Comments on: introducing a tween to the buffyverse

Question: introducing a tween to the buffyverse

thinkingwoman — Mon, 06 Oct 2008 16:31:19 -0800

is "buffy the vampire slayer" an appropriate gift for a 13-year-old girl?

i have a young cousin who will be celebrating her bat mitzvah next year. she's very athletic and creative, and i would love to encourage that "girl power" ethos in her life, especially since she lost her mother to cancer last year.

"buffy" definitely has all the elements that i'm looking for, but i don't have kids, so i'd like to poll the hive mind before making some terrible error in judgment. i know it has some sex and lots of violence, but compared to what's out there now, it seems kind of cartoony and mythic.

fwiw, i was thinking i would just give her the first two or three seasons--if she gets into it, she'll be motivated enough to earn the money to buy the rest. :)

By: COD

COD — Mon, 06 Oct 2008 16:43:38 -0800

I think you should ask the parent. Explain it exactly like you explained it above, and let them tell you if they think it's appropriate. Personally, it wouldn't bother me (I have a 12 and 14 year old) but you aren't offering to buy it for my kids :)

Actually, I think I'll add season 1 to Netflix and re-watch it, with them.

By: Clyde Mnestra

Clyde Mnestra — Mon, 06 Oct 2008 16:43:54 -0800

Here's the thing: in season 5 or so, doesn't Buffy's mother die?

By: thinkingwoman

thinkingwoman — Mon, 06 Oct 2008 16:49:12 -0800

yeah, that's why i was just thinking the first few seasons.

By: bcwinters

bcwinters — Mon, 06 Oct 2008 16:51:23 -0800

The key theme of the second season is the loss of Buffy's virginity. Is that a little mature for a 13 year old girl these days? I think the way it presents it is brilliant, though, and it's a smart show in general, really digging into themes of maturity, womanhood, mentorship, and self-awareness.

I think a 13 year old would get sucked in by the campiness and fun in the first season and then really grow in maturity along with the next few seasons. I think it would be slightly inappropriate but in a "thinkingwoman, you are the COOLEST AUNT EVER" way. Could you get her the first season and then maybe dole out the rest as she heads more towards 14?

(Man, when Buffy's mom died...daaaaaamn. That was some good TV.)

By: escabeche

escabeche — Mon, 06 Oct 2008 17:01:46 -0800

I think it would be inappropriate for a 13-year-old girl not to have seen Buffy The Vampire Slayer.

By: desuetude

desuetude — Mon, 06 Oct 2008 17:04:39 -0800

It sure does depend on the the girl and her parents -- thinking of my pseudo-nieces, my hypothetical responses range from "hell yeah!" to "absofuckinlutely not."

By: Solon and Thanks

Solon and Thanks — Mon, 06 Oct 2008 17:19:15 -0800

My friends and I watched it when we were 13-year-old girls, but it depends on the parents. I don't think many parents would have problems with the first season.

By: InsanePenguin

InsanePenguin — Mon, 06 Oct 2008 17:24:34 -0800

Also, don't be dissuaded by the first season if you don't really like it. The first season was definitely not the best. Kudos on being an awesome cousin evar.

By: mewithoutyou

mewithoutyou — Mon, 06 Oct 2008 17:27:23 -0800

I'm with escabeche. For what it's worth, my conservative christian cousin made her daughters wait until they were 13 to start watching Buffy.

By: bcwinters

bcwinters — Mon, 06 Oct 2008 17:34:17 -0800

Ack, sorry I called you an aunt when you're a cousin :)

Sounds like everybody else thinks 13 is A-OK; the only reason I'm squeamish about it is that the scary episodes of Buffy or Doctor Who scare my 12 year old nephew waay too much—every kid is different, but I still foresee him being a little shaky on horror stuff at 13.

By: thinkingwoman

thinkingwoman — Mon, 06 Oct 2008 17:40:08 -0800

it's ok--it's actually my cousin's daughter, and i'm 21 years older than her, so she probably thinks of me as an auntie. :)

so maybe i'll give her seasons one and two and tell her that if she gets into it, i'm good for the remaining five--one a year, on her birthday.

By: twiki

twiki — Mon, 06 Oct 2008 18:02:46 -0800

My stepdaughter is 13 and we decided this year she's old enough to learn the way of the Slayer. We're having a blast re-watching it with her. And frankly, I find it less horrifying than some of the other things she watches - like CSI, or many other late night TV shows. The show handled everything tastefully, with no overt gore or nudity - more than I can say for a lot of stuff on prime time now!

