What's a reasonable move-out deadline?

October 16, 2008 10:36 AM

How long should I give him to move out?

I think it's over, but he's the one wanting to throw in the towel - how much accommodation should I be providing as far as his plans to move out?

Some essential facts:

Dating almost one year, he moved here (about an hour away from where he was) in August. Does not have a driver's license, and his bike was stolen in September. (yep, very bad luck there)

Has not found a job yet, though he's been looking. Not willing to take "any" job, ie. pizza places etc. Doesn't have any friends he can crash with in the area, and also doesn't think his father/step-mother back in his hometown will take him in. (They told him they thought he shouldn't move, so there's a lot of "I told you so" sentiment)

It's a shared lease, because the landlord required that, but I pay the rent. The apartment is a relatively small 1 bedroom.

I have people I can go stay with, if need be - a brother close by, and some friends.

I don't feel comfortable living as "just roommates" while he gets a job/figures out his plans, because I'm not the one who wants to break up.

So, what's a reasonable deadline, given his situation, and wanting to be as kind as possible to him, while still taking care of myself? I don't feel vengeful or vindictive, just sad.

posted by HopperFan to human relations (70 comments total)

30 days is probably good. If he's not willing to take "any" job, that's his problem, not yours.

As much as it sucks, you've got to be harsh, or he'll just mooch off of you.
posted by Verdandi at 10:42 AM on October 16, 2008 [3 favorites has favorites]

I would put the maximum anywhere between 2-4 weeks, depending on how generous you feel. That is long enough to give him time to find something else but short enough to put some pressure on him.

Don't forget to come up with some guidelines for those weeks, e.g. where each of you will be sleeping and rules on houseguests and other things like that. I know it's depressing as hell, but it's better to get that out in the open now than have it surprise you later.
posted by turaho at 10:44 AM on October 16, 2008

He can't have his cake and eat it. If he wants to split up then that means moving out, which means finding his own place and paying for it. I agree that 30 days sounds fair, but I recommend against moving out and leaving him with the place. I woudl be willing to bet that at the end of 30 days he will not have found a job, and you will then be faced with trying to get him out (and you in).
posted by Joh at 10:47 AM on October 16, 2008 [1 favorite has favorites]

I think you are going about this wrong. Since it is a shared lease, you do not get to unilaterally set a deadline, other than the end of the lease period. He has a right to have a roof over his head under the lease and I presume this is not affected by any relationship changes.

You ought to instead negotiate a mutually agreeable time for him to move out. Find out how to get something in writing that can be enforced. What city and state do you live in?

The other alternative is for you to move. It seems unfair that you are in this situation, but it's the only way for you to get 100 percent control of when the cohabitation ends.
posted by grouse at 10:47 AM on October 16, 2008 [1 favorite has favorites]

A 30 day grace period is a long time for someone who's been there for <90 days. I say the guy gets 1-2 weeks tops. He's living off you, breaking up with you, and not making any major moves toward establishing himself? You don't owe this person anything. 2 week is high generosity.
posted by namesarehard at 10:50 AM on October 16, 2008 [2 favorites has favorites]

Yeah - a month should do it. But DO NOT stay with friends or family or he'll never leave. If he has no prospects he really should go back with his family. think about it, even if he gets a job how long will it take him to get on his own 2 feet? I'll tell you, more than 30 days. He needs someone to support him and right now that is you.
posted by doorsfan at 10:51 AM on October 16, 2008

One week.
posted by adamrice at 10:54 AM on October 16, 2008 [1 favorite has favorites]

hey you're paying the rent, it's your apartment, kick your lousy ex out.

but since his name is on the lease, it's legally his apartment too although he's not paying anything for it.

this kind of mooching (for lack of a better term) is OK within the confines of a relationship (anything goes as long as both partners agree, right?) but if he's breaking up with you, he doesn't get to continue to live in what's rightfully YOUR home.

get some kind of written contract saying that he has to start contributing to the rent at a certain time OR pay you the rent back when he's financially able. If you don't think he's the sort who can be trusted to follow through on that, kick him out if you don't want to be on the losing end. Talk to your landlord and see if you can get the lease changed.

To be fair to yourself, your goals should be to
1. avoid an awkward/hurtful situation by NOT living with him when he's breaking up with you and
2. minimise material losses from 1.
posted by Xianny at 10:54 AM on October 16, 2008

I don't know where you are, but it is worth noting that it is probably not legal for you to do things like change the locks and not give him a new key or to dump his stuff out on the street. So if you want to set an ultimatum, know that there is very little backing it up.
posted by grouse at 11:00 AM on October 16, 2008

I would kick him out that day, especially if I had been paying rent. Or leave and let him pay the rest of the rent. If you are feeling kind, you could present him with both of those options.

