Comments on: What sports/activities have given up technology in order to be more fun/ require more skill?

Question: What sports/activities have given up technology in order to be more fun/ require more skill?

meowzilla — Tue, 21 Oct 2008 09:04:34 -0800

What sports/activities have given up technology in order to be more fun/ require more skill?

Technology makes all of our lives better, but maybe not in sports where buying new technology results in better performance and leads to an endless arms race where the cost of entry is raised to stratospheric heights. What sports/activities draw an arbitrary line where participants cannot use "x technology" in order to level the playing field so people can concentrate on playing the game, not buying high-tech junk?

The best example I can think of is stock class paintball. Where the general paintball population uses electronically-controlled nearly-fully automatic paintball guns capable of putting out 15+ shots per second and carry several hundreds of rounds in their hopper and on their person, in stock class paintball participants must use a pump-action paintball gun loaded with 10-15 rounds, and must angle the gun in order to feed each paintball, leading to a minuscule ~1 shot per second. The idea is that there is less emphasis on spraying areas with paint, and more emphasis on maneuver and accuracy. This also puts the player with the cheapest paintball gun that meets the qualifications nearly on the same level as the player with a fully custom expensive paintball gun.

The only other examples that come to mind are track cycling and barefoot running. Are there examples of this in golf? Bowling? Skeet shooting? Tennis?

By: jenkinsEar

jenkinsEar — Tue, 21 Oct 2008 09:11:46 -0800

Golf has limits on the "springiness" of the club face, which affects how much energy is transferred to the ball. I believe they also outlawed progressive dimpling on the golf balls themselves- certain modifications to the dimpling pattern (and depth) through computer modelling made the balls fly more aerodynamically.

Professional baseball refuses to allow the use of aluminum bats, although I believe the jury is still out on whether aluminum bats allow more home runs.

By: peachfuzz

peachfuzz — Tue, 21 Oct 2008 09:14:21 -0800

Bouldering is rock climbing stripped down to chalk and (usually) shoes. It requires a lot of strength, skill, and problem-solving to work your way up a route without a line, thinking through your moves individually and as a sequence.

By: box

box — Tue, 21 Oct 2008 09:16:02 -0800

In cycling, it's more broad than just track bikes--non-suspension mountain bikes ('hardtail' and 'rigid' are the retronyms), friction shifting and singlespeeds in general would also fit into this category.

In rock climbing, as I understand it, there's always been extra pride taken in routes that don't require a bunch of bolts and mechanical placements and whatnot.

By: callmejay

callmejay — Tue, 21 Oct 2008 09:27:33 -0800

NASCAR is probably the best example. There is also the aluminum bat ban in MLB.

By: -harlequin-

-harlequin- — Tue, 21 Oct 2008 09:28:21 -0800

Arguably this is true even in the stratospheric-cost-of-entry sports.
Motor-racing for example. Stock-class paintball would be a conceptual reference to stock racing, but even the top of the field - formula-one - the rules on what the car must be and how it must work and what may be used, are so restrictive on every last aspect of the car that any innovation is with regards to the rules, not technology. The cost and R&D remains massively high trying to optimize within the rules, but there is no motorsport where the rules are more like "race the fastest car you can get" ie make a car as fast and agile as modern technology can allow. I'm guessing it might be a safety thing, but I don't know much about it.

By: Cool Papa Bell

Cool Papa Bell — Tue, 21 Oct 2008 09:29:23 -0800

Virtually all motor sports center on placing limits on the performance of the vehicles, either by dividing them into different classes or actually putting technical barriers on the vehicles themselves, such as restrictor plates in NASCAR races.

Many people within the professional tennis community decry the usage of high-tech rackets that have changed the nature of the game. Some have called for placing restrictions on types of rackets and materials.

Professional football places limits on the usage of Stickum and other glues/adhesives that would allow you to have a better grip on the ball.

In truth, there are many, many examples of this. The list goes on and on.

By: muddgirl

muddgirl — Tue, 21 Oct 2008 09:34:54 -0800

Professional baseball has outlawed aluminum bats, as well as "technology" like corking. This is done both to prevent injury to players and to make home runs much harder to hit.

In bowling, the PBA places some restrictions on what you can do to a bowling ball to improve your game - manufacturers can do a lot to alter how a ball moves down the lane. They also have a set of approved oil patterns for PBA tournaments.

I'm pretty sure every single sport (that uses equipment provided by the teams/players) has restrictions on the technology used in that equipment.

By: meowzilla

meowzilla — Tue, 21 Oct 2008 09:36:43 -0800

To clarify, I'm more interested in completely separate, competitive branches of the same sport. Pretty much all sports have limits on their "mainstream" branch. Cycling has weight and frame type requirements. But is there also a separate, recognized branch of the sport that has significantly restrictive rules on equipment, so much that it changes the fundamental dynamic?

