Comments on: I'm trapped in a surname factory and I can't get out!

Question: I'm trapped in a surname factory and I can't get out!

kalessin — Thu, 09 Oct 2008 05:18:56 -0800

My subcontinental Indian co-workers and vendors keep using my surname as my first name when corresponding with me in e-mail. Why?

Also, what's a good way to correct folks who do this while being as polite and supportive as possible?

My name (at work - my full legal name is rather longer) is "Malcolm Gin". When I correspond with subcontinental Indians who don't know me well personally, it seems like there is a 50/50 chance that they'll address e-mails to me as "Gin,".

My first theory was that "Gin" was a common first name in India, but that doesn't seem to be the case.

For further context, our company e-mail directory uses the format, "Last Name, First Name" for our e-mail client, and my email address is "mgin@companyname.com".

Is "Malcolm" a common surname in India?

By: aught

aught — Thu, 09 Oct 2008 05:43:25 -0800

I suspect you're overthinking this, and that it's simply because your last name is much shorter than your first.

By: le morte de bea arthur

le morte de bea arthur — Thu, 09 Oct 2008 05:48:48 -0800

Malcolm is certainly a fairly common english surname - in the UK at least - and probably more common than Gin. Perhaps, in conjunction with that, they think 'Gin' is a diminutive form of a first name.

By: brandman

brandman — Thu, 09 Oct 2008 05:52:10 -0800

This link may provide some insight:

--> TIP 6: Be prepared to use last names until you're told otherwise.

If you're meeting people for the first time, you'll probably want to use last names until you get to know people a little bit better. Don't immediately jump to first names. "In the IT world especially, you may find people switch to first names," explains Dr. Schomer. "But when you first meet them -- especially if they're high status in the company you're meeting with -- use the honorific and their last name."

By: PsuDab93

PsuDab93 — Thu, 09 Oct 2008 05:57:25 -0800

Funny, I've seen this too. Would love to hear a good explanation for it.

I concur with your theory about address lists keeping last name first......that's as good as anything else, because I've asked some of the Indian guys I work with about this and they've told me it's not a cultural thing.

By: kalessin

kalessin — Thu, 09 Oct 2008 05:57:26 -0800

Hey folks, don't miss my second question, which is, "how do I correct folks who do this while being as polite and supportive as possible?"

To provide further context: My company is globalizing, moving into international markets, so it's all of our charters to be as polite and supportive as we can and build as many networks as we can with our co-workers in other countries (I'm in the U.S.). So I may be overthinking, but I sort of have to, as it's one of my Expected Business Results and will be part of my yearly review from now on.

By: Help, I can't stop talking!

Help, I can't stop talking! — Thu, 09 Oct 2008 06:08:25 -0800

I've seen a lot of international companies use all capitals for the surname. You might want to start signing your letters "Malcolm GIN" to see if it conveys the message. Conversely, you could start with the redundant "This is Malcolm" when replying to coworkers who have already made the mistake.

By: brandman

brandman — Thu, 09 Oct 2008 06:09:33 -0800

Oops, totally breezed by your second question....I would just be direct, in a friendly way - "oh, and feel free to call me Malcolm, that's what I go by." Something like that, at the end of an email or a phone call. If there is a cultural element to this (which there may not be, according to PsuDab93's comment), they may be waiting for implicit or explicit approval on your part to use your first name.

By: kalessin

kalessin — Thu, 09 Oct 2008 06:27:46 -0800

So maybe it would be a good idea to suggest training also for my Indian co-workers vis a vis cultural assumptions and names for U.S. co-workers... as well as incorporating good suggestions here in this thread for me and my U.S. co-workers.

By: blue mustard

blue mustard — Thu, 09 Oct 2008 06:29:35 -0800

Interesting. I have the opposite "problem": Indians here frequently refer to me as Mr. Malcolm (except replace Malcolm with my first name). I've never really understood why. Like "Malcolm", my first name is a common first name, while also a somewhat common surname. My surname, on the other hand, is a very uncommon first name. Still, I don't bother correcting anyone as it doesn't offend me, and the mix-up has not had any consequences. I've found that once I work with someone long enough, they usually switch to calling me by my first name, probably because that's how I sign my emails and answer my phone.

By: Saucy Intruder

Saucy Intruder — Thu, 09 Oct 2008 06:33:23 -0800

Capitalizing your surname works well, especially in East Asia. Most people know that in Chinese the last name is printed before the first, but e-mail headers, spreadsheets, etc. can inject a lot of confusion.

By: Lleyam

Lleyam — Thu, 09 Oct 2008 06:33:41 -0800

Contrary to the earlier opinion, I think this might be a cultural thing. I get this a lot from Indian colleagues and, indeed, I've noticed that many of them go by their last name or a diminutive of their last name.

