"Sorry I lost all of your data..."

August 26, 2008 8:11 AM

I was working on someone's laptop and all of their data has been overwritten. How do I break it to them gently?

They had a funky video problem; initially it seemed that reinstalling the OS would be necessary, and the owner balked at the idea of having to backup / restore data and reinstall apps (which I'd certainly do, for a fee).

The video problem began appearing in safe mode and BIOS, so I was able to get the motherboard replaced using depot repair. I explained that I'd be able to remove "the" hard drive before sending it in, so he wouldn't lose anything.

In my rush to get it sent in quickly at the end of a long day, I removed "the" hard drive but as it turns out, this laptop had two drives and the one I removed was blank, and in no danger...

So yeah, they replaced the motherboard, and wiped / reimaged the primary drive (which really wasn't necessary, !$#*!# but I expected as much).

I consider myself pretty competent and just did a shoddy job here. It sucks big-time; I am very contrite but need to broach the subject gently. I'm thinking I'll ask "so, did you know that your laptop has two hard driveS?" because I'm pretty sure he doesn't. Would've been nice to tell me when I said "I'll remove *the* hard drive for you" but I know it really wasn't hard to miss and I just wasn't thinking about it.

I know he has an external drive but I suspect he hasn't been backing up.

Typically, the geek answer is "you're responsible for your data above all else, and should've backed it up before the laptop left your hands." The video problem didn't make the laptop 100% unusable, so he could've done this (and he was familiar with Safe Mode, and had been using it just fine).

However, I consider myself trustworthy and competent, and imagine myself to be "that person" you entrust your laptop with, knowing they'll carefully back everything up twice before wiping anything out, and maybe even keep your 30GB worth of personal data for awhile (disclosed, of course) or burn it to DVD, saving your rear when you manage to blow it away.

This was a huge mistake, a learning experience for both parties, and I'm dreading the conversation.

I'm pretty sure the odds of recovery are about nonexistent: format, re-image, boom. I don't know how many "motions I should go through" to demonstrate this, whether I should be paying for software that has little to no chance of doing anything, or what sort of liability I should try to accept for causing the problem. I'm certainly not planning to charge for time spent troubleshooting and coordinating the repair.

posted by anonymous to computers & internet (29 comments total)

I would print out the above and silently hand it to them.

But seriously :/ you just have to step up and tell him and see what happens. In my experience, when you have brooded and sweated and had sleepless nights (like I did last night about a work issue), it usually never turns out to be as bad as you think it will.
posted by Frasermoo at 8:23 AM on August 26, 2008

What is your relationship to this person, and did you have a formal contract? I'm not a lawyer but there are some tricky issues involved with accidents like this and you might be liable for damages depending on what you have and will say.
posted by burnmp3s at 8:24 AM on August 26, 2008

The format usually just overwrites the first few gigbyates of the disk. The rest of the disk is left alone. Usually.

Have you tried a recovery program yet? Everything past the wipe area might be retrievable.
posted by damn dirty ape at 8:25 AM on August 26, 2008

With regards to data restoration ...

If the drive was infact reimaged, there is still a chance to get some data back -- but with both of the partition tables destroyed (there is one at the beginning and end typically) and just raw fragmented files its not going to be very much.

With regards to how to break it to him ...

If you presented yourself as a professional and were charging him, then you probably need to be very careful. It sounds like you gave him the impression his data would be safeguarded, and you failed at that. (No backup before sending in for repair, not confirming the data was present on the drive, etc). We all make mistakes -- but if my car repair dude said he put transmission fluid in my motor and blew my motor, it would be his ass on the line. Same here.

If it was a friend type of situation, then you are clearly less liable. I would expect that you should be doing everything possible to help him get the laptop back in working shape, and pray he has some sort of backup.
posted by SirStan at 8:26 AM on August 26, 2008 [1 favorite]

I'm thinking I'll ask "so, did you know that your laptop has two hard driveS?" because I'm pretty sure he doesn't. Would've been nice to tell me when I said "I'll remove *the* hard drive for you" but I know it really wasn't hard to miss and I just wasn't thinking about it.

If your concern is breaking it to him gently, don't do that. That's breaking it to him defensively, and it may not go particularly well.