For example, golf with only one club?

NASCAR and bouldering are good examples.

By: valkyryn

valkyryn — Tue, 21 Oct 2008 09:37:49 -0800

It may not be exactly what you're looking for, but there is the general ban on chemical enhancements for athletes: steroids, blood doping, hormone treatments, etc. Everyone knows these make athletes perform better. But there is a general consensus that this takes something away from the virtue of the proceedings.

Any sport that uses a ball has done something similar. There are pretty fixed requirements for manufacturing balls used in professional sports. This is done not only to preserve the integrity of the sport, but also to prevent cheating and so that the players know how the ball is going to behave. No surprises for anyone, good or bad.

By: charlesv

charlesv — Tue, 21 Oct 2008 09:48:13 -0800

The Formula One class at the Reno Air Races limits aircraft to:
Continental O-200 engine (the same 100 hp engine used in a Cessna 150). Weights and sizes of every major engine part must be within stock limits. The cam profile and carburetion are strictly controlled. Race aircraft must have 66 square feet of wing area, weigh at least 500 pounds empty, and have a fixed landing gear and fixed pitch propeller.

By: turbodog

turbodog — Tue, 21 Oct 2008 09:55:34 -0800

Locally many (most?) road and cyclocross race events have a single speed/fixed gear class. Apparently there is even a single speed world championship.

With only one gear ratio you have to pick/guess just the right one for getting you up the hill and across the flats over the whole course. This puts even more of the chance to win on the rider rather than any benefits accrued from a ultra-light tricked out bike.

By: muddgirl

muddgirl — Tue, 21 Oct 2008 09:59:54 -0800

I'm more interested in completely separate, competitive branches of the same sport.

I see. In amateur bowling leagues, you can choose between normal leagues (which use the house lane pattern - very forgiving to beginners - and allow pretty much any registered ball) and "Sport Bowling" leagues. From the link:

The program, in its most basic form, is an opportunity for all bowlers to determine their true skills in such areas as accuracy, consistency, the ability to read lanes, and spare shooting skills to have success rather than rely on today's high-tech equipment or forgiving lane patterns to achieve high honor awards.

Sport bowlers must use a ball registered for "Sport Bowling", which has tougher restrictions than Standard (ie amateur) Bowling.

By: Cool Papa Bell

Cool Papa Bell — Tue, 21 Oct 2008 10:15:18 -0800

To clarify, I'm more interested in completely separate, competitive branches of the same sport. ... is there also a separate, recognized branch of the sport that has significantly restrictive rules on equipment, so much that it changes the fundamental dynamic?

Fencing? Foil, épée and sabre are three different types / weights of swords with three different target areas -- for example, where in foil, you may only score with hits to the torso area, in épée the entire body is a valid target.

Softball vs. baseball?

For example, besides the obvious softer ball, shorter basebaths and pitch delivery, a softball bat is a true cylinder, not a tapered cylinder like a baseball bat. A softball bat therefore cannot transfer power as effectively as a baseball bat.

And, of course, there is the pitching style differences between slo-pitch softball vs. fastpitch softball?

By: milkrate

milkrate — Tue, 21 Oct 2008 10:15:21 -0800

Sailing has examples of this - particularly in one-design racing.

By: Dr. Wu

Dr. Wu — Tue, 21 Oct 2008 10:19:59 -0800

I'm not sure if this meets your needs, but competitive lumberjacking has two general divisions or classes: one which uses power tools and one which uses hand tools. Broadly speaking, in the former, the objective is speed; in the latter, the objective is skill.

By: Barry B. Palindromer

Barry B. Palindromer — Tue, 21 Oct 2008 10:31:06 -0800

Powerlifting generally has separate federations for assistive gear users or raw lifters. Assistive gear like bench shirts and squat suits can significantly increase the amount of weight a lifter can put up. There are also federations which are tested for drugs and federations that are not.

By: SirStan

SirStan — Tue, 21 Oct 2008 10:38:44 -0800

F1 racing disallows launch control as of a few years ago. Actually F1 has quite a few technology limiting rules now (no turbos, no more than 4 wheels,etc).

By: fixedgear

fixedgear — Tue, 21 Oct 2008 10:41:22 -0800

For cycling, in general larger events have classes. So a multi-speed, fully suspnded MTB is not competing head-to-head with a rigid singlespeeder. If they do start at trhe same time, it's 'prize to first singlespeed across the line.' Cross races and MTB races have single speed classes, road cycling not really.

People do race vinatge bikes, including highwheelers. The Wheelman is an organization dedicated to pre-1910 or something bikes, and one of the requirements for membership is riding a century on such a bike.

