mold in basement remodel -- what now?

September 8, 2008 8:36 PM

I've put an offer on a 1924 house that has a refinished basement. The remodel was done by the homeowners, with no permits. My inspector found some mold on some wood and drywall. What now?

This house is in Portland, Oregon where it rains non-stop during the winter. Most basements here have some water seepage. The current owners refinished the basement themselves either in 2005 or 2006 (I'll get confirmation of this), so it's been through at least one winter here, but not lots of them.
There was an area by a door jamb, where my inspector could look in and see the non-pressure-treated wood (which is apparently a no-no itself) and drywall had some mold on it from water.
So, what do we do now? We will obviously let the current homeowners know about this. My realtor thinks they should just get the work permitted. My concerns are:
- If there's already visible mold, what is behind the walls that we can't see/can't get to? Will we just need to rip all of this remodel down in 5-10 years because it'll be rotted away or totally mold-infested?
- My partner says he's allergic to some kinds of mold, but we don't know if it's this kind. I know mold is supposed to be "BAD BAD BAD!" but really, how bad? Don't most old houses have some kind of mold, somewhere?
- If we ask the homeowners to permit the basement and the county says it's not to code, then what?

Are we getting in over our heads on this? Is it a long-term problem with no real solution?

posted by j to home & garden (11 comments total)

Ask your inspector and get two or three opinions. Your realtor will probably know some people.
posted by xammerboy at 8:48 PM on September 8, 2008

I am a Realtor, I am not your Realtor.

Your Realtor should not be giving advice on these issues, as it is outside of his or her area of expertise. Your Realtor should have immediately referred you to a qualified mold inspector to take a look at the home. Only then will you have an understanding of what might be involved in correcting the problem.

As you stated, not all mold is the "scary mold" that people panic about (and rightfully so). Your best bet is to get a mold inspection, and then possibly an estimate from a contractor or two to fix the problem areas. You then either ask for these issues to be resolved before you continue closing on the home, or you ask for $XXXX off the sale price of the home so you can do it after closing. This is how your Realtor should be negotiating the situation, especially if it is a buyer's market like most of the country right now. Not to second guess your Realtor, but they should be aggressively negotiating for all of your interests in this deal. Unfortunately, too many real estate agents take the path of least resistance so that the home sells and both sides get their commission.

You should also find out from the building department what is involved in getting permits for a remodel done illegally. It may be much more difficult than you think, or it may just be filling out some forms (and possibly the sellers paying a fine).

Finally, with a home approaching 100 years old, you will always have repairs popping up (that applies to 10 year old homes often, as well). You just don't want to start with an additional $10,000 repair bill on top of your monthly mortgage payment.
posted by shinynewnick at 8:51 PM on September 8, 2008 [1 favorite]

Just recently saw a TV show where a family had paid to remodel the basement and then had to hire contractors to completely redo the work. One of the big problems is that they didn't have a vapor barrier so outside moisture doesn't wick in through walls and then insulation before you get to the drywall. So I would think you would want to expert to peek behind the walls so you know how badly done it was. (Not using pressure treated lumber suggests that they may have made other mistakes as well.)
posted by metahawk at 9:00 PM on September 8, 2008

Jen, that's a frequent problem here in Portland. Not just the mold issue - the crappy self-done remodel is a big issue as well. Mold is bad stuff, but you could get a quote (guaranteeing mold abatement) built into the price.
Good friends here had a similar circumstance a few years ago - great house, looked wonderful, nice craftsmanship...except for the lack of permits. Oh, and vapor barriers. And a 'take my word for it the ceiling is fine' assurance. (Then a lead singer of an indie band of some renown bought in on one walk through).
There are lots of great houses for sale here - I'd walk away until you find the one you love. It took us about 30 open houses before we found our home. As I walk our dog I see more and more homes for sale by owner, or with price reduced tags. We live in an updated 1892 folk Victorian that has all new plumbing, electrical, insulation, etc., so there are certainly new/old homes to be found. However I would worry about the roof and foundation as well. And hidden oil tanks.
posted by TomSophieIvy at 9:03 PM on September 8, 2008

If you want the house you should factor in the cost of at least tearing out the basement. Unless desperately need the living space, leave unfinished or put in a simple bathroom, laundry area and maybe a sauna. If it's moldy after such a short time, I'll get worse...much worse.

My wife and I go to a lot of open houses in our neighbourhood and have seen a pattern emerge where houses come on the market with a basement renovation thats a year or two old and probably just starting to go sour.

We ignord the state of the basement when we bought our home and it turned into a MAJOR headache
posted by bonobothegreat at 12:05 AM on September 9, 2008

Did you put in an offer before you got the inspector report back? That probably isn't the best idea but see if you can get quotes on the cost of the work and then amend the offer. Hopefully you wrote in the offer that the price was contingent on the inspection passing without problems. If so you can re-write the offer. If there is a problem with mold you want to get it taken care of immediately before you move in, not in "5-10 years".
posted by JJ86 at 6:03 AM on September 9, 2008

Get the sellers to agree to a mold inspection, and $8,000 of mold remediation by a company of YOUR choosing, not theirs. And pick a company that actually knows what they're talking about. A good mold test will probably cost just under $900-800. Anything less will be a waste oftime and money. Over $8k, either party can walk. You Do Not Want A House With A History Of Mold. Let me say that just one more time. YOU DO NOT WANT A HOUSE WITH A HISTORY OF MOLD. No matter if it's the 'naughty' or 'benign' type. You might not have problems, but it WILL be a problem when you try to sell the house.
posted by Geckwoistmeinauto at 8:35 AM on September 9, 2008

Thanks for all the replies.
To address some of the concerns:
- This was found in a full inspection. The oil tank was found by the previous owners and decommissioned. The roof is in okay shape, but will need to be replaced in ~5 years. Foundation has some cracks (as most old ones do), but do not seem to be expanding. The utility chimney needs to come down and the sewer needs to be replaced.
- The inspector's report states:
"The finished areas [in the basement] should be converted back to unfinished areas where expected seepage and moisture can occur without consequence, or the basement/foundation must be properly water proofed to prevent the type of observed moisture issues."
- The offer is contingent upon the inspection. We can revoke the offer at any time, citing the inspection as the reason, during the inspection period (goes until Sept 15th).

