Less room than you might think in an empty nest
October 14, 2008 12:43 PM Subscribe
My 19-yr-old daughter, who's been living on a theatrical tour for more than a year, will be home for a month in November.
Last time she was home for an extended period, she drove us crazy-- messy, disengaged, expecting to be catered to (at least emotionally), and frankly kind of mean to her mother (that would be me). It's too long to be considered a houseguest, and too short to really integrate her back into systems. She can be somewhat oblivious to her effect on those around her, but is generally charming and great to be around. I just don't want to have to either pick up her shit, or remind her to do so.
So, do I need to lower my expectations? How do I do that? Has anyone had to drop back in on the folks-- what drove you crazy about that, and what drove them crazy about you? Empty nest was easy to get used to; help us make the periodic returns as painless.
Last time she was home for an extended period, she drove us crazy-- messy, disengaged, expecting to be catered to (at least emotionally), and frankly kind of mean to her mother (that would be me). It's too long to be considered a houseguest, and too short to really integrate her back into systems. She can be somewhat oblivious to her effect on those around her, but is generally charming and great to be around. I just don't want to have to either pick up her shit, or remind her to do so.
So, do I need to lower my expectations? How do I do that? Has anyone had to drop back in on the folks-- what drove you crazy about that, and what drove them crazy about you? Empty nest was easy to get used to; help us make the periodic returns as painless.
Response by poster: Judgmental is okay, as far as it goes. We honestly don't want to assign blame for the bad situation last time. We just don't want to repeat it.
posted by nax at 1:03 PM on October 14, 2008
posted by nax at 1:03 PM on October 14, 2008
She's an adult, who's been living "on her own" for about a year now. Expect a lot of frustration if you try to fit her back into the teen-child mold. Let her know you know she's an adult, but also let her know that as family, not a house-guest, she is expected to be responsible. Set guidelines and boundaries up front, in clear terms, without judgments expressed or implied. In terms of expectations in regards to messiness, I'd say let her deal with her own space, but set reasonable requirements for shared spaces, like the kitchen. Try to present your requirements as you would to a potential tenant, not as to a disobedient child.
good luck.
posted by nomisxid at 1:03 PM on October 14, 2008
good luck.
posted by nomisxid at 1:03 PM on October 14, 2008
Well, since it's obvious that you and your daughter have bumped heads quite a bit, I think it's fine that you treat your daughters and your living arrangements as if she WAS a houseguest. 1 month does not mean that it is her place to act the way she wants. Unless she's paying rent, she is your guest for as long as she lives there and should follow your rules. If she doesn't like that, she can find her own place to live for a month (as it's obvious she can work and is able to earn money). She's an adult - she can start acting like one.
Inform her ahead of time the rules and that you aren't going to tolerate her behavior. If she starts to break the rules, kick her out.
posted by Stynxno at 1:04 PM on October 14, 2008
Inform her ahead of time the rules and that you aren't going to tolerate her behavior. If she starts to break the rules, kick her out.
posted by Stynxno at 1:04 PM on October 14, 2008
Seconding all the comments about communication. Sit down with her and explain, "things have changed a little since you moved out. Here's what's up" and explain to her the requests you have for her. For example, 'we'll buy the food, but we really don't want it anywhere but the kitchen. If you make a mess in a common space, please clean it up." - whatever your requests are. Try to phrase it in the positive and let her know how the things you're asking her not to do affect you and why you're asking her not to do it. Also try to pick and choose your battles. If her room is messy, close the door and forget about it, but remind her to leave common areas the way she found them.
Treat her like an adult and request that she respect the living arrangements. Try not to use the word "rules."
Good luck!
posted by NoraCharles at 1:58 PM on October 14, 2008
Treat her like an adult and request that she respect the living arrangements. Try not to use the word "rules."
Good luck!
posted by NoraCharles at 1:58 PM on October 14, 2008
Crack down on her with "house rules" and expect some unhappiness on her part. She's 19 and figuring out her place in the world, becoming an adult. Coming straight at her with "I don't want to pick up your shit and you had better be engaging with me" (even if you say it as nicely as possible) isn't going to help the two of you communicate better, which is what it sounds like would help you guys - you sound more upset with how she treats you than where she drops her clothes or dishes or whatever.
