Landlord recording conversations

November 9, 2008 10:29 PM

I just found out my landlord has been secretly taping our conversations. She uses a tape recorder hidden in her purse. The landlord is in the process of evicting another tenant of the building and has asked the court to bring in tapes of conversations as evidence. The judge gave her forms to fill out so she can get the tape recorder and tapes past security.

I live in Illinois which is a two-party consent state. (both parties have to agree to be recorded and informed of the recording). I plan on showing up in court during my neighbors eviction hearing. If the landlord does play a tape of one of my conversations (she stated to the judge she has recorded evidence from "another tenant") what can I do about it? Do I go to the cops with a trial transcript ? Do I talk to a lawyer? Do I ask the judge to take the tapes into evidence?

posted by anonymous to law & government (21 comments total)

Uh... why are you showing up in court? Are you a witness? Have you been subpoenaed? Does this court proceeding actually concern you, or are you just angry that you were recorded without consent?

Try talking to a lawyer, but I think unless you are a party to the case, it's unlikely you'll be able to do anything about it.
posted by wfrgms at 10:45 PM on November 9, 2008

Are you sure that it's against the law to tape somebody in person without their consent (as opposed to taping a phone conversation)?

I thought such "two-party consent" laws applied to phone conversations. What you tape in person, on the other hand, is different, I thought. If you're out in public conversing with someone, it doesn't make sense to outlaw recording them without their knowledge, since, after all, they're in public.

I haven't researched it, but you may want to make sure you're right about the law before you go into court asserting your right not to be recorded without consent.
posted by jayder at 11:01 PM on November 9, 2008

Not sure about your main question, but this is probably a good time to start documenting everything with your landlord and communicating solely through written word.

The last thing you want is for hasty words to come back to bite you in the arse.
posted by roshy at 11:03 PM on November 9, 2008

The law applies to both telephone and in-person conversations. [LINK]
posted by JonB at 11:40 PM on November 9, 2008 [1 favorite]

I don't know much about the law in your state, but I would suggest that you think about the consequences of pissing off your landlord while you are still living in the building. Not exactly sure the rest of your stay will be a pleasant one.
posted by wile e at 12:01 AM on November 10, 2008 [1 favorite]

You want to talk to the other tenant's lawyer about this. It's up to him/her to do something about it.

As for your own situation, you should be careful showing up at your neighbor's hearing and siding with your neighbor in front of your landlord. You and your neighbor both stand to gain nothing from you actually being there in court. Since you are not a lawyer, witness, or party in the case, you've got absolutely no say.

Further, it's likely then that your landlord will have it out for you, and unless you are planning on moving and not getting back your security deposit because of "repainting due to nail holes in walls," and "professional steam cleaning of floors," ad nauseam, you probably don't want that.

I would just be very careful what I said to the landlord from now on. I don't know about the legality of it, but if it is legal, it's a smart move on her part because the rental business so often turns into a he-said / she-said dispute when things go badly. In my experience, the courts side with the landlord, but that's not always the case.
posted by zhivota at 12:08 AM on November 10, 2008

If your landlord is taping your calls, she already has it out for you. You still want to lawyer up.
posted by dunkadunc at 3:10 AM on November 10, 2008

So start recording *her*. Perhaps she'll be goaded into saying something incriminating on the assumption that she can trash the tape.

Then you can give your version to your *lawyer*.
posted by jeremias at 4:48 AM on November 10, 2008 [1 favorite]

So start recording *her*. Perhaps she'll be goaded into saying something incriminating on the assumption that she can trash the tape.

This is bad advice. Didn't you ever hear? Two wrongs don't make a right. If you're questioning the legality of an action, it's probably best not to perform the same action in the event it's deemed illegal.
posted by nitsuj at 4:54 AM on November 10, 2008

It's good to read the statutes. I guess the Landlord would throw out:

(720 ILCS 5/14‑3)
Sec. 14‑3. Exemptions. The following activities shall be exempt from the provisions of this Article:
(i) Recording of a conversation made by or at the request of a person, not a law enforcement officer or agent of a law enforcement officer, who is a party to the conversation, under reasonable suspicion that another party to the conversation is committing, is about to commit, or has committed a criminal offense against the person or a member of his or her immediate household, and there is reason to believe that evidence of the criminal offense may be obtained by the recording;

That's probably not true, but without knowing what the other tenant was up to, it's possible.

You'll like this part:

(720 ILCS 5/14‑4) (from Ch. 38, par. 14‑4)
Sec. 14‑4. Sentence.
(a) Eavesdropping, for a first offense, is a Class 4 felony and, for a second or subsequent offense, is a Class 3 felony.
(720 ILCS 5/14‑5) (from Ch. 38, par. 14‑5)

Sec. 14‑5. Evidence inadmissible.
Any evidence obtained in violation of this Article is not admissible in any civil or criminal trial, or any administrative or legislative inquiry or proceeding, nor in any grand jury proceedings; provided, however, that so much of the contents of an alleged unlawfully intercepted, overheard or recorded conversation as is clearly relevant, as determined as a matter of law by the court in chambers, to the proof of such allegation may be admitted into evidence in any criminal trial or grand jury proceeding brought against any person charged with violating any provision of this Article.
(Source: Laws 1965, p. 3198.)

