I'm Terrible with (In)decisions.

November 10, 2008 5:06 PM

Help me decide if I want this 98 Neon to be the first car I buy, for use in the rest of this year of high school, and college next year.

I'm looking to buy my first real car. I've been driving a beat up 1992 Ford Tempo that my dad bought for me to use for like $800 for the past two years or so now. I've been browsing Craigslist and the local classifieds for a few weeks now, and recently found a car that interested me.

I found a 1998 Dodge Neon with ~85k miles on it. It's a five speed, and it's in very good condition. There's 2 very, very small dings on it, one scratched a dime-sized bit of the paint off, the other is literally not noticeable unless you run your hand along the entire body. The interior seems nice.

It bluebooks at ~$2050 Kelly Blue Book, and it's probably a upper-level "Good" condition car. Not excellent, but very good.

I took it in to see our mechanic today (a good friend of ours) and he said the car was in surprisingly good condition for a sporty, ten year-old five-speed. ( "Most sporty 5-speeds I get this old are.... let's just say the owner had some fun with them." ) He said the timing belt would need to be replaced pretty soon, since he can't tell how old this one is, and a snapped one would be very bad. He expects the catalytic converter to crack or break in about 25k miles. He says the brakes have another 30k in them easily, probably a bit more if any of those miles are highway miles. I'll probably offer $2100 for the car.

I need this car for the remainder of this school year and summer, primarily for driving to school (4 miles away), work (3 miles away), and work (7 miles away), and for the next couple years (as many as I can pull out of it) for college. I'm either attending the University of Arizona, or Stanford University (if I get in, chances are *never* good with things like that). UA is about 70 miles north, and I'd probably make a trip back home twice a month. While I'm on campus, I expect my car would get very little use. Also, I have a couple of good friends up there, we'd probably trade rides back home instead of taking every car we have back. If I end up at Stanford, I'll sell the car to my dad, and not take a car to school.

My resignations are: pretty bad safety ratings (Here). I've already had a friend from high school (now a sophomore at ASU) get in a fairly bad wreck coming home for a long weekend. Now, it was his fault, he was driving late at night and quite tired, apparently. I'm a very conservative driver, don't speed (more than 1-2 over, at least), and pay attention. Also, I want this car to at least last me 2-3 years, preferably to graduation. My dad says that if I save for the rest of this year and get to 3.5-4k spendable money, I can buy a car that'll last me longer, but I'm not convinced. 85k/1998 is hard to beat at this amount. Also, the Neon gets 32/42 mpg city/hwy. (:

So, concerned mothers, college students, car junkies, anyone... what do you think?

posted by Precision to travel & transportation (29 comments total)

Sounds like you've already done your homework pretty well. How many miles do you want to put on it before you're ready to get rid of it? Some kind of estimate of yearly mileage would be helpful here.

Chances are about the time some of those repairs come due in 25 or 30 thousand miles, there'll be lots of other parts falling out and it may be ready for junking. If that's enough to get you through college, it's probably okay.

I'll back up the mechanic on the timing belt, though. I had a Corsica whose belt broke around 95000 miles and destroyed the engine. Would have cost ~$2500 to drop in a new one. If you get the car, change the belt as soon as you can spare the cash.
posted by echo target at 5:21 PM on November 10, 2008

I've never had a Neon, but they have a reputation for being really cheaply made.
This one sounds like it's in pretty good shape, but keep your eye out for a Japanese car of the same age: Those things will run for a whole lot longer than the 85k + 30k that echo target mentioned.
posted by dunkadunc at 5:28 PM on November 10, 2008

Hm. I figure I put about 100 miles a week on my car now. Let's say 125 to be safe. So ~43 weeks til college. 43 * 123 = 5,375 miles from now til September'ish 2009.

After that, 140 miles twice a month for trips back home. Not planning on getting an off-campus job, planning on car-pooling a lot. Probably going to head in to Phoenix to see some concerts. Let's say three times a year (probably a lot more, but we'll carpool like mad). That's 250 miles roundtrip * 3 = 750. Average 30 miles/wk. (seriously) misc. use while on campus.

