Complaining to Apple, is it even possible?

October 17, 2008 9:25 PM

My Macbook has fried three hard drives in the two years. This seems unreasonable. Help me complain effectively!

While I was willing to write the first two off as bad luck, three strikes and I'm ready to make a formal complaint.

Two questions: Where should I complain- my local Apple store or the website? (I bought online- from Apple, if that makes a difference.) Then, what's reasonable for me to expect from them? In my best case scenario, they trade me a new (comparable) machine for mine, but that may be ridiculous.

posted by aint broke to computers & internet (19 comments total)

I'd start with the Apple store. Make an appointment with the Genius Bar and see how it goes.
posted by zippy at 9:28 PM on October 17, 2008

Did you get AppleCare?
posted by nathan_teske at 9:29 PM on October 17, 2008

I did get AppleCare, so at least all these replacements have been free.
posted by aint broke at 9:35 PM on October 17, 2008

I'm not sure what complaining will do if you've had your drive replaced under AppleCare.

Hard disk drives are sadly more fragile than some of us expect them to be. They can be damaged by shock and by heat.

If you are regularly breaking hard drives, you may want to look at your desk to see if there is something about where you place the machine such that it might generate more heat than normal. Or maybe you travel with it regularly and have damaged the drive in transit.

You also may want to consider a SSD for your next laptop. They have no moving parts and thus do not fail in the same way that HDDs do.
posted by gen at 9:53 PM on October 17, 2008

I fried a white macbook's HD (2.16 c2duo) within about 6 months of buying it. I have a theory that part of the problem is the specs of the intel macbooks allow them to do more than you really should do within the physical confines of the laptops themselves.

Leading up to the HD crash, I had been playing Hi-Def .mkv videos, transcoding compressed video files, and other CPU intensive tasks that left the fan running a lot. Since replacing my HD, I'm a lot more careful about doing intensive tasks for long periods of time, and I also keep a sort of homemade cooling pad underneath (basically it's just elevated so there's an air pocket underneath). Has been running for almost a year since with no problems to speak of.

If my assumptions are true (my friend also fried his macbook HD shortly after I showed him how to transcode videos to iPod format), then it is sort of Apple's fault for designing a product that has too much processing power for its tiny over-stuffed laptop chassis, but I'm not sure what that means they owe you for your troubles. Start with the Apple Store. But even if they replace it the whole machine, I'd recommend babying the new one as a general precaution.
posted by p3t3 at 9:54 PM on October 17, 2008

I'm not sure what complaining will do if you've had your drive replaced under AppleCare.

Because three replacements is ridiculous? I think the odds are high that something underlying is wrong with that MacBook, probably a power or a heat issue. If it happens again, I would argue hard for a whole-unit replacement.

I've owned seven or eight different PowerBooks and MacBooks over fifteen odd years, and another dozen desktop Macs, and have not lost a single original hard drive, ever, despite heavy daily use (and a couple dropped-down-stairs episodes.) The only HD failures I've had, in fact, have been add-ons, both internal and external, and even one of those involved house-hit-by-lightning during a file copy... so I cut Quantum/Seagate a little slack on that one.
posted by rokusan at 10:03 PM on October 17, 2008

You really have nothing to lose by taking it in to an Apple Store and mentioning that you're on the third drive and, now that you're running down your AppleCare, don't have much confidence in the machine, etc. Be nice, don't be demanding.
posted by nathan_teske at 11:00 PM on October 17, 2008

Hard drives are actually pretty sensitive devices. Sure, there have been lots of developments in the way of shock prevention and the like but it still doesn't change the fact that a hard drive (and in a laptop at that!) is prone to failure.

However, that being said, 3 drives in 2 years! That figure scares me! I'm the drive I'm using in my laptop right now came used out of an old laptop, lived in an external enclosure for a while and then into my previous computer and now in this one.

I would definitely complain!

Its interesting to note that Google did a study a while back on HDDs which might make for some interesting reading concerning the life span and usage and heat. I remember reading somewhere that one brand in particular was prone to failure above all the others, but as none of the brand names were released publicly, we shall never know.
posted by tev at 11:50 PM on October 17, 2008

Try this.
posted by deezil at 6:17 AM on October 18, 2008

Yeah, I've also had loads of laptops and desktops over almost 2 decades, and I've never had an internal HD failure while the computer was still under active use (I even thought that I had my first laptop disk crash recently but it turned out to be a RAM issue), other than in one built-by-me desktop in which I knowingly allowed an internal temperature that was right on the line of the HD's upper heat tolerance range in order to reduce the noise level of the machine (this should sound familiar to anyone acquainted with Apple's design preoccupations). Yes, HDs are (sort of) sensitive, but three in two years is one more than a sheer fluke would account for.

