How do I deal with an angry friend?
October 13, 2008 12:26 PM Subscribe
After being refused a girl's phone number by a friend (on rather shakey grounds), I decided to get in touch with her via a social networking site we're all on. She's got a boyfriend, oh well. Meanwhile, said friend sees that we're now 'friends' on the site and sends a bunch of angry messages. Am I in the wrong, and how do I deal with this guy? [long]
A mate introduced me to an amazingly hot girl in the supermarket, who seemed really nice. After he says he used to see her for a month or so back last year and tells me all sorts of things about how hot she is. As we're talking his current girlfriend (who he's head over heels for) comes over and we don't talk about it for the rest of the night.
A few nights later we're in the pub and I ask if I can have her number, give her a call, take her for a drink etc. He refuses to give it to me, his reasoning (contrary to the logical) was this:
Although he has an amazing girlfriend who he's very lucky to be with, he'd be gutted at the thought that he wasn't getting to sleep with said hot girl, whilst I was.
[I had expected something more like 'we used to go out, but it didn't end well, sorry man, I'd rather you stayed away from her. - which I could have accepted]
So he refused to give me her number, and we leave it with me being annoyed at him and saying 'I'll meet her some other way then'.
I got in touch via the social networking site we're all on and said 'hi, remember me, fancy a drink?' To which she replied that she was flattered, but has a lovely boyfriend. Oh well. Added her as a friend, haven't bothered with her since.
Upon seeing that we're now 'friends' on the site, my friend flips out, writes on my page:
you sly, deceiving snake in the grass! I see what you've done. nothing gets passed me you little tinker! now I’m pissed off with you!
Then another text today saying:
Dude, what's with you adding [hot girl] on [social networking site]? Bit harsh man. You know I wasn't cool with it. Bit fucking sly man, not cool. How's tricks anyways?
And a third message today reading:
I text you dude. you know whats up. god is watching, and knows you are a bad friend. GOD IS WATCHING!!
(which was a little weird to say the least)
ANYWAY, had he actually forbidden me to ever meet this girl again I would have been rather annoyed, but would have stayed away. Had he said anything when I said I'd talk to her some other way, I'd have probably taken him a little more seriously.
My thoughts: He's being a greedy kid. He has an awesome girlfriend who he is very lucky to have (considering how much of an arse he can be) and is being unbelievably selfish. Then again, was it selfish of me to go after her regardless of the fact that he had used to see her? From what I could gleam of his relationship with this girl she was great for a month or so, but she was too immature for him and very clingy, so he finished things.
I'm left not knowing how to even approach this with my friend. I've been at work all day and am working late and can quite frankly do without him getting on my case about talking to a girl. I've nearly rung him a couple of times today but actually can't be bothered with the argument I know we'd have as I don't think he'd even be rational about it. We'll have to talk about it sooner or later and now I've delayed my response he's even more annoyed.
On another note, the first and third message were posted on my page on said website, which his current girlfriend can easily see. I'm genuinely confused as to why he'd want to even risk the chance that she'd gain an inkling of what's going on as if she knew what he'd said he'd surely be for the high jump.
So the question is: Was I wrong to ask this girl out? And how do I deal with my angry friend?
A mate introduced me to an amazingly hot girl in the supermarket, who seemed really nice. After he says he used to see her for a month or so back last year and tells me all sorts of things about how hot she is. As we're talking his current girlfriend (who he's head over heels for) comes over and we don't talk about it for the rest of the night.
A few nights later we're in the pub and I ask if I can have her number, give her a call, take her for a drink etc. He refuses to give it to me, his reasoning (contrary to the logical) was this:
Although he has an amazing girlfriend who he's very lucky to be with, he'd be gutted at the thought that he wasn't getting to sleep with said hot girl, whilst I was.
[I had expected something more like 'we used to go out, but it didn't end well, sorry man, I'd rather you stayed away from her. - which I could have accepted]
So he refused to give me her number, and we leave it with me being annoyed at him and saying 'I'll meet her some other way then'.
I got in touch via the social networking site we're all on and said 'hi, remember me, fancy a drink?' To which she replied that she was flattered, but has a lovely boyfriend. Oh well. Added her as a friend, haven't bothered with her since.
Upon seeing that we're now 'friends' on the site, my friend flips out, writes on my page:
you sly, deceiving snake in the grass! I see what you've done. nothing gets passed me you little tinker! now I’m pissed off with you!
Then another text today saying:
Dude, what's with you adding [hot girl] on [social networking site]? Bit harsh man. You know I wasn't cool with it. Bit fucking sly man, not cool. How's tricks anyways?
And a third message today reading:
I text you dude. you know whats up. god is watching, and knows you are a bad friend. GOD IS WATCHING!!
(which was a little weird to say the least)
ANYWAY, had he actually forbidden me to ever meet this girl again I would have been rather annoyed, but would have stayed away. Had he said anything when I said I'd talk to her some other way, I'd have probably taken him a little more seriously.
My thoughts: He's being a greedy kid. He has an awesome girlfriend who he is very lucky to have (considering how much of an arse he can be) and is being unbelievably selfish. Then again, was it selfish of me to go after her regardless of the fact that he had used to see her? From what I could gleam of his relationship with this girl she was great for a month or so, but she was too immature for him and very clingy, so he finished things.
I'm left not knowing how to even approach this with my friend. I've been at work all day and am working late and can quite frankly do without him getting on my case about talking to a girl. I've nearly rung him a couple of times today but actually can't be bothered with the argument I know we'd have as I don't think he'd even be rational about it. We'll have to talk about it sooner or later and now I've delayed my response he's even more annoyed.
On another note, the first and third message were posted on my page on said website, which his current girlfriend can easily see. I'm genuinely confused as to why he'd want to even risk the chance that she'd gain an inkling of what's going on as if she knew what he'd said he'd surely be for the high jump.
So the question is: Was I wrong to ask this girl out? And how do I deal with my angry friend?
It kinda sounds like your friend is teasing you/being fake angry. Could that perhaps be the case?