140 * 9 = 1,260
250 * 3 = 750
30 * 40 = 1,200

3 months of summer, 125 miles a week, 13 weeks, 1,625 miles.

Total estimate mileage per year in college: 4,835 miles/year.

Ideally, I'd like to keep it until the summer before my senior year in college or even until the summer after I graduate. I live near an army post where a good bit of intel work is done, so it's not incredibly hard to get summer internships at $18/hour if you're a hard science or engineering major. If I take care of this car, how much do you think I'll have to spend on maintenance with those usage patterns?
posted by Precision at 5:33 PM on November 10, 2008

I'd love a Honda or Toyota, but a same year, same mileage car of that make bluebooks between 5 and 6 thousand.

I understand that they'd probably give me more mileage, so maybe I shouldn't be looking at 85k Hondas? I don't really know, what's the equivalent mileage in "Japanese Miles" to the 85k on this Neon?

My dad can't give me a good example of a Japanese car that bluebooks at 3-4.5k that looks much better than this one, can you? I'm sure my dad knows what he's talking about, but it's been a while since he's bought a car. What should I look for in that price range?
posted by Precision at 5:37 PM on November 10, 2008

I say no.

Here's why: while the car may seem like a good deal (although never offer more than KBB, what are you nuts?), you don't really seem to need a car above and beyond the Tempo. You only drive a few miles, so the increased gas milage won't benefit you beyond what you lose with the purchase price; you don't really need it for college; the Neon doesn't have much more in the way of safety; it's going to need work pretty soon, which runs into money; and finally, your dad is right. Case in point: my sister just got a 2000 Mystic with leather, sunroof, and 50,000 miles in your dad's projected price range.

It's always exciting to purchase your first real car, but don't let that excitement rush you into something that doesn't make sense long term.

But if you're set on getting a newer car, here's a hint for a cheaper Japanese alternative: the Pontiac Vibe is a Toyota Corolla re-badged.
posted by luckypozzo at 5:43 PM on November 10, 2008 [1 favorite]

85k/1998 is hard to beat at this amount.

Agreed. Have you had a chance to look at Saturns, Hyundais, or Kias too? You might be able to do better.

I would re-ask your question at this active Neon forum. Ask them what typical parts need to be replaced on this car, aside from whats in the maintenance schedule. You must ask the owner what maintenance he's done and if he's followed the manual's recommendations. He should be able to provide receipts and documentation. Usually by 85k he's replaced trans fluid, spark plugs, O2 sensors, PCV, filters, random emergency repairs, etc.
posted by damn dirty ape at 5:43 PM on November 10, 2008

Don't even consider a Kia of that vintage. I'd rather walk to work on bloody stumps than have to rely on a '98 Kia. The two I personally knew spent more time in the shop than out, the first six months off the showroom.
posted by notsnot at 5:55 PM on November 10, 2008

I've actually owned two Neons (long story involving an ex); one was a 95 and one was a 98. They were okay cars for the most part, but one problem peculiar to the Neon is a defect in the design of the engine block that can (and did for me, both times) cause the head gasket to blow. This is basically the worst thing that can happen to an engine with an overhead cam, is catastrophic and will definitely ruin your day. Depending on the price your depending on paying, rebuilding an engine after a head gasket goes can be as much as a quarter of your original asking price.

I would not buy another Neon. I would look at Subarus, Toyotas and Hondas of similar vintage (even with slightly higher mileage) long before I'd get a Neon. My current daily driver is a 1998 Subaru Legacy with lots of miles. My wife and I got it used for a song, and it's been a fantastic car which I use on a 1+ hour commute every day.

As far as an import that looks better in that price range, I would advise you look at a 95 Civic. And, if you want to get technical about it, the Neon is essentially an import; the engine is of Mitsubishi design built in Canada as is most of the rest of the driveline and almost all of the body.
posted by littlerobothead at 5:57 PM on November 10, 2008

Consumer Reports lists '97-'99 Dodge Neon on its "Vehicles to Avoid" list. The ratings in the guide I have are '05 (last year it was made, I think) to '01, but '01 has a big black dot (worst) for Body Integrity (and audio, but that's probably not important), and other years ('02 to '05) give black dots for Transmission, "Engine, minor," and brakes. For the few cars I've driven (and based on what my family has said on past cars), Consumer Reports is pretty accurate in these surveys.