30 days is a LONG TIME, ya'll, to be sharing an apartment with someone who just dumped you. And to be paying for them to live there.
posted by Acer_saccharum at 11:04 AM on October 16, 2008

Alternatively, if he won't leave choose option B and you can leave.
posted by Acer_saccharum at 11:04 AM on October 16, 2008

Look, even if he gets a good job right now, he has a two to three week window before he gets his first check and probably has more pressing debts than moving out. I think you should give him a few days because at this point he has no where else to go but with his parents. I'm sure they're enjoying some schaudenfraude but they'll most likely let him back in if he asks nicely. The longer you let him stay, the longer that conversation with his parents is going to take.
posted by damn dirty ape at 11:06 AM on October 16, 2008

Talk to your landlord as to what to do about the lease ASAP. It may be embarrassing but let him/her know whats going on and alert them that YOU pay all of the rent so that they don't feel as though you will default on the lease. At this time also get the ex off the lease so you can have more sway into how much time to give him in moving out.

As for the "I told you so" sentiment...it seems reasonable. He WAS wrong and is being childish in facing the consequences of his own actions. You are not his caretaker despite having cared for him.

I agree with the idea of 30 days (though with a shrinking economy and his unwavering desire to take a job that pays money, I doubt he will be able to get much done).

good luck.
posted by wocka wocka wocka at 11:07 AM on October 16, 2008

I agree with the 2-4 week suggestion, with a bias toward the 2-week side. I think grouse’s comments would be helpful if you were initiating the break-up or it was a mutual decision. That’s not the case, so you’re already being gracious just by thinking about a deadline rather than “Out. Now.”

He may not want to take “any” job, but it sounds like he could get one if he tried. His unemployment is more or less by choice, then, so that shouldn’t be a factor in your decision. It would be a different story if he’d been applying at and getting turned down by pizza places as well as more appealing jobs. His parents may not take him back, but surely he has friends back home with whom he could stay once he moves out of your place.

Absolutely be compassionate and gracious in your handling of this situation—for your own sake—but don’t let him guilt you into supporting him because he “can’t afford to move” or “has nowhere to stay” because those simply aren’t true.
posted by Meg_Murry at 11:08 AM on October 16, 2008

Thanks for the responses thus far, everyone - I thought about moving out myself, but I don't believe he could afford the apartment on his own, and I don't want to end up breaking a lease etc...
posted by HopperFan at 11:08 AM on October 16, 2008

I'm sincerely shocked by all the folks in here who are saying 30 days when the guy is paying no rent and contributing nothing to the living situation except the bad vibes of wanting to break up with you. You're living in a small 1 bedroom apartment and the relationship is over because of his decision. I think it's really bad form of him to expect to hang around until things fall into place for him. I think two weeks is fair, and might be more than I could handle, personally.
posted by onlyconnect at 11:11 AM on October 16, 2008 [1 favorite has favorites]

Him not paying any rent and now not having a relationship with you ('cuz that was the only thing that made him mooching off you okay) means he leaves now. If he thinks it is fair to keep living off and hurting you then you are definately better off without him.
posted by saucysault at 11:11 AM on October 16, 2008 [1 favorite has favorites]

He also hasn't stated explicitly that he wants to break up, just that he's not happy in the relationship, and needs to "take steps now" to move on. To me, that sounds pretty final, so I said "If you want to break up, just man up and say so" - which resulted in him flipping out and telling me that was extremely condescending, among other things.

Anyway, he said/she said doesn't matter at this point, I suppose.
posted by HopperFan at 11:12 AM on October 16, 2008

if he's any kind of reasonable person, he'll be gone in a couple of days. any more then 3 or so is too many.
posted by lester at 11:14 AM on October 16, 2008 [1 favorite has favorites]

needs to "take steps now" to move on

WTF does that even mean? He's dumping you, and still wants to stay in your one bedroom apartment rent-free? And people are saying to give him A MONTH to find a new place? If I was in your shoes I'd feel pretty fucking magnanimous about giving him until the end of the day. I know you want to be kind, but it sounds like this guy is not going to be any more prepared to live on his own in a year, much less a month. If he genuinely is progressing towards independence (getting ANY job, combing apartment-for-rent sites/papers, etc) then I might let him sleep on the couch while that was going on for a couple of weeks.
posted by Rock Steady at 11:15 AM on October 16, 2008 [1 favorite has favorites]

Too bad his name is on the lease, because it removes the way we dealt with this where I'm from, which is tonight he comes home and finds the locks changed and his stuff on the front step.

Under no circumstances should you get out of your place and live with friends, etc. (Okay, one circumstance: If there is a threat of violence.) It's your place, regardless of what's on the lease. You work, you pay the rent, he's a mooch. He needs to mooch elsewhere.