Seconding this. Does your friend normally call you "a little tinker" when he's angry?
posted by chesty_a_arthur at 12:37 PM on October 13, 2008
Seconding this. Does your friend normally call you "a little tinker" when he's angry?
posted by chesty_a_arthur at 12:37 PM on October 13, 2008
I'm sorry I got to "tinker" and couldn't stop laughing....
What a piece of work. If he isn't being fake-angry then he's sort of nuts. He didn't give you a GOOD reason not to contact her (like, she uses people, and would hurt you) just "I'd be jealous." Which is honest of him to say, but not a valid reason to keep you and the hot girl apart.
posted by Green Eyed Monster at 12:38 PM on October 13, 2008
What a piece of work. If he isn't being fake-angry then he's sort of nuts. He didn't give you a GOOD reason not to contact her (like, she uses people, and would hurt you) just "I'd be jealous." Which is honest of him to say, but not a valid reason to keep you and the hot girl apart.
posted by Green Eyed Monster at 12:38 PM on October 13, 2008
Best answer: Yes, you were wrong to ask her out. Your reasoning is totally backward. Your friend was honest with you and told you that he would feel raw about it, and even exposed his unresolved longing for her (he must trust you a lot to tell you something that his girlfriend would really hate to find out). Apparently you would have preferred a really evasive, general answer to that question (perhaps because you would still have written to her no matter what?).
You owe him an apology. Acknowledge that it was insensitive of you, that you misread both her signals and the gravity of his warning. Ignore the messages and consider them water under the bridge. What do you have to lose by doing this? Nothing. And if you start out with an apology, then you're less likely to gum things up by turning this into an unnecessary argument (in which you'd still be wrong).
posted by [NOT HERMITOSIS-IST] at 12:39 PM on October 13, 2008 [1 favorite]
You owe him an apology. Acknowledge that it was insensitive of you, that you misread both her signals and the gravity of his warning. Ignore the messages and consider them water under the bridge. What do you have to lose by doing this? Nothing. And if you start out with an apology, then you're less likely to gum things up by turning this into an unnecessary argument (in which you'd still be wrong).
posted by [NOT HERMITOSIS-IST] at 12:39 PM on October 13, 2008 [1 favorite]
Although you might consider that they have a relationship that isn't exactly what your friend said it was...
Bingo. It may not be the case, but... Going on about how hot she is, the shady excuse, her dismissing you, his flipping out over something that really is nothing... Hm. Hm.
posted by neblina_matinal at 12:39 PM on October 13, 2008 [1 favorite]
Bingo. It may not be the case, but... Going on about how hot she is, the shady excuse, her dismissing you, his flipping out over something that really is nothing... Hm. Hm.
posted by neblina_matinal at 12:39 PM on October 13, 2008 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: I think he's pretty damn fuming. He's just trying not to sound too crazy by half-joking, which I think you'll agree he hasn't managed.
posted by Surfyournut at 12:41 PM on October 13, 2008
posted by Surfyournut at 12:41 PM on October 13, 2008
god is watching, and knows you are a bad friend. GOD IS WATCHING!! (which was a little weird to say the least)
He's insane or he's kidding - either way, maybe pretend you think he's kidding? If you find out he's actually insane, it doesn't matter how you deal with it really - he'll still be insane. May as well tell him you think he's insane.
Oh did I say I think he's insane? I meant to say that.
posted by fritley at 12:41 PM on October 13, 2008
He's insane or he's kidding - either way, maybe pretend you think he's kidding? If you find out he's actually insane, it doesn't matter how you deal with it really - he'll still be insane. May as well tell him you think he's insane.
Oh did I say I think he's insane? I meant to say that.
posted by fritley at 12:41 PM on October 13, 2008
Best answer: Tell him that he was being ridiculous not to give you her number in the first place
I'd heavily disagree with this perspective. In my moral book, people give their numbers out themselves, no exceptions other than "give so-and-so my number" - ie explicitly giving approval for that person to be allowed their number.
However, it may have been done clumsily, but he did express a view that he'd rather not have you pursuing the girl. His reasoning is selfish and bizarrely stated, but he asked you (essentially) not to pursue her. You decided to do so anyway on a technicality and have consequences (feigned or not).
Neither of you are entirely without blame for creating this drama, but being as you both sound like 16 year olds, I'm sure the drama will disappear. Being as she has a boyfriend, if you value your friendship, I'd just make amends with him and try and smooth it over.
posted by Brockles at 12:42 PM on October 13, 2008
I'd heavily disagree with this perspective. In my moral book, people give their numbers out themselves, no exceptions other than "give so-and-so my number" - ie explicitly giving approval for that person to be allowed their number.
However, it may have been done clumsily, but he did express a view that he'd rather not have you pursuing the girl. His reasoning is selfish and bizarrely stated, but he asked you (essentially) not to pursue her. You decided to do so anyway on a technicality and have consequences (feigned or not).
Neither of you are entirely without blame for creating this drama, but being as you both sound like 16 year olds, I'm sure the drama will disappear. Being as she has a boyfriend, if you value your friendship, I'd just make amends with him and try and smooth it over.
posted by Brockles at 12:42 PM on October 13, 2008
You were wrong, and you should apologize to your friend for hitting on a girl you know he had feelings for.
posted by nicwolff at 12:42 PM on October 13, 2008
posted by nicwolff at 12:42 PM on October 13, 2008
What a lame ass. Just ask the girl out and don't deal with your friend. Tell him it's none of his business.
posted by HotPatatta at 12:43 PM on October 13, 2008
posted by HotPatatta at 12:43 PM on October 13, 2008
Response by poster: Thanks for your answer [NOT HERMITOSIS-IST], that's actually what I was kind of hoping to hear just so I could get the opposite perspective on things. I'm not the best at always seeing every point of view. I'll ponder this further. Keep the answers coming though, thanks all.
posted by Surfyournut at 12:43 PM on October 13, 2008
posted by Surfyournut at 12:43 PM on October 13, 2008
He's cheating on his girlfriend with this other girl. Just let it drop... or, if you want to be passive aggressive, leave a suggestive message on his wall for his gf to see (about how you're sorry for talking to X, didn't know he'd flip out about it, etc). He opened the door.
posted by sbutler at 12:44 PM on October 13, 2008
posted by sbutler at 12:44 PM on October 13, 2008
Best answer: I don't think an apology is required. Give one if you don't care to lose the guy as a friend, but you didn't do anything wrong.