Track cycling is not such a good example. It's always been one-speed, no-coast, no brakes. It might have gone from steel wheels to alloy wheels to carbon fiber wheels, but the basic premise is the same. Actually, in the case of track the limites are so rigid and kind of low tech that it inspired really expensive innovation, like wind tunnel tested helmets.

There is golf with one club, also speed golf which is populated by runners. How about hash house harriers who handicap with beer?

By: smackfu

smackfu — Tue, 21 Oct 2008 10:54:23 -0800

NASCAR in my opinion is on the borderline. Compared to F-1, they do keep out new innovations (like fuel injection!). But practically speaking, this doesn't seem to lower the cost of entry at all. Instead you have people spending as much money as they can to get right up to the limits of what's allowed, and very sophisticated cheating.

By: Atreides

Atreides — Tue, 21 Oct 2008 10:56:40 -0800

There are amateur baseball leagues which make a point of using wood bats, versus the more popular softball leagues with their aluminum bats. They're sort of a throwback to the old days when softball didn't exist and everyone simply played baseball. The person above comparing softball and baseball makes a good point. Softball is essentially a much easier version of baseball (at least on a recreational level). So these amateur baseball leagues seek to bring back the old days.

By: Cool Papa Bell

Cool Papa Bell — Tue, 21 Oct 2008 11:09:08 -0800

There are amateur baseball leagues which make a point of using wood bats

Indeed ... the most famous of which is likely the Cape Cod League.

By: ludwig_van

ludwig_van — Tue, 21 Oct 2008 11:18:19 -0800

I was going to say powerlifting as well.

By: COD

COD — Tue, 21 Oct 2008 11:24:27 -0800

Participants of classical fencing avoid most of the modern improvements in fencing such as electrical scoring, etc in an effort to keep fencing more like "historical sword fighting." Whether or not fencing was ever a simulation of sword fighting, or more of a a somewhat related sport, is a subject guaranteed to start a flame war on fencing discussion boards anytime it comes up.

By: googly

googly — Tue, 21 Oct 2008 11:34:36 -0800

"Real tennis" eschews modern racquet technology, though more for reasons of historical accuracy than emphasizing skill.

By: vodkaboots

vodkaboots — Tue, 21 Oct 2008 11:37:41 -0800

Natural bodybuilding

By: Netzapper

Netzapper — Tue, 21 Oct 2008 11:56:14 -0800

Rally has Production classes, as well as a class (whose letter I forget, 'N' maybe?) that limits the cars to two-wheel drive, naturally aspirated. As a novice driver, those are the classes to which you're limited.

The cost of entry is *radically* lower than for the Group B and Open classes. Like, $8000 for an old VW Golf and a rollcage, versus $100K for a race-prepared late model, AWD, turbo-charged car.

By: unSane

unSane — Tue, 21 Oct 2008 12:06:07 -0800

There are singlespeed categories in many mountain bike races.

There are people who run endurance MTB events like 24 Hours of Moab self-supported, dragging a trailer with them with all their food and drink etc.

Cyclocross has extremely restrictive rules about drop bars, brakes, tire width etc.

By: -harlequin-

-harlequin- — Tue, 21 Oct 2008 12:38:09 -0800

there is the general ban on chemical enhancements for athletes: steroids, blood doping, hormone treatments, etc. Everyone knows these make athletes perform better. But there is a general consensus that this takes something away from the virtue of the proceedings.

Slight derail, but my understanding is that virtue is not really the issue (at least, not today). Virtue is more a public perception, but under scrutiny there is no meaningful distinction in virtue between some of the dietary and supplement and augmentation practices that are allowed, and those that are not. However there is a very meaningful distinction based on safety for the athletes. If all practices are allowed, then no athlete could hope to compete without using the more extreme ones, and the cutting edge of performance enhancement is very dangerous. It would become a race to the bottom - who is willing to destroy themselves the worst, for a medal.

By: ROU_Xenophobe

ROU_Xenophobe — Tue, 21 Oct 2008 12:56:30 -0800

But practically speaking, this doesn't seem to lower the cost of entry at all.

Cost of NASCAR car: ~$150-200K.
Cost of F1 gearbox: ~$135K.

NASCAR is an expensive endeavor, but it's still a solid order of magnitude cheaper than fielding a competitive F1 car.

By: Cool Papa Bell

Cool Papa Bell — Tue, 21 Oct 2008 15:40:09 -0800

Yeah ... NASCAR cars are still pretty much, you know, cars.

F1 cars are essentially fighter jets without enough lift to take off.

By: dr. boludo

dr. boludo — Tue, 21 Oct 2008 16:30:51 -0800

There are apparently people out there who still hunt with atlatls. Legally.

By: turbodog

turbodog — Tue, 21 Oct 2008 16:36:06 -0800

fixedgear said: Cross races and MTB races have single speed classes, road cycling not really.

You, my friend, need to move to my neighborhood.