some visitation.

Good luck. It is going to be a roller coaster.
posted by onhazier at 6:50 AM on November 18, 2008 [2 favorites]

Not sure jayder's point applies in situations where the mother willfully told the father she didn;t want him involved.

But can he prove that that's the case? What if it turns into a "he said, she said" situation wherein the mother ("sort of a sleaze, at the time", subjective I know but it's what we have to go on) says, "I begged him to stay and the next thing I knew he was on a plane for Monterrey?" At that point the mother says one thing, the father says another, and I have no idea how the courts would hash that out but I'd bet it would result in child support.

Not a lawyer or anything, just seems like a verbal agreement with a possibly shady person 9 years ago might not hold up, and if she is in fact a sleaze then she's not likely to maintain said distance when there's child support $ on the line.
posted by baphomet at 6:53 AM on November 18, 2008

This is a recipe for disaster. Wait 9 more years and the child will be 18 and can make her own decision. This really will be opening that famous pandora's box. I would suggest you rethink this idea you have.
posted by JayRwv at 7:04 AM on November 18, 2008

If the mom had to give her up, yeah, you'd want to find out if she had to terminate parental rights. They may have actually tried to find him, in a halfhearted way; I know that in Wisconsin, you sometimes see legal notices summoning a potential dad by name or by "any potential father of J. D., female born 08/27/06, conception date range xxx-xxx, conception place xxx". Phew. And yet he probably didn't see it, because if he were a) somewhere else or b) had no reason to notice something like that, it's easy to miss.

He sounds like he wants to do the right thing. He may have a very scared little girl on his hands. Is he prepared to try his best to be a dad? It's worth it, but he shouldn't get into this unless he's open to the possibility of being a full-on dad in every way.

JayRwv, you want to talk about a Pandora's Box? How about a kid who got to semi-adulthood without feeling like she had any adult around who could connect her to who she really is? If she has any chance of some sort of normalcy, even if it's with a dad who can't afford much but who wants the best for her, she should get it as soon as she can.
posted by Madamina at 7:19 AM on November 18, 2008

As a kid who was denied her dad for a few years and the sister of kids denied them for many more, I'd say he should go through with looking for her.

Yeah, it might be uncomfortable or difficult or awkward, but that's sometimes what making a kid ends up being, especially when one gives in to youthful drama and walks away without settling anything legally.

She might not be happy to see him, that's true. But at least give her the opportunity to know that there may be another person out there who is interested in her destiny, in her happiness. He is interested in those things, right? This isn't just curiosity about what he may have created or to soothe his own ego? If he's not sure, he should get hold of a counselor familiar with family issues and give it a few sessions before moving forward.

The questionable paternity issue is sticky. Getting a kid's hopes up after they've been in the system only to crash them down again because the mom wasn't clear on the partner? Rugged. Could your friend bear being an involved, caring contact if she ends up not being his biological daughter? Because showing up then saying, "ooh, yay, not my problem!" and walking off isn't going to help her overcome this difficult beginning.

To the rest of your (friend's) questions...

He's probably already been to the California CDSS site, but maybe not - it has a calculator for figuring child support to see what that might look like if it isn't taken into account that he was pushed away. They also have a paternity-determination program (may only apply to infants, but worth looking into) and plenty of forms and other resources. I think the one he might be most interested in is the ability to request public records - it might be the easiest way to find out the child's true situation, or at least determine what is unknowable without going for full contact.

The Father's Rights category at Open Directory Project is fairly robust, with many resources and references. And it doesn't charge you $50 to look through it all (if you want to spend that, there's always NFRC).