By: docmccoy

docmccoy — Mon, 06 Oct 2008 18:32:17 -0800

it just depends on your values. by todays standards buffy is pretty mellow. i wouldn't put anywhere near the disney range, like twiki said, there's worse things she could be watching.

By: wuzandfuzz

wuzandfuzz — Mon, 06 Oct 2008 19:20:48 -0800

I started watching Buffy with my parents when I was 13. Sure, it has some mature themes, but Gossip Girl and the like are waaaaaaaaay worse. And if you think about it, she loses her virginity and the guy literally turns into a monster...

Really though, I think you couldn't go wrong with clearing it with her parents first, but I would definitely say that I suffered no adverse effects from early Buffy exposure, except perhaps a penchant for TV shows about ass-kicking women (whether the show be objectively good or not.)

By: damnjezebel

damnjezebel — Mon, 06 Oct 2008 19:32:59 -0800

It would actually work out. What's the penalty for Buffy losing her virginity? Her bf turns into a demonic thing and tries to kill her and her friends. Lesson learned? WE DONT LOSE OUR VIRGINITY. PERIOD.

All kidding aside, I'd get her the first couple of seasons. She may absolutely hate it. The first time I saw it, I didn't like it at all. It wasn't until about 5 years later that I got into it really hardcore.

By: ikkyu2

ikkyu2 — Mon, 06 Oct 2008 19:36:38 -0800

It's fine. It's also hugely enjoyable, so I think it'd make a great gift.

By: WCityMike

WCityMike — Mon, 06 Oct 2008 20:09:50 -0800

(She's your first cousin once removed.)

I don't know, I don't think this is the way to go, if only because if you only give her the first couple seasons, and she gets into it, she is going to eventually — and sooner rather than later — get to "The Body" and that is going to be an awful, awful moment for her — it is an incredibly raw and deeply tragic episode even for people who haven't lost their mother to a painful illness. And her mother, you may remember, dies from a tumor.

If you're looking to introduce her to girl power, there are other Whedon creations that could well do the trick, such as Zoe from "Firefly" — Wash even says how much he loves being husband to a "warrior woman." Or do a separate Ask Mefi asking for movie recommendations for tween-appropriate films with strong female "girl power" protagonists. You'll get a lot back, I feel fairly confident in saying.

Seriously, unless you're looking to fuck up this kid something awful, because of the specific way that Buffy's mom dies and how utterly tragically it's portrayed, you should not introduce her to the Buffyverse.

It's odd for me to counsel this, given that in nearly any other circumstance I'd be raving about how good it would be to introduce a kid to the Buffyverse and what good role models they are and how this was a great idea.

By: bricoleur

bricoleur — Mon, 06 Oct 2008 20:19:20 -0800

Buffy is (was *sniff*) one of the few things on TV that teaches an acceptable ethos, IMO. Look out for your friends at all costs, kill things but only things that hurt other things for no good reason, etc., etc. And my recollection is that every sexual encounter is imbued with respect and consequences, so I don't think it goes wrong there either.

By: rokusan

rokusan — Mon, 06 Oct 2008 20:39:17 -0800

The key theme of the second season is the loss of Buffy's virginity. Is that a little mature for a 13 year old girl these days?

Um, no, not at all? That's a pretty hot topic from the age of what, 10 on?

Sounds fine to me for a 13yo, and a good choice, too, re girl power etc.

By: Vaike

Vaike — Mon, 06 Oct 2008 20:41:14 -0800

I think it is a great idea. Wonderfully empowering.

And when you get to the season with Buffy's mother dying, warn her, and then use the episode to allow her to talk about her own feelings of her own mother's death.

Too often we pretend death never happened. I think it will be a good opportunity for her to check in with herself, see what issues have come up for her, talk about it and help with further closure.

By: equalpants

equalpants — Mon, 06 Oct 2008 21:22:04 -0800

13 is old enough to watch anything. Buffy is perfectly fine.

By: peagood

peagood — Mon, 06 Oct 2008 22:11:31 -0800

Websites like Common Sense Media will often list specific information about content, that might help with the decision. In Buffy's case, the information given:

Sexual Content: Sixteen-year-old Buffy has sex with her vampire boyfriend, who is considerably older. Many romances among the teen characters, including a lesbian relationship. The vampire myth is traditionally a very sexualized one.

Violence: Cartoonish action violence, including stabbing vampires with stakes, fighting sequences, and a scene in which Buffy is attacked by a severed arm.