A guy I knew kept asking me if I'd be ok with him asking out a past girlfriend of mine. I told him he was asking the wrong person.
Your friend doesn't hold the lease on this woman.
It's hard enough to meet people to go worrying about what others are going to think just because you asked someone out.
And regardless, he didn't see the message you wrote to her, did he? Just that you added her as a friend? Bah, scary. I have people I don't even know as friends on several of the SN sites.
posted by cjorgensen at 12:58 PM on October 13, 2008
A guy I knew kept asking me if I'd be ok with him asking out a past girlfriend of mine. I told him he was asking the wrong person.
Your friend doesn't hold the lease on this woman.
It's hard enough to meet people to go worrying about what others are going to think just because you asked someone out.
And regardless, he didn't see the message you wrote to her, did he? Just that you added her as a friend? Bah, scary. I have people I don't even know as friends on several of the SN sites.
posted by cjorgensen at 12:58 PM on October 13, 2008
Best answer: As a female person, a guy that wants to control who I have as a friend, even just a facebook friend, is a dick. Not wanting somebody to sleep with his former gf? when he's in a relationship? dick.
posted by theora55 at 1:00 PM on October 13, 2008 [11 favorites]
posted by theora55 at 1:00 PM on October 13, 2008 [11 favorites]
Best answer: I would not give a friend's number out to someone they barely knew. This goes 1000× for someone who wanted the number so they could solicit my friend. So I don't think your friend was wrong to refuse you the number for any reason.
The reaction at this point is a bit over the top though.
posted by grouse at 1:00 PM on October 13, 2008
The reaction at this point is a bit over the top though.
posted by grouse at 1:00 PM on October 13, 2008
I think he thinks you broke the "friend code," i.e. ex-girlfriends of your mates are off-limits. He's being rather disingenuous, though, as he's currently taken, and from your characterization, they didn't have a deep and meaningful relationship.
If I were you, I'd send him a message to the effect of "Chill out. It's moot anyway, she's got a boyfriend."
And then I'd compare him unfavorably to a dog spraying a tree to mark it as his exclusive pissing territory.
Disclaimer: I'm not a guy, or you.
posted by desuetude at 1:02 PM on October 13, 2008 [1 favorite]
If I were you, I'd send him a message to the effect of "Chill out. It's moot anyway, she's got a boyfriend."
And then I'd compare him unfavorably to a dog spraying a tree to mark it as his exclusive pissing territory.
Disclaimer: I'm not a guy, or you.
posted by desuetude at 1:02 PM on October 13, 2008 [1 favorite]
Best answer: I'd say you're both wrong:
- You're wrong for asking someone out after your friend shared his feelings for her, and asked you not to. You decided to put your desire for the girl over your friend's feelings for the girl, which is a friendship no-no. You should apologize for asking her out.
- He's wrong for giving you a hard time for being friends with her, be it in real life or on a social networking site. Not dating her is the right thing to do as a guy friend, but pretending she does not exist is quite another. He's got feelings for this girl, still, and they're clouding his better judgement. Your above apology should come with a caveat, that yeah, you shouldn't have made the move, but he shouldn't be such an ass about you being friends with her.
It's also possible that he was lying to you about having been involved with her, and knows that if you start dating her or otherwise get to know her, his lie will be revealed -- so that's something to think about. If that's the case, he's at fault across the board.
posted by davejay at 1:06 PM on October 13, 2008 [2 favorites]
- You're wrong for asking someone out after your friend shared his feelings for her, and asked you not to. You decided to put your desire for the girl over your friend's feelings for the girl, which is a friendship no-no. You should apologize for asking her out.
- He's wrong for giving you a hard time for being friends with her, be it in real life or on a social networking site. Not dating her is the right thing to do as a guy friend, but pretending she does not exist is quite another. He's got feelings for this girl, still, and they're clouding his better judgement. Your above apology should come with a caveat, that yeah, you shouldn't have made the move, but he shouldn't be such an ass about you being friends with her.
It's also possible that he was lying to you about having been involved with her, and knows that if you start dating her or otherwise get to know her, his lie will be revealed -- so that's something to think about. If that's the case, he's at fault across the board.
posted by davejay at 1:06 PM on October 13, 2008 [2 favorites]
Best answer: I don't think you were in the wrong, but your friend clearly has some emotional issues with this girl that it'd be best to defuse. I would say something like:
"Hey, man, I'm sorry. She's really hot and I didn't realize you were so serious about it. Nothing is going to happen between her and me anyway so let's drop it."
posted by Solon and Thanks at 1:09 PM on October 13, 2008
"Hey, man, I'm sorry. She's really hot and I didn't realize you were so serious about it. Nothing is going to happen between her and me anyway so let's drop it."
posted by Solon and Thanks at 1:09 PM on October 13, 2008
Response by poster: I'm increasingly thinking that if a guy asked me for a girls' number, I'd at least ask her permission, so perhaps he was right in that sense. His sentiment was flawed, or at least a front for the truth; that he just plainly didn't want me to pursue her (as some of you have said).
I must address one or two things that have come up:
He and I are good friends. We have occasion to argue occasionally but never yet seriously.
He is not cheating on his girlfriend, he's just being obstructive.
I agree there is some fault on my part, but am still inclined to think there is far more fault on his. My housemate has just suggested that he was either trying to put me off (saying she was immature and clingy) or covering for deeper feelings - as previously mentioned.