Tell him that the main hard drive was wiped, and that it was an accident. Apologize for the mistake.

He may be really upset, or he may not be; he may have a back-up, or he may not; he may think you owe him something, or he may not. But all that's secondary to just letting him know flatout, without preemptive justification, that the data is gone, and apologizing for the mistake.

You can lay out the whole sequence of events and whatever data recovery possibilities (or lack thereof) exist, etc, when and if he wants to go into it.
posted by cortex at 8:28 AM on August 26, 2008 [4 favorites]

You're not entirely clear if this is your profession and if it happened as part of your job, apart from mentioning a "fee".

If this happened as part of business, you should probably even pay for a professional data restoration, IMO. If it was a favor to a colleague or friend - well, it depends on your relationship.
posted by uncle harold at 8:31 AM on August 26, 2008

I agree you should explain what happened and apologize. No defensiveness - by your own admission, it's your fault. Expect that this is a BIG deal and that he might be heartbroken and angry. If this happened to me, I would be fighting not to pay one red cent.
posted by agregoli at 8:32 AM on August 26, 2008

Tell him that the main hard drive was wiped, and that it was an accident. Apologize for the mistake.

Again, not a lawyer, but depending on your local laws the apology part may get you into more trouble. It's why, for example, doctors are sometimes told not to apologize in order to avoid malpractice lawsuits.

I agree the apologizing is the right thing to do, but it's possible that you might regret it if it ends up being held against you in court.
posted by burnmp3s at 8:35 AM on August 26, 2008

If I'm understanding your question correctly, you were paid to care for a customer's device, and it was damaged while it was under your care.

The first thing to do is report the problem to the customer. The customer's first concern right now is to begin collecting whatever data assets might be copied elsewhere; If he doesn't have proper backups, this will take a while.

There will probably be screaming. This sucks. But you have to break the news now. The reasons why and the responsibilities are secondary and, regardless of actual blame, will end up being negotiated.
posted by ardgedee at 8:42 AM on August 26, 2008

Rough. Been there (see also my latest question) - so listen. There isn't any easy way to give anyone this information. The way I saw it is that I had to start over - clean slate. All of what *was* - was. All that would be - would start from this moment on. Fresh. And that was karma. And that was how it needed to be. For whatever reason. Clean slate. And I'm still trying to see the wisdom in the ways of the Universe but accept I had to. No other choice. And anger and fuming and getting even - simply didn't ever enter the equation.
posted by watercarrier at 8:47 AM on August 26, 2008

By the way? I had a diary of over 10 years on my HD when it was overwritten. I had poetry, stories and memories that I could never replace. It wasn't the arbitrary letter, game, whatever - there were stuff that came from my soul for 10 years, straight in all kinds of situations and places. Sometimes - the hardest lesson is to just let go and trust. And I really didn't have a choice. I just let it go and accepted. I was curious if I could recreate it - and found I couldn't and let it go again. Forever.
posted by watercarrier at 8:50 AM on August 26, 2008

drivesavers.com

Your or his business / homeowners insurance will cover part of the expense. Nothing says sorry that I lost your data better than "look, I got it back"

Buy acronis trueimage and use it to image every machine before you work on it. You can even bill your customers for this extra service.
posted by mrzarquon at 8:52 AM on August 26, 2008

If you are going to try to recover the info, stop whatever you are doing and don't use the computer again until you are ready to really get into it. As I understand it, anything else you do from now on will be writing to the hard drive, so the more fussing about you do with the computer before you try to recover the info, the more info will be lost for good.

If you are going to try to recover it, you may be better off taking the drive out of the laptop and putting it in an enclosure as a secondary drive, which should prevent the computer using it for things like virtual memory. You could get the laptop back up and running with the second drive that was in it, and take your time to get all of the data off of the original drive without having to hold onto their laptop any longer than needed.
posted by markblasco at 9:48 AM on August 26, 2008

I would highly recommend making a copy of the drive before you do ANYTHING else.