"There's 2 very, very small dings on it, one scratched a dime-sized bit of the paint off"

Is it down to bare metal? I'd be worried about rust. (I may be biased because I drive by a Neon parked in someone's driveway with the roof covered in rust... Not saying that Neons are prone to rust, I have no clue.)

"He said the timing belt would need to be replaced pretty soon, since he can't tell how old this one is, and a snapped one would be very bad. He expects the catalytic converter to crack or break in about 25k miles. He says the brakes have another 30k in them easily"

I'm not really a car person, but "expects to break in 25K miles" scares me, if only because 25K miles will probably sneak up on you much sooner than expected. However...

"I'll probably offer $2100 for the car."

For a car that will need a lot of work done to it down the road, I wouldn't offer to pay more than the KBB.

"I've already had a friend from high school (now a sophomore at ASU) get in a fairly bad wreck coming home for a long weekend. Now, it was his fault, he was driving late at night and quite tired, apparently."

While people like us are surely less accident-prone, that doesn't stop a bad driver from crashing into us... Safety's still important, you're just a little less likely to test its crash handling. ;)

"My dad says that if I save for the rest of this year and get to 3.5-4k spendable money, I can buy a car that'll last me longer, but I'm not convinced."

That looks to be about what a '98-ish Corolla goes for (from a quick Craigslist search), which Consumer Reports seems to love. I know several people with Corollas and Camrys (Camries?) with over 200K miles on them, and who have pretty much never had any problems.

Anyway, my goal isn't to say "Go for it" or "Don't get the Neon!" Just to give you a few things to consider.

Oh, have you considered insurance? I did all the numbers a few years ago, and was practically all set to buy a car, before I realized that insurance on it would be a huge increase, to the point that I kept my old clunker a bit longer.
posted by fogster at 5:57 PM on November 10, 2008

luckypozzo,

I agree to a certain extent. I don't need anything beyond the Tempo right now. However, the Tempo cannot be driven on the highway. Seriously. It has 260k miles (seriously!) and one time I tried to drive it to Tucson and it broke down 1/3 the way there. I don't remember what my mechanic said was wrong with it, but he seemed to think it wasn't worth getting to the point where it would be reliable driving 70 miles on the highway. I do need a new car, if not now, before college. My parents' income is decent, but they haven't been, nor will they be, able to buy, or even help significantly in buying, me a car. I work at Target for $7.50 an hour. I alternate between working 12 hour weeks and 26 hour weeks. I'm a full time high school student. I tutor 5 hours a week at $12/hour.

I've been saving for a while, and, admittedly, I haven't saved near as much as I should have, but college seemed so far off when I was a sophomore. I'm going to need to buy a car of my own by July of 2009. I have a full scholarship to University of Arizona, and I'm applying for another outside scholarship which, if I won it, would give me 7k/year spending money. If I win it, I'm dropping 8-12k on a very reliable 2003+ Japanese car, and selling whatever I'm driving at the time. If not (and let's assume not), I'll need a car under 4.5k (my Target hours drop to 12/week during tennis season, if that).
posted by Precision at 6:07 PM on November 10, 2008

Yeah, I don't know what I'm thinking. I guess I'll offer $2,000?
posted by Precision at 6:12 PM on November 10, 2008

Precision, considering the buyer's market right now, offer $1600. You can always go up. Your goal should be to pay as little for the car as possible.
posted by luckypozzo at 6:24 PM on November 10, 2008

No offense, but the Neon is a shitmobile.