Some good answers and lots to think about.
posted by Surfyournut at 1:17 PM on October 13, 2008
I must address one or two things that have come up:
He and I are good friends. We have occasion to argue occasionally but never yet seriously.
He is not cheating on his girlfriend, he's just being obstructive.
I agree there is some fault on my part, but am still inclined to think there is far more fault on his. My housemate has just suggested that he was either trying to put me off (saying she was immature and clingy) or covering for deeper feelings - as previously mentioned.
Some good answers and lots to think about.
posted by Surfyournut at 1:17 PM on October 13, 2008
He said that he'd be upset if you asked her out, you asked her out, he's upset. Can't say I'm surprised. Don't break the bro code, man.
posted by sjuhawk31 at 1:21 PM on October 13, 2008
posted by sjuhawk31 at 1:21 PM on October 13, 2008
Was I wrong to ask this girl out?
No. He's had at least 10 months to get over the relationship he had with her. The relationship he did have with her apparently wasn't all that great, seeing as how they broke up after a month or so. He is (I'm assuming) a grown adult. He has no "claim" on her whatsoever. I think he's just jealous, which is something entirely to do with him. You making a move on [girl] has nothing to do with him, therefore it wasn't wrong of you to ask her out. He's had enough time to deal with the breakup. It's not like it happened last week.
And how do I deal with my angry friend?
This I have no answer to. What I would do is reconsider my friendship with someone who felt they have a right to direct my romantic relationships.
posted by Solomon at 1:21 PM on October 13, 2008 [1 favorite]
No. He's had at least 10 months to get over the relationship he had with her. The relationship he did have with her apparently wasn't all that great, seeing as how they broke up after a month or so. He is (I'm assuming) a grown adult. He has no "claim" on her whatsoever. I think he's just jealous, which is something entirely to do with him. You making a move on [girl] has nothing to do with him, therefore it wasn't wrong of you to ask her out. He's had enough time to deal with the breakup. It's not like it happened last week.
And how do I deal with my angry friend?
This I have no answer to. What I would do is reconsider my friendship with someone who felt they have a right to direct my romantic relationships.
posted by Solomon at 1:21 PM on October 13, 2008 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: In my reply to his last message I told him that I was still at work (home now) and that I'd talk to him later, but not to go psycho in the mean time. I also said that it was moot anyway as she wasn't interested, and that he should have made it clear that he had deeper feelings for this girl than he portrayed.
His reply:
"I'm not really that annoyed. It's only cause I clearly didn't want you to speak to her but you did anyway. Just feel a bit like you took the piss and went behind my back. Don't worry about it though dude. I'm not one to hold a grudge against someone I actually like, and you're on the good side of that line so it's all smiles."
I'm just a bit annoyed at his semi-threatening tone.
But yes, this is turning into a mediocre tv drama, so answers are still welcome, but I'll save any update for as and when we get this resolved.
And as far as the 'bro code' is concerned, I'd rather settle this as adults than as gang members.
posted by Surfyournut at 1:31 PM on October 13, 2008 [1 favorite]
His reply:
"I'm not really that annoyed. It's only cause I clearly didn't want you to speak to her but you did anyway. Just feel a bit like you took the piss and went behind my back. Don't worry about it though dude. I'm not one to hold a grudge against someone I actually like, and you're on the good side of that line so it's all smiles."
I'm just a bit annoyed at his semi-threatening tone.
But yes, this is turning into a mediocre tv drama, so answers are still welcome, but I'll save any update for as and when we get this resolved.
And as far as the 'bro code' is concerned, I'd rather settle this as adults than as gang members.
posted by Surfyournut at 1:31 PM on October 13, 2008 [1 favorite]
The only thing you should have done differently in my opinion was tell him tough luck, pal, all's fair in love and war, I'll track her down on my own. His objection to your trying a move isn't reasonable, but given that objection, fair warning would have at least indemnified you to his "behind the back" objection. I think he was probably trying to be funny (though obviously it was fueled by genuine ire with you) with the more over-the-top "god is watching" replies, but it's all moot now and seems the kind of thing a reasonably good friendship should gloss over and put behind it.
posted by nanojath at 1:42 PM on October 13, 2008
posted by nanojath at 1:42 PM on October 13, 2008
It's only cause I clearly didn't want you to speak to her but you did anyway.
If this girl didn't have a boyfriend, maybe she would have been interested in you romantically. Maybe not, but you never know: that's why you ask. And when you were rejected with reason, it seems like you handled it maturely and nicely.
So in addition to being a grade-A cockblock, this dude is trying to prevent anyone he knows from dating someone because he still has the hots for her. He's being a dick to both of you, frankly. Maybe he'll grow out of it in a few years, but tread cautiously around jealous, immature dudes. Don't share your secrets with him, ever.
posted by Optimus Chyme at 1:50 PM on October 13, 2008 [3 favorites]
If this girl didn't have a boyfriend, maybe she would have been interested in you romantically. Maybe not, but you never know: that's why you ask. And when you were rejected with reason, it seems like you handled it maturely and nicely.
So in addition to being a grade-A cockblock, this dude is trying to prevent anyone he knows from dating someone because he still has the hots for her. He's being a dick to both of you, frankly. Maybe he'll grow out of it in a few years, but tread cautiously around jealous, immature dudes. Don't share your secrets with him, ever.
posted by Optimus Chyme at 1:50 PM on October 13, 2008 [3 favorites]
I think you make a really important distinction: if this girl had been your friend’s serious, long-term girlfriend or had broken his heart, so that seeing her with you would renew his grief over the relationship, you would do well to stay away from her; if your friend is only being a selfish pig in his attitude toward this girl (“she’s hot, I have a girlfriend, therefore you can’t date her because I’ll be jealous”), then you did nothing wrong in calling her.