Give him a week, not one minute longer or he'll be in there like cancer. At the end of one week put his stuff out on the front step anyway. If he throws a sob story at you, give him $50 for a bus ticket back to where he came from and wish him luck. (His parents will take him back. They're mostly his parents and "I told you so" people love to have their target close to lord it over them. Which is exactly why he doesn't want to go.) I know you guys were together for a while and you didn't instigate this 'breakup', but you need to make the place hostile to him or he won't stop taking advantage of you. Tell him if he's still there you're not paying rent for November. Take all the food out of the kitchen and only eat out (without him) and don't bring home leftovers. Git rid of your TV, stereo, computer, and anything else that improves the quality of life in your place. (Give them to a friend for a bit). Where is he sleeping? Not with you right? If it's anything better than the floor, send that furniture over to a friend's house as well.

You're thinking "god, what a jerk!" but look at it from his point of view: He can live just fine and not need a job or anything. As long as you support him in any way you won't be able to get rid of this guy. He is taking advantage of you, you don't deserve it or need it or want it.

He's the one who wants out, but he can't have his cake and eat it to.

7 days, at most, starting right now.
posted by Ookseer at 11:20 AM on October 16, 2008 [2 favorites has favorites]

Call your brother. Have him come over. Load your ex's stuff in a car. Drive to his father's house. Say sayonara.
posted by fixedgear at 11:21 AM on October 16, 2008 [1 favorite has favorites]

Do not ignore the folks alerting you to the legal stickiness of this situation. He's on the lease. That's more than just a technicality.

Regardless of who is paying, you likely have no more right to the apartment than he does at this point. You're both liable for the rent. You're the only one paying right now, but rest assured that if you stopped, legal action would commence against both of you.

There are a lot of details that need to be considered here. Depending on your jurisdiction, 30 days may be the absolute earliest you can legally force him out.

First, make sure your landlord is amenable to removing his name from the lease.

Second, see if you can work out a mutually agreeable time for him to move. If he doesn't want set a date, you're going to have to see what your legal options are.

It wouldn't hurt you to talk to a lawyer about this, whether he's being agreeable or not.
posted by toomuchpete at 11:23 AM on October 16, 2008 [2 favorites has favorites]

Say, "OK, you have 2 weeks to 'take steps now to move on.' Otherwise you'll be moving on out of my place."

Since it is a shared lease, you do not get to unilaterally set a deadline, other than the end of the lease period. He has a right to have a roof over his head under the lease and I presume this is not affected by any relationship changes.

Did you read the part where he hasn't been paying any rent? In my mind that negates his "right to a roof over his head." Now, if he contributes to other household needs, like groceries and utilities, we can cut him a bit of slack, but I'm not sure this is the case.
posted by desjardins at 11:23 AM on October 16, 2008

When me and my last two live-in exes split up the basic deal was "we no longer live together" so the arrangement was that one or the other of us would find a place to stay with friends or whatever and the other would pack some things and work out a time to come back and get the rest of the stuff. In both cases, I was staying put. In one case, I went away for a few days while my ex lived in the place and made arrangements and then came back. I understand that there are complications with the lease and etc, but honestly I think a week is already graceful if you're paying the bills.

It is not your fault that he doesn't have friends, a driver's license, or a job. It may be your ongoing concern if hes not willing to take "any" job. That's a choice he's making and if it means that he's continuing to live rent free with you, I think it's reasonable of you to tell him to make other plans.

It's difficult to feel that you're kicking someone to the curb in this fashion but honestly his life is now his life and he needs to live the life he's created for himself. My suggestion would be "Okay if that's your decision I'll be talking to the landlord to remove you from the lease and I'll be going to my brother's for three days, please arrange to be staying someplace else by the time I get back and we can work out a way for you to get the rest of your stuff then."
posted by jessamyn at 11:26 AM on October 16, 2008

Landlord is not amenable to removing his name from the lease - stated that it can only be changed at the end of the lease period.

Utilities are included in the lease.

As for paying for groceries etc..., yes, he was definitely fair about doing that - he moved in with a bit over $1000, but it's gone now.
posted by HopperFan at 11:26 AM on October 16, 2008

I would contact your landlord first and let him know that you're the only one paying the rent and that you'd like a new lease that reflects that (tell him your roomie is moving out).
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 11:27 AM on October 16, 2008

Personally, I'd ignore the legal stuff as long as you're not doing anything explicitly illegal. Don't change the locks or anything, but be firm in setting your boundaries. Don't physically force him out of the apartment or throw out his stuff - use assertiveness to get him out. What are the chances he's going to call the cops (or the landlord) and complain? What are the chances said cops will do anything about it, unless you're in a podunk town where they have nothing better to do? Can he realistically afford a lawyer? My guess is that absolutely nothing will happen to you if you demand that he leave before 30 days.