You can get a Honda Accord or a boxy (pre-1999) Volvo for around the same price with less miles and much more reliability.
posted by plexi at 6:27 PM on November 10, 2008

No one I know who has owned a Neon was happy with it. They were cheap and crummy when they were new, and they haven't improved with age. I used to get them all the time as rentals, and they were really unimpressive cars to drive. Buzzy and harsh riding, without much in the way of acceleration or handling, poor ergonomics, etc. They were sold as slightly cheaper alternatives for people who might otherwise have bought a Civic, but the Civics turned out to age well and keep their value, and the Neons did neither.

That said, I think you are successfully talking yourself into the car, so I hope you are happy with it when you buy it.

Price-wise, how much is that Neon worth with a new timing belt? Don't offer a penny over that price, minus the cost of the timing belt. (Meaning, with made up numbers: repaired Neon could sell for $2200, timing belt would cost $600, so don't pay more than $1600.)

Because the car will cost you whatever you pay to buy it, plus the cost of the mandatory and expensive timing belt (and while your mechanic is in there, will he suggest replacing the water pump or anything else?), plus whatever else it will need: how new are the tires? Radiator, belts and hoses? AC ever been serviced? If it's on its first clutch, get a quote from your mechanic for a replacement and figure that into your budget in the next year or two, also.

Personally, I think that if you have a running car now, you should wait until either it dies, or your situation changes (eg you are heading off to school next month) before spending all your money on a new car. And your father is right -- for a bit more money you could buy something that isn't a Neon, you know? So it's not like you are missing out on the car deal of the century here.
posted by Forktine at 6:28 PM on November 10, 2008

I just have to back everyone else up who says to look for a Japanese make car of near the same vintage. I had a 1994 Honda Accord that, before it was stolen and totaled, I'm confident would have run forever. You should be able to find a civic of near that vintage for not too much more....I'd get one with a little more than 85K miles on it if I had to. Also, knowing the status of the timing belt is very important. maybe get a car right after the seller has replaced the timing belt (and has the receipt to prove it). I drive a '98 Volvo and while I like it, and the safety record for Volvos can't be beat, I'm not sure that I'd recommend it just because the repairs aren't cheap. Best of luck to you in your search.
posted by fieldtrip at 6:56 PM on November 10, 2008

http://www.kbb.com/KBB/UsedCars/PricingReport.aspx?YearId=1998&Mileage=85000&VehicleClass=UsedCar&ManufacturerId=18&ModelId=123&PriceType=Private+Party&VehicleId=6600&SelectionHistory=6600|29356|85635|0|0|&Condition=Good&QuizConditions=

1998 Honda Civic, identical miles. No frills or extras. 5k. I'm reeeeeally looking to get it under 4.5k. I can see myself saving up to there, but honestly not much higher. Can anyone bluebook a car around 4.25k that would be more reliable than a Neon? With reasonable and realistic age/mileage. I wish I could.
posted by Precision at 7:16 PM on November 10, 2008

No one I know who has owned a Neon was happy with it.

I'm happy with mine. I'm still driving my 96 Neon. We're crazy about car maintenance in my family, so she's purring along just fine.

I've never caused an accident, but I've had things crash into me at low speeds, and the car's held up perfectly okay. I've been rear-ended several times (once by a Mack truck who slipped off his brake while in stopped traffic!) and in that instance didn't even need a new bumper, except for aesthetics. And because of the bad rep and the high number of Neons on the road, replacement parts are almost always available at the junkyard.

Compared to some other cars, yeah, you hear more road noise. I'm not really very fussy about that sort of thing, though. And yeah, the gas mileage is good and I find it easy to parallel park.
posted by desuetude at 7:31 PM on November 10, 2008

What about a Miata? They're very reliable, and you can find them with low mileage and in good condition since they're more of a weekend type car than a daily driver.
posted by MegoSteve at 7:54 PM on November 10, 2008

A 1999 Honda Accord DX, auto transmission, 90k miles, shows up on KBB as $4300 in "good" condition, for example. Or a 1998 Toyota Camry CE, auto, 90k, good condition, for $4160. (Both from KBB, here is the link for the Camry.)

Don't forget to have a chat with your insurance agent about the costs to insure the various cars you are considering -- the last time I was car shopping, there was a shocking difference in the cost to insure a car they considered safer relative to another.
posted by Forktine at 7:59 PM on November 10, 2008

Can anyone bluebook a car around 4.25k that would be more reliable than a Neon?