Of course, given his unreasonable explanation for wanting to keep you away from her, you probably could have predicted his ire at your contact with her. It’s not justified, it’s not logical, but it’s not shocking given what he said before. So, you did nothing wrong, but now you know to steer clear of anyone he has his wandering eye on OR to stop being friends with him because he’s kind of an unreasonable jerk.
posted by Meg_Murry at 1:55 PM on October 13, 2008
Of course, given his unreasonable explanation for wanting to keep you away from her, you probably could have predicted his ire at your contact with her. It’s not justified, it’s not logical, but it’s not shocking given what he said before. So, you did nothing wrong, but now you know to steer clear of anyone he has his wandering eye on OR to stop being friends with him because he’s kind of an unreasonable jerk.
posted by Meg_Murry at 1:55 PM on October 13, 2008
Best answer: I've had this happen to me a few times, I'm completely weirded out by such possessive behaviors, especially when guys, for lack of a better phrase, keep girls in the hopper should they become single. Seriously, I had a friend who refused to introduce me / say anything nice about me in front of any female friends he had a crush on (!) in case he "broke up with his girlfriend." I thought he was joking until I discovered him actively sabotaging me. Incredibly creepy, we're not friends anymore, though he's incredibly popular with the ladies, so maybe it is me that is doing something wrong.
In the same vein, I have another friend of a friend whose ex-girlfriend ended up marrying his best friend. I thought it was great and inquired as to whether they were all friends, no exact opposite. Friend 1 didn't like Friend 2 was dating his ex-girlfriend, and ex of over 2 years, let alone having Friend 2 marry ex-girlfriend. Childish? Selfish? I think so, they don't talk anymore which is a shame, they were good friends.
Yes guys are like that, yes it is often times relationship ruining. It is one of those things that really catch you by the blind side as seemingly normal, functioning people get really possessive about this sort of thing. You really don't spot it until it happens.
posted by geoff. at 1:58 PM on October 13, 2008
In the same vein, I have another friend of a friend whose ex-girlfriend ended up marrying his best friend. I thought it was great and inquired as to whether they were all friends, no exact opposite. Friend 1 didn't like Friend 2 was dating his ex-girlfriend, and ex of over 2 years, let alone having Friend 2 marry ex-girlfriend. Childish? Selfish? I think so, they don't talk anymore which is a shame, they were good friends.
Yes guys are like that, yes it is often times relationship ruining. It is one of those things that really catch you by the blind side as seemingly normal, functioning people get really possessive about this sort of thing. You really don't spot it until it happens.
posted by geoff. at 1:58 PM on October 13, 2008
Best answer: I am quite surprised at many of the reactions here about dating friend's exes.
In my social circle, you ALWAYS check with a close friend if he objects before making a move on an ex. If it ain't all dealt with for him, then it ain't all dealt with, regardless of how many people he has slept with/is attached to since.
And "I'd not be all that comfortable with it" would be respected unless there was some sort of sign of thunderclap/love on first sight type stuff, then it may get revisited as a discussion.
Odd. I think it's disrespectful not to consider your friend's feelings - the same goes for siblings/offspring of friends, too.
Consequently, pursuing the girl after being discouraged is wrong, in my book. His behaviour afterwards is an over reaction, but not unexpected after a direct refusal to respect his wishes.
posted by Brockles at 2:11 PM on October 13, 2008 [1 favorite]
In my social circle, you ALWAYS check with a close friend if he objects before making a move on an ex. If it ain't all dealt with for him, then it ain't all dealt with, regardless of how many people he has slept with/is attached to since.
And "I'd not be all that comfortable with it" would be respected unless there was some sort of sign of thunderclap/love on first sight type stuff, then it may get revisited as a discussion.
Odd. I think it's disrespectful not to consider your friend's feelings - the same goes for siblings/offspring of friends, too.
Consequently, pursuing the girl after being discouraged is wrong, in my book. His behaviour afterwards is an over reaction, but not unexpected after a direct refusal to respect his wishes.
posted by Brockles at 2:11 PM on October 13, 2008 [1 favorite]
Best answer: I actually disagree with [NOT HERMITOSIS-IST] 100%. Friends don't have the right to control who their friends see or spend time with. I believe there is a dude code about ex-girlfriends, but in my opinion its only applicable for a few girls, the ones that did a real number on you - the ones that left you standing in the rain crying, or whatever. Some girl you saw for a month 10 months ago? Please.
Imagine meeting a girl or a guy somewhere and you felt that spark, but nothing came from it and you eventually found out it was because some random girl/guy you saw for a month and broke up with [probably within good reason] forbid it. Life is too short for such petty and childish actions.
posted by mattsweaters at 2:12 PM on October 13, 2008 [2 favorites]
Imagine meeting a girl or a guy somewhere and you felt that spark, but nothing came from it and you eventually found out it was because some random girl/guy you saw for a month and broke up with [probably within good reason] forbid it. Life is too short for such petty and childish actions.
posted by mattsweaters at 2:12 PM on October 13, 2008 [2 favorites]
Best answer: As a female type person, I would be mightily pissed off if I found that some guy was telling other men that they were not to go out with me, or even call me or Facebook friend me. Women are not property and do not usually like to be treated as such.
Your friend is out of line.
posted by OolooKitty at 2:17 PM on October 13, 2008 [17 favorites]
Your friend is out of line.
posted by OolooKitty at 2:17 PM on October 13, 2008 [17 favorites]
Best answer: He's acting like an idiot, but in the future, please ask the girl for her number instead of one of her friends. It puts them in a weird position and you look like you don't have the stones to ask her yourself. Neither of those are good things.
posted by PFL at 2:18 PM on October 13, 2008
posted by PFL at 2:18 PM on October 13, 2008
Dittoing a lot of what geoff said: given my own experiences with friends actively preventing me (and anyone else they caught wind of) from getting anywhere with "their" backup-plans, I'd automatically assume that's what was up here. Folks who pull this usually think they can get that person anytime they want, and if they've dated them previously they may have even more reason to think so... but the backup plan only works if the person stays available.