IANAL.
posted by desjardins at 11:28 AM on October 16, 2008

This guy is the kind of guy who will mooch off you until you kick him out, at which point he will find another girl to mooch off. I have seen several of my friends go through this, and it sucks. Can't he find some cheap-ass room on Craigslist and get out? Unless you live in SF or NYC, he should be able to find a cheap share. Also, he needs to get over himself. I am a highly educated professional and when I was totally broke this summer I temped and did filing for a month because I had to pay rent. There's no shame in working at Wal-Mart or Starbucks, in fact, I think it's far more honorable to take that sort of job to support yourself than to mooch off your ex-girlfriend.
posted by alicetiara at 11:30 AM on October 16, 2008 [2 favorites has favorites]

I was going to offer some advice, but on preview, you say the landlord won't remove his name from the lease. You may have to break the lease. Ask for a new lease in your own name (full period) first, and if the landlord can't do that, talk to a lawyer.

If his name is on the lease, no ultimatum will get him out, and it doesn't matter what you tell him. When you have that leverage, you can boot him. (My data point: I took 9 days to find an apartment and move when I divorced my ex. I stayed in the joint apartment and he stayed with friends for those 9 days, but I was contributing to rent and was working steadily.)

Best of luck in resolving the situation.
posted by immlass at 11:32 AM on October 16, 2008

Well, nevermind then.
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 11:33 AM on October 16, 2008

It's a shared lease, because the landlord required that, but I pay the rent.

How is the lease set up? If you are each required to pay half the rent, stop paying his half and let him either pay up or break his half the lease and deal with the landlord. If the lease is such that it just lists both tenants and doesn't specifies who pays well then you are stuck if you don't want to break the lease.

Landlord is not amenable to removing his name from the lease

He might be more amenable if you explain that the other tenant will not be paying half, and if he is staying on the lease you might have to break it and leave, etc. Sure he could take you to court, but that's a hassle and he'd rather just keep you as a good tenant who pays on time vs. go to court, fix up apt, rent it out again, etc. If you fully explain the situation and he won't budge then you are just legally out of luck.

No matter what, stop paying his other expenses - don't let him eat your food. Kick him out of your bedroom at least, get a lock for that. Move your TV into the bedroom. Don't let him use your towels, etc. Basically freeloading off you a less attractive option.
posted by mikepop at 11:35 AM on October 16, 2008 [2 favorites has favorites]

Did you read the part where he hasn't been paying any rent? In my mind that negates his "right to a roof over his head."

Morally, that may be so. Unfortunately, legally, that doesn't change anything. She has no right to kick him out of an apartment for which he has a lease, even if he is not contributing financially. This is why lawyers caution people against cosigning contracts with people they don't know well. In nearly every jurisdiction, tenants are jointly and severally liable for rent, which means that each tenant on the lease can be held legally responsible for all of the rent. So she can't simply push him out, but she also can't stop paying his half of the rent, because the landlord has the right to come after her for the entire rent if s/he thinks (rightfully) that there's a better shot at recovering it from the responsible, employed half of the couple.

I'd ask your boyfriend when he thinks he can get out, and then ask him to go with you to your landlord to request to be taken off the lease. If the request comes from both of you, the landlord may consider it. If the boyfriend or the landlord balk, I'd ask the landlord about getting out of the lease yourself. Again, however, the landlord has the right to hold you to the contract that the two of you signed together. Your only option then is to go to court and go through a formal legal eviction proceeding against your boyfriend on the grounds of nonpayment of rent. Your landlord will have to comply if a judge orders your boyfriend out. But I'd avoid that option if you can. It'll take forever and be costly. Your best bet is to get your boyfriend and your landlord to agree on a move out date and a renegotiation of the lease.

IANAL, IANYL.
posted by decathecting at 11:40 AM on October 16, 2008

Dating almost one year, he moved here (about an hour away from where he was) in August.

It's unclear whether you were living in the apartment before he moved "here" or if he moved to your town and you found the place together. I think it makes a difference. If it was your place previously, then the people who are saying "it's your place, kick his ass out!!" have a (kind of heartless) point. But if you two found and moved into the place together, I think he should get a little more leeway. In that case, both of you have some claim to the residence regardless of who pays the rent.

This guy is the kind of guy who will mooch off you until you kick him out, at which point he will find another girl to mooch off.

You don't actually know shit about what kind of guy he is.
posted by and hosted from Uranus at 11:44 AM on October 16, 2008

It was my place originally - I looked for a two bedroom before he came here, but didn't think I could swing the rent on my own, in the event he didn't find a job.
posted by HopperFan at 11:48 AM on October 16, 2008

You've broken up and you're not married? How soon does he need to leave? Now. Now would be good.

