Before they were soldiers?
October 31, 2008 1:14 PM Subscribe
Moviefilter: I would like help compiling a list of movies set from the late 1930's - Dec. 7 1941, specifically that time between the rise of Nazi Germany and the start of U.S. involvement in WWII.
Not movies made then, nor movies about the war. Rather, ones in the plot highlights the interaction of Americans with Nazi Germans (or the Axis powers in general), at a time before when the American or the German would have been preemptively arrested or imprisoned.
Think 'Casablanca' or the first "Indian Jones" movies.
Certainly, qualifying movies would usually be in the action/adventure genre. These plot lines depend on an animosity between the nationals, but the flexibility of travel and interaction that this pre-war period allows.
Others I've thought of: 'The Rocketeer', 'The Shadow'. I suppose even "The Sound of Music" might qualify.
Wikipedia has lists of movies with plots set in the '30's or '40's, but I'm unfamiliar with many; perhaps Meta-fites can help me sort them out.
Think 'Casablanca' or the first "Indian Jones" movies.
Certainly, qualifying movies would usually be in the action/adventure genre. These plot lines depend on an animosity between the nationals, but the flexibility of travel and interaction that this pre-war period allows.
Others I've thought of: 'The Rocketeer', 'The Shadow'. I suppose even "The Sound of Music" might qualify.
Wikipedia has lists of movies with plots set in the '30's or '40's, but I'm unfamiliar with many; perhaps Meta-fites can help me sort them out.
'The Remains of the Day', which is on the Wikipedia list you linked to, is partly about relations between Britain, America and Nazi Germany in the pre-war period. Although the film is set in England, Christopher Reeve has a supporting part as an American politician. Wikipedia has a reasonable summary of the film.
posted by ShameSpiral at 2:09 PM on October 31, 2008
posted by ShameSpiral at 2:09 PM on October 31, 2008
On the offchance that your interest is more broad than you've stated, you cannot think of movies about/before the US entry into WW2 without thinking of That Hamilton Woman, about Nelson and Lady Hamilton but also a plea for US entry into the war.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 2:19 PM on October 31, 2008
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 2:19 PM on October 31, 2008
To Have and Have Not? I can't remember if it's set before or after US entry into the war though. TCM says that it was set in 1940, so there you go.
posted by turbodog at 2:54 PM on October 31, 2008 [2 favorites]
posted by turbodog at 2:54 PM on October 31, 2008 [2 favorites]
I haven't seen Ernst Lubitsch's To Be or Not To Be (1942), but it sounds like what you're looking for and is supposed to be absolutely fantastic.
posted by bubukaba at 2:58 PM on October 31, 2008
posted by bubukaba at 2:58 PM on October 31, 2008
Slightly off base but fascinating as period piece and as a piece of propaganda is Mission to Moscow. Davies travels through Germany on the way to Russia where things transform about as dramatically as Dorothy's journey from Kansas to Oz. (Not that I'm equating Kansas to Nazi Germany. I mean, some of my best friends are Kansans.)
posted by IndigoJones at 3:11 PM on October 31, 2008
posted by IndigoJones at 3:11 PM on October 31, 2008
Best answer: The 49th Parallel might work for you, it's about a group of Nazi's trying to make their way across Canada, who they are already at war with, and into the neutral United States where they would be safe. Only one American in it directly, but its intent was to help bring the US into the war and it is about the subject you are looking into. I would also suggest that looking at British films from 39 and 40 might be helpful since they were intended, at least in part, to entice the US into joining on their side via films. Like A Yank in the R.A.F., or Hitchcock's Foreign Correspondent. There were also some thinly disguised propaganda films here used other groups as stand-ins for the Nazis in order to criticize the growing nationalist movements around the world. Black Legion was one of those, it has a KKK-like group standing in for the German nationalists since Hollywood was under pressure not to criticize Germany too directly.
posted by mr.grum at 3:24 PM on October 31, 2008
posted by mr.grum at 3:24 PM on October 31, 2008
Best answer: Also, like To Be or Not To Be, The Great Dictator, might be of interest as one of the few films to deal with the subject of Hitler directly before we were in the war, but neither is about Americans, just intended for them to see.
posted by mr.grum at 3:26 PM on October 31, 2008
posted by mr.grum at 3:26 PM on October 31, 2008
Not sure I'd say Black Legion really has anything to do with Nazism. It was released in '37, which is just the slightest bit early for war, but spot on for the activities of the real life Black Legion
See also Confessions of a Nazi Spy
posted by IndigoJones at 4:09 PM on October 31, 2008
See also Confessions of a Nazi Spy
posted by IndigoJones at 4:09 PM on October 31, 2008
Re IndigoJones: Well, from what I had read it was the concern for Nazi style nationalism that was a major factor and influence on Warner Brothers, due to experience during the pre-war years which led them to make films denouncing the pernicious effect of this type of belief system on the world. Black Legion was one of the films mentioned in this regard and I agree with that designation since I think it pretty clearly shows the linkage between Nazism and home-brewed American Nationalism. But, that said, I don't disagree with your larger point in that it isn't specifically about Nazis but again, I've read it there was a lot of pressure on Hollywood not to be too specific in their criticism of the Germans.