Going forward, I spoke with my realtor this morning. She thinks we should test for mold after any repairs/remediation are done. I'm thinking that we should test for mold now as well as after. However, here in Portland, it's been dry as a bone for months now. I don't know if we'll find there's an on-going problem until it's way too late. Her philosophy is that we can ask for things now (while we can still walk away) and figure out what needs to happen to fix this situation. I like her - she's been extremely proactive and I think she has been reasonable, but (as with anyone who stands to make money off of a transaction), I worry that she's trying to make the deal go through (However, she's not trying to push us into accepting the house - she's just trying to see if the situation is salvageable). She says that if we get a building inspector to go through the house, and point out what's not been done to code, then it will have to be fixed to get it permitted (not just a slap on the wrist fine).

To the folks who think we should just walk away (Geckwoistmeinauto, TomSophieIvy) -- I'm sure this is a naive question, but why do I not want a house with a history of mold? If it's been addressed and fixed, what would be the problem? Will it be an insurance problem? A re-sell problem? A health hazard?

We're still considering backing out, but will talk with the sellers about what can be done, if anything, moving forward. Any additional advice or information would be appreciated.

Thanks again to everyone.
posted by j at 11:16 AM on September 9, 2008

Glad to hear your Realtor is looking out for you. I would suggest getting an extension on the inspection period so you can continue to explore your options for the seller fixing the issues. It will take time to get more people to inspect for mold, code violations, and repair estimates. I would tend to agree with you, that a mold test now is in order. There is no way to know what level of repairs need to be done until you know the extent of the damage. It could be pulling up the baseboard and cutting away 1 foot of drywall, or it could be gutting the entire space (especially if it needs to be re-waterproofed).

As for ditching the house because of mold: now that it is a known fact, it must be disclosed to any potential buyer (usually in a Seller's Disclosure Statement). That in and of itself will scare off many buyers, even if it has been remedied. If it is not uncommon for your area, it won't be as much of an issue, but one to consider for resale.
posted by shinynewnick at 2:42 PM on September 9, 2008

J, some thoughts:
how much do you think that roof will cost you within 5 years?
how much will the sewer replacement cost?
how much will the other repairs cost?
I'm in the process of reclaiming our basement to turn it into a creative space (we have 940 sq ft on the top floor for the two of us, four cats and a dog) and can't wait. What are you willing to do to claim this space? $$?
So, I'm a broken record... unless this house makes you weak in the knees, your dream house could be elsewhere. unless you are super handy with deep pockets and unfailing trust in your realtor, the seller and your inspector, I can't help but sense some anxiety about all of this. translation: mold might not be the only issue to worry about. mold can be a crazy problem - most people in Portland say the mold here, much like the so-called progressive attitudes, is milder than other molds to be found. So you've got at least some visible non-treated lumber and a mold issue of unknown origins.
At house 28 or so we looked at there was a puddle in the basement. I asked the renter (who was showing the house for her brother in law) about it, and she said her daughter always backed up the toilet with her toys, so the water ran all over the bathroom floor into the registers and then into the basement. (that was slightly better than our luck in the Foster area - one house with a hole in the roof, another with 2 glad plug in air fresheners in every outlet. reminded me of the gas chamber in basic training.)
So sure you might get the mold issue 'resolved', but then what? Is this the best house you have seen?
posted by TomSophieIvy at 8:27 PM on September 9, 2008

If this is your first home, you need to ask yourself if it's worth the time and effort. If you plan on raising a family in it, then you'll be worrying about he mold every time somebody coughs.

Fixing water leaks can be a real complicated matter. Does the lot slope to the house? Does the neighbor's property slope to the house? Is it feasible to regrade? Do the eavetroughs slope enough? Do nearby trees cause them to get clogged at certain times of year? Are the downspouts large enough to handle all the water from the eavetroughs or do they back up during cloudbursts? Are you sure the sewer pipe isn't rotten all the way out to the main? Is there a large tree that might make it more expensive to replace the sewer out to the street? How's the basement access..will you be able to easily drag renovation waste out to a bin? Is there room for a bin on you property?

That oil tank may be decommissioned but there could be water in it that will eventually rust through and any remaining oil will leak. If there's no good access, it could be difficult to remove.

Basement problems (especially if you have the desire to do the work yourself) can sidetrack your attention from family, career and ongoing renovations can ruin marriages. It has to be fantastic house and you have to feel confident that you have enough money to tackle it all. This is before vacations, kitchen renos, etc.

Your realtor is practiced in the art of appearing to be looking out for you best interests but the reality is that she is working for herself, not you. She has to safeguard her reputation, but she has to sell houses.

This is the best time in the last 10 years to be buying a house and I'd hold out for the perfect place if I were in the market. We looked a more than 30 places back in '97. Keep looking.
posted by bonobothegreat at 2:09 AM on September 11, 2008