I actually thought this behavior was so common as to be universal -- I've not only had male friends sabotage my attempts at dating "their" girls, but had female friends who turned out to be keeping me as a backup plan sabotage the attempts of other girls to date me. Seemed like most of the folks I knew in my 20s had such backup plans, at least.
posted by Pufferish at 2:31 PM on October 13, 2008
I actually thought this behavior was so common as to be universal -- I've not only had male friends sabotage my attempts at dating "their" girls, but had female friends who turned out to be keeping me as a backup plan sabotage the attempts of other girls to date me. Seemed like most of the folks I knew in my 20s had such backup plans, at least.
posted by Pufferish at 2:31 PM on October 13, 2008
Best answer: Well, as a general rule my friends and I don't date each others exes. It's usually not a good idea. If it does happen there has to be explicit understanding and agreement on both sides. Call it sexist if you like to 'negotiate' about exes like they don't have a say in the matter, but friendship is an important thing that can and has been ruined by significant others in the past. Ultimately it's not up to anyone else who you date, but a relationship can have an impact beyond the two people involved.
Your friend didn't deal with it very gracefully however.
posted by slimepuppy at 2:39 PM on October 13, 2008
Your friend didn't deal with it very gracefully however.
posted by slimepuppy at 2:39 PM on October 13, 2008
[NOT HERMITOSIS-IST] sums it up.
I don't think it's a guy being a possessive jerk thing either. I'm a perfectly adult female and if a friend of mine asked for someone's number and I said no, explaining why, I would be pissed if I just randomly saw they were linked as friends on some site. It's a respecting your friend thing. Yeah, he doesn't get to control who that girl sees or who you see or whatever, but I don't blame him for expecting you to back up.
I see from your follow-up that he's not even that pissed, which I kind of expected. Apologize, at the very least for not telling him that you did it when you did it.
posted by KAS at 2:51 PM on October 13, 2008
I don't think it's a guy being a possessive jerk thing either. I'm a perfectly adult female and if a friend of mine asked for someone's number and I said no, explaining why, I would be pissed if I just randomly saw they were linked as friends on some site. It's a respecting your friend thing. Yeah, he doesn't get to control who that girl sees or who you see or whatever, but I don't blame him for expecting you to back up.
I see from your follow-up that he's not even that pissed, which I kind of expected. Apologize, at the very least for not telling him that you did it when you did it.
posted by KAS at 2:51 PM on October 13, 2008
Best answer: People who are claiming (paraphrasing) "Women aren't property; your friend can't decide for his ex who she can or cannot date" are, I think, missing the point. Sure, technically, your friend cannot prevent you or this woman from dating whoever either or you wants, including each other. So if you follow the "all's fair in love and war" mantra and believe satisfying your own person desires should always be given higher priority than being respectful of the feelings of your friends, then you did nothing wrong in trying to pursue this woman.
If you are a person who values his friendships, however, I can see from your friend's perspective why he feels you did a crummy thing to him He let you know, explicitly, that he was uncomfortable with you, his good friend, dating someone he was intimately involved with recently and obviously still has unresolved feelings for. You, after receiving this information, decided to sneak around and try to pursue her anyway, knowing he would be upset. You put your lustful feelings for a woman you met once, briefly, at the store ahead of a close friendship. Not quite worth make a federal case over, but it's not like your friend it coming out of left field in being upset either.
posted by The Gooch at 2:52 PM on October 13, 2008
If you are a person who values his friendships, however, I can see from your friend's perspective why he feels you did a crummy thing to him He let you know, explicitly, that he was uncomfortable with you, his good friend, dating someone he was intimately involved with recently and obviously still has unresolved feelings for. You, after receiving this information, decided to sneak around and try to pursue her anyway, knowing he would be upset. You put your lustful feelings for a woman you met once, briefly, at the store ahead of a close friendship. Not quite worth make a federal case over, but it's not like your friend it coming out of left field in being upset either.
posted by The Gooch at 2:52 PM on October 13, 2008
I think I'd answer something like "that's what [lame-ass social networking sites] are for: connecting with people when the other ways don't work."
posted by rokusan at 2:57 PM on October 13, 2008
posted by rokusan at 2:57 PM on October 13, 2008
You know when one party controls who the other party sees/hangs out with/communicates with, that's a form of abuse, right? On the other hand, he was pretty straightforward about it, and seems to be being good-natured about it (to an extent), so it'd probably be easiest just to be all "Sorry bro, I didn't know you were so serious about it, but we're just gonna hang out and have a drink, y'know?" I mean, he only saw the girl for a month, so it's not like they were soulmates or anything.
posted by turgid dahlia at 3:00 PM on October 13, 2008
posted by turgid dahlia at 3:00 PM on October 13, 2008
People who are claiming (paraphrasing) "Women aren't property; your friend can't decide for his ex who she can or cannot date" are, I think, missing the point.
Agreed. I think he is perfectly justified in being pissed at the OP for going behind his back and against his wishes. It is about respect for his friend's wishes, not 'ownership' of the girl that makes it wrong to continue approaching her. He asked you not to, you did anyway. The whys and wherefores are irrelevant, you deliberately and knowingly ignored his feelings on the issue.
posted by Brockles at 3:00 PM on October 13, 2008
Agreed. I think he is perfectly justified in being pissed at the OP for going behind his back and against his wishes. It is about respect for his friend's wishes, not 'ownership' of the girl that makes it wrong to continue approaching her. He asked you not to, you did anyway. The whys and wherefores are irrelevant, you deliberately and knowingly ignored his feelings on the issue.
posted by Brockles at 3:00 PM on October 13, 2008
Here's the thing: your friend wants to feel like he can trust you to NOT do things that hurt his feelings no matter how ridiculous his feelings are.
And it's not like you were in love with this girl (or even knew her at all), basically you just wanted to bang her. And you decided that was more important than your friend's feelings.
You should've talked it through more with your friend prior to taking any action. Not saying you shouldn't have contacted her - just that you didn't need to be so forceful and deal with your friend so summarily.
posted by GIRLesq at 3:54 PM on October 13, 2008
And it's not like you were in love with this girl (or even knew her at all), basically you just wanted to bang her. And you decided that was more important than your friend's feelings.