Boot off a live cd.

dd if=/dev/harddrive of=imagefile

(ie, /dev/sda, /dev/hda)
posted by SirStan at 9:55 AM on August 26, 2008

There are open-source options out there, if you dig - can't remember any off-hand, but if those obnoxious recovery demos can find it, it can usually be recovered, especially in cases of text documents. If you can find some reasonably-priced recovery software that it might be handy to own in your line of work, maybe that'd be a good idea. I wouldn't count out the possibility of recovering.

As far as broaching the subject with him, you should be honest. I had a mechanic once who had to tell me the same thing - that he'd made a bit of a mistake because he didn't realize something specific about the car before going to work.

You should say something like:

"Did you know your computer has two hard drives? I'm pretty unhappy about this, but I didn't realize that the second hard drive, the one that had all your data on it, was in there, and it got wiped when I sent it in for repair. Now, the typical IT answer to this is that this is your loss, and that you're obligated to back up your own data. This is ALWAYS a good idea, and I want to encourage you to take every opportunity in the future to back your stuff up on a CD or a spare drive every time you have anybody work on your computer, and routinely even if it's not being worked on. But I tend to want to hold myself to a higher standard, and even though it's something I didn't know about, I wish I'd caught it. So I'm not going to be charging you for this repair, and I'm going to do what I can to recover as much as I can from the disk they wiped - no promises, but I might be able to do something. Again, I'm sorry this happened, and I wish it hadn't."

He should know that with most guys, he'd be hosed, and it'd be 'his fault.' Not with you. You care more than that. That's a good thing. Don't be too self-deprecating; just be straight with him, and talk with him about solving it.
posted by koeselitz at 9:59 AM on August 26, 2008 [2 favorites]

[doubt]Is there any chance that depot repair did what you wish you did -- backed up the customer's drive before reimaging it?[/doubt]

(Reason for doubt: I lost a bunch of files once when I sent in a Sony laptop to have a bad power supply connection fixed. Without contacting me they swapped out all the innards including the hard drive, and sent it back. When I called, astonished, to complain, they told me unapologetically that the original drive had been tossed in a dumpster and that I should have backed up the data before sending it in. "I sent it in because it wouldn't power up, how the #&$* would I back up the data?")
posted by Tubes at 10:09 AM on August 26, 2008

For free undelete/recovery apps you might want to check out this thread at lifehacker.

Install them on a USB drive, not on the drive you are attempting to retrieve from.
posted by damn dirty ape at 10:09 AM on August 26, 2008

Pony up for the recovery software that's showing promising results.

Recover as much as you can to an external hard drive (on your dime).

Present the hard drive with as many recovered files as possible to the owner along with an explanation of what happened. The fact that you're handing him -some- of his recovered files to him at the same time you're telling he has lost other files will mitigate his anger.

Whatever you do, you eat all costs and never ever mention how much you spent.

Touch situation. Good luck.
posted by DWRoelands at 10:31 AM on August 26, 2008 [2 favorites]

Gah. "TOUGH situation".
posted by DWRoelands at 10:32 AM on August 26, 2008

In a really similar situation I ended up testing and eventually buying uneraser. They have a a windows version as well as a dos version that runs off of a bootable floppy so you don't write anything to the drive, which is extremely important. Try the free ver and see if it gives you more than the app you are testing now, and buy the one that gets the most data. Best $50 I ever spent. (No I don't work for them. )
posted by 8dot3 at 11:01 AM on August 26, 2008

Like someone else above said, if you say, "Did you know that you have two harddrives?" you're going to sound defensive and like you're blaming him for something that was still your fault. That will not go over well.

Instead, I think you should say something like, "I screwed up and didn't realize you had two harddrives... I accidentally only removed the secondary one so the primary one got wiped. I'm really, really sorry, I should have noticed."
posted by Nattie at 11:13 AM on August 26, 2008

I'm not sure what you should say, but here's what I would want to hear if I were that guy:

"I'm really sorry. I pulled out your hard drive and I didn't realize there was a second hard drive there - the one that I pulled out was blank and the one that was left in the laptop was the one with your data on it. When I sent it back, the hard drive with your data on it got wiped and reimaged. I'm really hoping you have a recent backup, because I know there were things on there that were important to you. I want to do whatever we can to get whatever data we can back - here's the options."