He can move back to his old town if he needs to be near friends. He's an adult. His needs are not your responsibility.
posted by zippy at 11:57 AM on October 16, 2008

The only problem is the lease. You owe this guy nada. My reasoning:

Not willing to take "any" job, ie. pizza places etc.

doesn't think his father/step-mother back in his hometown will take him in. (They told him they thought he shouldn't move, so there's a lot of "I told you so" sentiment)

It sounds like he just has a huge bruised ego - you're not throwing this man out to the sharks. He could get a job if he wanted but none of them are "good enough." He doesn't want to go back to his parents because they were correct. If he had no living relatives or friends or was unable to find any job at all, circumstances would differ. But he's just being lazy and stubborn. Two weeks sounds more than fair.
posted by Solon and Thanks at 12:21 PM on October 16, 2008

Forgot to add:

You need to talk to the landlord and get her to take his name off the lease. Check out your local laws first, but if need be let her know that he isn't paying his half and you're not willing to pay for him - but you'll absolutely pay the whole thing if his name isn't removed.
posted by Solon and Thanks at 12:23 PM on October 16, 2008

is.
posted by Solon and Thanks at 12:24 PM on October 16, 2008

I've had to move suddenly before, and I took three random "get hired quick" jobs in two weeks to make sure I'd be able to what needed to be done. If I can do it, he can do it. Now is not the time to be picky. Now is the time for him to be an adult.

It sounds like he's made the decision to not work on whatever is causing him to be dissatisfied, so he needs to take the steps to move on. Since he can't afford the lease on the place you guys are in now, you get to keep it. He gets to find a place he can afford after going out and finding whatever quick jobs he can get to build up money fast.

Give him a month. Get it in writing. He honestly can't ask more than that - it's a more than decent amount of time. He should be working or job hunting in such a committed fashion that he's out for several hours a day (aka "treat job hunt like a job"), and when he is home, he should be looking for a place to stay and packing up his stuff.
posted by batmonkey at 12:25 PM on October 16, 2008 [1 favorite has favorites]

But if you two found and moved into the place together, I think he should get a little more leeway. In that case, both of you have some claim to the residence regardless of who pays the rent.

I sincerely don't understand this, or why it's "kind of heartless" to advise someone that it's okay not to want to live with and support for an extended period of time the guy who has told you that he is not happy with the relationship and effectively breaks up with you. I find prolonged contact with exes to be among the most painful and difficult things I've had to face in my lifetime, in one case sending me into a bad depression that, looking back, was probably the worst year of my life. The poster is sad, and she's allowed to protect herself from getting worse.

The landlord may be able to recover all of the rent from her as others have said (he doesn't care where the money comes from as long as he gets what he's owed), but she can also take him to small claims court to recover his half of the rent from him afterwards should it come to that. So the folks who are saying it's not right to require him to leave after a week or two are not understanding that the fairness of this comes from the fact that his agreement to leave gets from her in return the understood promise not to require him to pay the half of the rent that he properly owes on the apartment.

If the poster has ever had some sort of agreement with the guy that it is okay for her to pay all the rent until he gets a job, she should make it clear to him asap that now that the relationship has changed, this is changed too and she expects him to contribute his half of the rent as the lease requires (since they cosigned). This puts him on notice that whatever previous verbal agreement they had, they are back to equally sharing the rent as the lease indicates. She can tell him that if he moves out by X date she won't ask for his share of the rent for that month, which should hopefully be sufficient encouragement to him to leave by X.

Since he is not contributing, is out of money, has no job, and therefore can't expect to be contributing in the near future, it's not feasible to expect the poster to live with the guy who is breaking her heart for the length of time that would be necessary for him to get his life together and get a paycheck. I just don't think it's fair to expect her to live with this guy for a month. He has told her that he needs to "take steps now" to move on. Well, fine -- he should take them.
posted by onlyconnect at 12:31 PM on October 16, 2008 [1 favorite has favorites]

These are all providing me with some good things to consider, thanks.

Further points:

- I wouldn't damage his stuff, or toss it out on the curb. I recognize his legal right to be there due to the terms of the lease.

- I asked him to move in, which was probably a mistake on my part, because we were already having problems.

- As to what batmonkey said, he feels like the things that are causing him dissatisfaction lie in my behavior, not his, so no amount of additional talking will fix things.
posted by HopperFan at 12:34 PM on October 16, 2008

Of course it's not fair.

And it wouldn't be fair when she gets a big hit to her credit report and loses out on a fair bit of cash and (if she is really stupid and throws out his stuff / locks him out) gets arrested.

But it would still happen.
posted by Riemann at 12:35 PM on October 16, 2008

"If the poster has ever had some sort of agreement with the guy that it is okay for her to pay all the rent until he gets a job"

Yes, I agreed to that. I thought he would just go get any job, and even if he didn't like it, keep looking for one he did, but he isn't like that. I decided to just be patient, since I have a steady and reasonably well-paying job, so he could have a little more luxury in picking his situation.