Just a thought, with regard correcting them, do you need to? I've decided to just let it go; I still sign myself and answer the phone using my name. Some colleagues catch on, others not, but it isn't a big deal.

By: kaydo

kaydo — Thu, 09 Oct 2008 06:39:12 -0800

Have you ever gotten their names wrong? Can you easily tell which of their names is the first and last?

I think this happens all the time, or at least it does in ultra-multicultural Australia as it was the recent topic of office conversation. Also, what if your name could go either way (e.g. two surname sounds like Harrison Ford). Do you ever go by a shortened version of your first name like Mal? Telling people stuff like that in correspondence may be an easy way to reinforce your actual name.

Anyway, I think the CAPS surname is a good idea in email signatures. You can also prefix your formal signature with your name, like:

Regards,
Malcolm

Malcolm GIN
Somerole at Somecompany

By: kalessin

kalessin — Thu, 09 Oct 2008 06:50:10 -0800

@kaydo, good points, and I don't know whether I have gotten their names right or wrong. For vendors it doesn't matter as much as it does for co-workers, but my aim is to have mutual understanding between all involved cultures, so a mixture of social engineering, a good sense of cultural expectations and some sort of orientation at both ends might be the best mixture.

By: vilcxjo_BLANKA

vilcxjo_BLANKA — Thu, 09 Oct 2008 07:08:22 -0800

In esperantio, where esperanto is spoken, people are from many different cultures and countries. Some put the given name first, and the family name last, others do it the other way round. We generally use capitalization to tell people which is which. So, I am Vilĉjo BLANKA, whereas someone else might be FANG Chun.

By: peacheater

peacheater — Thu, 09 Oct 2008 07:35:50 -0800

The rules in India for what constitutes a last name and a first name are a lot more fluid since before British colonization people had never heard of the concept. Are these Indians who address you as Gin South Indian? Because I come from South India and here the family name often comes before your personal name so that is the natural order for many people. Chances are you might be offending people over there as well by calling them by their family names. But really the major reason you're having trouble is there is no one rule for which name(s) constitute your family name and which name(s) yours personal name. Many people have really long names with 8 or 9 different words comprising it especially in the South Indian state of Andhra Pradesh (that's where Hyderabad is) or Tamil Nadu (that's where Chennai/Madras is). To make things more confusing most North Indians follow the Western format for names. In such a situation it's perfectly acceptable to point out that your family name is Gin and to please call you Malcolm. The other thing is that Indians often have certain clues about other Indian names as to what constitutes a acceptable first name and that information is not there for your name. Malcolm could well be a common surname -- Christian communities in India (I'm half Christian) often have last names that are common first names for Christians in the West especially because they often follow Indian naming traditions of giving the father's first name to the children as a last name. So please, just tell them.

By: sutel

sutel — Thu, 09 Oct 2008 07:46:18 -0800

So I have a last name that is also a common first name, let's say it's Jane Sally. I get called "Sally" constantly - the doctor's office, when I was in school, etc. My work emails are from jsally@company.com but in a "Sally, Jane" way. If it's in person, I usually just smile and say, "My first name is Jane. Sally is my last name." If it's over email, I usually say at the end, "Oh, and just so you know, my first name is Jane. Thanks, Jane." I always try to be as polite as possible because even though this is the millionth time I've had to correct someone, they don't know that.

However, it isn't always as effective as I would like. At a former place of employment, one of my managers would still call me "Sally" even though I would correct him (politely) all the time.

So, cultural or whatever, I don't see anything wrong with a quick, "Hey, just so you know, my first name is Malcolm, so you can address me as that."

By: Xianny

Xianny — Thu, 09 Oct 2008 09:30:08 -0800

seconding kaydo.

By: ThePinkSuperhero

ThePinkSuperhero — Thu, 09 Oct 2008 11:46:57 -0800

Gin looks more like an Indian first name than Malcom. Easy error.

By: MadamM

MadamM — Thu, 09 Oct 2008 12:50:37 -0800

Perhaps they are hesitant to call you just by your first name, as that might be seen as being overly informal? So LastName sans Mr. is a good compromise?

Incidentally, for some reason I feel like this is something more common in the UK than in the US. My British cousins seemed, as I recall from visits, to be referred to as "Bruce" or "Brucie" (their last name) pretty often by their friends. Could this be a cultural transference thing? Most Indians seem to learn a fairly British English.

Another place this is common is sports. Primarily from coaches referring to players. I doubt that usage connects to this in any way, though :).

By: thinkingwoman

thinkingwoman — Thu, 09 Oct 2008 17:24:48 -0800

you can just say, "oh, feel free to call me malcolm--that's what all my colleagues here call me. do you prefer firstname or lastname?"