I don't want to hear that it's my fault for backing up, or that I should have reminded you there's two hard drives. That approach makes me angry and puts us in opposite corners.

I want to hear that you're sorry, you know my stuff was important, and you're going to help me do what we can to fix it. This approach makes me feel better about the situation.
posted by KAS at 12:01 PM on August 26, 2008 [2 favorites]

Oops - I don't want to hear it's my fault for *not* backing up, obviously.

[I don't want to hear it's my fault for not proofreading either...]
posted by KAS at 12:03 PM on August 26, 2008

spinrite...
posted by clueless22 at 1:19 PM on August 26, 2008

If you are contemplating data recovery, shut the drive and machine down and don't run it at all. Let an expert do this. You may lose further data that would otherwise have been recoverable. I agree with the suggestion to send the drive to DriveSavers.

You should be honest and confess your error immediately. He may have a backup, in which case no damage was done. He may not, in which case you need to quit screwing with his drive and send it to Drivesavers. You should also get an idea of how much monetary damage you've done him by your screwup. It may be little; it may be a lot.

Finally, it's very unlikely, but possible, that the company that reimaged the drive backed it up first, for just this kind of situation. Have you contacted them?

I consider myself pretty competent and just did a shoddy job here.

It's not clear whether you consider yourself a professional or not. You have been unprofessional in several ways:

1) You've been charging money for services that you're not competent to do.
2) Your incompetence has caused the loss of someone's data.
3) You've screwed around with a drive that needs to be in the hands of professional data recoverers, possibly losing yet more data, even though at this point you are aware of the situation.
4) You have not immediately disclosed your screwup to the person paying you.
5) You aren't aware of how little you understand about data recovery; in other words, you don't understand the limitations of your own competence.
6) You need more information from your employer to decide how to proceed, and you have proceeded without obtaining that information.
7) You posted this under what's presumably your own name.

You might want to stop for a minute, take a step back and a deep breath, and take a look at what you're doing here. It may be best - for you and your employer - to stop right here and let someone else do the work of saving what they can.
posted by ikkyu2 at 1:56 PM on August 26, 2008 [2 favorites]

KAS: I don't want to hear that it's my fault for backing up, or that I should have reminded you there's two hard drives. That approach makes me angry and puts us in opposite corners.

Pardon me for saying so, but it is the computer owner's fault! People in the IT business get this crap all the time, but it's not their fault for losing data that isn't backed up. No matter what anybody says, every computer user, especially one that owns the necessary hardware (as this one does) has the duty to back up their stuff, especially before bringing it in for repairs.

And, knowing how it works, I can firmly state that that viewpoint is so ubiquitous as to be universal in the industry. Call the company he sent the computer in to to have the BIOS updated - do you think they give a rat's ass that they wiped a perfectly good hard drive for no reason? No. That's standard procedure for them. And if you call them and ask them why, they'll just give you the "back up your stuff more often" lecture. Not only them - if this were almost any other IT guy, they'd be giving the same lecture in this guy's position. Important data should be backed up, and it should be backed up by the guy who thinks it's important. aydeejones didn't do anything wrong here, and it's pretty clear that his sorriness over the whole thing stems from his hemming to a higher standard and from the fact that this is a friend. Most professional geeks in this circumstance wouldn't think twice about whose fault this is, primarily because they hear the "you destroyed my files which I foolishly didn't back up!" nonsense several times a day.

Now, it's not necessary to be an asshole and rub it in - but it is important that aydeejones' feelings and offer of help on this matter are more of a favor and a good-faith gesture than penance for something he did wrong. He should let this person know that most people wouldn't think twice about charging for this kind of thing, even if data has been lost. At the very least, the owner of the computer should have a fair picture of how things work in the real world.

ikkyu2: It's not clear whether you consider yourself a professional or not. You have been unprofessional in several ways... You've been charging money for services that you're not competent to do... You've screwed around with a drive that needs to be in the hands of professional data recoverers, possibly losing yet more data, even though at this point you are aware of the situation... You might want to stop for a minute, take a step back and a deep breath, and take a look at what you're doing here. It may be best - for you and your employer - to stop right here and let someone else do the work of saving what they can.