Try to remember that she is your daughter and this is just for one month. Try bonding with her a little - engage her in something she likes, etc. Enjoy the part where she's charming and great to be around.
I remember being a 19 year old girl, and yes, I was a terror. I grew up to be a very nice, polite, and kind adult, but there were some clashes along the way. It's hard to start being an adult and relating to parents, especially when you're staying with them after being gone for awhile. I disengaged from my mom when I felt like she was nagging me or being all intrusive, demanding I engage. And sometimes I still expect my parents to cater to me emotionally - sometimes you need a safe place and you need all the love and support your parents can give you, even if it comes off whiny and demanding.
I'm not saying let her run all over you, but just try to put it in perspective, and maybe this helps a little with her side of it.
posted by KAS at 2:52 PM on October 14, 2008
Try to remember that she is your daughter and this is just for one month. Try bonding with her a little - engage her in something she likes, etc. Enjoy the part where she's charming and great to be around.
I remember being a 19 year old girl, and yes, I was a terror. I grew up to be a very nice, polite, and kind adult, but there were some clashes along the way. It's hard to start being an adult and relating to parents, especially when you're staying with them after being gone for awhile. I disengaged from my mom when I felt like she was nagging me or being all intrusive, demanding I engage. And sometimes I still expect my parents to cater to me emotionally - sometimes you need a safe place and you need all the love and support your parents can give you, even if it comes off whiny and demanding.
I'm not saying let her run all over you, but just try to put it in perspective, and maybe this helps a little with her side of it.
posted by KAS at 2:52 PM on October 14, 2008
Speaking from experience: living on tour is not the same as living on your own. On tour you have a permanent support structure around you, for both physical and emotional needs. Casts on tour get extremely close, and losing that, even for a short while, can be devastating for some people.
Making a big inference: Perhaps she doesn't realize how dependent (co-dependent) she has become on her cast mates, and is carrying those expectations home with her -- or perhaps she drives her cast mates just as crazy as she drives you :/
posted by crickets at 2:54 PM on October 14, 2008
Making a big inference: Perhaps she doesn't realize how dependent (co-dependent) she has become on her cast mates, and is carrying those expectations home with her -- or perhaps she drives her cast mates just as crazy as she drives you :/
posted by crickets at 2:54 PM on October 14, 2008
becoming an adult
19 is not becoming an adult. 19 is an adult. An adult who can fight in wars, vote, fuck, drive, and generally do pretty much anything they want. Given that this 19 year old has been "...living on a theatrical tour for more than a year", they've been living independently as an adult for some time. The mindset that a 19 year old is a child subject to the same kind of rules and regulations as a 15 year old is pretty such certain to create conflict.
Has anyone had to drop back in on the folks-- what drove you crazy about that, and what drove them crazy about you? Empty nest was easy to get used to; help us make the periodic returns as painless.
Treat her as an adult houseguest. If you had an old friend from out of town drop by, what would you expect from them? Explain that to your daughter. At 19 had been living away from home for a year and I would have been pretty annoyed if I'd been visiting home and been expected to meet curfews or silly stuff like that; conversely, I expected to take care of my own laundry, for example.
posted by rodgerd at 3:47 PM on October 14, 2008 [1 favorite]
19 is not becoming an adult. 19 is an adult. An adult who can fight in wars, vote, fuck, drive, and generally do pretty much anything they want. Given that this 19 year old has been "...living on a theatrical tour for more than a year", they've been living independently as an adult for some time. The mindset that a 19 year old is a child subject to the same kind of rules and regulations as a 15 year old is pretty such certain to create conflict.
Has anyone had to drop back in on the folks-- what drove you crazy about that, and what drove them crazy about you? Empty nest was easy to get used to; help us make the periodic returns as painless.