Good luck to your friend, and good luck to that poor kid.
posted by batmonkey at 7:42 AM on November 18, 2008 [1 favorite]

DCSS, dangit.
posted by batmonkey at 7:43 AM on November 18, 2008

Get a lawyer, it is very hard to say. It's particularly hard to say because more or less every decision made will be made "in the best interest of the child" which is an incredibly fluid standard so what a lawyer is going to be able to tell you is how other similarly situated fathers have been treated by the system. Also, in CA after a certain amount of a time a child who is in the foster care system is automatically (but this can be stopped by a going to a judge in a lot of case) put up for adoption under the law. So time may be of the essence if he is interested in custody or possibly even a relationship with the child. So no time like the present to contact a lawyer.

I am a lawyer (more or less), but not a lawyer barred in CA and the only knowledge I have a of CA family law is anecdotal based upon friends who have gone through the system. So seriously you need to get a lawyer, this question is too complex and there are too many variables for it to be adequately addressed here or likely anywhere online.
posted by whoaali at 9:14 AM on November 18, 2008

the mother or father cannot legally give up child support ... because the support is not the parents' to give or take, it's the child's.

In my experience, this is exactly right. The fact that a father was "pushed away" means nothing. An obligation to support one's child is regarded as absolute.

And the thing to keep in mind is that the child support laws tend to err on the side of more support for children. So even when the result seems manifestly unjust, inequitable, and oppressive (which the result certainly is with fathers whose hourly wage is barely above minimum wage who get 50% of their checks garnished ... believe me, it happens) the courts will enforce the laws regardless of their apparent oppressiveness. I've had clients who didn't have a high school diploma saddled with a $100,000+ arrearage.
posted by jayder at 5:18 PM on November 18, 2008

I am not your lawyer and this is not legal advice...

In Texas, he'd be hit for the previous 4 years of child support. In CA, I don't know.

If he doesn't want to pay any money, he can wait (until she's 22 in Texas) and then start the relationship.

I would probably start with The California Family Code.

But yes, he would want to hire a lawyer and I imagine that would run him around 5,000 if there isn't a fight and perhaps 20,000 if there is. That's not including whatever child support is involved.


However, why not look up "parenting classes". Does this guy have a kid? He needs to prove he can be a parent. Maybe it wouldn't be too challenging to get some sort of visitation. It depends on the judge. And as a previous poster said, it's not about what the parent wants, it's about whats best for the child. Be prepared to payout for psychologist reports and random 3rd party fees.
posted by abdulf at 9:59 PM on November 18, 2008

Step 1. Is it his kid?
In any event - always a good thing to know. The children's services thing might be a vicious rumor? She might turn out to be his but maybe she's safe and sound with her Grandma? I don't think that you just automatically get slammed for unpaid child support either... This hypothetical Grandma might be an agreeable sort of lady, happy to just work something out and go from there? Who knows?

If it were me... I'd start by contacting Children's Services. "There's a little girl, I don't even know if she's mine... but I've heard that she might be in trouble? So where do we even start?" They might be helpful but don't be shocked if they're a bunch of dicks. Take a deep breath, just stay calm and make them actually help you. They 'can't help you with that' - but they know who can. (It's just a game, with patience and persistence any very simple request you have can suddenly become within their scope.)

Lawyers worth a damn, are expensive... you'll probably need one at some point though. Again, if it were me, I'd proceed with caution on my own and try to hold off bringing out my big guns until the last (??billed by the second??) minute.

Goodluck :)
posted by mu~ha~ha~ha~har at 8:20 AM on November 19, 2008

No offense to muha, but I feel I need to say that I think it would be a huge mistake to simply call up social services and say hey I could be the dad without consulting a lawyer about your legal rights (and possible back child support) before proceeding forward. Simply getting a lawyer's advice, as a preliminary matter, about what your legal rights and responsibilities shouldn't be that expensive. And there is a very good chance spending a little money right now could save you A LOT of money down the road. The are lawyers who do this kind of thing everyday and will know the ins and outs of the family court system. A good family lawyer, who regularly deals with custody issues and child services, will be able to quickly answer all your questions and then tell you the answers to questions you didn't ask, but should have.
posted by whoaali at 1:33 PM on November 19, 2008