Yeesh. That's harsh. This isn't surgery- it's hardware repair. There is one, and only one, way in which aydeejones screwed up here- he told the guy he didn't need to back up his data, and that he'd be able to save the contents of the drive. The little "now, you should back up your data, just in case" lecture would have saved his ass.

The fact is that data is lost constantly in hardware repair. This kind of think probably happens every minute now. Do you know how many friends I've had who've become disconsolate after they've sent off their computer to be repaired at some repair place far away, only to have it come back with a freshly wiped hard drive? And every time I tell them the same thing - they should be backing up. It's a lesson people should remember, and keep in mind, when they're so busy blaming the people who fix their computers for them.

Finally, it's very unlikely, but possible, that the company that reimaged the drive backed it up first, for just this kind of situation. Have you contacted them?

They will laugh. LAUGH. And then sigh, and start in on the "you know, you should back up your data" lecture that they probably know by heart. Have you ever tried calling those people?

If you are contemplating data recovery, shut the drive and machine down and don't run it at all. Let an expert do this. You may lose further data that would otherwise have been recoverable.

That's not easy to do. Data recovery programs, on the other hand, usually are pretty easy. I'd never done it before last month, and I recovered most of a bad hard drive. How much do you know about data recovery? And how do you know so much about whether aydeejones is competent or not?
posted by koeselitz at 6:00 PM on August 26, 2008

I guess what I'm saying in my last comment is this:

Fixing hardware for people is like being an auto mechanic. You will make mistakes. Sometimes it will be entirely your fault, sometimes it won't be much your fault at all, just something you could have prevented. This case leans toward the latter. Either way, though, you'll not only have to work hard to prevent mistakes; you'll have to be able to handle the mistakes and problems that do happen. Business demands that you let the person know that this isn't entirely your fault; if you say that it is, not only will you be lying, but you'll be placing the blame entirely on yourself, which is bad business; if you do that, then he'll be more angry at you (human nature is odd that way) and every time anything like this happens, he'll blame it on the person who's fixing his machine, even if it's not their fault! Even so, fair and equitable practice demands that you try to make things right.

It's possible to be clear and confident about this and yet still try to make things right.
posted by koeselitz at 6:05 PM on August 26, 2008

I asked to have this anonymized right as koeselitz posted his charitable comment, which blew my google cover (lulz). I appreciated his defense greatly, as it served to defuse my panicked reaction to ikkyu2's indictment.

I'd like to follow up and state that everything turned out ok; the owner had a data backup and I assisted him with bringing his wiped machine back to its previous state free of charge; so as luck would have it, he got a free F&R with data/app (sans crapware) restoration, and free proxy "argue-with-the-HP-guy-about-an-obvious-hardware-issue" support. This guy had an IT background from a previous life and routinely chats me up on the subject, so that kind of weighed into my whole wishy-washiness about how to tactfully explain the dilemma.

There was never any doubt in my mind that I would honestly explain what had happened; I honestly was Asking for some reassurance and information and found most of the responses fulfilled that desire, and hopefully will serve to reassure and inform other pale-faced, nauseous IT folks as they learn this valuable lesson too. I got off easy but am scared straight.

I certainly wanted to avoid coming across as defensive and this was not a time-sensitive repair, so I sought the advice of MeFi, with all of the attendant risks.

I did understand the concepts of a filesystem sufficiently enough to completely avoid using the drive once I'd realized what had happened (and always use DBAN when donating old corporate boxes along the same lines), but was in panic-mode with respect to the ratio of possible data loss:recovery, and figured yeah, there are probably bazillions of clusters of recoverable data, but it might be a nightmare to re-assemble it properly and who knows how much it'll cost and if he shrugs his shoulders and says "forget it, no big deal" should I shell out the bucks to do whatever is physically possible? I understand it was factually correct to say "all of their data has been overwritten" but I was understandably a little freaked at the time, and was probably exaggerating the severity of the problem before anyone else got the chance to tell me I was screwed.

Heh.
posted by aydeejones at 10:29 PM on December 11, 2008

I understand it was factually correct to say "all of their data has been overwritten" but I was understandably a little freaked at the time


Err, factually incorrect that is.
posted by aydeejones at 11:22 AM on December 12, 2008