Why not start by installing iStat Pro and peek at the temperatures in your machine for a while and see if there is anything ridiculous? If the machine is too hot for its drive (you can look up the tolerances of a drive on the manufacturer's site) you have a better case for asking them to fix what's really wrong before your Applecare runs out. Some Macbooks run hotter than specified due to bad manufacturing QA.
posted by Your Time Machine Sucks at 6:34 AM on October 18, 2008

My Macbook has fried three hard drives in the two years.
posted by aint broke

Ah, some days everything just lines up.


I'd nth the heat issues (and use a cooler pad until fully resolved).
posted by mandal at 6:45 AM on October 18, 2008

Consumerist.com advocates emailing Steve Jobs at [e-mail] when you feel like you aren't getting the help you need. I'm pretty sure Jobs himself rarely actually reads these, but they will get forwarded on to executive support, which will work very hard to get your issue resolved.
posted by mccarty.tim at 8:36 AM on October 18, 2008

Come to think of it, I have a theory. Perhaps Apple is using refurbished drives to replace failed hard drives. Refurbished drives tend to fail rather fast, as they're failed drives the drive manufacturer has repaired. They're often only given a warranty of a month rather than the typical drive warranty which can be a one to five years, which shows how confident the manufacturer is in them. When a person or company sends in a broken drive under warranty, they'll get a refurb in exchange. Many system administrators don't even bother with sending in drives for refurbs because they don't like the wait or the high chance of failure, so they instead just buy new drives. Some computer parts are good if they're refurbed, but hard drives are clearly a "no" in my experience.

I'm not sure you'd get an honest answer from the Apple genius guy, but I'd go ahead and ask if they replace the drives with refurbs. If you have a good backup, and your Apple Store has a good turnaround, I'd keep using the free drives until the AppleCare plan wears out.

The heating issue may also be a problem. I'd follow Time Machine's advice and run iStat and see how the temperature varies. To get AppleCare to help, specifically ask if they could replace the fans and/or check the application of thermal grease.
posted by mccarty.tim at 8:54 AM on October 18, 2008

Listen, just go in and see a genius, and tell them that this is the third time or whatever that it has had to be repaired. BE SUPER NICE. This happened to me, and they gave me a whole new computer, a major upgrade, only one month before my applecare was set to expire. I had had the computer replaced for three individual cases of logic-board failure. Basically if you reach a certain threshold of expensive repairs, it is AT THE GENIUS DISCRETION to either ship it off to get repaired AGAIN, or give you a replacement of like value, there and then in the store. I was even able to kick in a couple hundred extra and get a nicer model. So go the nice guy route, they're not out to screw you over.
posted by raygan at 1:06 PM on October 18, 2008

I don't think three HDs in 2 years is "ridiculous" for a Macbook. It sucks, but it's not ridiculous. My first Macbook came with a 160GB internal drive. It died in a month. I replaced it myself with the same exact drive, and it lasted another year before it too died (in an incident that was my fault and killed my LCD too). My second Macbook (on which I'm writing now) has made it 8 months so far on a 120GB drive. But it really only takes one bad bump to cause a failure, and this is a notebook problem, not a Macbook problem.

The only good hard drive is a backed up hard drive.
posted by fourcheesemac at 1:21 PM on October 18, 2008

I second going in and being nice to get a brand new one. I had a PowerBook that the hard drive, disc drive, and possibly logic board had all failed on. After doing multiple repairs they just handed over a brand new one. And then I bought AppleCare on that one so I was covered for another 3 years. If you come in and are good-natured about your frustration (you know.. ha-ha this is so silly, isn't it?) then they're way more likely to just replace the machine.
posted by dithmer at 1:36 PM on October 18, 2008

Seconding mccarty.tim. Youre probably getting some type of refurb with replacements.

It seems like you are demanding "warranty theater" which is demanding a psychologicaly fulfilling solution(replace entire device, coupon, apology, etc) as to a technical solution (replace drive).

Whatever happens, Id check the temperature. Your usage might be the issue here not some vast conspiracy with Apple.
posted by damn dirty ape at 4:08 PM on October 18, 2008

I feel I should also mention that the MacBook has a very easy to replace hard drive. If you have a Time Machine backup, you could just plug in a new drive, put in your Leopard disc, do a clean install, and then migrate from the backup and be back in business if it is a refurb issue. I'd keep taking refurb drives to save cash until the warranty runs out. When that's over, or if you really would prefer a new drive which should perform consistently (Assuming the problem is refurbs and not something like an electric problem or an overheating issue), I'd suggest a laptop drive like this one from NewEgg. It's bigger and faster than what you have, and it's at a decent price. I believe any 2.5" SATA drive should work, and you'd probably be smart to get a fairly fast one so that it takes less time to load files.
posted by mccarty.tim at 6:05 PM on October 18, 2008

I use a Griffin iCurve which raises the unit off the desk so air can better flow around it's nether regions. Perhaps something to look into?
posted by oxford blue at 6:21 PM on October 18, 2008