2000 Saturn SC1 should run around 4k.
posted by damn dirty ape at 8:04 PM on November 10, 2008

I would look at Subarus

And I would not, depending on the engine. The 2.5L Subaru engine of that time is very prone to head gasket failure.
posted by zsazsa at 8:28 PM on November 10, 2008

I had a Neon back in college; I can't remember what year it was; I think it was a 95-96. People warned me that Neons were shit and I didn't listen (because it was soooo cute). And that car truly was a piece of shit and made my life so complicated- I needed that car to get around, and when it didn't work, what could I do? I was stuck- far away from any other form of reliable transportation or a support system to help me out. I cannot in good faith suggest you get a Neon.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 9:22 PM on November 10, 2008 [1 favorite]

Not to frighten you, or anybody else, but consider that Chrysler may well be on the verge of going out of business. If that happens it might be a struggle to get parts.
posted by LastOfHisKind at 5:55 AM on November 11, 2008

And I would not, depending on the engine. The 2.5L Subaru engine of that time is very prone to head gasket failure.
The 1998 model had that problem, I believe they fixed it for 1999.

And yes, the paint on Neons peels like you wouldn't believe.
posted by dunkadunc at 7:12 AM on November 11, 2008

I have never paid more than four thousand or so for a car, and have had very good luck buying Honda/Nissan cars which are older/higher mileage in the under four thousand dollar price range. Meanwhile, my family members buy later model, lower mileage American cars of various flavors, and have abysmal luck. I would look for an older, higher mileage Honda, Toyota, Mazda, or Nissan in the two-three thousand dollar range. If it is mechanically sound, you can safely drive an older Honda Civic to infinity and beyond. Seriously, I bought a '91 Honda Civic with 130,000 miles on it a few years ago, put 30,000 more miles on it, and passed it on to some younger siblings to abuse - and it is still going strong (maintenance repairs only, no breakdowns).
posted by Wavelet at 8:06 AM on November 11, 2008

And yes, the paint on Neons peels like you wouldn't believe.

What are you people doing to your cars? Mine sits on a city street all day in South Philly. It's a little dinged up at this point, but the paint is in pretty good shape.
posted by desuetude at 9:14 AM on November 11, 2008

My husband owned a 96 neon when we got married and we both loved that car. I eventually sold it to my dad who also loved it. Its easy to work on and easy to maintain.

We did have to replace the engine because of a blown head gasket, but it was really pretty inexpensive because rebuilt neon engines are generally easy to find. FWIW - I'm not sure the head gasket issue was still a problem in 98, I think they identified the problem and fixed it.

I'm actually planning on buying another one in the range of what you're looking at - to use for a 70+ mile daily highway commute.
posted by CorporateHippy at 1:11 PM on November 11, 2008

"...one problem peculiar to the Neon is a defect in the design of the engine block that can (and did for me, both times) cause the head gasket to blow. This is basically the worst thing that can happen to an engine with an overhead cam, is catastrophic and will definitely ruin your day. Depending on the price your depending on paying, rebuilding an engine after a head gasket goes can be as much as a quarter of your original asking price."

When my '99 Neon blew the head gasket, just after the warranty expired (of course), Chrysler replaced it for free anyway. Apparently they do that sometimes. But I wouldn't expect that for a '98 with 85k miles.

Rumor has it that most of the head gasket failures were in the 40-80k range, so the one you're looking at might have already had it fixed, if you're lucky.

Chrysler changed the design to solve this problem, but it was during the '99 model year, so yours will have the old design (as did mine, even though it was a '99).

I liked my Neon a lot, but I sold it when it was at, oh, 65k or so. It was a cute little car and always reliable for me. As people mentioned above, it is a little noisy, but I always had the stereo up loud anyway.
posted by litlnemo at 2:02 AM on November 12, 2008

That wasn't all supposed to be italic. Forgive me. :)
posted by litlnemo at 2:02 AM on November 12, 2008