Treat her as an adult houseguest. If you had an old friend from out of town drop by, what would you expect from them? Explain that to your daughter. At 19 had been living away from home for a year and I would have been pretty annoyed if I'd been visiting home and been expected to meet curfews or silly stuff like that; conversely, I expected to take care of my own laundry, for example.
posted by rodgerd at 3:47 PM on October 14, 2008 [1 favorite]
As far as cleanliness, treat her sort of like a roommate or tennant. She's an adult, not a teen, so laying down "rules" is not going to fly. Just tell her that as she's a tennant (probably for free, I'm guessing) in your house, she needs to respect your space and keep up the cleanliness standards that you yourself keep. She should be able to keep her own room as messy as she damn well pleases, as long as she cleans it up before leaving, and doesn't leave any damage.
posted by gauchodaspampas at 3:50 PM on October 14, 2008
posted by gauchodaspampas at 3:50 PM on October 14, 2008
After college my parents agreed to let me move home until I found a job and saved enough money to get an apartment. I graduated in December and moved home. After four and a half years away from home, I was used to staying out as late as I wanted, being messy, and playing my stereo at maximum volume. What I didn't realize was that my parents were not used to me staying out until the wee hours of the morning, looking at my messy room, or having their quiet household turned into a concert venue. I really just didn't think about things from their perspective. I think if you can communicate to your daughter that she is in YOUR home, and that you would never go into her home and just do as you wished without her consideration, she will understand.
By the way, after finding a job in early February (after living with my parents for about four weeks), I decided my sanity was more important to me than a padded bank account. My parents, evidently, felt the same about their sanity and bank accounts and gave me enough money to pay my apartment deposit and my first month of rent!
posted by junipero at 5:23 PM on October 14, 2008
By the way, after finding a job in early February (after living with my parents for about four weeks), I decided my sanity was more important to me than a padded bank account. My parents, evidently, felt the same about their sanity and bank accounts and gave me enough money to pay my apartment deposit and my first month of rent!
posted by junipero at 5:23 PM on October 14, 2008
Setting and clearly communicating the house rules is a good start. It is your home; you are allowed to establish the rules.
It will also help if establish a regular schedule for check-in conversations. It's not a big deal, just say. "Hey, you're back with us and we want to have everyone enjoy your visit. Let's agree to talk for a few minutes each Friday to discuss how things are going." Instead of waiting for things to reach a detonation point, you'll have a time set aside to discuss how her visit is going. Also if you irritate her or she annoys you, then you don't have to feel as though you're powerless about it. You'll know you can address it in a few days.
posted by 26.2 at 12:33 AM on October 15, 2008
It will also help if establish a regular schedule for check-in conversations. It's not a big deal, just say. "Hey, you're back with us and we want to have everyone enjoy your visit. Let's agree to talk for a few minutes each Friday to discuss how things are going." Instead of waiting for things to reach a detonation point, you'll have a time set aside to discuss how her visit is going. Also if you irritate her or she annoys you, then you don't have to feel as though you're powerless about it. You'll know you can address it in a few days.
posted by 26.2 at 12:33 AM on October 15, 2008
Response by poster: Too many best answers to mark. Thanks everyone! Anyone else who wants to chime in, keep 'em coming. A couple more details-- my daughter and I are very close, (probably part of the problem), the only cleanliness we demand in her room is no food and a clear path from the bed to the door in case of fire. I absolutely consider my daughter to be an adult, but from reading these, one of the things I've realized is that maybe she doesn't really know this, and is pre-acting (is that a word?) defensively. So thanks for that insight.
<3
posted by nax at 7:03 AM on October 15, 2008
<3
posted by nax at 7:03 AM on October 15, 2008
Tour people have very different lives, and I think this might be more the issue than the fact that she's 19 and moving back in with mom and dad for a month. My ex used to sleep for the entire first week back from the road, which pissed me off to no extent. It was worse when they just came off doing one-nighters rather than one-week sitdowns, but there was always a big adjustment period. He left messes everywhere because he suddenly had all this space and he expected to be catered to, literally, because he was so used to having room service and maid service in hotels on the road.