Language: Ocassional mild cursing -- "hell," "damn," etc.

Social Behavior: Gender roles are progressive, and everyone works as a team to support a female hero.

****

Whether or not they're always perfectly accurate, I sometimes use sites like the above-mentioned, and Kids in Mind and Screen It in order to get an idea of what my four-year old might be watching - or maybe shouldn't be yet. It's why I thought (knowing her) that Labyrinth was okay but Spirt: Stallion of the Cimarron's is probably not. So, while I'd think that it's probably okay, it's still up to the parent. And I agree with bcwinters - timing is everything.

I

By: opsin

opsin — Tue, 07 Oct 2008 02:58:36 -0800

WCityMike - Surely you can't expect that advice to be good, unless you know you have some personal issues with the way the character dies. I mean, yes, it's a very moving, almost tortuous episode, but that's not to say there isn't a lot that one can learn from it.
You think it's better to say, not see this episode as, possibly, one of your first experiences of death, and then have to deal with a family member dying later on, with no experiences to fall back on?

I'd definitely go with your plan, thinkingwoman, to get the first couple and go from there. Season 1 isn't enough to judge on alone, and as people have said, seasons 5 and 6 start to deal with... (mostly) ambiguously aggressive sex shall we say.

Other things worth a look might be some of Joss's comic book writing - Fray for instance.

By: the latin mouse

the latin mouse — Tue, 07 Oct 2008 03:38:53 -0800

@Opsin - Read the question again. They're not saying that parental death is inappropriate for a thirteen year old. (Dead or absent parents are a staple of works aimed at children.) They're saying that for this kid, the death of a mother by cancer might be too soon.

Having clarified that, I disagree. There are like a hundred hours of viewing before she gets to the episode where Joyce dies and there's no guarantee that she will get hooked on the show and seek out subsequent seasons. (It's hard to sell teens on the 'cool factor' of shows where the slang and fashions were last current when they were three years old.)

I say, get her Season One of Buffy and a copy of The Action Heroine's Handbook or something. This way...

1. The implied compliment (that you think she's a strong person) is more explicit.

2. If she doesn't like the show, she still has the book. I

3. If she does like the show you don't have to put any thought into her birthday gifts for the next 10 years. ;-)

By: ninebelow

ninebelow — Tue, 07 Oct 2008 04:34:49 -0800

Age-wise it is absolutely fine - they used to show it at 6pm in the UK - and I agree with others who think it would be a good present.

However, I would only get the first season rather than the first couple. It is showing its age now in terms of production values, it is a bit dated and she may well not get into it. It would be a shame if she felt burdened to plow through it for you.

As for the issue Joyce's death, well, I don't see how you could shield her from all depictions of death or even why that would be desirable. She knows people die and she knows it is painful and art should depict life.

By: Mavri

Mavri — Tue, 07 Oct 2008 08:04:36 -0800

I found the episode where Joyce dies incredibly cathartic after two tragic deaths in my family. Of course, I wasn't a 13 year old girl. But, as others have pointed out, it will be a long time before she gets there, if she gets there at all. I think the Buff is great for a teenage girl.

By: Xany

Xany — Tue, 07 Oct 2008 08:24:47 -0800

I started watching Buffy when I was 13, possibly 12. She'll love it.

By: WCityMike

WCityMike — Tue, 07 Oct 2008 09:06:12 -0800

> You think it's better to say, not see this episode as, possibly, one of your first experiences of death, and then have to deal with a family member dying later on, with no experiences to fall back on?

Xx'x xx X xxxxxx: Xxxxx Xxxxx-xxxxx xxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxx xx xxxxxxxx xxx xxxxxx. You're going to have to rephrase this for me, 'cause I have no idea what you meant to say.

By: opsin

opsin — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 08:49:28 -0800

@Opsin - Read the question again.

Doh. Apologies, my brain doesn't work at the moment, apparently.

And with that in mind, I wouldn't bother trying to work out what I was saying WCityMike.

By: desuetude

desuetude — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 09:18:25 -0800

I can translate, ospin. You were disagreeing with WCityMike's suggestion that introducing the girl into Buffy is setting her up for a story that is going to hit so close to home as to be cruel. You were advocating that such a moving, realistic portrayal of grief could instead be cathartic.

However, you strayed from the situation of the girl in question (who has already experienced her mother's death) into the more hypothetical idea that shielding younger people from "difficult" TV deprives them of a chance to experience tragedy in the safer space of fiction prior to getting hit between the eyes with it...as we all inevitably do.