posted by mr.grum at 4:39 PM on October 31, 2008
posted by mr.grum at 4:39 PM on October 31, 2008
Mr. Grum - Oh yeah, they got into a spot of trouble from the American Bund and even congress over my second link. And certainly BL does fall into a sort of America Land of Freedom for All category of movie. Subtlety is not its strong suit. That said, the point seems more inward directed than, well, my second link - Beware the crazies at home rather than the beware the political menace abroad.
Interestingly, the movie has touches of gangster flick. There's a scene where the Black Legion organizers talk about what chumps the Bogart etc characters are since the heart of the scam is selling the rubes the robes and torches and secret decoder rings. Businessmen, you see, not true believers. The hate thing was to them a simple, cynical marketing ploy.
Still, as to the makers' intent, proof is in what those who made it were thinking. Anyone has a direct reference from the time, I'd be interested in seeing it. Mr Grum could be more right than I, at that.
(Not the best Bogart movie, by the way. And also by the way, there are a slew of late thirties gangster movies that do show mobsters "doing their bit" for the war effort. Names escape me, but it could be worth investigating if you're into that sort of thing)
posted by IndigoJones at 5:49 PM on October 31, 2008
Interestingly, the movie has touches of gangster flick. There's a scene where the Black Legion organizers talk about what chumps the Bogart etc characters are since the heart of the scam is selling the rubes the robes and torches and secret decoder rings. Businessmen, you see, not true believers. The hate thing was to them a simple, cynical marketing ploy.
Still, as to the makers' intent, proof is in what those who made it were thinking. Anyone has a direct reference from the time, I'd be interested in seeing it. Mr Grum could be more right than I, at that.
(Not the best Bogart movie, by the way. And also by the way, there are a slew of late thirties gangster movies that do show mobsters "doing their bit" for the war effort. Names escape me, but it could be worth investigating if you're into that sort of thing)
posted by IndigoJones at 5:49 PM on October 31, 2008
Oh, and for the other axis of evil types, try Across the Pacific
posted by IndigoJones at 5:54 PM on October 31, 2008
posted by IndigoJones at 5:54 PM on October 31, 2008
I don't know offhand of any specific ones where Americans appear but there seem to be quite a few Japanese films (and Japanese anime, for that matter) made during or about the Japanese occupation of Manchuria that might fit.
Also, it's after your specified time period, but one of my favorites is The Third Man, which takes place in immediately-post-war Vienna divided as it was into French, American, British and Soviet zones. The protagonist is American.
posted by XMLicious at 6:14 PM on October 31, 2008
Also, it's after your specified time period, but one of my favorites is The Third Man, which takes place in immediately-post-war Vienna divided as it was into French, American, British and Soviet zones. The protagonist is American.
posted by XMLicious at 6:14 PM on October 31, 2008
And I haven't seen it but Tsirk ("Circus", 1936) is a Soviet musical comedy about an American circus performer who has a German manager.
posted by XMLicious at 6:27 PM on October 31, 2008
posted by XMLicious at 6:27 PM on October 31, 2008
Best answer: I went through some lists of movies I've seen and these are some of the titles that jumped out at me as being possibly useful to you. There may be a couple that take place after the US is in the war, and I'm sure there are a couple that have characters that aren't Americans but fit the same profile as what you seem to be looking for. There are a lot of other films dealing with civilians in wartime, but these are the most apt I think.
The Mortal Storm
Once Upon a Honeymoon
Above Suspicion
Invisible Agent
Man Hunt
The Hindenburg
Julia
Lassiter
The Long Voyage Home
All Through the Night
Journey into Fear
Dead Men Don't Wear Plaid
International Lady
Voyage of the Damned
Three Faces West
King of the Zombies
Fullmetal Alchemist the Movie: Conqueror of Shamballa
posted by mr.grum at 1:05 AM on November 1, 2008
The Mortal Storm
Once Upon a Honeymoon
Above Suspicion
Invisible Agent
Man Hunt
The Hindenburg
Julia
Lassiter
The Long Voyage Home
All Through the Night
Journey into Fear
Dead Men Don't Wear Plaid
International Lady
Voyage of the Damned
Three Faces West
King of the Zombies
Fullmetal Alchemist the Movie: Conqueror of Shamballa
posted by mr.grum at 1:05 AM on November 1, 2008
Response by poster: Thanks for some excellent suggestions. Next stop-Netflix!
posted by TDIpod at 8:31 AM on November 1, 2008
posted by TDIpod at 8:31 AM on November 1, 2008
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by BobbyVan at 1:25 PM on October 31, 2008