(720 ILCS 5/14‑6) (from Ch. 38, par. 14‑6)
Sec. 14‑6. Civil remedies to injured parties. (1) Any or all parties to any conversation upon which eavesdropping is practiced contrary to this Article shall be entitled to the following remedies:
(a) To an injunction by the circuit court prohibiting further eavesdropping by the eavesdropper and by or on behalf of his principal, or either;
(b) To all actual damages against the eavesdropper or his principal or both;
(c) To any punitive damages which may be awarded by the court or by a jury;
(d) To all actual damages against any landlord, owner or building operator, or any common carrier by wire who aids, abets, or knowingly permits the eavesdropping concerned;
(e) To any punitive damages which may be awarded by the court or by a jury against any landlord, owner or building operator, or common carrier by wire who aids, abets, or knowingly permits the eavesdropping concerned.
(2) No cause of action shall lie in any court against any common carrier by wire or its officers, agents or employees for providing information, assistance or facilities in accordance with the terms of a court order entered under Article 108A of the Code of Criminal Procedure of 1963.
(Source: P.A. 85‑868.)

I am not a lawyer, have never been to lawschool, have never been in a courtroom outside of traffic court. If you think that someone is breaking criminal and civil law, get a lawyer and/or call the cops.
posted by a robot made out of meat at 5:27 AM on November 10, 2008

I would mention it to the other tenant's lawyer so he can question the legality of the evidence if presented and I would be very friggin careful what i said around my building and to my landlord. I would not want to live in a builkding where the landlord is taping your conversations. YMMV.
posted by JohnnyGunn at 5:42 AM on November 10, 2008 [1 favorite]

Wfrgms brings up a good point regarding subpeona, in Philly the housing court is in the Municipal Court building and you can't even get through the front door of that place without a piece of paper from the court saying exactly when you're supposed to be there.
posted by The Straightener at 5:43 AM on November 10, 2008

I'm no expert on US law, so my advice is: move.
posted by mippy at 5:48 AM on November 10, 2008 [4 favorites]

While I don't think moving is a bad idea, I don't really agree with all of the hand-waving over getting a lawyer for yourself right now. You haven't been hurt by your landlord's actions, and I doubt you really want to bring a cause of action against her, since the most you could hope for is punitive damages, which are unlikely. Sure, tell the cops if you feel moved to, and be careful what you say around her in the future, but I wouldn't lawyer up at this point.
posted by craven_morhead at 7:09 AM on November 10, 2008

Why do you think the judge will allow evidence collected in an illegal manner. The tenant's lawyer will know what to do a lot better than you. That's his job. Perhaps you should let them handle their own problems? You shouldnt be considering some kind of vigilante path until the actual trial has, you know, finished.
posted by damn dirty ape at 7:44 AM on November 10, 2008

Upon reread and further thought, it sounds to me as if you are regretting whatever it is you said to the landlord. Did you say something bad about he tenant in question and you are afraid it will come out in court while at the same time you have been all supportive to that tenant's face?


If that is the case, speak to the landlord and tell her that you are in a bind with this and knowing that these tapings are illegal, you would appreciate her not even making the effort ot have them heard in court.

Then move.
posted by JohnnyGunn at 8:04 AM on November 10, 2008

I don't know much about the law in your state, but I would suggest that you think about the consequences of pissing off your landlord...

That's an understandable reaction, HOWEVER, consider that if she's willing to do this with one her tenants, she would be willing to do that to you. I once watched as my neighbor was evicted. The landlord said he wanted to move a relative in (which was acceptable at the time under the Los Angeles' rent control law). However, a relative never moved in. When the landlord came to me a few months later and gave me the same reason I just said "Uh huh," closed the door, and called a rent control lawyer. Let's just say the city attorney of Los Angeles was very interested in taking the sleaze landlord to court.
posted by Taken Outtacontext at 8:29 AM on November 10, 2008

Creepy. A landlord who's taping conversations is likely a more adversarial individual. Be unusually cautious in your dealings with such a person. Keep your conversations minimal and accurate. If anything comes up in conversation that causes alarm, just say, "Why don't we deal with this in writing, so we have a good, mutual record of our understanding."

To those who say Move, my response is that you shouldn't be forced from your home by a landlord being creepy. I used to be a landlord. Be reasonable, pay your rent in full, on time, and expect your landlord to allow you to live in peace.
posted by theora55 at 9:14 AM on November 10, 2008

robot kinda beat me to it--i don't think the landlord will be able to actually play the tapes in court, as this is a civil proceeding and they aren't legally made. in my experience with small claims court and landlord/tenant issues, the judge will actually be a bit annoyed that the landlord wants to even try to play 'incriminating' tapes, as their importance is most likely overstated by the landlord.
posted by lester at 1:19 PM on November 10, 2008

Worse than that, lester. The fool landlord could face serious penalties if it comes out that they have been taping witnesses & bystanders.

That could be fun to watch.
posted by IAmBroom at 2:29 PM on November 10, 2008

I tend to agree that this is not likely to be as useful as the landlord imagines, but that it definitely indicates she is someone you should be careful of from now on.

If you are on a tape, I don't think that they can use the evidence in a civil trial without calling you as a witness to attest to its authenticity. (Otherwise, who is to say the landlord didn't just stage a conversation with her brother-in-law?) So if you are not subpoenaed you don't need to attend. Aside from Family Court, what court prevents the public from attending?!

I would ask other tenants if they have experienced this behavior in the past and if it's a regular thing you guys might consider a class-action suit.
posted by dhartung at 3:23 PM on November 10, 2008