I don't want to make this chat-filtery, sorry, just attempting to clarify some stuff that's been brought up.
posted by HopperFan at 12:38 PM on October 16, 2008

[comment removed - if you can't make your point without calling people fucking stupid, feel free to not make it.]
posted by jessamyn at 12:40 PM on October 16, 2008

If you had this oral agreement with him previously, I do think it's important for your own protection to tell him right away that since the relationship has changed you expect him to contribute his half of the rent as the lease indicates. Otherwise I'm not sure you could recover in small claims court as your previous oral agreement might still stand. Not that you actually want to go to small claims court, but I think your ability to demand that he leave by X date or you will seek his fair share of the rent from him through such an action is the main carrot/stick you have to encourage him to leave of his own accord.
posted by onlyconnect at 12:46 PM on October 16, 2008

I sincerely don't understand this, or why it's "kind of heartless" to advise someone that it's okay not to want to live with and support for an extended period of time the guy who has told you that he is not happy with the relationship and effectively breaks up with you.

I'm not saying that either view is necessarily right, but I think the notion is in line with the concept of alimony. Basically it's the idea that if a one partner of a relationship is providing economic support to the other member during a relationship, it may make sense to continue giving some level of support until they have a chance to establish their own economic foundation.

If the poster has ever had some sort of agreement with the guy that it is okay for her to pay all the rent until he gets a job, she should make it clear to him asap that now that the relationship has changed, this is changed too

I'm not a lawyer, but in general breaking up does not absolve someone from following through on a verbal contract. There are a lot of common sense laws around marriage and divorce, but when you're just living with someone, breaking up doesn't carry nearly as much weight in a legal sense. In general you can't unilaterally break contracts because you no longer like or want to deal with the person you made the contract with.
posted by burnmp3s at 12:49 PM on October 16, 2008

I am a lawyer (though I am not your lawyer, or the poster's lawyer, and am not a landlord/tenant lawyer), and I would argue that he has already broken any verbal agreement they had because he has (1) effectively broken up with her and so broken the explicit or implied terms that the rent-free offer was available only for the duration of the relaionship; and (2) has not found a job within a reasonable amount of time despite his agreement to do so. Frankly I'm not even sure her offer can be considered a viable verbal agreement that she can be required to uphold, since he arguably gave no "consideration" or value in return for living rent-free.

Moreover, an offer to let someone live with you rent free for a while until they get on their feet does not extend into perpetuity. If this were so, my cousin Frank would likely still be on my living room couch right now, eleven years after my initial offer. (Hi, Frankie!)
posted by onlyconnect at 1:07 PM on October 16, 2008

I sincerely don't understand this,

It's their place, not hers, if they moved in to a new place together. (But it turns out they didn't, so moot point.)

or why it's "kind of heartless" to advise someone that it's okay not to want to live with and support for an extended period of time the guy who has told you that he is not happy with the relationship and effectively breaks up with you.

Heartlessness may or may not be what's needed in this situation, but how else would describe throwing somebody that you have an intimate relationship with out on the street? Or somebody you don't have an intimate relationship with for that matter. If the OP gets laid off and can't pay the rent for a couple of months, would the landlord be "heartful" when he evicts her? No, the landlord would be "right" but, in a way, cruel nonetheless. (Now imagine if the landlord had been fucking her.)

Also, I'm not sure I'm buying that 'not happy in the relationship, and needs to "take steps now" to move on.' is "effectively" breaking up. Sounds more like "we need to talk".
posted by and hosted from Uranus at 1:10 PM on October 16, 2008

I agree with all the posters suggesting to make it uncomfortable for him to be there. I'd bring someone home ASAP even if it was just for pretend superloud sex noises. But I'm wicked like that.

Check out Nolo and other living together legal resources for more specific examples of what other people have done. You might need to consult a lawyer or your city or state housing authority to find out what your rights are in having him kicked out (especially if you can prove you've been paying the rent all by yourself, regardless of whether he's on the lease).

You don't mention whether you discussed a timeline with him already, or even just asked him, "So when are you leaving?" He might be more willing to stick to a timeline if he has input in setting that timeline. But you definitely shouldn't put up with that "I'm too good for those jobs" crap. Two weeks is more than I'd be able to stand.

In the end, you might have to suck it up and break the lease. This is unfortunate, but it might be your best option--pay a fee (call it a stupid tax if you need to) and leave, and he can figure out how to handle the apartment and landlord on his own.
posted by purplecurlygirl at 1:14 PM on October 16, 2008

Find out what the local eviction notice timeline is. In some states, it's a month, in some it's 90 days.

Whatever it is in your state, tell him he's being evicted. Draw up a funny little contract if you want. Any of his problems are no longer YOUR problem since you're no longer a couple and thus no longer responsible for each other's well being. Any excuses aren't really your concern. He just needs to get out. He wants to move on - well then, he should do exactly that and MOVE.
posted by grapefruitmoon at 1:16 PM on October 16, 2008

ahfUranus, thanks for the comment - I asked if he was willing to keep talking, and work on this further, but he said he wasn't, that talking hadn't worked in the past, and nothing had changed. There's a lot I'm not saying here, obviously - things I'm at fault for, and things he's at fault for - but the issue is that I simply don't want to "live as roommates" (his words) while he works out the when/where/how of what he's going to do next.