You should've talked it through more with your friend prior to taking any action. Not saying you shouldn't have contacted her - just that you didn't need to be so forceful and deal with your friend so summarily.
posted by GIRLesq at 3:54 PM on October 13, 2008
From your description, it sounds like your friend is a controlling, judgmental person. I would perhaps think about whether they are this way in other situations, and whether it's reasonable to hang out with them.
As others have said, yes, you could have anticipated that your friend would react this way. However, your friend's reaction was unreasonable.
Tiptoeing around unreasonable people's issues is unhealthy. It may make more sense to have a more distant relationship with your friend.
posted by zippy at 4:39 PM on October 13, 2008
As others have said, yes, you could have anticipated that your friend would react this way. However, your friend's reaction was unreasonable.
Tiptoeing around unreasonable people's issues is unhealthy. It may make more sense to have a more distant relationship with your friend.
posted by zippy at 4:39 PM on October 13, 2008
Okay, so perhaps neither the friend or the OP behaved as well as they should, but I'm not quite sure why the OP should indulge the friend, who is essentially behaving childishly. The friend made what the OP considered to be an unreasonable request. The OP then stated to the friend that he was going to get in touch with her anyway - he stated his intentions. He didn't go behind the friend's back.
Should a person respect a friend's wishes, if they are childish or clash with your own wishes?
I've been in situations where a friend didn't want me to be friends with person they used to date. Just friends. It was like I had to 'choose', and 'choose them' or I was saying didn't care about them, and I was ignoring their feelings. This seems like a variation on that situation.
Anyway, good luck OP.
posted by anitanita at 4:40 PM on October 13, 2008
Should a person respect a friend's wishes, if they are childish or clash with your own wishes?
I've been in situations where a friend didn't want me to be friends with person they used to date. Just friends. It was like I had to 'choose', and 'choose them' or I was saying didn't care about them, and I was ignoring their feelings. This seems like a variation on that situation.
Anyway, good luck OP.
posted by anitanita at 4:40 PM on October 13, 2008
Best answer: If a friend of mine gave out my phone number to someone I met at the supermarket, they would not be my friend for much longer.
posted by finding.perdita at 5:12 PM on October 13, 2008
posted by finding.perdita at 5:12 PM on October 13, 2008
Another perspective worth thinking about is that a lot of the components of this situation are subject to the opinion of your social circle. I've met guys who range from "Any girl is fair game, including the one you're dating" to "If anyone you've ever known has had feelings for her, she's off limits". The question is: what sort of social circle do you want to be a part of?
If you think he's acting reasonable, apologize. If you don't (and it doesn't sound like you do), tell him to get bent. While there are a range of opinions on things like this, a lot of it is up to you.
I, for one, would take a step away from this guy.
posted by systematic at 5:50 PM on October 13, 2008
If you think he's acting reasonable, apologize. If you don't (and it doesn't sound like you do), tell him to get bent. While there are a range of opinions on things like this, a lot of it is up to you.
I, for one, would take a step away from this guy.
posted by systematic at 5:50 PM on October 13, 2008
Best answer: People who are claiming (paraphrasing) "Women aren't property; your friend can't decide for his ex who she can or cannot date" are, I think, missing the point.
No, I don't think so. OP's friend feels like this woman is somehow his property, even in the smallest sense. He is asking OP to respect that property right. OP might feel that women are not property. This is not a case of a silly little thing one puts up with because they are friends with someone. There is a third person here.
I think there would be a distinct difference if the woman in this case was an ex of the friend who, as someone upthread said, had done a number on the friend. That is different. In that case there are feelings and emotions which the friend would have rightful ownership of-- feelings of hurt or abandonment. These are feelings we can have respect for. Ownership or another human being, no matter how casual or bro-code? Nope. Sorry.
posted by oflinkey at 6:17 PM on October 13, 2008 [2 favorites]
No, I don't think so. OP's friend feels like this woman is somehow his property, even in the smallest sense. He is asking OP to respect that property right. OP might feel that women are not property. This is not a case of a silly little thing one puts up with because they are friends with someone. There is a third person here.
I think there would be a distinct difference if the woman in this case was an ex of the friend who, as someone upthread said, had done a number on the friend. That is different. In that case there are feelings and emotions which the friend would have rightful ownership of-- feelings of hurt or abandonment. These are feelings we can have respect for. Ownership or another human being, no matter how casual or bro-code? Nope. Sorry.
posted by oflinkey at 6:17 PM on October 13, 2008 [2 favorites]
You weren't wrong to ask her out. Your friend's messages strike me as jokey, as if he knows he's being ridiculous but can't help himself. I don't think you should get all pissed off, but be jokey and defiant in return, as in, 'of course I went for it. Did you SEE that girl??? That's life. You broke up with HER.' and leave it there.
There shouldn't be a ton of things to argue about here.
posted by A Terrible Llama at 2:18 AM on October 14, 2008
There shouldn't be a ton of things to argue about here.
posted by A Terrible Llama at 2:18 AM on October 14, 2008
OP's friend feels like this woman is somehow his property, even in the smallest sense. He is asking OP to respect that property right. OP might feel that women are not property. This is not a case of a silly little thing one puts up with because they are friends with someone.
Again, I think the "He doesn't own her, he can't decide who she's allowed to date" argument is a red herring that only serves to distract from the real issue.
The OP's friend isn't upset because he feels Surfyournut somehow violated his property rights. He's upset because he let Surfyournut know he had dated this woman in the past, still obviously has feelings for her and made himself vulnerable by telling Surfyournut it would make him uncomfortable having a close friend of his date somehow he was involved with previously and still has unresolved feelings towards. Surfyournut took that information and still decided to pursue her anyway, knowing all along it would make his friend upset. The friend is mad not because he "owns" this woman and Surfyournut tried to steal her, but because his friend put his desire to get laid ahead of their friendship.
posted by The Gooch at 5:26 AM on October 14, 2008
Again, I think the "He doesn't own her, he can't decide who she's allowed to date" argument is a red herring that only serves to distract from the real issue.