I agree with the above posters about setting explicit expectations and spelling them out so there's no misunderstanding, but I'd focus on treating her like an adult instead of like your child again--somehow figuring out how to set boundaries without making them seem like "rules" that she might instinctively rebel against. Pick your fights and decide which things you can tolerate for four weeks (her messy room? Shut the door.) and which you can't (she's leaving the common areas a wreck? That needs a different solution) and just remind yourself it's for a limited time.
posted by purplecurlygirl at 7:07 AM on October 15, 2008
I agree with the above posters about setting explicit expectations and spelling them out so there's no misunderstanding, but I'd focus on treating her like an adult instead of like your child again--somehow figuring out how to set boundaries without making them seem like "rules" that she might instinctively rebel against. Pick your fights and decide which things you can tolerate for four weeks (her messy room? Shut the door.) and which you can't (she's leaving the common areas a wreck? That needs a different solution) and just remind yourself it's for a limited time.
posted by purplecurlygirl at 7:07 AM on October 15, 2008
This happened with me as the daughter over some summers and breaks.
My mom would talk before I came back about what stuff she wanted me to do. Generally, it was that I would clean up after myself, if not doing chores for everyone. I put things back where I found them, did my own laundry, and rinsed my dish before it went in the washer. You may want to do the same with her---that way it's not OMG you're treating me like a KID, but hey---you're an adult, and we need to you to pick up after yourself like you suuuurely do when you're by yourself.
As for coming and going, my mom told me I was an adult and could come and go as I pleased---just to let her know if I would not be back over night, that sort of thing. I didn't have to say where I was, just how long I would be gone.
posted by lacedback at 7:33 PM on October 15, 2008
My mom would talk before I came back about what stuff she wanted me to do. Generally, it was that I would clean up after myself, if not doing chores for everyone. I put things back where I found them, did my own laundry, and rinsed my dish before it went in the washer. You may want to do the same with her---that way it's not OMG you're treating me like a KID, but hey---you're an adult, and we need to you to pick up after yourself like you suuuurely do when you're by yourself.
As for coming and going, my mom told me I was an adult and could come and go as I pleased---just to let her know if I would not be back over night, that sort of thing. I didn't have to say where I was, just how long I would be gone.
posted by lacedback at 7:33 PM on October 15, 2008
She's only staying for month--therefore she IS a house guest. Does she still have her own room, decorated for her? Unless there are plans for her to move in for more than a month, it might be time to reclaim your guest room (as that's what it is, now).
However, because she's a guest she'll need all the usual provisions a long term guest needs. When she comes to visit, show her where you expect her to put her clothes, her books, and her laundry and give her--or at least express to her--the house rules regarding cleaning. Since she doesn't live with you, she can't be expected to glean these things magically, and even if she DID live with you, a chore chart never hurts.
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 8:14 AM on October 16, 2008
However, because she's a guest she'll need all the usual provisions a long term guest needs. When she comes to visit, show her where you expect her to put her clothes, her books, and her laundry and give her--or at least express to her--the house rules regarding cleaning. Since she doesn't live with you, she can't be expected to glean these things magically, and even if she DID live with you, a chore chart never hurts.
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 8:14 AM on October 16, 2008
Response by poster: Hi all. It's working out great. I think we both grew up a little while she was gone, and came to a truly painless accommodation. The advice here helped alot.
posted by nax at 8:00 AM on November 14, 2008
posted by nax at 8:00 AM on November 14, 2008
This thread is closed to new comments.
It's not about lowering expectations, it's about EXPRESSING the expectations. Sometimes in a close emotional relationship we expect the other person to just know what is right or good or wanted and see it as a failing if they do not telepathically understand that it's not just enough to help cook and clean, but that help with grocery shopping and please make sure all your empty soda cans are back downstairs every Tuesday morning because that's when Pop takes them to the store for refunds.
You already have a time limit set up, so I would just have a talk with her the first day at some point - NOT immediately when she arrives - and set expectations. Write a list if that's a way you would normally communicate. I know you're sitting there thinking, "I can't believe you expect me to TELL HER that it's unacceptable to leave a damp towel on the bannister" but you can either tell her so she doesn't do it, or not tell her and fume for a month. Make it very clear that you don't expect to have to remind her. Give her a copy of what the daily schedule is so she knows to avoid the bathroom between 7-8 and then again at 8:45 when Little Suzie runs in just in time to get her 9:15 bus.
Hope some of this makes sense and doesn't sound too judgemental.
posted by micawber at 1:00 PM on October 14, 2008 [1 favorite]