I'm not considering tossing him on the street, but there has to be some kind of deadline, right? Otherwise, it's living with an ex until the lease is up next August.
posted by HopperFan at 1:18 PM on October 16, 2008

On reading the actual comments:

If it's YOUR place, tell your landlord the situation. Say that you NEED to get his name off the lease. And really, legal issues or not, if he moved into YOUR place, then HE needs to move out *stat* if he's decided it's "over."

In the end, you might have to suck it up and break the lease. This is unfortunate, but it might be your best option--pay a fee (call it a stupid tax if you need to) and leave, and he can figure out how to handle the apartment and landlord on his own.

I ended up having to do this after a relationship ended. The stupid tax was worth moving on with my life and making a positive change.
posted by grapefruitmoon at 1:19 PM on October 16, 2008 [1 favorite has favorites]

but there has to be some kind of deadline, right?

Absolutely.
posted by and hosted from Uranus at 1:20 PM on October 16, 2008

The landlord has nothing to gain by removing a name from the lease, and is unlikely to do so. Give the ex- a week. If he chooses to try to stay, go to a friends' and tell him he's on his own for the rent. Seriously, non-rent-paying boyfriends have few rights. He should go stay with his folks, suck up the I told you sos and get a job, any job.

You are both legally liable for the rent, but I'd use it as a threat. Be tough, be willing to escort him to the street. It sounds like is really using you. You need him out so you can move on.
posted by theora55 at 1:41 PM on October 16, 2008

how else would describe throwing somebody that you have an intimate relationship with out on the street?

That's not fair because all of her comments in this thread have indicated that she is not talking about throwing either him or his stuff out on the street. (And for that matter neither have my comments.) We're talking about setting up a timetable.

And let's turn this around. How heartless is it of him to tell her that the relationship is not working, and he's not willing to work on it anymore, but that he wants her to continue to support him and his lifestyle as his "roomate" until he gets his act together (when history shows that he hasn't been able to accomplish that over the last three months)? They're not married; he's not entitled to her earnings. He has given all the signals that he is breaking up with her except that he has not said the actual words -- probably because he realizes that doing so means leaving. If he had any feelings for her at all, wouldn't he want to get out of this apartment so that he wouldn't be causing her any more pain? Isn't it kind of heartless to do everything except say the words "we're breaking up" and yet expect to go on living together amicably on your ex-beloved's dime?
posted by onlyconnect at 1:48 PM on October 16, 2008

Legally, no, there is not "some kind of deadline" unless he agrees to move out voluntarily and is taken off the lease or you have him evicted. You are parties to a contract together, and that contract gives him the right to live in the apartment with you until August. That contract also gives your landlord the right to collect the full amount of the rent from either one of you. You need to get him to agree to move out and get a new lease (and you should get the agreement from him in writing with a specific date attached), get him to agree to move out and get your landlord to agree to let you break your lease, or if he won't agree to move out, start eviction proceedings.
posted by decathecting at 1:49 PM on October 16, 2008

Sounds like the consensus is no more than a month and no less than 1 week. 2 weeks sounds about right, if he complains you could consider 3, but that might inspire further malingering if he's of that type. If you'd rather not negotiate say 3 weeks and leave it at that.

It might help to not say it's because you're breaking up, just tell him you think he should find a new place, so that if you guys blithely get back together he still has to GTFO.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 1:55 PM on October 16, 2008

That's not fair because all of her comments in this thread have indicated that she is not talking about throwing either him or his stuff out on the street. (And for that matter neither have my comments.) We're talking about setting up a timetable.

My original comment said 'the people who are saying "it's your place, kick his ass out!!" have a (kind of heartless) point'. I was referring to those who meant today or tomorrow, maybe even next week. If you do not wish to include yourself in that group, great, but then why are you nitpicking me?
posted by and hosted from Uranus at 1:59 PM on October 16, 2008

The landlord has nothing to gain by removing a name from the lease, and is unlikely to do so. Give the ex- a week. If he chooses to try to stay, go to a friends' and tell him he's on his own for the rent. Seriously, non-rent-paying boyfriends have few rights. He should go stay with his folks, suck up the I told you sos and get a job, any job.

The landlord has everything to lose if they don't remove the boyfriend's name from the lease, since, otherwise, the party that's actually paying the rent might have to leave, otherwise.
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 2:13 PM on October 16, 2008

Another thought--would you be able to talk your brother or other relatives into putting him up for, say, a week, while he figures out what he needs to do? He's much less likely to impose on others than he is on you (I hope!) and it's likely that they'll have far less tolerance for foot dragging on his part.
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 2:18 PM on October 16, 2008

Even if you were willing to "live as roommates," you're not, since then he'd be paying rent.