The OP's friend isn't upset because he feels Surfyournut somehow violated his property rights. He's upset because he let Surfyournut know he had dated this woman in the past, still obviously has feelings for her and made himself vulnerable by telling Surfyournut it would make him uncomfortable having a close friend of his date somehow he was involved with previously and still has unresolved feelings towards. Surfyournut took that information and still decided to pursue her anyway, knowing all along it would make his friend upset. The friend is mad not because he "owns" this woman and Surfyournut tried to steal her, but because his friend put his desire to get laid ahead of their friendship.
posted by The Gooch at 5:26 AM on October 14, 2008
If the 'ownership' issue was relevant, it probably would have come up in this thread as well.
posted by and hosted from Uranus at 9:07 AM on October 14, 2008
posted by and hosted from Uranus at 9:07 AM on October 14, 2008
I think the ownership rights do come up. I believe the OP quoted friend: "he'd be gutted at the thought that he wasn't getting to sleep with said hot girl, whilst I was". That sounds like jealous. Possession, or at least intent or wish for possession.
As for the chicks before dicks, I did read that, too, and there seems to b e an issue of possession there on the part of the married woman, but this is not the thread for that discussion.
posted by oflinkey at 9:15 AM on October 14, 2008
As for the chicks before dicks, I did read that, too, and there seems to b e an issue of possession there on the part of the married woman, but this is not the thread for that discussion.
posted by oflinkey at 9:15 AM on October 14, 2008
Best answer: I think "ownership" is exactly the wrong concept here, and it feels uncomfortably like a, yes, red herring - as I see someone else mentioned upthread. I am (also) a perfectly adult female who understands why Surfyournut's friend feels that a boundary was crossed and reacted a bit out of hand as a result. It has nothing to do with "ownership" of this woman at all. Friend admitted jealousy and acted a bit of a dick, agreed, but IMO it was respectful of him not to give out her phone number in the first place, period. After being warned off, I do believe that the OP simply crossed a boundary of friendship... and respect, for that matter, for both Friend and Friend's Ex, when he then (somewhat underhandedly) decided to pursue it further.
that's all. The OMGSexism!!! camp is free to think what they like of course, but this same boundary issue would honestly apply whether we were talking friends or borrowing a roommate's clothes without asking.
posted by lonefrontranger at 9:42 PM on October 14, 2008 [1 favorite]
that's all. The OMGSexism!!! camp is free to think what they like of course, but this same boundary issue would honestly apply whether we were talking friends or borrowing a roommate's clothes without asking.
posted by lonefrontranger at 9:42 PM on October 14, 2008 [1 favorite]
i feel like this should all be settled by the e-mail response he sent to you. he was trying to make amends ("i'm not really that annoyed"), explain his reasoning ("it's only because i clearly didn't want you to speak to her but you did anyway") and agreed to let it go ("don't worry about it though dude. i'm not one to hold a grudge against someone i actually like, and you're on the good side of that line so it's all smiles.")
that should be the end of it, regardless of whether or not you think you did something wrong.
posted by dithmer at 10:03 PM on October 14, 2008
that should be the end of it, regardless of whether or not you think you did something wrong.
posted by dithmer at 10:03 PM on October 14, 2008
Response by poster: I asked this question a fair while ago but will try and summarise the conclusion to this particular little exercise in social awareness:
After reading all of the above comments and advice (which I thoroughly appreciated, thanks all), I gave him a few days to cool off and then rang up for a chat. We essentially both acted like the adults we are, instead of the jealous kids we had been playing at, apologised for each being insensitive/overzealous/arrogant etc., explained where we were each coming from and made up.
Advice I paid particular attention to:
(though I haven't had time recently to re-read everything beyond a quick skim)
Suggesting that he had unresolved feelings for this girl that he hadn't made clear – which he admitted to.
Considering that I had been selfish in ignoring his request – certainly, but he also later said that he didn't blame me for ignoring his retrospectively unreasonable demands.
The comments that as a girl, one wouldn't appreciate a friend giving out one's phone number – A very good point, I obviously didn't consider her potential reaction to that.
I did, however, disregard notions that he may not be worth having as a friend if he was going to (re)act in the way that he did. Friends shouldn't let something like that come between them, and as it turns out we both overreacted and forgot about it completely within a few days.
Lessons learned, life lived, thanks everyone. See you at the next crisis ;)
posted by Surfyournut at 3:54 PM on March 19, 2009 [2 favorites]
After reading all of the above comments and advice (which I thoroughly appreciated, thanks all), I gave him a few days to cool off and then rang up for a chat. We essentially both acted like the adults we are, instead of the jealous kids we had been playing at, apologised for each being insensitive/overzealous/arrogant etc., explained where we were each coming from and made up.
Advice I paid particular attention to:
(though I haven't had time recently to re-read everything beyond a quick skim)
Suggesting that he had unresolved feelings for this girl that he hadn't made clear – which he admitted to.
Considering that I had been selfish in ignoring his request – certainly, but he also later said that he didn't blame me for ignoring his retrospectively unreasonable demands.
The comments that as a girl, one wouldn't appreciate a friend giving out one's phone number – A very good point, I obviously didn't consider her potential reaction to that.
I did, however, disregard notions that he may not be worth having as a friend if he was going to (re)act in the way that he did. Friends shouldn't let something like that come between them, and as it turns out we both overreacted and forgot about it completely within a few days.
Lessons learned, life lived, thanks everyone. See you at the next crisis ;)
posted by Surfyournut at 3:54 PM on March 19, 2009 [2 favorites]
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This thread is closed to new comments.
How do you deal with this friend? Man, that's harder to answer. If he's being serious about this, walk away and don't look back. If he's just giving you a good natured (but odd, really odd) ribbing about the situation then deal with it, or let him know he's made his point and to knock it off.
You've got a weird friend though.
posted by spikeleemajortomdickandharryconnickjrmints at 12:32 PM on October 13, 2008 [2 favorites]