Tell him a coworker wants to move in with you, and you're either going to void your lease (possible in many states), in which case he'll need to be prepared to shoulder it or move out. Or whe'll need to move out to make room.

But I'd start with trying to find out what his expectations for staying are. Does he think 30 days is reasonable? A weekend? Where's he coming from in this. Hell, he might be thinking he'll bail tomorrow. But if he is expecting to keep living rent free you need to know that.

A lawyer would be nice. A library will probably work. Find out what's required to break your lease, let your landlord know you're willing to do it. Let the ex-bf know you're willing to do it. Then be willing to do it.

These circumstances are untenable. And I think people are pointing out that 30 days seems reasonable to short-circuit the fact that anything else might involve a lot of drama.

And in the future, should you decide to do this again, I'd make sure you had this stuff down on paper first.
posted by cjorgensen at 2:41 PM on October 16, 2008

ahfUranus, I didn't understand your "heartless" comment to be restricted to the folks who were advising giving him one day to one week to get out because your comment did not reflect this timetable. I also read "kick him out" broadly and so didn't understand if you were limiting your "heartless" comment to folks who were advising her to change the locks etc. vs. folks who were advising her to tell him to leave within a certain timetable. My apologies if you meant only the former. I certainly did not intend to "nitpick" you. I was just struck by your use of the word "heartless" in the face of this man's apparent expectation to all but dump the poster yet continue the status quo indefinitely. It sounds like you agree a timetable is in order, so I think we're basically on the same page, actually.
posted by onlyconnect at 2:44 PM on October 16, 2008

The reason I suggested that you should negotiate with him rather than unilaterally set a deadline is so that you can get an agreement that you can enforce.

He should recognize that it is unreasonable for him to want to stay for more than a month (or you can try two weeks instead if you think he'll go for it). You should be able to get him to sign an enforceable agreement that he will be out by this time. Then you will actually have some leverage, which you don't have now.
posted by grouse at 3:46 PM on October 16, 2008

HopperFan wrote: He also hasn't stated explicitly that he wants to break up, just that he's not happy in the relationship, and needs to "take steps now" to move on.

This is non-responsive to the actual question, so will likely be deleted, but talk about prematurely flipping out. I don't know the particulars, obviously, but when someone says they're not happy in a relationship, it's usually an opportunity for communication, not an ultimatum.

If you take it as an ultimatum and get all up in his shit about how he needs to man up and just do it if he wants to break up, that's not constructively addressing the issues he probably wanted to discuss.

Just for future reference...
posted by wierdo at 4:49 PM on October 16, 2008

I happen to think a week is a fair deadline. Two weeks would be quite generous. The one time this happened to me, I almost moved out myself, but when it became obvious that wouldn't work (for either of us), I arranged to stay somewhere else for a week and gave him just over a week to move out. He had one weekend to plan, one week to set up arrangements, and one weekend to move out.

(Also, I'm thinking things may not be as complicated as all this worst-case-scenario discussion makes them sound. I've gotten people to leave my house without proving they meet the legal definition of trespassing, and likewise, things here may go fairly smoothly. If he agrees you all shouldn't live together, and he can't pay the rent on his own, what other option is there?)
posted by salvia at 10:36 PM on October 16, 2008

Landlord is not amenable to removing his name from the lease - stated that it can only be changed at the end of the lease period.
That's your landlord talking, which may or may not be a reflection of the actual law. I suggest you try Google with the phrase "tenants rights <insert your state name here>" or "Housing Counseling Agencies <insert your state name here>"
posted by plinth at 5:32 AM on October 17, 2008

wierdo, this "just that he's not happy in the relationship," is not the "I'm dumping you" part, this "and needs to "take steps now" to move on" is.
posted by Rock Steady at 7:39 AM on October 17, 2008

Hopperfan,
Take control. It's tough love time for the ex. (IMHO two weeks strikes a balance between "tough" and "love". YMMV.) Dictate terms, do not bargain with the ex *or* the landlord. State that you will break the lease in two weeks if your demands are not met. And be prepared to do it: Start apartment hunting for yourself right now, because my money's on the ex (and the landlord) having to learn the hard way.
Good luck.
posted by whuppy at 10:22 AM on October 17, 2008

+1000 for whuppy's suggestion and the others who are focusing on the real sticking point:

His name is on the lease, he won't move out, and the landlord won't remove his name.

Therefore your only weapon is breaking that lease. Consult with local tenant's groups for suggestions - they might be able to advise you, but unfortunately, unless you can get him to agree to leave - you need to find somewhere else to live. Take your name off the lease and go, and count it as a hard lesson. I'm sorry.
posted by canine epigram at 7:56 PM on October 17, 2008